A lot of these comments are why I mentioned just adding relevant non combat modifiers to get a single relative value. Getting a %Weapon dmg that is modified by all relevant modifiers gives enough information to see how sets, or passives or elemental dmg might effect a skill, but it does not give you the in combat equivalent.
It's a hard element of game development, but there is a point where too much information is bad. Like Flextt mentioned, there is a point were over transparency makes an argument towards homogeny. I think that since there are so many proc and trigger effects (cross class as well) a dmg range isn't really a good indication of dmg. However, %Weapon dmg is relative, so if something boosts all your dmg by another 20% (like another classes effect, or other players gems) you can make a basic assumption that all your dmg is going up. Yes, it does not effect everything the same way, but there has to be some amount of reward for experimentation, not just theorem.
All-in-all I think that would be a good idea. I don't think writing the dmg range is a good idea, but I do like the idea of condensing all relevant multiplies onto a tooltip. So something like: "Generic Nuke: 100%Weapon dmg" ->Advanced numbers"Generic Nuke: 1452% Weapon dmg (base 100%W, 20 Passive A, 5% Passive B, 300% Nuke Set, 12.5% Bracers)......."
The range is going to force the devs into a position where they have to number crunch, and that's never fun, and usually a waste of dev time. I think seeing a "total effect" and a "total dmg %" gets the job done on each skill. Advanced players could still quickly see the total % dmg of the skill, and see the contribution that goes into it.
Thanks for moving my comment to the right thread, Bagstone. I'll see if I can take advantage of the generosity of a higher paragon player that doesn't need more. It's a good suggestion.
It seems really silly that they are so rare... Maybe at least allow us to Kadala potions with the gift in the mix? IDK. With nearly needing a gift for every weapon they are nearly unobtainable even half as often as they are needed.
I would like to go to the official boards with this (I like talking to "fans" here more then general population players there), but would like any feedback people have. Obviously it's better to open with an informed and vetted dialog. As I said, my 2 cents are that there needs to be a (possibly cumbersome) method of obtaining one. Maybe an attunement of sorts? Like a gem with no benefit that sockets itself into a weapon (that is maybe purchasable for a large amount of gold) that after X monster kills converts to what a gift provides? An open socket instead of the gem itself, and only for that weapon? Could make it a massive number of kills to make it fair. Thoughts?
So I've gotten 3 decent Ancient weapons. However, the annoying thing it that each one of them has +dmg or +atkspeed, and really crappy rolls on it's base dmg. So I don't want to roll a stat to a socket then back once I get a Ramaladni's Gift, because I'll be forever stuck with a terrible dmg roll.
I'm getting close to Plvl300 on the season, and both me and my friend haven't seen a gift drop yet. Did I miss something in the patch notes about it being changed to drop from a different condition? If it's the same, is there any way to farm for a gift specifically? Or at least up my odds? 300 levels of no gift seems a little silly to me.
My biggest issue with splashing 2Jade is that it really only gives you a single target dmg boost. WD have a lot of cool ways to do decent single target dmg, we lack AOE mostly. If 2Jade changed Haunt to a radius AOE (that debuffed and nuked in a small radius) I would imagine the build might have potential.
Personally I like the 6Helltooth 2/3Zuni build more for a weird split build. If you stack some items right (like that dagger that gives you extra fetishes) you can end up with some pretty silly defense. I could pretty much nap in anything less then Grift45.
Personally, I don't see the problem with the Leader-Board being a time sink, or skill caps that take time, or RNG. I see the problem with the Leader-Board being user disenfranchisement. I think it boils down to an issue with Seasons not fulfilling the role that most of the community wants from them.
To some extent, I like that the Leader-Board has the extreme end of the spectrum (as current) highlighted. As was pointed out previously, having high end streamers and competitive play is the kind of social ideological advertising that fuels a lot of interest for games. However, that leaves a large mid ranged gap. So you have the high end players on the Leader-Boards, which fuels interest in the game ("I want to be that good/geared"), which supplies low end/starting players. The game also attracts starting players through a myriad of other means, but they all end up in that same "starting" category. Then you get a mid-range of players once they graduate from a starting player. Players may or may not want to cross this mid-range position, but with the Leader-Boards only catering to extremely high end players, this ends up being a very large group.
So the problem is; "What is the Season experience doing for the mid-range player?" You can say they add stuff to the game, but there is no reason they can't add that to a core game outside of Seasons. You can say that it's a refresh of perspective and a fresh start, but you can self impose that with an alt and a bit of self control from your own stash (or an added game feature that locks you out of your group stash for a certain amount of time).
Seasons give a unique cut to the game where they can allow for managed micro environments to the game as a whole. I think that Leader-Boards are good, but they aren't taking advantage of the mechanic itself. I have a million ideas on how better to do that, but I think that the conversation is off track. We are all talking about how lob-sided the Leader-Boards are, but I think the real problem isn't the few with "too much time", but rather, why do we feel there is a problem here to begin with?
I think they changed fetishes so that they always do the dmg type of your highest element. At least the spawned ones, maybe not the ones from the activated power.
I think they said that PvP would be a free patch. Was a blue post from a bit back. I just hope that because it's not, that they don't cut too many corners =/.
It's pretty lame, I know, but a little crit will go a long way for you. I wanted to build IAS, machine gun mode sounds more fun to me then a 3 second reload cannon. However, that's just not how this game works. You get better mana efficiency and way more dmg from stacking crit and crit dmg. I know you said you know that, but even a hit to int to gain crit would probably be worth it. To make it worth it you almost HAVE to have a crit dmg/socket weapon with crit dmg gem.
The other thing I would sugest is drop Acid cloud and go for a bears build. Acid Clouds strength lies in it's really high proc coefficient. That means that if you have LoH, or other on hit procs, it procs at a higher chance and higher value. Bears is lower, but better dmg. Since you have 0 LoH from what I can tell, you shouldn't need to high proc ability, and should get more dmg instead.
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A lot of these comments are why I mentioned just adding relevant non combat modifiers to get a single relative value. Getting a %Weapon dmg that is modified by all relevant modifiers gives enough information to see how sets, or passives or elemental dmg might effect a skill, but it does not give you the in combat equivalent.
It's a hard element of game development, but there is a point where too much information is bad. Like Flextt mentioned, there is a point were over transparency makes an argument towards homogeny. I think that since there are so many proc and trigger effects (cross class as well) a dmg range isn't really a good indication of dmg. However, %Weapon dmg is relative, so if something boosts all your dmg by another 20% (like another classes effect, or other players gems) you can make a basic assumption that all your dmg is going up. Yes, it does not effect everything the same way, but there has to be some amount of reward for experimentation, not just theorem.
.
All-in-all I think that would be a good idea. I don't think writing the dmg range is a good idea, but I do like the idea of condensing all relevant multiplies onto a tooltip. So something like: "Generic Nuke: 100%Weapon dmg" ->Advanced numbers"Generic Nuke: 1452% Weapon dmg (base 100%W, 20 Passive A, 5% Passive B, 300% Nuke Set, 12.5% Bracers)......."
The range is going to force the devs into a position where they have to number crunch, and that's never fun, and usually a waste of dev time. I think seeing a "total effect" and a "total dmg %" gets the job done on each skill. Advanced players could still quickly see the total % dmg of the skill, and see the contribution that goes into it.
Thanks for moving my comment to the right thread, Bagstone. I'll see if I can take advantage of the generosity of a higher paragon player that doesn't need more. It's a good suggestion.
It seems really silly that they are so rare... Maybe at least allow us to Kadala potions with the gift in the mix? IDK. With nearly needing a gift for every weapon they are nearly unobtainable even half as often as they are needed.
I would like to go to the official boards with this (I like talking to "fans" here more then general population players there), but would like any feedback people have. Obviously it's better to open with an informed and vetted dialog. As I said, my 2 cents are that there needs to be a (possibly cumbersome) method of obtaining one. Maybe an attunement of sorts? Like a gem with no benefit that sockets itself into a weapon (that is maybe purchasable for a large amount of gold) that after X monster kills converts to what a gift provides? An open socket instead of the gem itself, and only for that weapon? Could make it a massive number of kills to make it fair. Thoughts?
So I've gotten 3 decent Ancient weapons. However, the annoying thing it that each one of them has +dmg or +atkspeed, and really crappy rolls on it's base dmg. So I don't want to roll a stat to a socket then back once I get a Ramaladni's Gift, because I'll be forever stuck with a terrible dmg roll.
I'm getting close to Plvl300 on the season, and both me and my friend haven't seen a gift drop yet. Did I miss something in the patch notes about it being changed to drop from a different condition? If it's the same, is there any way to farm for a gift specifically? Or at least up my odds? 300 levels of no gift seems a little silly to me.
My biggest issue with splashing 2Jade is that it really only gives you a single target dmg boost. WD have a lot of cool ways to do decent single target dmg, we lack AOE mostly. If 2Jade changed Haunt to a radius AOE (that debuffed and nuked in a small radius) I would imagine the build might have potential.
Personally I like the 6Helltooth 2/3Zuni build more for a weird split build. If you stack some items right (like that dagger that gives you extra fetishes) you can end up with some pretty silly defense. I could pretty much nap in anything less then Grift45.
Personally, I don't see the problem with the Leader-Board being a time sink, or skill caps that take time, or RNG. I see the problem with the Leader-Board being user disenfranchisement. I think it boils down to an issue with Seasons not fulfilling the role that most of the community wants from them.
To some extent, I like that the Leader-Board has the extreme end of the spectrum (as current) highlighted. As was pointed out previously, having high end streamers and competitive play is the kind of social ideological advertising that fuels a lot of interest for games. However, that leaves a large mid ranged gap. So you have the high end players on the Leader-Boards, which fuels interest in the game ("I want to be that good/geared"), which supplies low end/starting players. The game also attracts starting players through a myriad of other means, but they all end up in that same "starting" category. Then you get a mid-range of players once they graduate from a starting player. Players may or may not want to cross this mid-range position, but with the Leader-Boards only catering to extremely high end players, this ends up being a very large group.
So the problem is; "What is the Season experience doing for the mid-range player?" You can say they add stuff to the game, but there is no reason they can't add that to a core game outside of Seasons. You can say that it's a refresh of perspective and a fresh start, but you can self impose that with an alt and a bit of self control from your own stash (or an added game feature that locks you out of your group stash for a certain amount of time).
Seasons give a unique cut to the game where they can allow for managed micro environments to the game as a whole. I think that Leader-Boards are good, but they aren't taking advantage of the mechanic itself. I have a million ideas on how better to do that, but I think that the conversation is off track. We are all talking about how lob-sided the Leader-Boards are, but I think the real problem isn't the few with "too much time", but rather, why do we feel there is a problem here to begin with?
I think they changed fetishes so that they always do the dmg type of your highest element. At least the spawned ones, maybe not the ones from the activated power.
The other thing I would sugest is drop Acid cloud and go for a bears build. Acid Clouds strength lies in it's really high proc coefficient. That means that if you have LoH, or other on hit procs, it procs at a higher chance and higher value. Bears is lower, but better dmg. Since you have 0 LoH from what I can tell, you shouldn't need to high proc ability, and should get more dmg instead.