The first rule of internet arguments is to never apologize. Why humble yourself to some jerkoff thousands of miles away who could be a fatass 50 year old still living in his mom's basement. It's almost as bad as Obama, president of the United States and most powerful man in the world, bowing to some filthy madarjendeh as arabistan. But I'm not going to go into that.
As far as your desires on # of players per game...use the fucking player limit that's already implemented in D2 and will surely be present in D3. I don't see why your foolish and shortsighted desire to have small groups of players play through the short-lived story should extend to EVERY OTHER GAME ON BNET (99% of which, after one year, will be trade/duel/friend social/mf games, all of which are benefitted by having more players).
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zsfh-maz of UsWest, 95 BvB king
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
Im sorry, then what is the whole 4 player max debate about again?...oh yes. TEAMWORK. Why such a big debate over something that has no place in Diablo? Either 4 or 8 max it does not make a difference if Diablo is not about Teamwork as you say.
No. The player count debate is about how many friends you can play with and how many people can pvp in the same game. Seriously, how many times are you going to run through the acts until you get bored? 10,000? I got bored at about the 10th time through, I guess it takes some people thousands of times that. Playing with friends and pvping made the game fun for 6 years+. Those are the aspects of gameplay that will keep D3 going once pvm has become ancient: socialization and pvp.
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zsfh-maz of UsWest, 95 BvB king
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
In a 4-5 team i could see perhaps one player beeing a barbarian tank, thus, losing him/her would be fatal to the team. But with a 8 player team you could easily have 3 barbs, they would be able to work as a team and share the damage taken in a way 1 barb couln't. Therefor 8 players will be easyer than 4-5, no matter how much you increase the enemies power. Unless the monsters are made so powerful that you HAD to stick together to stand a chance of survival. But then the casters would take to much damage if a random monster attacked them.
DIABLO ISN'T ABOUT TEAMWORK. It isn't about 'tanks' and 'damage dealers' and 'healers' and 'support classes'. Get it through your thick skull. The only teamwork that has ever been (and should ever be) present in diablo is the combined force of self sufficient entities. I shouldn't need a barb to use his "increase fire vulnerability" skill (imaginary) just so that my wizard can do decent damage with a fireball. Synergistic effects between skills of different classes, healing, and anything else requiring a combination of classes to work properly have absolutely no place in diablo.
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zsfh-maz of UsWest, 95 BvB king
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
I think one problem with this discussion is that everyone is bringing up problems that could very easily be isolated issues in Diablo 2. After all, Blizzard made 40 players work in a WoW raid, why couldn't 8 players be fixed up a bit and made to work in Diablo 3?
The only valid issues I see in the conversation so far is the problem of the screen being covered in spell effects, everything else is just a development hurdle that can be overcome if Blizzard puts their minds to it. 2 people are pwning bosses in an 8 player game? Bump up the monster damage and hit points per-player until every party member is necessary. And as far as the spell effects are concerned, I enjoyed seeing the screen filled with skeletons, blizzards, meteors, hydras, frozen orbs, hammers, cyclones, etc... It made me feel like I was part of a truly powerful party capable of taking on the Prime Evils.
In other words, if they include 8 players in Diablo 3 and it still feels wrong, it's not that 8 is a bad player count, it's that Blizzard didn't put enough effort towards attaining perfect scalability.
You win post of the day. Anything blizzard changes, no matter how absurd or unwarranted, these people will invent justifications for.
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zsfh-maz of UsWest, 95 BvB king
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
No one would do raid content unless the rewards were better than solo mf. This would make raid content compulsory for anyone interested in excelling, a la WoW, which goes completely and utterly against the spirit of diablo.
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zsfh-maz of UsWest, 95 BvB king
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
8-player games, for me, where just a pain when everyone was talking. Especially if everyone was talking about different things or not all in the same conversation. That with all the whispers, player join/leave notifications, 80 million hammers and blizzards all flashing around the screen at one time, tons of auras, 50 monsters on the screen, and barrage of sound effects didn't make the game any more fun or "immersive" for me. It just made it a pain to get what I wanted to get done done. It made talking with people a pain. Sure, there's squelching, as I'm sure someone wants to say, but when you have people joining and leaving so fast there's just really no point.
I think 6 would be a good number. Four is too low for me and eight is too high. Six would be my personal preference.
Damn it was too obvious
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zsfh-maz of UsWest, 95 BvB king
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
Who says it would strain your graphics card? That's the stupidest argument ever.
Bottom line is that with 8 people spamming everything they got, you won't see shit. You don't know what you are doing and what you are doing has no purpose.
Nothing that had any meaning in D2 was not played by more than 4-5 people.
Think about it this way: if you want to do a 'full' game on a boss for the maximum loot, you need to host a game and wait for SEVEN people to join. With a four-player limit, once you host a game, you are only three people away from a full game, and all the benefits that brings.
If you can't do the math: playing solo means having a 1/4 penalty, instead of the 1/8 penalty. Alright?
Also. The four player limit was for Blizzcon purposes only. They never said anything about making a decision so early in the development. The only thing they DID say repeatedly, is that the game currently works the best with five people. Five.
This thread makes me cringe on every level.
So you're saying the confirmed four player limit is a good idea. Dude what's wrong with you.
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zsfh-maz of UsWest, 95 BvB king
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
Apparently people missed this post, because this should have ended the thread.
Quote from "chumm121" »
Right let me put it to you this way, and this is a message for the jackass who came up with max 4 players and the jackass who thinks its a good idea...
Number 1 ? now you think of the amount of players (online) who are going to want to join servers. With 4 players max, each game is going to fill up instantly, no question. Joining a game with a buddy will almost be impossible.
Number 2 ? If you just want 4 players, why not just set up the game with a max number of 4 players? Much better option than completly limiting the server capacity.
Number 3 ? This isn?t a first person shooter, most modern day graphics cards will be able to handle the physics and graphic effects, trust me. Im sure blizzards servers are more than capable of holding more than 12 players let alone 4.
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zsfh-maz of UsWest, 95 BvB king
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
i am not sure, but i think Jay Wilson said that this is one of the reasons that there wont be 8 players in a game... I am not sure though.
Maybe he said that it will simply be too much, when 8 players will use their spells and shit, not the whole thing with the graphics but simply the way it will look.
Yes, Jay Wilson, the person who blatantly misrepresents situations to suit his own purposes ("it's impossible to make the light radius work in 3D" = we want to change diablo fundamentally and there isn't jack fucking shit you can do about it).
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zsfh-maz of UsWest, 95 BvB king
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
If you want to pay double (likely triple if you build your own smart) for a bit of fancy paint and Blizzard's arbitrary stamp of approval, you go right ahead. That about sums up this thread.
Why the hell is this still here?
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zsfh-maz of UsWest, 95 BvB king
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
You say that with condescension, as if it's my fault your sentences were poorly constructed and meant nothing as they were originally. I hope you can see how hilarious that is.
Let ME break it down for YOU:
Quote from "Blackwing" »
Having the 4 player cap to me will benefit pvp for the sake of originality
Nothing can “benefit something for the sake of originality”. That literally makes no sense. If your point held any water (which it doesn’t, by the way), you might say that “the 4 player cap will improve pvp by forcing players to adopt new strategies”.
Quote from "Blackwing" »
Also, it will let people customize their method of play to better allocate to even less than the curent amount of players in D2
I cannot understand this sentence. I don’t even know what you were trying to get across. If there was a thought in your mind when you wrote it, that thought was not communicated here. The word “allocate” can’t be used in anything even close to that context.
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zsfh-maz of UsWest, 95 BvB king
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
PvP games need more people because in a four player cap only 3 people will be actually fighting one will be standing in town. talking shit, and stealing gold.
Rofl. So true.
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zsfh-maz of UsWest, 95 BvB king
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
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The first rule of internet arguments is to never apologize. Why humble yourself to some jerkoff thousands of miles away who could be a fatass 50 year old still living in his mom's basement. It's almost as bad as Obama, president of the United States and most powerful man in the world, bowing to some filthy madarjendeh as arabistan. But I'm not going to go into that.
As far as your desires on # of players per game...use the fucking player limit that's already implemented in D2 and will surely be present in D3. I don't see why your foolish and shortsighted desire to have small groups of players play through the short-lived story should extend to EVERY OTHER GAME ON BNET (99% of which, after one year, will be trade/duel/friend social/mf games, all of which are benefitted by having more players).
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
No. The player count debate is about how many friends you can play with and how many people can pvp in the same game. Seriously, how many times are you going to run through the acts until you get bored? 10,000? I got bored at about the 10th time through, I guess it takes some people thousands of times that. Playing with friends and pvping made the game fun for 6 years+. Those are the aspects of gameplay that will keep D3 going once pvm has become ancient: socialization and pvp.
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
DIABLO ISN'T ABOUT TEAMWORK. It isn't about 'tanks' and 'damage dealers' and 'healers' and 'support classes'. Get it through your thick skull. The only teamwork that has ever been (and should ever be) present in diablo is the combined force of self sufficient entities. I shouldn't need a barb to use his "increase fire vulnerability" skill (imaginary) just so that my wizard can do decent damage with a fireball. Synergistic effects between skills of different classes, healing, and anything else requiring a combination of classes to work properly have absolutely no place in diablo.
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
You win post of the day. Anything blizzard changes, no matter how absurd or unwarranted, these people will invent justifications for.
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
Damn it was too obvious
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
So you're saying the confirmed four player limit is a good idea. Dude what's wrong with you.
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
Yes, Jay Wilson, the person who blatantly misrepresents situations to suit his own purposes ("it's impossible to make the light radius work in 3D" = we want to change diablo fundamentally and there isn't jack fucking shit you can do about it).
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
hAHAHAHAHAHAHA
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
Why the hell is this still here?
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
You say that with condescension, as if it's my fault your sentences were poorly constructed and meant nothing as they were originally. I hope you can see how hilarious that is.
Let ME break it down for YOU:
Nothing can “benefit something for the sake of originality”. That literally makes no sense. If your point held any water (which it doesn’t, by the way), you might say that “the 4 player cap will improve pvp by forcing players to adopt new strategies”.
I cannot understand this sentence. I don’t even know what you were trying to get across. If there was a thought in your mind when you wrote it, that thought was not communicated here. The word “allocate” can’t be used in anything even close to that context.
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3
Rofl. So true.
"Because "half-assed" is not a "style"." - DragoonWraith, champion of character customization and legimitate art direction in D3