I think the idea is good. I was actually hoping that they would remove the customized stat system. I liked how the stat system worked in WoW (please, don't say "OMG WOW IS FER TEH NUBS!"), because you were able to be more focused on your skill usage, talents, and items. without worrying about whether you had messed up your character.
I didn't like the fact that I had to research how to properly allocate stats, just in order to be effective past normal mode. I will admit, to do really well, a player should have to work at it in order to do well. But just to be able to compete fairly well in the 2nd difficulty mode? The previous system wasn't terribly noob friendly and you really had no way to rectify past mistakes with character creation.
Yes, having the ability to customize a character's stats added depth to the game, but that doesn't mean there will be no depth in this game. We don't fully know how many spells characters will have or how well spells will work in conjunction with other spells. And if you've looked at the new Rune System, there will be a lot of different ways to customize your character and make it unique. Some Runes will work better than other runes for certain spells and people will be combing runes to spells in varying and interesting ways, ways that you wouldn't think to work well. Maybe people will find rune combinations that mimic strange builds from D2, builds that are very unique, but maybe aren't as effective as cookie cutter builds, but are fun nonetheless.
I don't see this change as a bad change, personally, I like this change. It isn't lessening the depth of the game, but rather the focus of the game is changing.
O and they may make item requirements to be similar to WoW. All they have is a level requirement, with some items being class specific. Item bonuses determine what type of class the item is for, but you can still wear whatever you want. We may still see different builds because there may not be class specific requirements for every item. So you may see Barbarians who are wearing items that boost their spell power for spells that do actual magic damage instead of focusing on melee strength. You could very well see types of builds like "Singer" barbs and Melee sorcs.
I'm actually glad this is gone. Leech was pretty dumb the way it was implemented in Diablo II. For most classes, you needed it, but you only needed so much. It was pretty much pointless to get more than just a few % of mana and/or life leech.
In almost every RPG or game with a stat system, you have stats or attributes that you need, but you don't stop once you get to a certain point, you get as much of the desired stats as you can. You may min/max a bit, but you that doesn't mean you stop at some ridiculously low number. Yeah, it wasn't hard to get mana and life leech, but it was the fact that it was something you needed, but getting more was pointless. It scaled pretty badly.
If mana/life leech returns, it needs to scale much better.
what I meant Mr Icicle was that while yes there is still some bickering about the art direction still, at least they stay in the right place.
When the art direction flaming first started, you couldn't make any thread without it turning into a flame fest about the art direction.
Now though people are willing to talk about other things, and keep the art flames in the threads that talk about them.
K, good point. You're right. I must have blocked that from my memory or something, because I can't really remember it, lol.
They only said the art direction is not changing. The items do not count towards the art direction. Items can be of different size, length and color. So they can modify it however they want. And I do think Bizzard will change them.
Umm... no. Item design is part of an art direction. But yes, whether they will change it or not is still possible. While they have said that their current art direction and vision wont change, that doesn't mean that "minor" issues such as item design wont be tweaked or changed.
Although I do hope that they go... I'm going to die for this wont I? Nope not happening. I hope that they keep armor and weapons proportional, at least to a degree. Call me sexist or whatever, but I don't mind large over sized armor and weapons odd for males, but it looks funky on females. I hope they tone down the shoulder pads on the female barb specifically.
I don't really see a point to the thread. People already jumped the gun, as in, it's old news. Happened a month ago. What is the use in pointing out that people get upset really, really, really easily? We aren't discussing the arguments, but just stating that some people are upset? Ummm... why?
Quote from "Djinn_690" »
x2
ROFLMAO
anyways your post is a bit late, people are starting to generally calm down around here.
I would heartily disagree. Despite Jay Wilson stating in two recent articles that the design team tinkered around with different art designs and have finally come to rest on the current iteration, people still seem to have their panties in several bundles. People can't or wont just shut up and realize that this is how it's going to be.
We have two rather large threads Diablo 3 Art Direction No Going Back and Diablo 3 will kill Blizzard?, which despite the titles are pretty much just people bickering about the art direction. People aren't letting it go, people wont let it go, at least on this fan forum.
A side note/question. People tend to be rather inflammatory here and pretty immature, or at least some newcomers from the last couple weeks. Diii.net seems to be empty of that kind of crap. Do they have better, or should I say, more strict moderation? Or is that more just my imagination and I need to look around their forums some more?
GFG, Awesome! I'm so happy that they are sticking to their guns and staying with their chosen art direction. I loved the atmosphere, look, and feel of the gameplay trailer so much. GGNORE!
OR they can just focus on multiplayer play, which is what they are doing, and let sp players rot
people don't still play sc and wc3 because it has AMAZING SINGLEPLAYER LOL
its because of the custom community and battle.net, diablo 2 is still popular because of
battle.net
tbh the people who post here are usually the vocal minority, art-protesters, single-scrubs, oh and this kid vladdracul
just because you can't hack it online doesn't mean the rest of the world needs to suffer
Speak for yourself. I bought and played the first Warcraft: Orcs and Humans. I enjoyed the single player. I bought Warcraft 2 and Warcraft 2:Tides of Darkness. I loved the fact that there was a larger story element involved. I read the lore in the manual who knows how many times.
I bought and played Starcraft and Brood War and it was a few years after playing the game several times through single player until I starting playing on b.net. I loved b.net, but I also thoroughly enjoyed the single player experience. After having played multiplayer for several years and playing numerous types of awesome custom games, I still played single player. Why? Because the campaigns were very well done and I enjoyed it.
I played Diablo 2 and played it through a few times in single player before moving to b.net. I played b.net for several years, but not without some problems and discouragement with the setup and community.
I played Warcraft 3 for.... guess what? The single player. It wasn't for quite awhile that I moved onto b.net. Why? Because for awhile I was satisfied with the single player.
So... what have we learned here? Some people like playing single player. Some people initially buy a game just for the single player component. Some people are reluctant to playing online for numerous reasons. Just because you don't have those same reasons or that same reluctantly doesn't void their opinions or feelings.
No one here is asking for multiplayer to be done away with, just improved. So I don't know where the hell you are coming from. Who argues against something being improved?
That's what this whole thread has been about: some people asking for aspects of the online play to be improved and others, like you, telling them to shut up and sit down as if nothing at all is wrong with b.net and with no concept of being able to improve upon it.
Some people, like my brother, would rather just jump right into multiplayer. I, and others like me, aren't asking for my brother's and others' experience to be ruined. All we are doing is discussing viable ways for the experience to be improved upon, from the standpoint of people who did not find the online experience to be 100% enjoyable.
Well, if Belial and Azmodan are still having a civil war with each other, that may be spilling over into Sanctuary as well. Both sides simultaneously invading Sanctuary and vying for territory and control. Just a theory though.
Although it's probably just what others here have mentioned.
I never had any problems telling uniques and rares apart on my CRT, on my brother's LCD I did, but he would always defend it, so I guess when you're used to it then it's easy? IDK how you guys all have such trouble, maybe you have mental deficiencies?
No mental deficiencies here my good sir, just moderate to severe color deficiency thank you very much.
But no, it's usually not terrible. At times I couldn't tell right away if it was yellow or gold, but other than that I was fine playing D2. Granted, some games and pie charts suck because there are way too many colors that look the same, but that's besides the point.
Gold or purple I don't really care. Personally, if they do stay with gold for uniques, I hope the gold color is a bit more stark and bold. In D2 it seems to be kind of hazy and light, but that might just be my eyes.
My thought would be that they were not partied. I don't know if Blizzard is keeping Diablo 2's party screen icons. We could see two small boxes in the top left corner when the Barbarian received the help of those two mercenaries, similarly to Diablo 2, but not the Witch Doctor when he was fighting with the other 3 characters.
So either they were not partied, the other characters were out of range of the Battle Cry, or some other reason I can't think of.
sounds very, VERY interesting... but one thing troubles me...
what did he mean by that? what dramatic way so that the way the fight progresses? does he think of the change of color and a little more speed?
probably not the way he comes to the world since there is no fight at that point at all....
Yea, I think he does mean the fact that the Thousand Pounder lit up and moved/attacked faster. As you said, nothing else happened in the fight and the creation of the monster doesn't affect the fight in any way. Hopefully, there will be actual "dramatic" changes in boss fights. Granted, it was cool how he lit up and swung his axes around, but I wouldn't describe it as dramatic.
Also, because it wasn't in the OP and some people seem to be getting really excited about a loss of limbs.
Quote from "Bashoik" »
It was just an example I made up, I don't know if the loss of a limb would actually happen or make sense for a fight.
So ya. It might not actually happen at this point. It was just the opinion/idea of a CM.
Its a term dirived from WoW, isnt it? Didnt play WoW, but im pretty sure i know what a cooldown is and now i looked it up so now im sure
But youre right. We better make sure we know what 'cooldown' is for the sake of the argument
It's not really dervived from WoW, just a fairly common mechanic in RPGs and some Action Adventure games.
Quote from "RAppel" »
Its slow (Leap), but does it have a cooldown? And the same with Charge, does it also have a cooldown? If so, Id better back of. Then I clearly dont know what im talking about and shount argue about it, hehe
Eh, no. You're right. I just checked the gameplay trailer to see if it has a cooldown and I can't see anything that would suggest one for leap. He leaps pretty much right after finishing a leap and I can't see a grayed out area to suggest a cooldown. Charge does have seem to have a cooldown though.
Quote from "RAppel" »
Is Teleport that superior compared to other classes skill?
I dunno really. I'm mostly just worried about online games turning into the same BS that was LoD. Constant Baal runs where a game would fall apart if there wasn't a sorc to tele to the worldstone keep.
Quote from "RAppel" »
For example BO increases you and you party members life/man thrice (is that even a word? LOL)
Yea, but with Barbarian shouts everyone in the party gains just as much benefit as the Barbarian, although that is a moot point in regards to pvp. And yes, thrice is a word.
Quote from "RAppel" »
Dont even get me started on Smite, but that is prolly the best skill in D2 as it is now...
Smite is only good when combined with Crushing Blow and a Grief Runeword. So the main problem there isn't the spell itself, but rather bad implementation of items.
Quote from "RAppel" »
CE can clear an entire screen...
True, has to have corpses first and gotta have it at a high lvl.
Quote from "RAppel" »
Never did much PvPing but was sorcs superior in PvP pre 1.10+ due to the fact they where the only chars with teleport?
Mostly, although a good Barb or Pally could take them down.
I dunno. After thinking about it and talking about this with you Rappel. I guess I don't object to the spell so much, but rather the spell as it was used in D2 and how the overall community saw it. Hardly anyone actually played through the game. I mean, I know that after you've played through a game a couple of times it gets boring. But what's the fun in just getting rushed to Act 5 and leeching from Baal runs to just do it all over again in NM and Hell mode?
O by the way. I don't mean in any way to implicate or insult you Rappel in that. I don't know how you play or what you do to have fun.
If teleport has a high mana cost that stays high where you can't just spam it over and over and over again. Sure I wouldn't mind it being in.
Side-ish topic: I hated mfing. I honest to god hope that Magic Find and MFing runs are no longer in the game. I mean, I mfed, I just hated it. When I did mf I did it on my necro, so I didn't feel slighted that sorcs were better at it. I just didn't like the concept of having to farm for gear in order to succeed in leveling. It's not like in some MMOs where you have to farm to get money and gear, because farming occurs for the most part in end game. I wouldn't mind having to kill Diablo or whoever is the last boss on Hell mode dozens or hundreds of times to get the best gear in the game. But I don't want to have to do that shit to level up.
A cooldown would make it so you cant recast a specific spell instantly, n'est pas?
Yes, yes it does. A cooldown means that there is a waiting period before you can cast the spell again. It has nothing to do with whether a spell instantly casts or not. So that still stands, teleport can still be a teleport per wikipedia definition and have a cooldown.
Quote from "RAppel" »
Then there should be a cooldown for all means of transportation (Leap, and what other stuff they come up with (Charge, BoS (nerfed) etc)
Well ya. Haven't you noticed that most of the Barb's skills like leap and the charge move had cooldowns already?
Quote from "RAppel" »
If a class cant be superior to other classes in some way what makes them unique to other classes then?
There's nothing wrong with superiority but having a flagrantly huge difference in power or ability is.
Quote from "RAppel" »
Im sorry, but I dont understand. What does the berbs/WDs runtime has to do with the ability to teleport? If teleport works as in D2 then you could tele to the edge of screen. Will it take 8 secs or more to run the same distance? I dont think so
Ok, ya, so it only takes a 2-3 seconds to run to the edge of the screen. But that's still way slower than D2 with frw. Maybe it's nothing and maybe they will continue to have fhw in D3 and this point is moot. But with the current information shown I don't see how giving a mage type class an instant teleport with no cooldown or repercussions not messing with gameplay and/or pvp balance.
But if you go by what it is described like at wikipedia the telepportation has to be instat of near instant. So a long cooldown period would go against what teleportation is described as today.
Do you know what a cooldown is? Even with a cooldown teleport could still be instant. You're thinking about a cast time, and nobody in this thread has yet to mention adding a cast time onto teleport.
Personally, I hope there isn't teleport in D3, or if there is have it be a teleport with a cooldown. I just don't like the idea of a class that can skip content like in D2. But w/e, I don't really care. If I played a mage type class that would could teleport, I wouldn't use it to skip content and I wouldn't group with those that do. So, really, either way I really don't care.
Although, I don't think there is going to be a teleport as used in D2. In response to questions about other classes being able to cross gaps like the Barbarian did in the trailer, Blizz said they weren't sure and that it was more just to show off the Barbarian's class skill. Although they could have easily been holding back information until more classes are revealed.
Additionally, if you watched the gameplay trailer, the Barbarian and the Witch Doctor don't seem to run very fast at all. The animation looks as if they are running, but speed wise they might as well be walking in comparison to D2. It would be a little odd that one class has such a dramatic advantage over others as far as mobility is concerned, not to mention a clear imbalance in regards to pvp.
Yea, I'm scared too. You should get your eyes checked because the only resemblance is the blue/green glow of the dungeons. Other than that, nothing looks at all the same.
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I didn't like the fact that I had to research how to properly allocate stats, just in order to be effective past normal mode. I will admit, to do really well, a player should have to work at it in order to do well. But just to be able to compete fairly well in the 2nd difficulty mode? The previous system wasn't terribly noob friendly and you really had no way to rectify past mistakes with character creation.
Yes, having the ability to customize a character's stats added depth to the game, but that doesn't mean there will be no depth in this game. We don't fully know how many spells characters will have or how well spells will work in conjunction with other spells. And if you've looked at the new Rune System, there will be a lot of different ways to customize your character and make it unique. Some Runes will work better than other runes for certain spells and people will be combing runes to spells in varying and interesting ways, ways that you wouldn't think to work well. Maybe people will find rune combinations that mimic strange builds from D2, builds that are very unique, but maybe aren't as effective as cookie cutter builds, but are fun nonetheless.
I don't see this change as a bad change, personally, I like this change. It isn't lessening the depth of the game, but rather the focus of the game is changing.
O and they may make item requirements to be similar to WoW. All they have is a level requirement, with some items being class specific. Item bonuses determine what type of class the item is for, but you can still wear whatever you want. We may still see different builds because there may not be class specific requirements for every item. So you may see Barbarians who are wearing items that boost their spell power for spells that do actual magic damage instead of focusing on melee strength. You could very well see types of builds like "Singer" barbs and Melee sorcs.
In almost every RPG or game with a stat system, you have stats or attributes that you need, but you don't stop once you get to a certain point, you get as much of the desired stats as you can. You may min/max a bit, but you that doesn't mean you stop at some ridiculously low number. Yeah, it wasn't hard to get mana and life leech, but it was the fact that it was something you needed, but getting more was pointless. It scaled pretty badly.
If mana/life leech returns, it needs to scale much better.
K, good point. You're right. I must have blocked that from my memory or something, because I can't really remember it, lol.
Umm... no. Item design is part of an art direction. But yes, whether they will change it or not is still possible. While they have said that their current art direction and vision wont change, that doesn't mean that "minor" issues such as item design wont be tweaked or changed.
Although I do hope that they go... I'm going to die for this wont I? Nope not happening. I hope that they keep armor and weapons proportional, at least to a degree. Call me sexist or whatever, but I don't mind large over sized armor and weapons odd for males, but it looks funky on females. I hope they tone down the shoulder pads on the female barb specifically.
I would heartily disagree. Despite Jay Wilson stating in two recent articles that the design team tinkered around with different art designs and have finally come to rest on the current iteration, people still seem to have their panties in several bundles. People can't or wont just shut up and realize that this is how it's going to be.
We have two rather large threads Diablo 3 Art Direction No Going Back and Diablo 3 will kill Blizzard?, which despite the titles are pretty much just people bickering about the art direction. People aren't letting it go, people wont let it go, at least on this fan forum.
A side note/question. People tend to be rather inflammatory here and pretty immature, or at least some newcomers from the last couple weeks. Diii.net seems to be empty of that kind of crap. Do they have better, or should I say, more strict moderation? Or is that more just my imagination and I need to look around their forums some more?
Speak for yourself. I bought and played the first Warcraft: Orcs and Humans. I enjoyed the single player. I bought Warcraft 2 and Warcraft 2:Tides of Darkness. I loved the fact that there was a larger story element involved. I read the lore in the manual who knows how many times.
I bought and played Starcraft and Brood War and it was a few years after playing the game several times through single player until I starting playing on b.net. I loved b.net, but I also thoroughly enjoyed the single player experience. After having played multiplayer for several years and playing numerous types of awesome custom games, I still played single player. Why? Because the campaigns were very well done and I enjoyed it.
I played Diablo 2 and played it through a few times in single player before moving to b.net. I played b.net for several years, but not without some problems and discouragement with the setup and community.
I played Warcraft 3 for.... guess what? The single player. It wasn't for quite awhile that I moved onto b.net. Why? Because for awhile I was satisfied with the single player.
So... what have we learned here? Some people like playing single player. Some people initially buy a game just for the single player component. Some people are reluctant to playing online for numerous reasons. Just because you don't have those same reasons or that same reluctantly doesn't void their opinions or feelings.
No one here is asking for multiplayer to be done away with, just improved. So I don't know where the hell you are coming from. Who argues against something being improved?
That's what this whole thread has been about: some people asking for aspects of the online play to be improved and others, like you, telling them to shut up and sit down as if nothing at all is wrong with b.net and with no concept of being able to improve upon it.
Some people, like my brother, would rather just jump right into multiplayer. I, and others like me, aren't asking for my brother's and others' experience to be ruined. All we are doing is discussing viable ways for the experience to be improved upon, from the standpoint of people who did not find the online experience to be 100% enjoyable.
Although it's probably just what others here have mentioned.
No mental deficiencies here my good sir, just moderate to severe color deficiency thank you very much.
But no, it's usually not terrible. At times I couldn't tell right away if it was yellow or gold, but other than that I was fine playing D2. Granted, some games and pie charts suck because there are way too many colors that look the same, but that's besides the point.
Gold or purple I don't really care. Personally, if they do stay with gold for uniques, I hope the gold color is a bit more stark and bold. In D2 it seems to be kind of hazy and light, but that might just be my eyes.
So either they were not partied, the other characters were out of range of the Battle Cry, or some other reason I can't think of.
Yea, I think he does mean the fact that the Thousand Pounder lit up and moved/attacked faster. As you said, nothing else happened in the fight and the creation of the monster doesn't affect the fight in any way. Hopefully, there will be actual "dramatic" changes in boss fights. Granted, it was cool how he lit up and swung his axes around, but I wouldn't describe it as dramatic.
Also, because it wasn't in the OP and some people seem to be getting really excited about a loss of limbs.
So ya. It might not actually happen at this point. It was just the opinion/idea of a CM.
It's not really dervived from WoW, just a fairly common mechanic in RPGs and some Action Adventure games.
Eh, no. You're right. I just checked the gameplay trailer to see if it has a cooldown and I can't see anything that would suggest one for leap. He leaps pretty much right after finishing a leap and I can't see a grayed out area to suggest a cooldown. Charge does have seem to have a cooldown though.
I dunno really. I'm mostly just worried about online games turning into the same BS that was LoD. Constant Baal runs where a game would fall apart if there wasn't a sorc to tele to the worldstone keep.
Yea, but with Barbarian shouts everyone in the party gains just as much benefit as the Barbarian, although that is a moot point in regards to pvp. And yes, thrice is a word.
Smite is only good when combined with Crushing Blow and a Grief Runeword. So the main problem there isn't the spell itself, but rather bad implementation of items.
True, has to have corpses first and gotta have it at a high lvl.
Mostly, although a good Barb or Pally could take them down.
I dunno. After thinking about it and talking about this with you Rappel. I guess I don't object to the spell so much, but rather the spell as it was used in D2 and how the overall community saw it. Hardly anyone actually played through the game. I mean, I know that after you've played through a game a couple of times it gets boring. But what's the fun in just getting rushed to Act 5 and leeching from Baal runs to just do it all over again in NM and Hell mode?
O by the way. I don't mean in any way to implicate or insult you Rappel in that. I don't know how you play or what you do to have fun.
If teleport has a high mana cost that stays high where you can't just spam it over and over and over again. Sure I wouldn't mind it being in.
Side-ish topic: I hated mfing. I honest to god hope that Magic Find and MFing runs are no longer in the game. I mean, I mfed, I just hated it. When I did mf I did it on my necro, so I didn't feel slighted that sorcs were better at it. I just didn't like the concept of having to farm for gear in order to succeed in leveling. It's not like in some MMOs where you have to farm to get money and gear, because farming occurs for the most part in end game. I wouldn't mind having to kill Diablo or whoever is the last boss on Hell mode dozens or hundreds of times to get the best gear in the game. But I don't want to have to do that shit to level up.
Yes, yes it does. A cooldown means that there is a waiting period before you can cast the spell again. It has nothing to do with whether a spell instantly casts or not. So that still stands, teleport can still be a teleport per wikipedia definition and have a cooldown.
Well ya. Haven't you noticed that most of the Barb's skills like leap and the charge move had cooldowns already?
There's nothing wrong with superiority but having a flagrantly huge difference in power or ability is.
Ok, ya, so it only takes a 2-3 seconds to run to the edge of the screen. But that's still way slower than D2 with frw. Maybe it's nothing and maybe they will continue to have fhw in D3 and this point is moot. But with the current information shown I don't see how giving a mage type class an instant teleport with no cooldown or repercussions not messing with gameplay and/or pvp balance.
Do you know what a cooldown is? Even with a cooldown teleport could still be instant. You're thinking about a cast time, and nobody in this thread has yet to mention adding a cast time onto teleport.
Personally, I hope there isn't teleport in D3, or if there is have it be a teleport with a cooldown. I just don't like the idea of a class that can skip content like in D2. But w/e, I don't really care. If I played a mage type class that would could teleport, I wouldn't use it to skip content and I wouldn't group with those that do. So, really, either way I really don't care.
Although, I don't think there is going to be a teleport as used in D2. In response to questions about other classes being able to cross gaps like the Barbarian did in the trailer, Blizz said they weren't sure and that it was more just to show off the Barbarian's class skill. Although they could have easily been holding back information until more classes are revealed.
Additionally, if you watched the gameplay trailer, the Barbarian and the Witch Doctor don't seem to run very fast at all. The animation looks as if they are running, but speed wise they might as well be walking in comparison to D2. It would be a little odd that one class has such a dramatic advantage over others as far as mobility is concerned, not to mention a clear imbalance in regards to pvp.