Chest, Helm, and pants to me. Your belt has res all and plus life so it's a good EHP starter belt.
Helm - If you want dps and don't care about EHP you can pick up a socketed andariel's and get 8/9IAS and 4.5 crit with 160int. Should be a good dps upgrade. OR if you want sustainability, go with a socketed Storm Crow. You'll get LOH and APOC which won't do a ton since you're using disentigrate so it doesnt work with APOC very well but it will give you something.
Chest- Look for an item like this: 100 int / 100 vit / res all 65+ / 2 or 3 sockets. You'll gain some massive EHP that way. you'll lose some dps, but it'll be a heavy survivability upgrade.
Legs - Pretty much the same: 100 int / 100 vit / res all 65+ / 1 or 2 sockets. Same case as you'll lose a little int for a lot of survivability.
What most people do at lower level before they can get tal rasha's and zuni's and all the great legendaries is go for ehp on Chest, Belt, Pants, and boots. Then rock DPS on all the other stats. (Wrists go both ways cause you can get a good pair of strongarm bracers for cheap). So aim for high EHP in those slots, and dps in the others.
Then once you get more gold you can work on getting some dps into those slots by getting like a Tal Rasha's Chest, or a 150 int chest /legs, etc.
This is absolute blashpemy. Wand and sword can both roll exact same +DMG stats. This is apparent even if you skip any 'possibilities' just looking at the reality:
The swords and wands are on par, while daggers not being able to roll that +dmg modifier is quite obvious with them losing out nearly 200 top DPS on the highest end range. What i stated in my post is that IF a dagger rolls the same DPS - then the dagger is going to be a clear winner, as for using a sword vs wand - makes absolutely no difference since both can roll exact same +dmg modifiers and have exact same attack speed.
Also, the sword you are using in your setup is not possible:
+50% dmg = roll 1
+min damage = roll 2
+max damage = roll 3
+AIS = roll 4
+socket = roll 5
+100 CD = roll 6
+200 INT = roll 7
Again if you had actually read our thread, or looked at post #41 in this thread you would see that the min/max damage is one roll. Example if you're to lazy to find it: http://www.d3lexicon.com/affix/min-max-dam-13-fast-104
one roll. So there's that.
Then there's the fact that Sword/Wands dps top end is higher than dagger. I think I've finally gotten you to agree to that one. Now you have to realize that wands always roll the +max arcane. This makes it so they have 5 rollable props. Example to prove this is the top wand on your list: http://www.diablopro...m/item/15769185 if min/max isn't combined, then that item has 7 props. So you can see for sure there that min/max has a combine roll on some of the top items. Not seperate.
You are right that Zuni boots are going to provide more DPS, i've updated the table to show that. Your initial statement was vague implying nothing was optimized for DPS when only the boots were missing, could have simply pointed that out.
Well given that you quoted me saying the boots weren't top dps I'd assume that'd you'd realize it had something to do with the boots, but allright, you were also using a 98% crit weapon not 100%. It wasn't isolated to one thing. All I had said was look over our list, we had already done the same thing, and again with the rudeness, i'm beginning to realize you're not worth helping.
I quite clearly expressed that the DPS here is unbuffed and quite clearly expressed that buffed DPS is really not a good comparison for any purposes. Unbuffed DPS is the real comparison, hence anywhere you go people post / talk / compare / diabloprogress.com all use unbuffed DPS.
Seeing a pure buffed DPS does not really make any sense, even if you take into account FN, etc, for the simple fact that if you really want to go that way - then you should be looking for tDPS instead of just sheet DPS buffed that way. tDPS will have to include simulation of the actual skill usage etc. Hence the whole idea of using buffed DPS does not make any sense.
See, you are combining two different things. I said here's my tool and you can use it if you want. You said it's obscene to say that tool is more tuned to wizards. Just cause you do not need the features, does not mean something isn't tailored for specifics with those tools.
Example: A school creates a wheel chair ramp by their stairs and a handicap accessible elevator. This allows people in wheel chairs to access extra features. However, you never use it cause you don't need to. Does this mean that the school didn't tailor things towards handicap usage? No, they did, even if you never use that feature.
I said it has tools for figuring out more detailed information about wizard spells. That has nothing to do with what you're doing, I said it was what WE used. It worked for what WE did. I don't care if you use a spreadsheet, or a piece of paper and a pencil, but saying it's obscene for me saying the tool was beneficial for what WE were doing makes no sense. I understand you did yours without Buffs. That's great. The items are still going to be the same more than likely.
I'm truly sorry that I came in here to help with things we had already worked out. You can tell from my first posts I was genuinely trying to help with something we worked on, on a different forum. It seems you won't even begin to read the thoughts we went through when creating ours and are just here to attack me. Since we've already completed ours and you won't take any help from looking at what we did there is no more point for me to post in this thread as it'll just be false accusations of being wrong and trying to attack a project that me and a lot of people worked hard on (both our top dps and my dpsCalc tool). Unless you directly want a response from me I won't cloud up your thread anymore.
The weapon is a huge difference. A 1h Sword with IAS will always be the top DPS dealer. Sword > Dagger > Wand for ultimate dps. So using a Wand in your diagram is a huge loss of possible DPS.
Weapon base attack speed scales the final DPS via +average damage modifiers on rings / amulets, etc. There is no way a 1.4 sword is going to beat a 1.5 base dagger given the same weapon DPS. (Unless the swords can, for some reason, roll a higher DPS than a dagger, which i am not aware of. I could be wrong and swords could roll higher damage ranges - i am not able to find the exact +min/min damages for swords vs daggers. Which is somewhat supported by the data provided from the actual existing items on diabloprogress.com swords / maces / spears / axes seem to go up to 1.4k while daggers highest are 1.2k O.o)
In fact it doesn't matter what the item is called, it could be called a 'swift shovel', as long as it has 1.4 attack base attack speed and same DPS the resulting DPS of the character is going to be the same. Apologies, but your argument here is invalid.
Without the buffs there is still a big difference. The difference comes in things like boots not being max dps provided. And other small things where the most dps isn't pulled out of all slots. Ours however isn't taking in as much of an effort for EHP, we just picked max stats after all dps stats were rolled. The EHP is still huge, but after 500k isn't a major gain where more DPS after 500k is, so that's why we chose to maximize DPS stats.
My numbers are skewed towards DPS with every item having maximum DPS rolls, resulting EHP is the result of the extra rolls on each item. Hence your argument here is completely invalid.
As for D3UP, it is a great tool - no arguments there. However, it is missing a lot of things, and some of the calculations are off by slight amounts. It rounds in some places, and doesn't in others. It also isn't very easy to do new gearing compared to other tools. You may like D3Up, and that's fine. However, the one we have is specifically tailored for wizards, tested by wizards, and allows for much more precise information for wizards. Everything that the d3up does, the dpsCalc does plus much more for wizards. however, it's a personal thing. Some people like to use Excel, that's their choice, doesn't make it wrong however.
Lets begin by saying that so far i have used D3UP.com for 3 characters, the resulting numbers of DPS from d3up.com are exact to the decimal when compared to the ingame DPS shown in the character sheet. I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about with "some of the calculations are off by slight amounts".
Secondly - you really cannot say that this tool is "specialized for wizards". This is absolutely obscene statement. Every class in the game scales the unbuffed DPS on the character sheet exactly the same, be it monk, WD, barb, wizard or DH. The benefits of CD, CC, primary stat, etc are exactly the same for every class. What makes the difference is the buffs that particular class has, for example a barb is always going to be the higher DPS after passives, simply because noone else has a total of 15% CC and 50% CD added from passives with CC scaling like mad on higher DPS levels.
In this thread we are not talking about the final character DPS with skills, we are not interested in that here, we are talking about pure raw DPS of gear setup from the character without using passives or any buffs. These are the reasons why the main source of comparison of difference characters today is the UNBUFFED DPS. That allows for a comparison between any class.
I'm sorry, but the entire paragraph makes absolutely no sense.
No personal feelings here, just facts. The amount of misinformation going around is really mind boggling.
Wow, such rudeness in response, but whatever, i'll state my case either way.
1.) Sword have the highest total DPS that can roll, so yes, you are wrong. If you had cared to look through the thread that I had posted that you're arguing with, we even go over that subject (i mean it's only 3 pages, is it really that hard?).
2.) In your top DPS build you are using Ice Walkers. Ice Walkers are absolutely no where near top DPS. However, they are great EHP. Zunimassi's when you're using a Black Weapon is a much higher dmg dealer. That was one case I even mentioned but you failed to answer that and just said you're right i'm wrong? Doesn't make sense.
3.) Again if you had read the thread I linked instead of coming off as a jackas, you would have realized that we did buffed DPS. So the ability to add buffs was nice. Guess what? The tool lets you add any buff, and gives you a lot of passive buffs that other calcs don't (frost nova for example). I linked where we had already done what you are doing, a site where we had done it (that in essence isn't any different then yours only it's more tailored directly to wizards and not to all classes). Your rude attitude for my suggestion to read another thread is quite OBSCENE as you so eloquently said.
I said the tool was more catered to wizards as it allow buffs other tools do not. (Can you compare MW vs MW w/ Force Weapn vs Familiar w/ Sparkflint easily? No?) Just cause your specific example where you don't need buffs, doesn't require the extra features of a tool doesn't make it "obscene" for me to say having those features makes it more specific towards wizards.
Edit: My point for posting in this thread was to say "Here, we did this over on B.net, see if you can build on it and find something we didn't, this is what we used, as it was more tailored to what we were doing (buffed dps)". Seems like the help wasn't wanted even though you said to post if you had ideas of things you were missing (which you were a bunch).
I've checked all the items and they look fine, the DPS difference is contributed to 2 factors:
1) you are using the very BIS weapon, i am using the highest ranked weapon on diabloprogress (imo makes it slightly more realistic)
2) you are using 'glass cannon, pinpoint barrier, force weapon, sparkflint, scoundrel, 100 paragon' i am providing a table of UNBUFFED DPS at a 100 paragon.
These 2 combined provide the difference. One thing to note about amulet in your setup though: the damage range is not maximum - you are using only 33-66, which is ilvl 62 not the current ilvl 63.
Overall, no offense to all the other guys that put the effort into making various calculators but there really is no reason to use any calculator other than http://d3up.com they are 100% accurate to the decimal in the calculations of DPS / EHP, etc. It scans your profile and loads all the items in a second instead of you having to type each item one by one, it also offers a small client tool which scans the tooltip of items ingame (yes it is safe, been using it for months along with many others) and it does 2 things - loads the item into your profile + gives you the accurate changes to the stats if you equip that item, the data, once again is accurate to the decimal. On top of it all - you can have multiple builds which are all stored online not only for you to see but others as well. Quite frankly, personally, i do not trust any other calculator simply because i KNOW for sure that this one is updated for any changes within a few hours.
Basically, unless i'm mistaken with some rolls on items, still (please do let me know if you see something), this should give a very clear picture of best possible gearing setups (in terms of maximizing DPS)
The weapon is a huge difference. A 1h Sword with IAS will always be the top DPS dealer. Sword > Dagger > Wand for ultimate dps. So using a Wand in your diagram is a huge loss of possible DPS.
Without the buffs there is still a big difference. The difference comes in things like boots not being max dps provided. And other small things where the most dps isn't pulled out of all slots. Ours however isn't taking in as much of an effort for EHP, we just picked max stats after all dps stats were rolled. The EHP is still huge, but after 500k isn't a major gain where more DPS after 500k is, so that's why we chose to maximize DPS stats.
As for D3UP, it is a great tool - no arguments there. However, it is missing a lot of things, and some of the calculations are off by slight amounts. It rounds in some places, and doesn't in others. It also isn't very easy to do new gearing compared to other tools. You may like D3Up, and that's fine. However, the one we have is specifically tailored for wizards, tested by wizards, and allows for much more precise information for wizards. Everything that the d3up does, the dpsCalc does plus much more for wizards. however, it's a personal thing. Some people like to use Excel, that's their choice, doesn't make it wrong however.
On the D3 Forums we did a BIS with perfect rolls and calculated the highest DPS achieved with that gear. With buffs we got up to 1.3million. If you want to check it out it's here:
That is including buffs and paragon. Sounds strange that it's more than doubled just because of that. I just briefly skimmed the tread, did you actually put this in d3up.com or any other damage calculator/sheet as well and could share this? Not to say that anything you mentioned in that thread is wrong, just curious to figure out why the difference is so huge.
It's a more specialized towards wizard one that most people on the D3 forums use.
If you want to go ahead and put them in you can recreate the same gear. I'm thinking the difference is you're using BIS of gear that exists on Diablo progress, where we are using the actual BIS gear (max rolls for every item prop).
On the D3 Forums we did a BIS with perfect rolls and calculated the highest DPS achieved with that gear. With buffs we got up to 1.3million. If you want to check it out it's here:
New version about to be released. It adds a checkbox for dodge (and block, but it's not functional yet). Also adds an item by item breakdown of the EHP and DPS of the item. (EHP is still in the works). Check out the new version before it's released! (Some items are not complete)
Nope, This is just your base Dmg reduction.
Ie:
Armor taken into account
Res All taken into account
Class taken into account
Dodge taken into account
Nothing else. There however, is an extra column for Elite Dmg Reduction. I may add extra columns for ranged and melee, but there hasn't been much request for it on the other thread on the D3 forums.
"Weapon IaS is being imported into the "Bonus Attack Percent:" box, not sure if it's being calculated correctly or not."
Yeah, that is IAS, i just have funny wording, i should fix that.
As for the region not saving, i can update that too! Thanks for that.
Yeah, the orignal load uses the API so it has the exact decimal of the dmg.
As for the EHP values, it seems kind of silly for people not to want dodge, as it's not like you can turn dodge off. I'm not sure why other calculators are showing EHP without dodge as it's very misleading, but so far everyone who has asked why mine was higher has ended up agreeing that EHP should include dodge due to the fact that you can't remove it / turn it off.
i'm not sure how you got 100*1.35=99.9 or 200*1.35=199.98 cause both of those are wrong,
but either way, the way blizzard does rounding it is actually not needed to do that as they do their rounding prior to Attacks per Second multiplication.
I haven't tried it out yet but at a glance, I see you haven't included a box for bonus damage% on a weapon. While it's not completely needed, it can make your results more accurate, especially now that the in game damage number seems to correctly reflect that value. If you need any help using that affix, you can find the formula in my spreadsheet.
This number actually isn't needed at all. Using physical dmg/elemental damage and total damage, you can find out all you need to know to get DPS values and EHP values. Since the Dmg % is just considered black dmg.
Edit: However, thanks, I guess I could add it in, I just didn't see the need to as it provides no difference to the overall scheme of things. And edit again where i saw that you said it's not needed too sorry
Hey all,
I'm a programmer have done a lot of Blizzard calcualtors. I did a CTC and a Haste Breakpoint calculator for WOW and have been working on a DPS/ EHP Calc for D3 that will do both at once and give some nice information breakdowns. I think I have finished Wizard section of it, including talents. I was wondering if anyone would mind testing it out. It has been updated for 1.0.5 so EHP will be lower than you saw before, and monster levels are 63 automatically so that will lower your EHP slightly too. Check it out let me know if you have any C&C, anything is helpful.
Instructions for use:
Type in your battle tag, hit load heroes.
Select your hero and click Submit Hero.
You will now see breakdowns of your DPS and EHP.
The benefits of this over other calculators:
You can compare multiple items at once.
You can see EHP and DPS increases at once.
You can view non-regular buffs.
Breakdowns that aren't on most sites.
Helm - If you want dps and don't care about EHP you can pick up a socketed andariel's and get 8/9IAS and 4.5 crit with 160int. Should be a good dps upgrade. OR if you want sustainability, go with a socketed Storm Crow. You'll get LOH and APOC which won't do a ton since you're using disentigrate so it doesnt work with APOC very well but it will give you something.
Chest- Look for an item like this: 100 int / 100 vit / res all 65+ / 2 or 3 sockets. You'll gain some massive EHP that way. you'll lose some dps, but it'll be a heavy survivability upgrade.
Legs - Pretty much the same: 100 int / 100 vit / res all 65+ / 1 or 2 sockets. Same case as you'll lose a little int for a lot of survivability.
What most people do at lower level before they can get tal rasha's and zuni's and all the great legendaries is go for ehp on Chest, Belt, Pants, and boots. Then rock DPS on all the other stats. (Wrists go both ways cause you can get a good pair of strongarm bracers for cheap). So aim for high EHP in those slots, and dps in the others.
Then once you get more gold you can work on getting some dps into those slots by getting like a Tal Rasha's Chest, or a 150 int chest /legs, etc.
Again if you had actually read our thread, or looked at post #41 in this thread you would see that the min/max damage is one roll. Example if you're to lazy to find it: http://www.d3lexicon.com/affix/min-max-dam-13-fast-104
one roll. So there's that.
Then there's the fact that Sword/Wands dps top end is higher than dagger. I think I've finally gotten you to agree to that one. Now you have to realize that wands always roll the +max arcane. This makes it so they have 5 rollable props. Example to prove this is the top wand on your list: http://www.diablopro...m/item/15769185 if min/max isn't combined, then that item has 7 props. So you can see for sure there that min/max has a combine roll on some of the top items. Not seperate.
Well given that you quoted me saying the boots weren't top dps I'd assume that'd you'd realize it had something to do with the boots, but allright, you were also using a 98% crit weapon not 100%. It wasn't isolated to one thing. All I had said was look over our list, we had already done the same thing, and again with the rudeness, i'm beginning to realize you're not worth helping.
See, you are combining two different things. I said here's my tool and you can use it if you want. You said it's obscene to say that tool is more tuned to wizards. Just cause you do not need the features, does not mean something isn't tailored for specifics with those tools.
Example: A school creates a wheel chair ramp by their stairs and a handicap accessible elevator. This allows people in wheel chairs to access extra features. However, you never use it cause you don't need to. Does this mean that the school didn't tailor things towards handicap usage? No, they did, even if you never use that feature.
I said it has tools for figuring out more detailed information about wizard spells. That has nothing to do with what you're doing, I said it was what WE used. It worked for what WE did. I don't care if you use a spreadsheet, or a piece of paper and a pencil, but saying it's obscene for me saying the tool was beneficial for what WE were doing makes no sense. I understand you did yours without Buffs. That's great. The items are still going to be the same more than likely.
I'm truly sorry that I came in here to help with things we had already worked out. You can tell from my first posts I was genuinely trying to help with something we worked on, on a different forum. It seems you won't even begin to read the thoughts we went through when creating ours and are just here to attack me. Since we've already completed ours and you won't take any help from looking at what we did there is no more point for me to post in this thread as it'll just be false accusations of being wrong and trying to attack a project that me and a lot of people worked hard on (both our top dps and my dpsCalc tool). Unless you directly want a response from me I won't cloud up your thread anymore.
Wow, such rudeness in response, but whatever, i'll state my case either way.
1.) Sword have the highest total DPS that can roll, so yes, you are wrong. If you had cared to look through the thread that I had posted that you're arguing with, we even go over that subject (i mean it's only 3 pages, is it really that hard?).
2.) In your top DPS build you are using Ice Walkers. Ice Walkers are absolutely no where near top DPS. However, they are great EHP. Zunimassi's when you're using a Black Weapon is a much higher dmg dealer. That was one case I even mentioned but you failed to answer that and just said you're right i'm wrong? Doesn't make sense.
3.) Again if you had read the thread I linked instead of coming off as a jackas, you would have realized that we did buffed DPS. So the ability to add buffs was nice. Guess what? The tool lets you add any buff, and gives you a lot of passive buffs that other calcs don't (frost nova for example). I linked where we had already done what you are doing, a site where we had done it (that in essence isn't any different then yours only it's more tailored directly to wizards and not to all classes). Your rude attitude for my suggestion to read another thread is quite OBSCENE as you so eloquently said.
I said the tool was more catered to wizards as it allow buffs other tools do not. (Can you compare MW vs MW w/ Force Weapn vs Familiar w/ Sparkflint easily? No?) Just cause your specific example where you don't need buffs, doesn't require the extra features of a tool doesn't make it "obscene" for me to say having those features makes it more specific towards wizards.
Edit: My point for posting in this thread was to say "Here, we did this over on B.net, see if you can build on it and find something we didn't, this is what we used, as it was more tailored to what we were doing (buffed dps)". Seems like the help wasn't wanted even though you said to post if you had ideas of things you were missing (which you were a bunch).
The weapon is a huge difference. A 1h Sword with IAS will always be the top DPS dealer. Sword > Dagger > Wand for ultimate dps. So using a Wand in your diagram is a huge loss of possible DPS.
Without the buffs there is still a big difference. The difference comes in things like boots not being max dps provided. And other small things where the most dps isn't pulled out of all slots. Ours however isn't taking in as much of an effort for EHP, we just picked max stats after all dps stats were rolled. The EHP is still huge, but after 500k isn't a major gain where more DPS after 500k is, so that's why we chose to maximize DPS stats.
As for D3UP, it is a great tool - no arguments there. However, it is missing a lot of things, and some of the calculations are off by slight amounts. It rounds in some places, and doesn't in others. It also isn't very easy to do new gearing compared to other tools. You may like D3Up, and that's fine. However, the one we have is specifically tailored for wizards, tested by wizards, and allows for much more precise information for wizards. Everything that the d3up does, the dpsCalc does plus much more for wizards. however, it's a personal thing. Some people like to use Excel, that's their choice, doesn't make it wrong however.
Yes we put each individual item that we deemed as BIS into my damage calculator here:
http://www.unyieldingvalor.com/D3/calcTool.php
It's a more specialized towards wizard one that most people on the D3 forums use.
If you want to go ahead and put them in you can recreate the same gear. I'm thinking the difference is you're using BIS of gear that exists on Diablo progress, where we are using the actual BIS gear (max rolls for every item prop).
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/7199402895?page=1
http://www.unyieldingvalor.com/D3/beta/calcTool.php
Ie:
Armor taken into account
Res All taken into account
Class taken into account
Dodge taken into account
Nothing else. There however, is an extra column for Elite Dmg Reduction. I may add extra columns for ranged and melee, but there hasn't been much request for it on the other thread on the D3 forums.
"Weapon IaS is being imported into the "Bonus Attack Percent:" box, not sure if it's being calculated correctly or not."
Yeah, that is IAS, i just have funny wording, i should fix that.
As for the region not saving, i can update that too! Thanks for that.
As for the EHP values, it seems kind of silly for people not to want dodge, as it's not like you can turn dodge off. I'm not sure why other calculators are showing EHP without dodge as it's very misleading, but so far everyone who has asked why mine was higher has ended up agreeing that EHP should include dodge due to the fact that you can't remove it / turn it off.
but either way, the way blizzard does rounding it is actually not needed to do that as they do their rounding prior to Attacks per Second multiplication.
This number actually isn't needed at all. Using physical dmg/elemental damage and total damage, you can find out all you need to know to get DPS values and EHP values. Since the Dmg % is just considered black dmg.
Edit: However, thanks, I guess I could add it in, I just didn't see the need to as it provides no difference to the overall scheme of things. And edit again where i saw that you said it's not needed too
Haha thank you! Glad people are using it and enjoying it! Any ideas for Version 3 are welcome!
I'm a programmer have done a lot of Blizzard calcualtors. I did a CTC and a Haste Breakpoint calculator for WOW and have been working on a DPS/ EHP Calc for D3 that will do both at once and give some nice information breakdowns. I think I have finished Wizard section of it, including talents. I was wondering if anyone would mind testing it out. It has been updated for 1.0.5 so EHP will be lower than you saw before, and monster levels are 63 automatically so that will lower your EHP slightly too. Check it out let me know if you have any C&C, anything is helpful.
http://www.unyieldingvalor.com/D3/calcTool.php
Instructions for use:
Type in your battle tag, hit load heroes.
Select your hero and click Submit Hero.
You will now see breakdowns of your DPS and EHP.
The benefits of this over other calculators:
You can compare multiple items at once.
You can see EHP and DPS increases at once.
You can view non-regular buffs.
Breakdowns that aren't on most sites.