Kind of a weird argument. People die in HC too, so yes, it is a reward for not dying.
There should be much more of this tbh, I have sadly stopped playing HC (well, not playing D3 at all currently) because of the random disconnects and major lag/DDOS issues that has plagued the game. but it would be lovely if some of the experience could be recreated in SC, with meaningful rewards for caring about your survival.
People could do it by choice.
But ladder is by choice as well. Just a choice better formalized in an official system, where you can for example see your previous paragon lvl record etc (according to datamining) to add a better sense of competition (whether it is toward others, or just a competition against yourself).
And by having such an official system, it only makes it easier to get your friends to start fresh at the same time for example.
Even if there is no global economy to reset, there is the personal "economy" of moving up the gear curve. Which, just like a trading economy, will be saturated at some point, where you have gained pretty much everything.
Ladder resets give you a chance to start over, and get the experience of getting lots of upgrades, building your characters around those drops etc, all over again.
Voted no.
Gear is being reset (as it should), crafting materials, and to some degree gold etc. seem to be as well.
So the only thing not reset is lvls and paragon lvls. Seems fair enough.
I dont really have a whole lot of paragon lvls to lose, but for those who do, I dont see why it should all go away.
The reason gear etc should be reset, is so everyone can find new gear, and thus make it more fun. The same reasoning hardly exists for paragon, when it is endless.
And since normal lvling sucks so hard in Diablo 3,m making everyone reroll would pretty much just be trolling from Blizzard.
I also want to point out that it's also fun to see some people that have applauded the introduction of BoA Legendaries because "trade gives an unfair advantage" oppose a hypothetical wipe (that will never happen) because "this is a non-competitive game" and they "don't care that others have an advantage".
Unfortunately there is no disconnect between those opinions.
Trading offers an advantage at any point in time. Il better of trading right now, regardless of what went before or where you are right now.
This is not comparable to being better off because you have played more hours previously. Here, playing another hour is still just the same as playing another hour.
The issue with trading is not that some people have an advantage over others, because they are more skilled, have more time etc. It would be one boring game if you could not improve your character over time
It is only a matter of which playstyle is more advantageous in any given point in time. Right now and right here.
So, how in the world is being unable to trade items with your friends, people you've known for YEARS, just because they weren't online... or in your game at the tme... an INCREASE in fun?
Sorry, wasnt saying that the lack of trading would necessarily increase fun (though I believe it will).
I was just saying that limiting options can add more fun to a game.
In response to an analogy about how "more options are always better".
You are right though, sharing (I wouldnt consider it trading) with friends can be great.
I cant really come up with a decent system where you can share with friends, no matter if they are online or not, while you can't trade with everyone. So for me, the loss of sharing with friends is outweighed by the benefit (as I see it) of not having the loot hunt harmed by trading.
At least being able to trade within your current game session means yoyu can often share drops with your friends, even if you cant always do so. Helps to reduce some of the negative aspect, increasing the net-gain in my view.
Actually, I would consider Clan-trading a decent compromise. As long as there were limits in place to make sure hat you didn't just have a 1000000 member clan Maybe something like 20-25 members in a clan. Need to be in a clan for 1 week before you can trade. Can only trade items that dropped while being in the clan.
The AH interface could be used for this.
I'm perfectly fine with the Group-BOA though.
A real life example you find a gold nugget on a walk (your in oz), hot damn what's it worth must be worth a few bob. Now you got some thril right there but are you gona keep it? Hell no got me some nice wheels drive about in. Did changing the gold or the car make you less happy? No it made you more happy cos now u have what you wanted.
Maybe so, but a game isn't "real life", nor should it try to be.
A game should give you a fun experience within its rules and limitations. If more limitations can increase the fun, then I'll gladly take them.
Actually, Blizzard has said multiple times during Blzizcon that they wanted to improve crafting., Of course, with lack of details, it is just hot air.
One thing is certain in all this, it really is terrible communication.
It might be so on purpose though. Drop a bomb outside the focus of Blizzcon, sit back and watch the reaction. So much easier to backtrack if you can say it was just a misunderstanding.
Most of your "solutions" could also be instated if people exercised some strength of character and willpower, instead of mindlessly following the path of least resistance like some brainless electrons.
If people are trying to become as good as they possibly can, using all tools available is reasonable.
It shouldn't be needed to make up our own arbitrary limitations for the game to be fun.
I'm starting to think thta probably the best way to handle this particular issue was to have 2 separate modes, a self-found mode and a free-market mode, and people can choose the lesser evil on their own. Even if it would severely segregate the community. Otherwise it's gonna be an eternal Trojans vs Greeks war.
That could work, but if droprates are the same in these two modes, then you are not offering people a fair choice.
Unless droprates are balanced for the lack of trading (and vice versa) then two modes would not really be different from just self-restricting yourself today.
The most efficient way to play would be to pick trade-mode, like using AH is the most efficient today.
"I can't play <build> because I haven't found <item>, <item>, or <item>" is an asinine block to customizing your character. Since I know maka plays a WD, and I play a WD, let's say he is aiming for a DoT based WD and I'm aiming for a pet-based WD. The datamined strings show that there are legendaries that can support both. If I get the DoT gear and he gets the pet gear then neither of us are satisfied.... and even though there is a LOGICAL way to rectify it just by us exchanging our items so that we can play the desired build.... apparently we can't have that.
So we eliminate FotM builds... but we also potentially stick people with playing builds they don't want to play because they haven't found the right set/legendary items on their own. Sounds like one bad situation followed by another bad situation... and not an actual solution to the problem.
The game could, imo, be more interesting if you aren't necessarily striving toward one specific build as you progress, but rather you are adjusting to what items you get.
Of course at some point on the progress curve, you reach a point where you start to have found so much gear that you take full control of what to spec.
But for a while, is it so bad to adjust and try to make the best out of what you have?
The solution to this particular problem is actually BALANCING SKILLS so that there aren't "FOTM builds" to begin with. Shocking, I know. In your "solution" FOTM builds would still exist... but access to them would be cut off, and that wouldn't actually fix the problem.
True. The only fix for FOTM is balance. And a huge increase in diverse challenges in the game.
Defined character progression - you can't just stack your little brother/ neighbor on their first day playing.
Why in the world is this something that needs to be eliminated? Again, this was something that people did in D2 and history showed that it didn't have any kind of major adverse effects. You're "solving" a problem that doesn't exist except in your own mind.
I agree it isn't a major issue. But by feeding people with items, you do risk reducing the fun they can have with the game.
But even if it isn't a big issue, it is insanely difficult to limit trading outside your group of friends, without also limiting it within that group. Then it becomes a matter of whether or not that trade-off is worth it.
It is never the players problem. It is Blizzards.
It is their job as designers, to create a good game, and very often save people from themselves. Which includes babysitting them sometimes.
Clan-only trading might be a decent middle ground for trading vs BoA.
But it would require fairly small size cap on clans Like 25-50 players at most.
It would require weird rules to prevent people from just jumping to a new clan to trade. Like keeping track of who was in a clan the exact moment each item dropped. Could be fairly confusing.
Friend list trading seems redundant, if clan-trading existed.
One very worrisome thing to me here is that Blizzard is essentially saying clearly, the BiS items will ALWAYS be Legs/Sets. Rares are being declared as a clear second best. Which means, for players that play often, after less than a year, we won't even bother to pick up rares anymore. Why bother?
I've always said this and I'll say it again; Rares should be able to compete with Legendaries, minus a given special effect/affix
I totally agree. But I think this is a lost cause by now. Blizzard apparently can't do something as "complex" as that.
The best we can hope for, seem,s to be, that they manage to make legendaries interesting and very diverse. That will still be a huge upgrade from how itemization is now.
Have you guys played the console version? If so you know with hardly any effort you get every damn legendary and set item you need. Now that we know rare legend and set items will be BiS in RoS i highly doubt they will be hard to find.
This is what my fear is. I don't want OMFGodly items mashed up and spoon fed to me all day long.
Isn't that how it is now with AH?
I kinda doubt godly items will drop all the time. Just because legendaries will drop often, it hardly means they will always be perfect.
But it is something Blizzard should answer. When greatly increasing droprates, how do they plan to offer progress 6 months or 12 months down the road?
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Kind of a weird argument. People die in HC too, so yes, it is a reward for not dying.
There should be much more of this tbh, I have sadly stopped playing HC (well, not playing D3 at all currently) because of the random disconnects and major lag/DDOS issues that has plagued the game. but it would be lovely if some of the experience could be recreated in SC, with meaningful rewards for caring about your survival.
But ladder is by choice as well. Just a choice better formalized in an official system, where you can for example see your previous paragon lvl record etc (according to datamining) to add a better sense of competition (whether it is toward others, or just a competition against yourself).
And by having such an official system, it only makes it easier to get your friends to start fresh at the same time for example.
Ladder resets give you a chance to start over, and get the experience of getting lots of upgrades, building your characters around those drops etc, all over again.
Gear is being reset (as it should), crafting materials, and to some degree gold etc. seem to be as well.
So the only thing not reset is lvls and paragon lvls. Seems fair enough.
I dont really have a whole lot of paragon lvls to lose, but for those who do, I dont see why it should all go away.
The reason gear etc should be reset, is so everyone can find new gear, and thus make it more fun. The same reasoning hardly exists for paragon, when it is endless.
And since normal lvling sucks so hard in Diablo 3,m making everyone reroll would pretty much just be trolling from Blizzard.
Unfortunately there is no disconnect between those opinions.
Trading offers an advantage at any point in time. Il better of trading right now, regardless of what went before or where you are right now.
This is not comparable to being better off because you have played more hours previously. Here, playing another hour is still just the same as playing another hour.
The issue with trading is not that some people have an advantage over others, because they are more skilled, have more time etc. It would be one boring game if you could not improve your character over time
It is only a matter of which playstyle is more advantageous in any given point in time. Right now and right here.
A wipe is irrelevant in that regard.
- Nephalem Rifts
- Bounties
- Adventure mode (mostly teleporting everywhere)
- More interesting legendaries
- Much less/no emphasis on trading (aka BoA)
- Claiming that defensive stats will be more important again (not a single proof though)
Cons- Itemization still seems kinda bad. Universally good stats still exists..
- Still no death penalty in SC, though some slight hints at it
- Not much talk on improved tactical gameplay
- Still no failsafe on disconnects Stacraft 2-style.
- Apparently NV is removed instead of improved
MehI was just saying that limiting options can add more fun to a game.
In response to an analogy about how "more options are always better".
You are right though, sharing (I wouldnt consider it trading) with friends can be great.
I cant really come up with a decent system where you can share with friends, no matter if they are online or not, while you can't trade with everyone. So for me, the loss of sharing with friends is outweighed by the benefit (as I see it) of not having the loot hunt harmed by trading.
At least being able to trade within your current game session means yoyu can often share drops with your friends, even if you cant always do so. Helps to reduce some of the negative aspect, increasing the net-gain in my view.
Actually, I would consider Clan-trading a decent compromise. As long as there were limits in place to make sure hat you didn't just have a 1000000 member clan
The AH interface could be used for this.
I'm perfectly fine with the Group-BOA though.
A game should give you a fun experience within its rules and limitations. If more limitations can increase the fun, then I'll gladly take them.
One thing is certain in all this, it really is terrible communication.
It might be so on purpose though. Drop a bomb outside the focus of Blizzcon, sit back and watch the reaction. So much easier to backtrack if you can say it was just a misunderstanding.
If people are trying to become as good as they possibly can, using all tools available is reasonable.
It shouldn't be needed to make up our own arbitrary limitations for the game to be fun.
Unless droprates are balanced for the lack of trading (and vice versa) then two modes would not really be different from just self-restricting yourself today.
The most efficient way to play would be to pick trade-mode, like using AH is the most efficient today.
The game could, imo, be more interesting if you aren't necessarily striving toward one specific build as you progress, but rather you are adjusting to what items you get.
Of course at some point on the progress curve, you reach a point where you start to have found so much gear that you take full control of what to spec.
But for a while, is it so bad to adjust and try to make the best out of what you have?
True. The only fix for FOTM is balance. And a huge increase in diverse challenges in the game.
I agree it isn't a major issue. But by feeding people with items, you do risk reducing the fun they can have with the game.
But even if it isn't a big issue, it is insanely difficult to limit trading outside your group of friends, without also limiting it within that group. Then it becomes a matter of whether or not that trade-off is worth it.
Although I will keep whining about the things that need to be improved.
But happy to see that some of these might be improved through BoA.
It is their job as designers, to create a good game, and very often save people from themselves. Which includes babysitting them sometimes.
Clan-only trading might be a decent middle ground for trading vs BoA.
But it would require fairly small size cap on clans Like 25-50 players at most.
It would require weird rules to prevent people from just jumping to a new clan to trade. Like keeping track of who was in a clan the exact moment each item dropped. Could be fairly confusing.
Friend list trading seems redundant, if clan-trading existed.
The best we can hope for, seem,s to be, that they manage to make legendaries interesting and very diverse. That will still be a huge upgrade from how itemization is now.
I kinda doubt godly items will drop all the time. Just because legendaries will drop often, it hardly means they will always be perfect.
But it is something Blizzard should answer. When greatly increasing droprates, how do they plan to offer progress 6 months or 12 months down the road?