this perfectly sums up the current situation imho, but is that number is really the limit? after so many hours of theorycrafting, i am very sure that number can be at least 6 for each class if a proper balance is applied. sure there will always be a meta, there will be always one "strongest" build but this isnt a big problem. having 6 builds to be able to clear at least GR 70 will do enough. and with all that diversity im sure there will be exciting multiplayer sessions in every season where creativity of interesting comboes will shine. there wont be some few obvious meta that people know before even a new season. seeing meta shapes slowly in every season, creates an excitement factor.. at least player slike me would be way more excited thats what im sure.
If this was 3 years ago it would be more of a thing. As I stated this game is maintenance mode now, don't expect anything. It took them a long time just to balance LoN and each class sets to somewhat be comparable to each-other... trying to make everything great without causing another ability to over-shine sounds like a big undertaking that a game in its early life cycle would attempt to achieve.
Don't push ladders and there are many builds that can do a 70 grift. Unfortunately this game is all about grift pushing and para points so... eventually your only going to have 1-2 builds that are the "best". That is the issue since you have a never ending scaling of difficulty most builds will fall short. If you had a cap on difficulties then more builds would be viable. I've always suggested make ladders based on a main ability then you would at least see people trying to push different builds, but nobody seemed to care for it.
As for rose tinted glasses approach... If this game was like D2 and you only had hell mode, I guarantee all builds would be viable.
Take it or leave this game will not change drastically anymore its in maintenance mode. If you wanna try other similar games with more builds play PoE or Grim Dawn.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
I thought there will be a reson to return to a game, but now there's none.
Beyond the upcoming DLC that will make people come back for 1 season D3 has done nothing nor can they do anything to bring people back. It's maintenance mode bro, the game is what 5 years old... Jesus people move on. You either play because you enjoy it or you don't. I'm coming back this season because I'm bored of my other games and a few buddies are playing this season.
It's good to see these forums are still the same with the same type of people >_<
So in order to justify an incompetent of today you try to find a worst in the past! ?
I bet the money you spend are not coming from your own pocket them so you don't care that much.
Not sure where your going with this.... D3 WAS a BIG let down. They eventuality "fixed" it with RoS, but the game has a lot of flaws and it has muddled its way to something completely different that what the franchise was based off of.
Apparently getting $0.04 entertainment per hour ($100 / 2500 hours) and having continuous patches for four years is the biggest slap in the face ever? Considering it took 10 years to "develop" this game and people are losing their mind D4 hasn't come out within 4 years of a release of D3 is just pure entitlement. This also isn't a MMO where multiple expansions are added for funz. Each expansion turns all equipment obsolete then you have multiple years of re-balancing all over again. They are actually adding additional content (for a fee of course) where as most games of this genre would have been left to maintenance years ago. Are people mad this doesn't get the attention like WoW does? I'm seriously trying to understand your thinking.
I can assure you I spend my own money to play video games, the fact I played D1 would ball park me at least 25+ years old and I can tell you my parents aren't paying my bills.
I am glad the disappointment of the fan base is so entertaining for you. At least you get something out of the Diablo series. I am not surprised you have fewer hours into D3, You probably spend most of your day trolling forums. Well played sir.
Cheers, it's always good to see the (needy) perspective of millennials, can't wait for you guys to be running the show. My faith in our future has been restored to the levels of Trump in power If you really wanted to admit a true slap in the face how about waiting almost a decade for D3 and being the complete flop it was from vanilla. Get over your self.
I have played diablo since diablo 1 release. I have about 2500 hours played on D3. I am very disappointed in the announcement. It is a slap in the face.
Same situation as me except less hours on D3. It doesn't bother me because they put more into this game then they ever did in any of the other instalments (they also had to because vanilla was crap). Every Diablo game goes into maintenance mode at some point, heck this game almost made it 5 years before that point, but now they are adding DLC... cry much?
Then again could be trolling... or sarcasm? I dunno, all these salty tears of late are delicious though.
My poop was a bit more solid then normal today... so yah I could see how that might lead some to believe it as evidence that something in the future might happen!!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
Well that's the argument though, isn't it? Do you build a brand new game from the ground up, which will take years upon years with all new art and assets, or do you fix what is essentially a working game?
I'd like to rather see a fix to the current D3. Unless they go into an MMO or other type of genre with Diablo, there's no reason to start over again.
I'm happy where this game has gone since vanilla, but in its current state this game isn't fun playing for more than a week. Addressing some of the core issues of the game would cause a long overhaul of re-balancing, it took them a few seasons just to somewhat balance LoN and basically all it did was create massive power creep.
There is a simple life-cycle of a game, the longer it is played, the quicker I get bored of it when I come back to it. If they re-hauled the game I'd be happy, but would likely just stop playing again after a couple of months. I rather have something new and shiny to eventually get burnt out on. for example I played wow a fair bit, but in the end I was playing the "same game" with new content that dumbed down all theory crafting and uniqueness. It eventually got to the point I bought and expansion and quit after two months because I seen most of the content and grinding the same game play I've done for years just gets stale. I haven't gone back in years and refuse to do so unless its F2P (which will never happen).
The reason I made my two suggestions is it would be very easy and rejuvenate the D3 community somewhat. All D2 had was player damage reduction and it was policed and run by the community. It kept D2 going a lot longer than seasons did and it made other pieces of loot more intriguing. far as my suggestion for ladders, seeing the same old cookie cutter builds gets old. I know my suggestion would lead to the same situation, but wouldn't it be fun seeing a WD toad build and how far you could push it and get recognised?
I enjoyed D3 and definitely got my entertainment value. I expect this game to go maintenance mode two seasons ago and now it just finally went maintenance. I've since switched to a few other games and are enjoying those thoroughly. When D3 finally gets some updates I'll be like most others probably play for awhile again before burning out. It's the nature of this series, it doesn't cost you to leave the game, you can always come back and enjoy any additional features.
TL;DR
It's been a good ride. Waiting for the new shiny, until then I'll enjoy Grim Dawn for my Diablo needs.
A new franchise or D4. Fixing D3 would be more work than starting fresh.
Only comment I can offer is add PvP with player damage reduction by 95% and add ladders based on specific abilities not classes (would see more variety of builds trying to push their limit).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
I think this class release is the best case hope for this game. It periodically adds revenue and maintains a player base without massive resources. Fixing D3 to what everyone would have hoped for is long gone. The expansion fixed a lot, but grifts, paragon, and one day character building killed this game.
Start with a clean slate and work on D4 with some solid foundation and concepts, but its going to be on the back drop with all the other titles running right now.
Once I came to the conclusion that the only way to progress in D3 was to skip monsters in a game that is all about killing monsters (and loot)... it was the last straw. Plvl farming and Season 5 introducing a retarded amount of power creep added to a good reason to leave.
If they reworked Plvls and changed ladders to based on main skill and not classes I'd consider going back. The great thing is leaving made me found Grim Dawn and I foresee 5 fold the amount of hours I put into D3 (roughly 1400 hours).
This isn't a bad game, nor will it ever be dead. I'm just done with it due to grift mechanics (Diablo used to be about killing monsters)
Amen to that... He tries to present " valid " arguments , but math and the clear numbers in the leaderboards will win any theory or argument he comes up with.
Speaking of a new content and new set bonuses and skill changes all around and so many classes combined and getting almost the same result in the leaderboard from the first season is more than I personally expected from blizz so I will give them a big plus on that.
The fact that some classes are easier to play, others perform better with certain items, other perform better with less items... is expecting simply too much from the first season.
I guarantee you any range class will be easier to play than a melee class, but on the other hand you can't make the melee classes invincible ( even if you can atm, I can play barb,monk and crus support, good luck tanking with WD.Wizz and DH)
So then the questions remain:
What would you do instead ? You realize that buffing in one side might unbalance the game even more ? You realize blizz don't have an army of developers to do our bidding every time? Do you remember the wall of text with buffs and changes in 2.1 ? Can you imagine the amount of testing and work needed to make all those changes and not literally throw this game to the trashcan ?
I'm quite happy with what they did, considering pre 2.1 the game was ...below terrible end game, mechanic-wise, balance-wise ( Now ofc WD players would say I'm wrong... but that's just super selfish thinking ).
I play barb... I was forced to play DH,WD,Crus and wizz to have some fun too. Right now, barbs are beyond garbage on HC.
Doing this ( Barb is still my fav class) I discovered the other classes and got to have a ton of fun with them. Of course I want my barb to be viable like the other classes, and I'm sure eventually they will be ( I hope). But speaking on behalf of the community is a bit too much... It's just an opinion and there will always be a group of unsatisfied people no matter how good the game will be.
P.S.: I'm not bashing anyone here, I complained like a little girl in the 2.1 PTR feedback sections every day to get my class and spec buffed ( literally posted like a shamless retard) and I tried and succeeded to gather a group of unsatisfied people on my subject and we got what we wanted in the end. So I hope the changes you want ( and rest assured I want them too) will come as soon as possible, but we can't all be end of the world prophets about it, the game quality is a million times better than pre 2.1.
/thread
The D2 days really seem forgotten, but then again history repeats it's self. WD is my main btw, I might have to play one of my other 70's oh noes!!!
EDIT: Seriously every blizzard game has patches and some builds or classes always have a slight advantage over another, it promotes having multiple characters. It's funny how people seem to forget this every single patch. As for bugs, I can't comment much on this as these are free patches for a game with likely a small staff that doesn't bring in any revenue. I really can't complain compared to all these DLC and subscription based games in which I'd expect much more from. I'm also not a programmer and have no idea if this shit is complected, if its such a simple solution then go to blizzard and offer your personal time to fix such easy trivial matters that will not create any other problems.
TL;DR
Free content makes me happy for the 1500+ hours I've put into $100 of a game.
ahh, good to see bunch of butt hurt still happens here
D2 was easy to gear up, min/maxing was near impossible. Same thing in D3. People who complain about it should take longer, just wait in 5-10 years when you start living real lives outside your parents basement, you won't have time for these things anymore. If you want to be an elitist epeen and have 16 hours to play video games all day everyday (ahh the good old days) go play hardcore and ladder and top the charts with mindless farming and grinding. That's where your claim to fame is.
Every patch and expansion in any Diablo game or Blizzard game for that matter has nerfed and made every single aspect of content easier. Why does this still surprise people? SC content is trivial, D2 by 1.09 was so easy to get anything you needed it was a complete joke. It starts happening in this game and people seem to lose their minds, forgetting what the older Diablo's were like (or claiming).
FYI Baal dropped shit most of the time and he was a pretty shitty way to farm upgrades imo.
TL;DR
RoRG is a stupid item and Blizzard screwed them selves over on handling the item and obtaining it. People who been playing since D1 are generally casuals now, the new generation can stroke their epeen being the first paragon 1000+ in ladder. There is a difference between gearing up and min/max and a lot of people don't understand that.
BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTHHURRRRRRRRRRRRRTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT FTW I LOVES THE INTERNETZ.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing Diablo since 97. I know nothing and having nothing good to say, I be a troll.
After doing 500+ A1 bounties and still no RoRG I can say that I'm VERY happy with this change!!! I gave up on bounties because farming for this ring made me hate the game, I took a couple months off because of it.
If this was 3 years ago it would be more of a thing. As I stated this game is maintenance mode now, don't expect anything. It took them a long time just to balance LoN and each class sets to somewhat be comparable to each-other... trying to make everything great without causing another ability to over-shine sounds like a big undertaking that a game in its early life cycle would attempt to achieve.
Don't push ladders and there are many builds that can do a 70 grift. Unfortunately this game is all about grift pushing and para points so... eventually your only going to have 1-2 builds that are the "best". That is the issue since you have a never ending scaling of difficulty most builds will fall short. If you had a cap on difficulties then more builds would be viable. I've always suggested make ladders based on a main ability then you would at least see people trying to push different builds, but nobody seemed to care for it.
As for rose tinted glasses approach... If this game was like D2 and you only had hell mode, I guarantee all builds would be viable.
Take it or leave this game will not change drastically anymore its in maintenance mode. If you wanna try other similar games with more builds play PoE or Grim Dawn.
Beyond the upcoming DLC that will make people come back for 1 season D3 has done nothing nor can they do anything to bring people back. It's maintenance mode bro, the game is what 5 years old... Jesus people move on. You either play because you enjoy it or you don't. I'm coming back this season because I'm bored of my other games and a few buddies are playing this season.
It's good to see these forums are still the same with the same type of people >_<
Not sure where your going with this.... D3 WAS a BIG let down. They eventuality "fixed" it with RoS, but the game has a lot of flaws and it has muddled its way to something completely different that what the franchise was based off of.
Apparently getting $0.04 entertainment per hour ($100 / 2500 hours) and having continuous patches for four years is the biggest slap in the face ever? Considering it took 10 years to "develop" this game and people are losing their mind D4 hasn't come out within 4 years of a release of D3 is just pure entitlement. This also isn't a MMO where multiple expansions are added for funz. Each expansion turns all equipment obsolete then you have multiple years of re-balancing all over again. They are actually adding additional content (for a fee of course) where as most games of this genre would have been left to maintenance years ago. Are people mad this doesn't get the attention like WoW does? I'm seriously trying to understand your thinking.
I can assure you I spend my own money to play video games, the fact I played D1 would ball park me at least 25+ years old and I can tell you my parents aren't paying my bills.
Cheers, it's always good to see the (needy) perspective of millennials, can't wait for you guys to be running the show. My faith in our future has been restored to the levels of Trump in power
If you really wanted to admit a true slap in the face how about waiting almost a decade for D3 and being the complete flop it was from vanilla. Get over your self.
Same situation as me except less hours on D3. It doesn't bother me because they put more into this game then they ever did in any of the other instalments (they also had to because vanilla was crap). Every Diablo game goes into maintenance mode at some point, heck this game almost made it 5 years before that point, but now they are adding DLC... cry much?
Then again could be trolling... or sarcasm? I dunno, all these salty tears of late are delicious though.
My poop was a bit more solid then normal today... so yah I could see how that might lead some to believe it as evidence that something in the future might happen!!
I'm happy where this game has gone since vanilla, but in its current state this game isn't fun playing for more than a week. Addressing some of the core issues of the game would cause a long overhaul of re-balancing, it took them a few seasons just to somewhat balance LoN and basically all it did was create massive power creep.
There is a simple life-cycle of a game, the longer it is played, the quicker I get bored of it when I come back to it. If they re-hauled the game I'd be happy, but would likely just stop playing again after a couple of months. I rather have something new and shiny to eventually get burnt out on. for example I played wow a fair bit, but in the end I was playing the "same game" with new content that dumbed down all theory crafting and uniqueness. It eventually got to the point I bought and expansion and quit after two months because I seen most of the content and grinding the same game play I've done for years just gets stale. I haven't gone back in years and refuse to do so unless its F2P (which will never happen).
The reason I made my two suggestions is it would be very easy and rejuvenate the D3 community somewhat. All D2 had was player damage reduction and it was policed and run by the community. It kept D2 going a lot longer than seasons did and it made other pieces of loot more intriguing. far as my suggestion for ladders, seeing the same old cookie cutter builds gets old. I know my suggestion would lead to the same situation, but wouldn't it be fun seeing a WD toad build and how far you could push it and get recognised?
I enjoyed D3 and definitely got my entertainment value. I expect this game to go maintenance mode two seasons ago and now it just finally went maintenance. I've since switched to a few other games and are enjoying those thoroughly. When D3 finally gets some updates I'll be like most others probably play for awhile again before burning out. It's the nature of this series, it doesn't cost you to leave the game, you can always come back and enjoy any additional features.
TL;DR
It's been a good ride. Waiting for the new shiny, until then I'll enjoy Grim Dawn for my Diablo needs.
A new franchise or D4. Fixing D3 would be more work than starting fresh.
Only comment I can offer is add PvP with player damage reduction by 95% and add ladders based on specific abilities not classes (would see more variety of builds trying to push their limit).
Druid should be:
Str if bear
Dex if wolf
Int if caster
a triple base class would be interesting.
I think this class release is the best case hope for this game. It periodically adds revenue and maintains a player base without massive resources. Fixing D3 to what everyone would have hoped for is long gone. The expansion fixed a lot, but grifts, paragon, and one day character building killed this game.
Start with a clean slate and work on D4 with some solid foundation and concepts, but its going to be on the back drop with all the other titles running right now.
Burn out and left...
Once I came to the conclusion that the only way to progress in D3 was to skip monsters in a game that is all about killing monsters (and loot)... it was the last straw. Plvl farming and Season 5 introducing a retarded amount of power creep added to a good reason to leave.
If they reworked Plvls and changed ladders to based on main skill and not classes I'd consider going back. The great thing is leaving made me found Grim Dawn and I foresee 5 fold the amount of hours I put into D3 (roughly 1400 hours).
This isn't a bad game, nor will it ever be dead. I'm just done with it due to grift mechanics (Diablo used to be about killing monsters)
I do appreciate this post, kudos.
Just because you want something doesn't mean you deserve it, kids these days...
The D2 days really seem forgotten, but then again history repeats it's self. WD is my main btw, I might have to play one of my other 70's oh noes!!!
EDIT: Seriously every blizzard game has patches and some builds or classes always have a slight advantage over another, it promotes having multiple characters. It's funny how people seem to forget this every single patch. As for bugs, I can't comment much on this as these are free patches for a game with likely a small staff that doesn't bring in any revenue. I really can't complain compared to all these DLC and subscription based games in which I'd expect much more from. I'm also not a programmer and have no idea if this shit is complected, if its such a simple solution then go to blizzard and offer your personal time to fix such easy trivial matters that will not create any other problems.
TL;DR
Free content makes me happy for the 1500+ hours I've put into $100 of a game.
D2 was easy to gear up, min/maxing was near impossible. Same thing in D3. People who complain about it should take longer, just wait in 5-10 years when you start living real lives outside your parents basement, you won't have time for these things anymore. If you want to be an elitist epeen and have 16 hours to play video games all day everyday (ahh the good old days) go play hardcore and ladder and top the charts with mindless farming and grinding. That's where your claim to fame is.
Every patch and expansion in any Diablo game or Blizzard game for that matter has nerfed and made every single aspect of content easier. Why does this still surprise people? SC content is trivial, D2 by 1.09 was so easy to get anything you needed it was a complete joke. It starts happening in this game and people seem to lose their minds, forgetting what the older Diablo's were like (or claiming).
FYI Baal dropped shit most of the time and he was a pretty shitty way to farm upgrades imo.
TL;DR
RoRG is a stupid item and Blizzard screwed them selves over on handling the item and obtaining it. People who been playing since D1 are generally casuals now, the new generation can stroke their epeen being the first paragon 1000+ in ladder. There is a difference between gearing up and min/max and a lot of people don't understand that.
BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTHHURRRRRRRRRRRRRTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT FTW I LOVES THE INTERNETZ.