Simply value of tf depends on the skills you use for proccing it. If you can find a way to proc it really well (for example lightning hammerdin) you should use it. Items such as TF will shine with high attack speed and skills that can proc stuff well.
Reason i pick hammers is that they are quite reliable at proccing items even though they seem unreliable when you take a peek on those proc rates. What makes hammers good at proccing is how they deal the damage and how you can spam them. For example most of the high cost skills wont be efficient as hammers since you wont be able to pump em nearly non stop.
Also i think that with burning wrath rune, fire patches that are left on the ground can also proc. Keep in mind there are also small connections which i am not sure of. For example hammer spam procs also andys and if you can get to melee range with it, it may also proc furnace yet i am not sure if that is possible.
As you can see that is nearly the core aim of the build, simply using furnaces proc well and trying to maximize it.
@Dallten I can also promise you that this build can also give you the ability to dual wield a beer bottle and a mouse at the same time
@Almex Main reason that i ignored most of the defensive stats and mechanics skills etc of the game is unity x 2 + immortal follower combo. If you lack that combo i can also suggest that you can play defensively instead of aggresive which is my playing style on the videos or cut some dps gear and skills down to grab more defensive skillset.
And i have 800 avg all res some higher than that. 440-450k ish hp and 17-18k ish armor. These stats are vital when it comes to play a hammer focused crusader yet there are more into surviving than pure defensive stats. Build itself can benefit from loh really surprisingly well (which is ignored mostly because it doesnt work well with other skills generally). That can boost your healing a lot. And then you can also boost your survival with wrathful + health globe bonus gear.
It all depends on how you die on T5 and T6. If you are surviving hits and trading blows with champ packs and other elite enemies i can say you need more healing. If they nearly instagib you or get you down fast then i can say you need more beef so more defensive focus.
And lastly back in D2 when i was a lowly hammerdin without enigma or hoto i used to kite elite packs and kill them while i do so. You can also try standing a bit away from the pack and spam hammers and cover yourself with hammers, if the pack is slow by its nature or if you have any means to slow them that can also work well. But yeah these tactics will slow you down and community nowadays demand fastest clear on anything.
@ Mizten So far i couldnt understand dominion rune effect on hammers. If that rune would also slow your hammers spin it would be really great yet it doesnt. It kinda makes you a running hammer turret but hammers doesnt last long as in D2. But perhaps there are can be other ways to make that rune useful.
About paragon points it is nearly standart - Str if you have enough movement speed and vita , Attack Speed > CHD > CHC = CDR , AR = Armor = Life > Life Regen , LoH > Area Damage = Resource Reduction.
Since hammers proc items and loh well stacking a bit of it will help survival a lot, attack speed improves loh gain and procs so therefore i spend my points on AS first. Build works very well with proc weapons or items. That is the reason why rift guardian dies that fast.
@ Mizten
About shields that is definitely right. You can also go for a lidless wall yet it will cost you a bit on survival since it rolls mostly offensive stats. And about your gear i can say it is not bad at all. Since Blackthorne pants always roll with loh that improves your healing a lot and you have nice fire gear on yourself :).
And lastly i am not sure but for a start i think after the buff cinderswitch can be actually a good choice. Depending on proc chance and if proc is effected by fire gear.
I haven't taken a dump on a thread here on the forums for a very long time. It's nice to have a reason to do that every once in a while.
I would comment on the guide itself, but because of the rainbowification of your posts I cannot read it, unfortunately. Perhaps if you decide to make it readable (and I don't mean it's badly written or anything, but actually outright unreadable), I might return to comment.
The only positive thing I have to say is that you have a video, even though it took me about 30 minutes to find it amidst the chaos that your posts are, and even then the music is way too loud and it's just a single guardian kill, something this build will clearly shine against. Show us more variety, fix the posts, thank you very much.
Hmm i think i agree that using too much color on the post was a mistake. I like the term that you used "rainbowification" though
On the other hand tried to polish it a bit and updated the post with another short video. And sorry if those videos i uploaded are not good enough. I am new to youtubing.
- Effective facesmashing , steamrolling , 'hear the lamentations of their women' damage.
- Superior Aoe and Single target dps. With enough experience you can kill stuff while kiting , running and drinking beer.
- Quite flexible with cindercoat and unity combo can adapt and make use of other passives and skills.
- Lastly it nearly resembles oldschool hammerdin.
Cons :
- Survival is lacking since fire gear mostly makes you sacrifice survival. Yet that can be boosted with legendaries such as unity and passives,skills,runes.
- While hammers are godly if you are being chased by badass champ packs it is lacking when you are chasing goblins and runners. That can be fixed via Judgement.
- Build is based upon fire gear and furnace. This makes it hard to complete yet you wont need akkhans for this build to work.
Blessed Hammer - Burning Wrath : Baseline skill of the build. Perfect damage source for item procs and facewrecking damage with burning wrath rune.
Punish - Roar , Slash - Crush , Slash - Carve: Wrath generators of the build. Punish for survival and a bit of damage via block. Slash Crush and Carve for pure dps. Slash can be an ok choice over punish because it can do aoe damage and has a wider and longer range to use with Carve.
Akarat's Champion - Firestarter ,Akarat's Champion - Prophet, Akarat' Champion - Hasteful : Main Cooldown of the build. Firestarter for maximum proc and damage potency. Prophet for rocksteady survival. You can also use hasteful for faster hammer spam yet that can lead to wrath starvation.
Steed Charge - Endurance,Steed Charge - Nightmare,Steed Charge - Rejuvenation : Endurance for maximum mobility, Nightmare for a bit of extra dps, Rejuvenation for a bit of survival and healing.
Provoke - Cleanse , Provoke - Charged Up, Provoke - Too Scared to Run : Cleanse for healing , Charged up for maximum damage , Too Scared to Run for survival.
Laws of Valor : Critical for better hammer damage , Frozen in Terror for survival and control , Invincible for healing , Unstoppable Force if you are having wrath regen problems.
For last passive choice you can pick what you need depending on your gear and liking. For example Holy Cause or Finery for damage , Vigilance and Divine Fortress for survival.
Furnace ,http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/the-furnace : Very known hammer for fast disposal for big bad guys. Proc just destroys anything , anytime. With hammers you can proc it fast and efficient.
%Fire Damage Gear : Fire gear is needed to make this build work obviously. Since you will be able to bash elites and champs with furnace you will need fire damage for sustainable dps over spiky furnace procs.
Cindercoat : It is not a must yet it helps your wrath management and dps a lot. It can also give your an oppurtunity to change the build around. For example you can use another spender since it will give you a breathing room for wrath spent.
Well it is known that smart drop helps you with leg stats. Such as if you stack lots of loh or lets say cdr youll get those stats often on your gear. Yet i think set drops are way too complicated and not tied to things such as wearing them or not.
Sacrifice ? Needs a huge damage buff to work like the way it is : %500-600 wd per dog or even more
Dots ? Haunt %575 wd over 15 secs. Locust Swarm %360(%468) wd over 8 secs. Barbs are getting %700(%903) wd over 5 sec : if they wont buff these dots as they buffed barb dot it will be a big issue.
Spells like Spirit Barrage , Fire Bats without Dire Bats , Acid Cloud needs huge buffs so using them shouldnt feel like you are wasting mana and you can use primary spell over them.
Mass Confusion sucks pretty much against elites most of the time when you cast it they start moving to each other for hitting yet confusion breaks before they hit.
Summoning passives are quite useless too they should increase fetish and dog spawn chances.
And not to mention i expect huge buffs to primary spells. Playing with zombie bears or bats feel like playing a dh or wizard. I want to play with dots , pets, exotic spells .
In Diablo 2 every major upgrade gave you killing speed, durability and by thus faster farming, facerolling like a boss.
I love Diablo 2 because i can spam corpse explosion till i clear whole level. Diablo 3 is slowly getting to that point and i hope we will feel that "bossy" state again. If i want to move out of fire , dodge frozen balls and dance over arcane beams i would play wow. I want to kill fast and have no problem with elite packs when i reach top end gear.
Another problem is when you reach that kind of gear level you cant use it apart from farming again and again (Which is no fun atm). No pvp, no level race to 99.
Simply no endgame, and farming is slow and not enjoyable.
This is what I was trying to say basically. The drop rates might be similar to D2, but in D2 more things were probably dropping.
But really I wasn't comparing the drop rates of D3 to the ones in D2. I was saying as a general statement that the drop rates are too low for the game to feel rewarding. I know it has to be this way because of the AH, but the point remains.
Also, it's not really about the drop rates, it's about how exciting the drops are. Since this game is nothing but an item farm, that's really where all the enjoyment comes from.
That's why I don't understand the idea of making ilvl 63 items terrible. It sets up a situation where people have high expectations (because ilvl 63s can be great) and then get an ilvl 63 weapon with 250 DPS. It's like getting wrapping paper as a present on Christmas.
A solution to this is to create a system where you build weapons (a much better one than current crafting). That way, when you find a great item, it doesn't have to be the item itself, but is still exciting because you're closer to building the item you want. That's just one idea of course.
By the way... the AH is garbage, I don't think anyone can convince me that it's a positive aspect to this game. Necessary maybe... but it's not good. When I find a really nice item, the enjoyment is usually curbed by having to price it and sell it on the AH. And then I get to wait until someone decides to buy it. I don't see the fun in that.
I dont think crappy item drops are the reason. D2 was exactly the same.
Truth is farming was much more tolerable in D2. Farming meph, pindle , pits were much easier. It wasnt complicated and we didnt put lots of effort into killing stuff. Therefore whenever we got crappy loot we didnt care. Because we could do it again without hassle. And it was fun to stomp everything easily.
D3 is different. For example as a WW baba i get 6-7 jailer elite packs in a row sometimes and it is really pain in the arse to get stuck between molten swift skullcleavers or demonic tremors. Or lets take invul minions affix for example. I dont even mention runners such as blood clan occultist with molten or blood clan impaler pack with nightmarish affix. It is annoying and not that easy when we compare farming pindle or meph. And when you get rid of hard packs like these you expect something valuable, at least something for your alt, reward for your efforts. Yet getting a single 54-59 rare pisses me off.
In the end we expect Xmas presents because of complicated and time wasting elite packs but we get crap. I am happy that they are nerfing inferno hard and buffing classes not because game is hard since with this drop quality its not fun to farm and its not rewarding. I think this is why casuals left the game. Because in the end you play the game for fun. I hope they will fix this effort-reward balance.
Crafting system atm is simple and boring and doesnt encourage you to craft. D2 crafting made it possible to reroll items, craft some top gear for certain slots. System was amazing since it required lots of pgems and low runes. With this it was possible for new players to farm pgems or low runes ( which was a hassle for rich players ) and get something useful by trading those.
In the end i expected much more from Diablo 3 when i bought it. New mechanics , interesting additions, creative systems. And sadly got nothing.
Ive seen one item affix from TL2 and it was brilliant. I think it was something like " Kill xxx type of mobs to upgrade this weapons damage by xxx". Now that is creative and that can surely make farming or grinding rewarding. D3 could come up with new stuff like this yet they focused too much on rmah i guess.
Sigh, i am still playing D3 yet when i think about these i feel disappointed.
With elite pack hps going down it is something like a huge buff to all classes in a way. You will use less skils to kill them. They will nerf pack affixes too so less running more standing and spamming. We dont know limits and specifics of all legendaries they can provide a huge dps buff. And iconic skills as they name it, are getting devastating buffs.
In the end you wont waste that much of hatred as you are wasting now after 1.0.4.
Even if cluster arrow fails to please they wont leave it like that(i hope). From what i see with class changes they will make it work.
In Diablo 2 every major upgrade gave you killing speed, durability and by thus faster farming, facerolling like a boss.
I love Diablo 2 because i can spam corpse explosion till i clear whole level. Diablo 3 is slowly getting to that point and i hope we will feel that "bossy" state again. If i want to move out of fire , dodge frozen balls and dance over arcane beams i would play wow. I want to kill fast and have no problem with elite packs when i reach top end gear.
Another problem is when you reach that kind of gear level you cant use it apart from farming again and again (Which is no fun atm). No pvp, no level race to 99.
Simply no endgame, and farming is slow and not enjoyable.
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@ Overblaze I think nearly everything that can be spammed or activated often can proc Furnace, yet chances are different.
Proc Rates of Skills :http://www.d3maxstats.com/?p=procrates&class=crus
Also :https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgL5S3Revw9ddEhScEpSLWhnRDZKV25OaWZJcHdkN0E&usp=drive_web#gid=0
Reason i pick hammers is that they are quite reliable at proccing items even though they seem unreliable when you take a peek on those proc rates. What makes hammers good at proccing is how they deal the damage and how you can spam them. For example most of the high cost skills wont be efficient as hammers since you wont be able to pump em nearly non stop.
Also i think that with burning wrath rune, fire patches that are left on the ground can also proc. Keep in mind there are also small connections which i am not sure of. For example hammer spam procs also andys and if you can get to melee range with it, it may also proc furnace yet i am not sure if that is possible.
As you can see that is nearly the core aim of the build, simply using furnaces proc well and trying to maximize it.
@Dallten I can also promise you that this build can also give you the ability to dual wield a beer bottle and a mouse at the same time
@Almex Main reason that i ignored most of the defensive stats and mechanics skills etc of the game is unity x 2 + immortal follower combo. If you lack that combo i can also suggest that you can play defensively instead of aggresive which is my playing style on the videos or cut some dps gear and skills down to grab more defensive skillset.
And i have 800 avg all res some higher than that. 440-450k ish hp and 17-18k ish armor. These stats are vital when it comes to play a hammer focused crusader yet there are more into surviving than pure defensive stats. Build itself can benefit from loh really surprisingly well (which is ignored mostly because it doesnt work well with other skills generally). That can boost your healing a lot. And then you can also boost your survival with wrathful + health globe bonus gear.
It all depends on how you die on T5 and T6. If you are surviving hits and trading blows with champ packs and other elite enemies i can say you need more healing. If they nearly instagib you or get you down fast then i can say you need more beef so more defensive focus.
And lastly back in D2 when i was a lowly hammerdin without enigma or hoto i used to kite elite packs and kill them while i do so. You can also try standing a bit away from the pack and spam hammers and cover yourself with hammers, if the pack is slow by its nature or if you have any means to slow them that can also work well. But yeah these tactics will slow you down and community nowadays demand fastest clear on anything.
@ Mizten So far i couldnt understand dominion rune effect on hammers. If that rune would also slow your hammers spin it would be really great yet it doesnt. It kinda makes you a running hammer turret but hammers doesnt last long as in D2. But perhaps there are can be other ways to make that rune useful.
@ Vulpes
About paragon points it is nearly standart - Str if you have enough movement speed and vita , Attack Speed > CHD > CHC = CDR , AR = Armor = Life > Life Regen , LoH > Area Damage = Resource Reduction.
Since hammers proc items and loh well stacking a bit of it will help survival a lot, attack speed improves loh gain and procs so therefore i spend my points on AS first. Build works very well with proc weapons or items. That is the reason why rift guardian dies that fast.
@ Mizten
About shields that is definitely right. You can also go for a lidless wall yet it will cost you a bit on survival since it rolls mostly offensive stats. And about your gear i can say it is not bad at all. Since Blackthorne pants always roll with loh that improves your healing a lot and you have nice fire gear on yourself :).
And lastly i am not sure but for a start i think after the buff cinderswitch can be actually a good choice. Depending on proc chance and if proc is effected by fire gear.
On the other hand tried to polish it a bit and updated the post with another short video. And sorry if those videos i uploaded are not good enough. I am new to youtubing.
Extra Information , Reserved Section :
Pros and Cons :
Pros :
- Effective facesmashing , steamrolling , 'hear the lamentations of their women' damage.
- Superior Aoe and Single target dps. With enough experience you can kill stuff while kiting , running and drinking beer.
- Quite flexible with cindercoat and unity combo can adapt and make use of other passives and skills.
- Lastly it nearly resembles oldschool hammerdin.
Cons :
- Survival is lacking since fire gear mostly makes you sacrifice survival. Yet that can be boosted with legendaries such as unity and passives,skills,runes.
- While hammers are godly if you are being chased by badass champ packs it is lacking when you are chasing goblins and runners. That can be fixed via Judgement.
- Build is based upon fire gear and furnace. This makes it hard to complete yet you wont need akkhans for this build to work.
My Profile :http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Kagore-2224/hero/40495003
Skill Set :
Blessed Hammer - Burning Wrath : Baseline skill of the build. Perfect damage source for item procs and facewrecking damage with burning wrath rune.
Punish - Roar , Slash - Crush , Slash - Carve: Wrath generators of the build. Punish for survival and a bit of damage via block. Slash Crush and Carve for pure dps. Slash can be an ok choice over punish because it can do aoe damage and has a wider and longer range to use with Carve.
Akarat's Champion - Firestarter ,Akarat's Champion - Prophet, Akarat' Champion - Hasteful : Main Cooldown of the build. Firestarter for maximum proc and damage potency. Prophet for rocksteady survival. You can also use hasteful for faster hammer spam yet that can lead to wrath starvation.
Steed Charge - Endurance,Steed Charge - Nightmare,Steed Charge - Rejuvenation : Endurance for maximum mobility, Nightmare for a bit of extra dps, Rejuvenation for a bit of survival and healing.
Provoke - Cleanse , Provoke - Charged Up, Provoke - Too Scared to Run : Cleanse for healing , Charged up for maximum damage , Too Scared to Run for survival.
Laws of Valor : Critical for better hammer damage , Frozen in Terror for survival and control , Invincible for healing , Unstoppable Force if you are having wrath regen problems.
Passives :
Heavenly Strength : A must for Furnace.
Wrathful : Needed for sustained healing.
Blunt : Better Hammers, Better Facewrecking, Better Damage
For last passive choice you can pick what you need depending on your gear and liking. For example Holy Cause or Finery for damage , Vigilance and Divine Fortress for survival.
Here is an example of the build that i use : http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/crusader#aeVdfQ!aiWe!aaZaZa
Mandatory Items and Gear:
Furnace ,http://us.battle.net/d3/en/item/the-furnace : Very known hammer for fast disposal for big bad guys. Proc just destroys anything , anytime. With hammers you can proc it fast and efficient.
%Fire Damage Gear : Fire gear is needed to make this build work obviously. Since you will be able to bash elites and champs with furnace you will need fire damage for sustainable dps over spiky furnace procs.
Cindercoat : It is not a must yet it helps your wrath management and dps a lot. It can also give your an oppurtunity to change the build around. For example you can use another spender since it will give you a breathing room for wrath spent.
Gameplay Videos :
Guardian Kill : http://youtu.be/-_4tTc_A-jo
Rift action : http://youtu.be/7-s0wdF-_RY
Also youll need 6-7k loh to survive since you dont use wrathful.
Wd buffs are ok yet they didnt touch sacrifice and dots. Locust swarm and Haunt is still weak.
Probably useful if it stacks with fetish passive other than that not impressive at all. Could be lot better.
Sacrifice ? Needs a huge damage buff to work like the way it is : %500-600 wd per dog or even more
Dots ? Haunt %575 wd over 15 secs. Locust Swarm %360(%468) wd over 8 secs. Barbs are getting %700(%903) wd over 5 sec : if they wont buff these dots as they buffed barb dot it will be a big issue.
Spells like Spirit Barrage , Fire Bats without Dire Bats , Acid Cloud needs huge buffs so using them shouldnt feel like you are wasting mana and you can use primary spell over them.
Mass Confusion sucks pretty much against elites most of the time when you cast it they start moving to each other for hitting yet confusion breaks before they hit.
Summoning passives are quite useless too they should increase fetish and dog spawn chances.
And not to mention i expect huge buffs to primary spells. Playing with zombie bears or bats feel like playing a dh or wizard. I want to play with dots , pets, exotic spells
I dont think crappy item drops are the reason. D2 was exactly the same.
Truth is farming was much more tolerable in D2. Farming meph, pindle , pits were much easier. It wasnt complicated and we didnt put lots of effort into killing stuff. Therefore whenever we got crappy loot we didnt care. Because we could do it again without hassle. And it was fun to stomp everything easily.
D3 is different. For example as a WW baba i get 6-7 jailer elite packs in a row sometimes and it is really pain in the arse to get stuck between molten swift skullcleavers or demonic tremors. Or lets take invul minions affix for example. I dont even mention runners such as blood clan occultist with molten or blood clan impaler pack with nightmarish affix. It is annoying and not that easy when we compare farming pindle or meph. And when you get rid of hard packs like these you expect something valuable, at least something for your alt, reward for your efforts. Yet getting a single 54-59 rare pisses me off.
In the end we expect Xmas presents because of complicated and time wasting elite packs but we get crap. I am happy that they are nerfing inferno hard and buffing classes not because game is hard since with this drop quality its not fun to farm and its not rewarding. I think this is why casuals left the game. Because in the end you play the game for fun. I hope they will fix this effort-reward balance.
Crafting system atm is simple and boring and doesnt encourage you to craft. D2 crafting made it possible to reroll items, craft some top gear for certain slots. System was amazing since it required lots of pgems and low runes. With this it was possible for new players to farm pgems or low runes ( which was a hassle for rich players ) and get something useful by trading those.
In the end i expected much more from Diablo 3 when i bought it. New mechanics , interesting additions, creative systems. And sadly got nothing.
Ive seen one item affix from TL2 and it was brilliant. I think it was something like " Kill xxx type of mobs to upgrade this weapons damage by xxx". Now that is creative and that can surely make farming or grinding rewarding. D3 could come up with new stuff like this yet they focused too much on rmah i guess.
Sigh, i am still playing D3 yet when i think about these i feel disappointed.
What about sacrifice?
In the end you wont waste that much of hatred as you are wasting now after 1.0.4.
Even if cluster arrow fails to please they wont leave it like that(i hope). From what i see with class changes they will make it work.
In Diablo 2 every major upgrade gave you killing speed, durability and by thus faster farming, facerolling like a boss.
I love Diablo 2 because i can spam corpse explosion till i clear whole level. Diablo 3 is slowly getting to that point and i hope we will feel that "bossy" state again. If i want to move out of fire , dodge frozen balls and dance over arcane beams i would play wow. I want to kill fast and have no problem with elite packs when i reach top end gear.
Another problem is when you reach that kind of gear level you cant use it apart from farming again and again (Which is no fun atm). No pvp, no level race to 99.
Simply no endgame, and farming is slow and not enjoyable.