A categorization I like to use is 'double rolls' on gear. For instance: inna's belt with over 101 dex is a double roll on dex. So if price one with 140 dex set dex to 101 to only show double rolled belts. You'll see pricing curves at these thresholds. Check out inna's chest above and below 200 vita for a clear threshold.
I hate to be the guy that brings up the fact that you selfishly purchased underpriced items and manipulated the market to give yours a selling advantage for your personal gain, and thus artificially inflated the economy for whoever was purchasing your goods. But hey. "congrats"
Capitalism, how does it work?
Swimmingly, considering post should read "How I made Blizzard/Paypal 1k euro".
To do this is one thing. To do it and brag is another. To praise him for it is ludicrous.
Pathetic. But it's the conditions blizzard creates so you can be their pawns.
I hate to be the guy that brings up the fact that you selfishly purchased underpriced items and manipulated the market to give yours a selling advantage for your personal gain, and thus artificially inflated the economy for whoever was purchasing your goods. But hey. "congrats"
+1
I hate you and your type, specifically since you mentioned AH sniping and flipping.
Don't hate the player? Hate the game? Yeah I hate that Blizz brought out the worst in people by making it seem ok to behave like this.
Grats on your personal gain to the dismay of people who actually want to use those items in game. You're a genuine AH tycoon.
To run skorn don't I need like a ton of IAS to make that work?
Just the opposite. Tempest rush drains spirit based on your APS, so lower APS means less spirit drain. I have IAS on gloves, bracers and one ring, but the 1.24 APS i'm at now is far less than the 2.4 APS i was at with my Fist+EF. Even though I had 2 spirit regen on my first, I can Temest Rush much further.
This is strictly for a tempest rush build but I use that all the time for farming. I outrun ww barbs with this spec, and have 0 regen from gear other than .33 from inna's set bonus.
It scales with your DPS (an upgrade to DPS, is an upgrade to survival).
LoH helps for health link reflect packs which can reflect more than you steal, but LoH is nowhere near as useful as LS.
I tick for 12-15k heals on a single target during ubers. When I pop seven sided strike, I guarnteed fill my health pool. I used to run with 2.9 LS and 800LoH EF. Switch to skorn and relfect problems were a thing of the past.
It's not that LoH is a bad stat, but I would never shop for it. Especially with monks where half our DPS does not proc it.
Just my opinion, based on extensive testing. Also, getting > 5% LS on dual wield is going to be extremely expensive or hinder the weapon selection. That's why I skorn. 75m for 300dex, 270CD, 1k base dmg (which winds and cyclones proc from), balck dmg (your % holy from inna's belt scales from), and it consumes far less spirit during tempest rush. Oh crap, forgot to mention.. 5% LS. I really hate the fact it's so functional because it feels slow and not as fun as dual wielding, but it's amazing bang for the buck. Would be > 500m for two handers.
RE: WKL, there's a 25% bonus to thunder skills. 25% on top of 600dmg is 750dmg. Base dmg on skorn is 1000. Not to mention again you can't get CD and LS on a WKL, and either CD or LS on a decent WKL with socket will run you 150m++++(as in up to 500m). Also it consumes a lot of spirit for tempest rush, which I live by, except for mp8+ ubers where I use a combination strike and deadly reach to get an extra 32% dmg buff.
There's a bunch of rearranging you can do to get much better for 60m.
Gloves are stupid cheap right now. I couldn't believe the price i was seeing for 9cc, 30+ CD with 100+ dex and high rolls of double res. Like 1-2m for some pairs. That's a simple upgrade.
But I'd look for different bracers with some CC. IAS is the last thing you want to add (after CC and CD). I think lacuni's with AR will sell for enough to replace with better rares with double res, vit, dex and 5cc. Worthwhile Lacuni's are 100M++ and not worth it until end game.
To replace movement speed from lacuni's, it might be time to consider going for nat's combo. I paid 50m boots and 46m for my ring this last weekend. You can get a much cheaper nat's ring without CD and boots with lower vita if you can afford to lose the vitality.
Your helm is also very replaceable for an inna's with double res and much more dex. Extra res on the helm means you can drop it elsewhere. Do not be afraid to drop to lower res for higher dps. I run with 474 All Res. The life steal on your weapons will balance life lost from less mitigation. EHP calculators will not tell you this. Don't be afraid to drop res if you're killing things faster and have leach. You need just enough to not get 1 shot and tolerate reflect.
Your belt is an ideal place to drop res for a nice double dex roll (150+ dex) for pretty cheap (~10m). Ride with that until you can replace it with a double dex/vita version.
Damn...I know I've read this before. But where........
Thankfully, this is a computer game and not the real world. The options here are very limited; you don't have crazy things like on the stock market where you can bid on things going downhill and benefit from companies going bankrupt. You also don't have a debt system that creates "bubbles". All money that's been traded in D3 is backed up by gold in the system, real money on the RMAH, and items that are associated with a specific value.
Anyways, my sentence is still misleading. What I wanted to say is that prices will adjust themselves - even though the price might be high and in the billions, as you can see in my example. There are just super rich people who pay multiple billions for a perfect item. But there's no one spending 5 billion on an item that is worth 5 gold (like what's happening at the stock market right now with Apple and Facebook and shit, creating a new bubble and no one cares because it's not even their money).
There are bubbles, just not with the same level of disparity. I think there was a pretty significant bubble 1.4 legendaries when they first came out, specifically SoJs, until people realized they're not as gravy as they wish they were and there was also a huge bubble with the gem duping that took place. But you're dead on about the differences.
Bagstone.. you just blew my mind man. I can't believe you took the time to write all that down and graph it. Amazing.
In the thread on official forums (which quickly turned to shit), someone suggested AH fees and I really liked that idea. Ebay has those for a reason. I'm not sure if it will bring about the same fair market value as minimum starting bid cap but if it were a factor of minimum bid it would definitely make people think twice about BIN only auctions.
AH filppers do cause a problem for the economy. They directly made me lose out on items three times It's far more common and it doesn't even take 1000 AH flippers to do it. It just takes 10 guys with 20 accounts. Don't forget about RMAH slots and arbitrage
I read your post twice before responding. I feel like I owe you a better response than what I can formulate after one read though but the Vile Ward auction I was watching sold for 88m went right back up on the market for 150m BIN only. They were flipped. Maybe that person will f them self, maybe not. For the super rich, losing 80m to net a 30m gain (if they BIN for 150m - fees) is a risk worth taking. The golden parachute is selling them for 105m at a wash before the weekend is over.
The mempo with bids for 1.4b, well that's why I reject the concept of lowing the maximum BIN/bid on the AH which many have recommended. That mempo is worth 2b. It is a top world item.
As far as the rest of the mempos, you'd need more info on if those mempos with +4.5cc will sell in that range and what they were purchased for. A test I can't afford to run would be to put up a mempo with 4.5cc at 100k starting bid and see what it bid up to. There's less than 20 of them on the market. It's not that hard to corner that market and buy anything under 300m to place right back up at 400m. As long as you dump inventory before prices slip before 350m you're in the green. If they silp below that they might lose a little but it's hard to imagine a net loss.
It's simple market maker inventory management, you just need to have market maker capital to pull it off. For all we know some quant at Goldman Sachs who's a Diablo fan invested 5k in gold and is running this through basic algorithms. It would be a much more predictable market than actual futures/commodities because of the limited amount of inventory. Ok.. that's speculation and unfounded. But it's all too possible.
Didn't read all of it, but the reason why D3 suffers inflation is simply because there is no gold sink. Period. The AH is a closed system, the 15% going out don't matter much. The real cause is to be found ingame.
Repair costs are way too low compared to what even white mobs drop, the vendor items suck as usual (why not like in D1 where you could actually buy King's Staff of Haste off Griswold for 100k?), and crafting is DEAD. Fix either of that (or all these problems) and inflation is gone.
Wow the discussion here is so much better than official forums. Thanks for the alternate community.
So my counterpoint to teh gold sink is that this approach prevents doesn't prevent gold inflation. It prevents item inflation, thus devaluing gold. Off to lunch but will be back to chat more.
Yeah but it's bullets and skips the case example... I hope you can survive at least the tl;dr part.
There's some interest so far on the official forums but it seems to center around the regurgitated "gold sink" and "trade once" ideas. I'm trying to emphasize "fair market value" for items which is quite a different approach.
If you like this idea please visit it on the official forums for a bump. /topic/7198960210 (apologies to mods for circumventing URL posting restrictions as I'm a frequent visitor, first time poster here and cannot post links).
Well I have, like everyone else an idea on how to curb inflation. This is my first post here. I'll be posting on the official forums too but posts there tend to be buried immediately by QQ threads and I'm hoping to get some actual conversation going.
I'm sure I'm not the only one to have had this idea, but I haven't seen it specifically stated and I'll be itemizing rational.
So inflation. It's a problem right? I have a suspect that there's a majority of people that spend close to 80% of their time in the Auction House, sniping that sweet deal to flip for cash or gold. There's also a tremendous amount of AH botting that takes place. I think this is worse than people botting for gold or paragon levels ingame because the only reason to make gold is to buy upgrades. Due to the people flipping and inflating prices on the Auction House, the value of gold is sky high. Not the monetary value, that's dropping. But what can be bought with the gold is decreasing every day, and this is due to the AH flipping.
Case in point: I went to search for some Vile Wards with %Life, Vitality and > 200 dex today. Of the 14, only 3 allowed bids (min bid and buyout were not the same). Two of those three had minimum bids of 100m. The buy only sets ranged from 110m to 1.5b, with the set at 110m having only 4hrs left. In other words, they weren't going to sell. The only viable pair to actually bid on had a 19m bid with 7hrs left.
Now, I'm pretty sure that the pair with bids at 19m would end up selling for 50-80m range. I'd like to assume that's going to be by someone who will use them, but the sad reality is that they will probably go right back up on the AH for 150m from whoever bought them (I have another idea which would disallow someone from reselling something on the AH for (24-48hrs), but it's not the point I'm trying to make here). My point is that the market is only willing to pay 50-80m for them, and the majority of items with these stats will just sit in the hands of AH tycoons who are trying to get way more than fair market value out of them .
TL;DR (read only below)
The solution is simple. Do not allow "buy only" auctions. Do this by setting a cap on minimum bid. Make minimum bid cap of 10x or even 100x of vendor value. Here's the bullets.
It enables fair market value of items being sold.
A floor of 40-400k would allow anyone to bid, and greatly prevent flipping items on the auction house.
You can set buy out to whatever you want. That way you can still get "quick cash" if you needed it.
No cap on minimum bid means Auction House is the game, not slaying demons. How can one compete with someone who spends all their time putting in game items out of reach for all but the super rich? Or worse, a bot that does it.
Gold botting is devauled, gold itself is devauled. What good is having billions of gold if great items are within reach?
Godly items are unaffected. This is super important. An end game item will still be noticed and sell for the value the market sets for it. This is included in the definition of fair.
Some suggest that nobody will sell on the AH anymore then. The majority of people will still sell on AH because fair market value is fair. You can still sell your godly items via trade forums to avoid fees, but the liquidity of the AH will never be beat by trade forums.
In typing this post I realized I haven't considered the impact or how to address commodity which do not allow of any bids at all. I fear they could become the new thing to flip, although the fact they fall regularly and can have no real sink might mitigate potential explosion of value from market makers.
I'm looking for good additional points, or perhaps counter points to add. I will update post as suggested.
In closing. AH flipping impacts the game far more than gold botting. Gold botting only affects the game because it enables AH flipping. We need to devalue gold.
The AH is NOT an auction house! It's a market with not enough open interest or liquidity to sustain itself. I'll post this on the official forums but I fear I've typed all this up only for it to get buried. I know everyone has ideas, but I'm really interested in discussing this with people who care about the game.
THanks for reading.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Swimmingly, considering post should read "How I made Blizzard/Paypal 1k euro".
To do this is one thing. To do it and brag is another. To praise him for it is ludicrous.
Pathetic. But it's the conditions blizzard creates so you can be their pawns.
AH tycoon: Morals not required.
+1
I hate you and your type, specifically since you mentioned AH sniping and flipping.
Don't hate the player? Hate the game? Yeah I hate that Blizz brought out the worst in people by making it seem ok to behave like this.
Grats on your personal gain to the dismay of people who actually want to use those items in game. You're a genuine AH tycoon.
Just the opposite. Tempest rush drains spirit based on your APS, so lower APS means less spirit drain. I have IAS on gloves, bracers and one ring, but the 1.24 APS i'm at now is far less than the 2.4 APS i was at with my Fist+EF. Even though I had 2 spirit regen on my first, I can Temest Rush much further.
This is strictly for a tempest rush build but I use that all the time for farming. I outrun ww barbs with this spec, and have 0 regen from gear other than .33 from inna's set bonus.
- Cyclones proc it.
- Winds proc it.
- Seven sided strike procs it.
- It scales with your DPS (an upgrade to DPS, is an upgrade to survival).
LoH helps for health link reflect packs which can reflect more than you steal, but LoH is nowhere near as useful as LS.I tick for 12-15k heals on a single target during ubers. When I pop seven sided strike, I guarnteed fill my health pool. I used to run with 2.9 LS and 800LoH EF. Switch to skorn and relfect problems were a thing of the past.
It's not that LoH is a bad stat, but I would never shop for it. Especially with monks where half our DPS does not proc it.
Just my opinion, based on extensive testing. Also, getting > 5% LS on dual wield is going to be extremely expensive or hinder the weapon selection. That's why I skorn. 75m for 300dex, 270CD, 1k base dmg (which winds and cyclones proc from), balck dmg (your % holy from inna's belt scales from), and it consumes far less spirit during tempest rush. Oh crap, forgot to mention.. 5% LS. I really hate the fact it's so functional because it feels slow and not as fun as dual wielding, but it's amazing bang for the buck. Would be > 500m for two handers.
RE: WKL, there's a 25% bonus to thunder skills. 25% on top of 600dmg is 750dmg. Base dmg on skorn is 1000. Not to mention again you can't get CD and LS on a WKL, and either CD or LS on a decent WKL with socket will run you 150m++++(as in up to 500m). Also it consumes a lot of spirit for tempest rush, which I live by, except for mp8+ ubers where I use a combination strike and deadly reach to get an extra 32% dmg buff.
Gloves are stupid cheap right now. I couldn't believe the price i was seeing for 9cc, 30+ CD with 100+ dex and high rolls of double res. Like 1-2m for some pairs. That's a simple upgrade.
But I'd look for different bracers with some CC. IAS is the last thing you want to add (after CC and CD). I think lacuni's with AR will sell for enough to replace with better rares with double res, vit, dex and 5cc. Worthwhile Lacuni's are 100M++ and not worth it until end game.
To replace movement speed from lacuni's, it might be time to consider going for nat's combo. I paid 50m boots and 46m for my ring this last weekend. You can get a much cheaper nat's ring without CD and boots with lower vita if you can afford to lose the vitality.
Your helm is also very replaceable for an inna's with double res and much more dex. Extra res on the helm means you can drop it elsewhere. Do not be afraid to drop to lower res for higher dps. I run with 474 All Res. The life steal on your weapons will balance life lost from less mitigation. EHP calculators will not tell you this. Don't be afraid to drop res if you're killing things faster and have leach. You need just enough to not get 1 shot and tolerate reflect.
Your belt is an ideal place to drop res for a nice double dex roll (150+ dex) for pretty cheap (~10m). Ride with that until you can replace it with a double dex/vita version.
There are bubbles, just not with the same level of disparity. I think there was a pretty significant bubble 1.4 legendaries when they first came out, specifically SoJs, until people realized they're not as gravy as they wish they were and there was also a huge bubble with the gem duping that took place. But you're dead on about the differences.
Do you have a finance degree or do this irl?
In the thread on official forums (which quickly turned to shit), someone suggested AH fees and I really liked that idea. Ebay has those for a reason. I'm not sure if it will bring about the same fair market value as minimum starting bid cap but if it were a factor of minimum bid it would definitely make people think twice about BIN only auctions.
AH filppers do cause a problem for the economy. They directly made me lose out on items three times It's far more common and it doesn't even take 1000 AH flippers to do it. It just takes 10 guys with 20 accounts. Don't forget about RMAH slots and arbitrage
I read your post twice before responding. I feel like I owe you a better response than what I can formulate after one read though but the Vile Ward auction I was watching sold for 88m went right back up on the market for 150m BIN only. They were flipped. Maybe that person will f them self, maybe not. For the super rich, losing 80m to net a 30m gain (if they BIN for 150m - fees) is a risk worth taking. The golden parachute is selling them for 105m at a wash before the weekend is over.
The mempo with bids for 1.4b, well that's why I reject the concept of lowing the maximum BIN/bid on the AH which many have recommended. That mempo is worth 2b. It is a top world item.
As far as the rest of the mempos, you'd need more info on if those mempos with +4.5cc will sell in that range and what they were purchased for. A test I can't afford to run would be to put up a mempo with 4.5cc at 100k starting bid and see what it bid up to. There's less than 20 of them on the market. It's not that hard to corner that market and buy anything under 300m to place right back up at 400m. As long as you dump inventory before prices slip before 350m you're in the green. If they silp below that they might lose a little but it's hard to imagine a net loss.
It's simple market maker inventory management, you just need to have market maker capital to pull it off. For all we know some quant at Goldman Sachs who's a Diablo fan invested 5k in gold and is running this through basic algorithms. It would be a much more predictable market than actual futures/commodities because of the limited amount of inventory. Ok.. that's speculation and unfounded. But it's all too possible.
Wow the discussion here is so much better than official forums. Thanks for the alternate community.
So my counterpoint to teh gold sink is that this approach prevents doesn't prevent gold inflation. It prevents item inflation, thus devaluing gold. Off to lunch but will be back to chat more.
There's some interest so far on the official forums but it seems to center around the regurgitated "gold sink" and "trade once" ideas. I'm trying to emphasize "fair market value" for items which is quite a different approach.
Well I have, like everyone else an idea on how to curb inflation. This is my first post here. I'll be posting on the official forums too but posts there tend to be buried immediately by QQ threads and I'm hoping to get some actual conversation going.
I'm sure I'm not the only one to have had this idea, but I haven't seen it specifically stated and I'll be itemizing rational.
So inflation. It's a problem right? I have a suspect that there's a majority of people that spend close to 80% of their time in the Auction House, sniping that sweet deal to flip for cash or gold. There's also a tremendous amount of AH botting that takes place. I think this is worse than people botting for gold or paragon levels ingame because the only reason to make gold is to buy upgrades. Due to the people flipping and inflating prices on the Auction House, the value of gold is sky high. Not the monetary value, that's dropping. But what can be bought with the gold is decreasing every day, and this is due to the AH flipping.
Case in point: I went to search for some Vile Wards with %Life, Vitality and > 200 dex today. Of the 14, only 3 allowed bids (min bid and buyout were not the same). Two of those three had minimum bids of 100m. The buy only sets ranged from 110m to 1.5b, with the set at 110m having only 4hrs left. In other words, they weren't going to sell. The only viable pair to actually bid on had a 19m bid with 7hrs left.
Now, I'm pretty sure that the pair with bids at 19m would end up selling for 50-80m range. I'd like to assume that's going to be by someone who will use them, but the sad reality is that they will probably go right back up on the AH for 150m from whoever bought them (I have another idea which would disallow someone from reselling something on the AH for (24-48hrs), but it's not the point I'm trying to make here). My point is that the market is only willing to pay 50-80m for them, and the majority of items with these stats will just sit in the hands of AH tycoons who are trying to get way more than fair market value out of them .
TL;DR (read only below)
The solution is simple. Do not allow "buy only" auctions. Do this by setting a cap on minimum bid. Make minimum bid cap of 10x or even 100x of vendor value. Here's the bullets.
In closing. AH flipping impacts the game far more than gold botting. Gold botting only affects the game because it enables AH flipping. We need to devalue gold.
The AH is NOT an auction house! It's a market with not enough open interest or liquidity to sustain itself. I'll post this on the official forums but I fear I've typed all this up only for it to get buried. I know everyone has ideas, but I'm really interested in discussing this with people who care about the game.
THanks for reading.