I have poison from zuni's boots and lightning from the ring. They stack.
I've confirmed this by using a damage calculator online with 12% elemental plugged in (it doesn't ask which type) and my damage was the same as in game, so the game must be using the combined total.
If the money is really burning a hole in your pocket, I think SOJs are kind of underrated for what they give, and I don't think the acid cloud one is wildly popular, but I haven't looked at them in a while.
Couldn't get your profile to work so I have no idea what you actually have.
I'm trying to decide if this is actually relevant. Is the reason people aren't using bad medicine because it's hard to keep up?
WD has a million good poison attacks.
Azri you have very high damage and very low all resist. A skorn with LS / LOH is not going to solve that problem. If you're running around with 30K life and 100K damage, reflect packs are gonna cause a problem, and by problem I mean you have to use spirit walk, almost kill them, possibly wait 10 seconds for spirit walk to come off cooldown and then kill them.
Emberos is providing some sweet information from his experience with the two types of regen on skorn, but keep in mind he has almost twice the life pool you do.
My advice to everyone in this thread is to not let that gold burn a hole in your pocket and wait until Tuesday to re-evaluate what you want to do, because-
1. The patch will change your farming experience / goals.
2. EVERYTHING is going to drop in price drastically over the next month or so.
You could try to regear for 2H plus pickupradius, but like you said, it's going to be expensive and you'll probably lose gold for the same amount of damage output, possibly even less.
TotDeep should give you all the pickup radius you need at this point in the game. Just stand right next to the trash as you're killing it - you're going to blow it up in a couple of casts anyway. Once 1.05 comes out and you're cranking Monster Power you might want to kill from slightly farther back, but I'm not even sure that's true.
Follow the build exactly as I posted it. Don't try to squeeze in pierce the veil. Once you start picking up health globes your damage is going to outpace monster health by quite a bit anyway. If you're really having trouble with mana you could change spirit walk rune Jaunt to Honored Guest. You'll lose 1 second on the duration, but at that point if you're still having mana problems you must be doing something wrong.
Lastly 2H vs. 1H is pretty close to a wash anyway IMO. The only reason I went skorn in the first place was to try to maximize %elemental damage on things like Zuni's boots, SOJ, and Tal Rasha's ammy. Before the %damage only applied to physical and only to your minimum damage (skorn wins out big on both). With the patch it's going to take average damage between min and max, so echoing fury is going to be just as good as far as %elemental damage goes.
Friended you in game in case you want to ask more questions.
You're pretty swell suited to run the classic farming build since you have thing of the deep for 20 yards of pickup radius (a little more is even preferred).
You can switch out splinters for the primary of your choice. FIrebomb / Flashfire is also extremely competitive.
I encourage you to also at least try Acid Cloud / Acid Rain rune instead of zombie bears as the radius is huge and the damage is more instantaneous.
The zombie dogs and gargantuan can also be swapped out to whatever you want, if you feel you don't need them to tank for you. Personally I've had a lot of fun with Spirit barrage / Manitou, or even subbing gargantuan for sacrifice / provoke the pack.
The other skills are basically set in stone though. Play the build for a while (make sure you are killing stuff within your 20 yard pickup radius) and it'll all make sense. Grave Injustice / Gruesome Feast are the big combo everything is operating on. Pop your character sheet open every now and then and watch your DPS jump 50K with Gruesome Feast stacks.
Stop posting shit like this is 'op'. it isnt! its a VERY expensive and unique build(Helm and offhand not so much, the ring with 7 seconds is like 100 mill plus). But as you can see its extremely gear dependent. Blizzard would be fools to nerf this, wd's deserve some time in the sun.
Alright, I've been holding my tongue on this debate for a while as it's basically pointless speculation, but it might be worth talking about if people really start gearing for this build - there are a few things to consider.
1. In PvE the build is completely fine and nothing will likely be changed.
2. In PvP the build is overpowered, however there are some easy fixes to bring it in line.
On PvP: The damage is fine, the health regen / sustain is broken.
For the Master heal amount is completely out of control with zero cooldown. 24K spammable heal - attached to a 60% chance to spawn a healthglobe for your entire team with Final gift. Nothing in the game comes close to that amount of regen.
I imagine blizzard won't allow Final Gift to function in the arena setting. This would probably be the best outcome for WD since you could still use the "healer" build in your pve runs.
For the Masters heal amount could also be reduced and I think the skill could function fine.
The argument of "it's expensive!" really only works in a PvE setting. If people invest a ton in certain gear, I'm sure blizzard is fine with allowing them to do powerful things. In PvP, when you're talking about a constant stream of healthglobes while you health 24K hp and deal 1100% aoe damage with no cooldown, a melee class basically has no chance. When someone has no option to engage you, it doesn't matter how much gold you spent on your gear, blizzard is not going to allow that.
Like I said the build is close to balanced in PvP, so it will most likely still function. Just don't count on the current level of health regen.
I think grave injustice / horrify would be better than burning dogs. The cooldown reduction from GI is sweet in a build where you want to be firing off CC all the time. Maybe drop Jungle Fort (getting weaker next patch and you really don't have to be in close for this build, just spam toads from far away and carpet the area).
Also, it's worth mentioning the legendary helm "The Grin Reaper" is quite insane in a build like this. 3 skeletons for extra interference, that will all cast your snare for you. I don't think it's very expensive either.
That said, whatever the efficiency, I'm kind of bleh on just mindlessly running through with no challenge. At some point, the game being fun to play should actually trump efficiency - else why are we even playing, and even MP3 borders on being mindless for me right now. I've actually been thinking of bumping up to MP4 for farming even though I know that will be less efficient -- just so I have to pay attention -- at least a little :).
Yeah I'm thinking 4 for the exact same reason - it still feels like I'm interacting with the things on my screen.
That said, it might be fun to try to brew up a complete autopilot build.
Here's my attempt- http://us.battle.net...YdgT!YgW!bcYYca
assuming 30K thorns damage - you'd probably only be refreshing manitou / lingering spirit if your damage is high enough, with the occasional locust cast.
Legendaries to possibly include:
Firewalkers
Manajuma's set
Maximus for your follower
Band of Hollow Whispers
Mostly what Luizdeh / Kit said - hopefully you can damage them enough during spirit walk that by the time you come out and start taking damage there are health globes everywhere.
I also have a decent 500 LOH amulet I swap to if the above plan isn't going well.
My thoughts so far-
(Profile is in my signature for gear frame of reference)
-Pile on radius is still a bit small. Maybe with practice and zero CD you could learn to use it, but I doubt it would become optimal. It's zombies doing a highropes wrestling dive, so I'm happy the skill is at least in a usable state, because the animation is still probably my favorite in the game.
-I will probably be playing at Monster Level 4 with my current gear. I switched from acid cloud to bears to make the jump to ML5 - kill speed while using bears was about the same, but if I ever ran OOM the damage felt like it came to a halt. Given - I'm not very familiar with bears so was maybe playing badly, but I think having your soul harvest / vengeful spirit doing significant damage to white mobs is a good benchmark for what ML you should play at.
-Monster health scales very hard with ML but monster damage not so much. As you can see my defensive stats are pretty terrible, but even at ML 5, where health started to become a problem in kill speed, damage was still quite manageable.
-you can see gruesome feast stacks. it basically starts a timer when the most recent stack was acquired, but stacks still fall off in order they were picked up (a new health globe doesn't refresh the timer on all) same as before.
-I don't have a fast attack speed (Skorn), but i had about 3 fetishes around me with the new fetish sycophants. Wouldn't be surprised if dagger users could pull 4-5 easy.
-Mass Confusion is fun. I'm not sure if it's really going to earn a place on the bar but we'll see. While it's great CCing a pack for 9 seconds, they don't seem to do massive damage to each other the way I hoped, and it might be better to just pack more damage yourself (Manitou or something instead).
-The new range on well of souls is kinda cool, but will still probably not be used because 1) The skill is so F-ing floaty and slow I don't know anyone who has the patience for it 2) For it's mana cost it still gets completely outclassed by other skills. If you can find a way to get rush of essence into your build you could use it as a primary, but those passive slots are pretty well spoken for currently.
-Overall CC changes are interesting. Hex is an actual eternity, although I never had much fun with that skill, even when it was good. Could possibly have some use with Uber Bosses? Addling toads duration still isn't long enough to warrant using frog pathing as a primary.
-I opened a resplendent chest while 5 stacked and got 4 rares.
-Drop rates are insane - mostly 60+ items now. If you thought the rare market was flooded already...
-Overall quality of loot seems about the same. Even at ML 5 I wouldn't say there was a "noticeable" difference, although I had way more MF than I do live in 1.04, so I'm sure I was getting some extra affixes here and there.
Probably won't spend too much more time on the PTR.
Any questions? Anything I forgot to mention or needs more testing?
Ruppgu is spot on. The MF gains aren't really significant enough to justify spending anything above 20 seconds on an elite pack.
I think Blizzard really wants the ML addition to be there to allow greater flexibility for the way people play, not to create a new endgame at ML10.
The outlying people will benefit most from the ML changes - those struggling in Act 1 with no money and those with 200K dps who are one-shotting everything.
For everyone else you might bump the ML up slightly, or use it to farm something other than act 3 for a change (if Act1ML8 = Act3ML3 or something like that). I'd be excited just for the change in variety.
Oh, almost forgot leveling alts faster. This system is truly sweet.
Going to be getting on the PTR as soon as it's up - hopefully Monday.
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I've confirmed this by using a damage calculator online with 12% elemental plugged in (it doesn't ask which type) and my damage was the same as in game, so the game must be using the combined total.
If the money is really burning a hole in your pocket, I think SOJs are kind of underrated for what they give, and I don't think the acid cloud one is wildly popular, but I haven't looked at them in a while.
Couldn't get your profile to work so I have no idea what you actually have.
WD has a million good poison attacks.
Emberos is providing some sweet information from his experience with the two types of regen on skorn, but keep in mind he has almost twice the life pool you do.
My advice to everyone in this thread is to not let that gold burn a hole in your pocket and wait until Tuesday to re-evaluate what you want to do, because-
1. The patch will change your farming experience / goals.
2. EVERYTHING is going to drop in price drastically over the next month or so.
TotDeep should give you all the pickup radius you need at this point in the game. Just stand right next to the trash as you're killing it - you're going to blow it up in a couple of casts anyway. Once 1.05 comes out and you're cranking Monster Power you might want to kill from slightly farther back, but I'm not even sure that's true.
Follow the build exactly as I posted it. Don't try to squeeze in pierce the veil. Once you start picking up health globes your damage is going to outpace monster health by quite a bit anyway. If you're really having trouble with mana you could change spirit walk rune Jaunt to Honored Guest. You'll lose 1 second on the duration, but at that point if you're still having mana problems you must be doing something wrong.
Lastly 2H vs. 1H is pretty close to a wash anyway IMO. The only reason I went skorn in the first place was to try to maximize %elemental damage on things like Zuni's boots, SOJ, and Tal Rasha's ammy. Before the %damage only applied to physical and only to your minimum damage (skorn wins out big on both). With the patch it's going to take average damage between min and max, so echoing fury is going to be just as good as far as %elemental damage goes.
Friended you in game in case you want to ask more questions.
It's basically this-
http://us.battle.net...UdYT!YTe!acacca
You can switch out splinters for the primary of your choice. FIrebomb / Flashfire is also extremely competitive.
I encourage you to also at least try Acid Cloud / Acid Rain rune instead of zombie bears as the radius is huge and the damage is more instantaneous.
The zombie dogs and gargantuan can also be swapped out to whatever you want, if you feel you don't need them to tank for you. Personally I've had a lot of fun with Spirit barrage / Manitou, or even subbing gargantuan for sacrifice / provoke the pack.
The other skills are basically set in stone though. Play the build for a while (make sure you are killing stuff within your 20 yard pickup radius) and it'll all make sense. Grave Injustice / Gruesome Feast are the big combo everything is operating on. Pop your character sheet open every now and then and watch your DPS jump 50K with Gruesome Feast stacks.
Discussion on the build can be found here -
http://www.diablofans.com/topic/68713-spirit-bears-an-end-game-farming-build/
and credit to Ruppgu
Alright, I've been holding my tongue on this debate for a while as it's basically pointless speculation, but it might be worth talking about if people really start gearing for this build - there are a few things to consider.
1. In PvE the build is completely fine and nothing will likely be changed.
2. In PvP the build is overpowered, however there are some easy fixes to bring it in line.
On PvP: The damage is fine, the health regen / sustain is broken.
For the Master heal amount is completely out of control with zero cooldown. 24K spammable heal - attached to a 60% chance to spawn a healthglobe for your entire team with Final gift. Nothing in the game comes close to that amount of regen.
I imagine blizzard won't allow Final Gift to function in the arena setting. This would probably be the best outcome for WD since you could still use the "healer" build in your pve runs.
For the Masters heal amount could also be reduced and I think the skill could function fine.
The argument of "it's expensive!" really only works in a PvE setting. If people invest a ton in certain gear, I'm sure blizzard is fine with allowing them to do powerful things. In PvP, when you're talking about a constant stream of healthglobes while you health 24K hp and deal 1100% aoe damage with no cooldown, a melee class basically has no chance. When someone has no option to engage you, it doesn't matter how much gold you spent on your gear, blizzard is not going to allow that.
Like I said the build is close to balanced in PvP, so it will most likely still function. Just don't count on the current level of health regen.
Also, it's worth mentioning the legendary helm "The Grin Reaper" is quite insane in a build like this. 3 skeletons for extra interference, that will all cast your snare for you. I don't think it's very expensive either.
Yeah I'm thinking 4 for the exact same reason - it still feels like I'm interacting with the things on my screen.
That said, it might be fun to try to brew up a complete autopilot build.
Here's my attempt- http://us.battle.net...YdgT!YgW!bcYYca
assuming 30K thorns damage - you'd probably only be refreshing manitou / lingering spirit if your damage is high enough, with the occasional locust cast.
Legendaries to possibly include:
Firewalkers
Manajuma's set
Maximus for your follower
Band of Hollow Whispers
I also have a decent 500 LOH amulet I swap to if the above plan isn't going well.
Unless I'm missing something.
(Profile is in my signature for gear frame of reference)
-Pile on radius is still a bit small. Maybe with practice and zero CD you could learn to use it, but I doubt it would become optimal. It's zombies doing a highropes wrestling dive, so I'm happy the skill is at least in a usable state, because the animation is still probably my favorite in the game.
-I will probably be playing at Monster Level 4 with my current gear. I switched from acid cloud to bears to make the jump to ML5 - kill speed while using bears was about the same, but if I ever ran OOM the damage felt like it came to a halt. Given - I'm not very familiar with bears so was maybe playing badly, but I think having your soul harvest / vengeful spirit doing significant damage to white mobs is a good benchmark for what ML you should play at.
-Monster health scales very hard with ML but monster damage not so much. As you can see my defensive stats are pretty terrible, but even at ML 5, where health started to become a problem in kill speed, damage was still quite manageable.
-you can see gruesome feast stacks. it basically starts a timer when the most recent stack was acquired, but stacks still fall off in order they were picked up (a new health globe doesn't refresh the timer on all) same as before.
-I don't have a fast attack speed (Skorn), but i had about 3 fetishes around me with the new fetish sycophants. Wouldn't be surprised if dagger users could pull 4-5 easy.
-Mass Confusion is fun. I'm not sure if it's really going to earn a place on the bar but we'll see. While it's great CCing a pack for 9 seconds, they don't seem to do massive damage to each other the way I hoped, and it might be better to just pack more damage yourself (Manitou or something instead).
-The new range on well of souls is kinda cool, but will still probably not be used because 1) The skill is so F-ing floaty and slow I don't know anyone who has the patience for it 2) For it's mana cost it still gets completely outclassed by other skills. If you can find a way to get rush of essence into your build you could use it as a primary, but those passive slots are pretty well spoken for currently.
-Overall CC changes are interesting. Hex is an actual eternity, although I never had much fun with that skill, even when it was good. Could possibly have some use with Uber Bosses? Addling toads duration still isn't long enough to warrant using frog pathing as a primary.
-I opened a resplendent chest while 5 stacked and got 4 rares.
-Drop rates are insane - mostly 60+ items now. If you thought the rare market was flooded already...
-Overall quality of loot seems about the same. Even at ML 5 I wouldn't say there was a "noticeable" difference, although I had way more MF than I do live in 1.04, so I'm sure I was getting some extra affixes here and there.
Probably won't spend too much more time on the PTR.
Any questions? Anything I forgot to mention or needs more testing?
I think Blizzard really wants the ML addition to be there to allow greater flexibility for the way people play, not to create a new endgame at ML10.
The outlying people will benefit most from the ML changes - those struggling in Act 1 with no money and those with 200K dps who are one-shotting everything.
For everyone else you might bump the ML up slightly, or use it to farm something other than act 3 for a change (if Act1ML8 = Act3ML3 or something like that). I'd be excited just for the change in variety.
Oh, almost forgot leveling alts faster. This system is truly sweet.
Going to be getting on the PTR as soon as it's up - hopefully Monday.