So if I make a well constructed argument about something deliberately misleading and false people should just accept it as truth simply because I have constructed it well? You are an attorney or politician aren't you?
No of course not, you should be able to formulate your own opinion and be able to express it. I am just saying not all people are just crying for the sake of crying
You can not, under any circumstances come to any conclusion about what the overall player base likes and dislikes by citing the official forums, or the Curse forums or anywhere else. It's far too small a sample size to extrapolate anything. Plus, as has been said so many times now, human beings are far more likely to offer unsolicited complaints as opposed to praise. Of course a large portion of the official forums are complaints and some, a much smaller percentage, are well thought out and fair. For every one of those posts there are probably another 50+ absolute crap, troll, band wagon, pack mentality, drivel posts. You know what people who enjoy the game are doing? They are playing the game, and most of them doing so quietly. Why would you post about how much you enjoy the game knowing that your post will be instantly trolled and derailed by people who make it their mission to fully embody the great internet fuckwad theory. I wouldn't and neither would any of my friends.
I agree totally that happens but I have never seen it to this extent for this long of a period time for any Blizzard game I have played for the past 10 years. While there are many posts like the ones you mentioned above, there are just as many posts that I feel express their displeasure in a very organized, well-written fashion with legitimate concerns that should at least be read if not addressed. I see now where you are coming from about getting a thread derailed by complimenting this game and you are absolutely correct. Even if I feel someone wouldn't be able to make that argument to begin with. But to each their own.
I think it's great that people have differences of opinion about the game, I just tend to find that most who are not happy with it offer better constructive arguements then those who feel the game is great.
The problem is that many of these well-constructed arguments are simply not true. People believe them because they read a well-constructed argument, then start spouting ill-informed rage, but no matter how much it is repeated it doesn't suddenly become true.
I know this is a stupid example, but I really think it shows exactly what's wrong with the Diablo Community: people insist that Life Steal is complete garbage because someone made a pretty video and explained that Life On Hit was far superior for hits of around 10k damage. Do you know what I never read on any forum anywhere? "What if you do way more damage per hit than that?" People have been shrieking about the lack of build diversity while I was progressing through Act 2 pre-nerf with a 2h Lifesteal barb.
People on the internet say things that aren't true, and they do it all the time. But a well-argued falsehood is still false.
If you have a well-constructed argument, there is no need to start spouting ill-informed rage because the argument is constructed well? For the most part, I have not seen that rage in all the popular topics I have read since launch. Just well-written and to the point. I am not trying to start a flame war but you stated that it's not true but give no actual reason why. Then the example you provide isn't actually what the popular topics are discussing. I think maybe you should go on the official forums and give them a read.
I would agree with the OP since most Blizzard games have a massive player base and things don't always go smoothly for launch so people will cry foul every moment that something they don't agree with happens. However, it's hard to ignore not only the amount of negativety (all popular topics on the official forums seem to be about how bad the game is) and for how long it has been going on. The reason I say it's hard to ignore is because most of the so-called QQers/whiners/troll actually construct well-thoughtout and well-written posts that do a great job of expressing their displeasure. It's not the simple knee-jerk reaction of "this patch blows" but giving no reason as to why. I am certain that those people do not want to take the time out of their day just to post a wall-o-text for giggles. So unless you actually take the time to read these fine pieces of literature, then I wouldn't be quick to call everyone cynicial or crybabies.
Let's not forget, Blizzard put in a ninja hotfix about a week ago to limit how many games we could create/join for "server stability." It was the so-called QQers/whiners/trolls that flooded the forums with complaints that Blizzard removed it within hours. It was a no-brainer to almost everyone that they shouldn't have implemented that. It's because of these poor, mind-boggling decisions that people are so cynical. So how does one differeniate a crybaby that cries for the sake of crying and one that cries for changes they know should happen? It seems the OP has lumped both in the same boat.
I think it's great that people have differences of opinion about the game, I just tend to find that most who are not happy with it offer better constructive arguements then those who feel the game is great. Also, noone is forcing people to read those crybaby posts...if you don't agree, don't read it then. But to complain about complainers....
Stop embarrassing yourself. And reported for trolling.
Food for thought - You want someone to take you seriously? Post constructively - Don't swear, don't cry - Just state the fact of the problem. Just observe the facts that everything will be alright - that this is not the end of the world. Then we'll talk.
You should take your own advice. Going around calling people trolls, quoting and changing the words to poke fun at others yet offering up nothing when people do post something constructive that you don't agree with.
If you can honestly say you think this is a quality game for the year that we live in, you are delusional.
Forgive me for expressing an opinion I feel I have a right to, not only as a consumer but a long time Blizz gamer.
Am I the only one who finds those two sentences back to back amazingly hypocritical? In one sentence you generalize all people who disagree with you by saying if you like D3 you are "delusional" and in the second sentence you attempt to garner sympathy for your opinion by being insincerely apologetic about your opinion. You aren't sorry you think the game is crap. If you are genuinely sorry about anything it's that people don't mindlessly pander to your specific point of view. You don't like something while other people do. Except your opinion is "right" and deserves to be heard while anyone who disagrees is "delusional" Well played, Troll. Well played.
I didn't state that if you liked the game you are delusional. I said if you think this is a quality game, considering Blizz track record, the time they had for development, the resources in man-power, $$ and blueprints from other successful games, then you are delusional. Hope that clarifies.
Also, if you understand that it's a personal opinion there is no need to get so bent out of shape.
Right, I do understand it's a matter of personal opinion. It certainly would not be considered factual for one person to say that they think a game is quality. So to clarify what you said, twice now, if a person has an opinion about the game other than what you believe, they are delusional.
Got it. Thanks for clarifying kiddo
No, I honestly don't think you got it. If their opinion is specifically about the quality of the game and that it is up to Blizz standards then they are delusional. What's so hard to understand?
Anyway...i will ask a real question to everywhere, the qq'ers, the fanboys, and the neutral-guys.
The whole point in the Diablo 3 franchise was doing certain builds work under certain conditions...(Infinity sorc come to mind in d2).....why they didn't make the other stats more appealing rather than nerfing ias to the ground ?. I don't want to "Balance" everything in my character, i want to make the build i want. Be it 50%+ crit, 500%+ crit dmg, insane IAS, etc. Why i can't have my little sandbox of stats to play with ?
FFS
IAS is still REALLY, REALLY GOOD.
its like you guys cannot think at all.
Again, IAS is STILL A REALLY GOOD STAT.
Just not a completely broken must have.
.
it's still a must have for almost every class, especially for monks/barbs with life on hit which means their goal of IAS not being a mandatory stat failed right on its face.
I openly challenge you to find me a better ARPG game released in the last 5 years. Cant find one? Hmmmmmmmm, guess that aint to "low" on the list.
The combat in D3 is better, the visuals are better, the boss fights are better, the skills system is better, etc, etc, etc.
Just because YOU dont like the way D3 has gone, does NOT make you any kind of authority on the quality of the game, I personally LIKE it.
I could go out and make blanket generalizations just like you;
"Only people with completely unrealistic expectations are dissapointed by D3"
The simple fact of the matter is this, the game has been out over a month, you either like it, or you dont, find something productive to do with your life.
Simple matter, people expected a game developed for 10 years. They got a game that was made in about 3 years and delayed till wow died. Hence it feels like the game is outdated. Now everyone got a old game that is massively sub-par by blizzard standards we got used to in all these years.
While the gameplay is "reasonable", there are plenty of posts explaining why it is far from what it was supposed to be.
Storyline is A JOKE, you can read this post http://us.battle.net...opic/5836595552
Also the game feels like a lot of the neat features that were in the early beta/promo videos were cut/removed.
And while yes, experience will vary on your expectations and even what class you play at what difficulty. For example it is a lot more "fun" to kill everything and progress through inferno. Rather than hitting a brick wall and having to farm for a week just to buy gear to advance further. Some classes need to do that, others don't.
So balance is out of the window too.
This game is enjoyable, but nowhere near as good as it could have been if the right people worked at it.
And to find another game, like you said, you are not interested in a game with better combat or loot or skills etc.
You are interested in a game called diablo - just better.
There are plenty of games with better combat system, better visuals, better concept, better storyline.
None of them is Diablo.
Want amazing boss fights:
Want amazing concept of perma-death mmo-rpg game?
realm of the mad god
want an amazing skill system that is actually 10 times as customizable as diablo promised it would be
path of exile has that.
Those are just the latest games I was exposed to. I can name a lot more to every category.
Thank you...you worded it much better than myself. And I am glad i am not the only person that feels this way. +1
If you can honestly say you think this is a quality game for the year that we live in, you are delusional.
Forgive me for expressing an opinion I feel I have a right to, not only as a consumer but a long time Blizz gamer.
Am I the only one who finds those two sentences back to back amazingly hypocritical? In one sentence you generalize all people who disagree with you by saying if you like D3 you are "delusional" and in the second sentence you attempt to garner sympathy for your opinion by being insincerely apologetic about your opinion. You aren't sorry you think the game is crap. If you are genuinely sorry about anything it's that people don't mindlessly pander to your specific point of view. You don't like something while other people do. Except your opinion is "right" and deserves to be heard while anyone who disagrees is "delusional" Well played, Troll. Well played.
I didn't state that if you liked the game you are delusional. I said if you think this is a quality game, considering Blizz track record, the time they had for development, the resources in man-power, $$ and blueprints from other successful games, then you are delusional. Hope that clarifies.
Also, if you understand that it's a personal opinion there is no need to get so bent out of shape.
This is the internet - Welcome sir - We have reviewed your request and declined it.
Glad to be here! Thanks for the warm welcome!
In all due honesty - You can keep your opinion. No-one is actually flaming you for holding an opinion. People are flaming you for going out of your way to technically go to their favorite less-then-good-bar , where they relax and do w/e - to come in - scream that every single one is a sodding drunk who should stop being there - because you think bars should have "standards".
I never told anyone they shouldn't be playing Diablo 3. And surprise, some people do have standards, especially ones that don't seem too unreasonable. The fact that you think you go into the game and do whatever you want is laughable at best. I think you meant that you go into the game and play it the way Blizz wants you to play it.
Because D2 is crap and outdated. Comparing those 2 games is like comparing Madden '97 to Madden '12.
Bad comparison as they improved the Madden games through-out the year through many various changes by learning from previous versions. Something Blizz failed to do here. Also I would play Madden 97 if say one of favorite old schools players/teams were in it that arent in the newer versions. Tell me what is better gameplay/feature-wise.
The only people crying are the nubs who were rolling broken DH builds.
This patch is GREAT.
Better loot tables, direct hit to botters, harder bosses (with unique Inferno stuffs), cheaper BS/Gemcraft, and NERFED DAMAGE IN INFERNO.
All of these things are GREAT.
If your entire build is 100% reliant on IAS, your terribad.
The patch is great huh? Sugar-coating a piece of turd still makes it a piece of turd. It's sad people get so excited about patches when they totally forget that this game should not have been this broken to begin with. Sure I can forgive oversights here and there but this is the first time I have played a Blizz game that felt more broken than polished. This is 2012, not Diablo 2, which mind you came out ages ago. And don't even try to defend Blizz cause they had/still have the resources, time and blueprints from previous games to make this game awesome.
Better loot tables to get better items for what? No PvP, No end-game.
Harder bosses? Are you using the same logic as Jay Wilson? Let's use a lazy cop-out and use math to make something more challenging? Every difficulty mode the bosses do the same things pretty much?
Cheaper crafting for BS/JC? Are you still forgetting that those are the ONLY min/max options we have end-game...two freaking professions? That's it?! Soooo much end-game to be had~~~
Nerfed damage in Inferno to streamline the game more than it already is? Nerfed IAS to streamline even further. There should be the "ultimate" items that we should be farming for....or what's the point in all items being similiar? Why don't they just nerf all resist since it's something "everyone was going for" to progress in Inferno past Act 2....it seems like they are eliminating all possible "goals" for achieving anything in this game...
"No end game"
More then D2 ever had.
"No PvP"
Fair enough, but its coming, and will be more then a singular feature "hostile".
And lol, according to YOUR OWN LOGIC, then Diablo 1 and 2 were terrible games?
And yeah, everyone going for the exact same item is totally an awesome and not boring idea.
lol.
If you hate the game so much, find something else to do with your life, I hear there are plenty of other games you can play.
i love how ppl always use the "if you dont like it then don't play it deal." Yes that may be true, but it's not that simple. The fact that a consumer, you, has such low expectations from a gaming company that prides itself on the quality of their games is pretty indicative of how low your standards are. If you can honestly say you think this is a quality game for the year that we live in, you are delusional.
Forgive me for expressing an opinion I feel I have a right to, not only as a consumer but a long time Blizz gamer.
You can also use D1 and D2 all you want, it came out years and years ago. They had plenty of time to learn from their mistakes and improvements through the 100s of patches that D2 saw. Welcome to the 21st century. With that said, you would expect D3 to be at least on par if not better that it's predecessor. So tell me why one should play D3 over D2:LoD?
Anyway...i will ask a real question to everywhere, the qq'ers, the fanboys, and the neutral-guys.
The whole point in the Diablo 3 franchise was doing certain builds work under certain conditions...(Infinity sorc come to mind in d2).....why they didn't make the other stats more appealing rather than nerfing ias to the ground ?. I don't want to "Balance" everything in my character, i want to make the build i want. Be it 50%+ crit, 500%+ crit dmg, insane IAS, etc. Why i can't have my little sandbox of stats to play with ?
I agree with you 100%. People act like DH were the only classes that benefitted from IAS. Not to mention the fact that if you wanted to get IAS on a certain slot that normally didn't have it, it meant you needed to sacrifice something else (like lower main stats, etc). Boj's, Lacuni etc. come to mind.
The only people crying are the nubs who were rolling broken DH builds.
This patch is GREAT.
Better loot tables, direct hit to botters, harder bosses (with unique Inferno stuffs), cheaper BS/Gemcraft, and NERFED DAMAGE IN INFERNO.
All of these things are GREAT.
If your entire build is 100% reliant on IAS, your terribad.
The patch is great huh? Sugar-coating a piece of turd still makes it a piece of turd. It's sad people get so excited about patches when they totally forget that this game should not have been this broken to begin with. Sure I can forgive oversights here and there but this is the first time I have played a Blizz game that felt more broken than polished. This is 2012, not Diablo 2, which mind you came out ages ago. And don't even try to defend Blizz cause they had/still have the resources, time and blueprints from previous games to make this game awesome.
Better loot tables to get better items for what? No PvP, No end-game.
Harder bosses? Are you using the same logic as Jay Wilson? Let's use a lazy cop-out and use math to make something more challenging? Every difficulty mode the bosses do the same things pretty much?
Cheaper crafting for BS/JC? Are you still forgetting that those are the ONLY min/max options we have end-game...two freaking professions? That's it?! Soooo much end-game to be had~~~
Nerfed damage in Inferno to streamline the game more than it already is? Nerfed IAS to streamline even further. There should be the "ultimate" items that we should be farming for....or what's the point in all items being similiar? Why don't they just nerf all resist since it's something "everyone was going for" to progress in Inferno past Act 2....it seems like they are eliminating all possible "goals" for achieving anything in this game...
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No of course not, you should be able to formulate your own opinion and be able to express it. I am just saying not all people are just crying for the sake of crying
I agree totally that happens but I have never seen it to this extent for this long of a period time for any Blizzard game I have played for the past 10 years. While there are many posts like the ones you mentioned above, there are just as many posts that I feel express their displeasure in a very organized, well-written fashion with legitimate concerns that should at least be read if not addressed. I see now where you are coming from about getting a thread derailed by complimenting this game and you are absolutely correct. Even if I feel someone wouldn't be able to make that argument to begin with. But to each their own.
If you have a well-constructed argument, there is no need to start spouting ill-informed rage because the argument is constructed well? For the most part, I have not seen that rage in all the popular topics I have read since launch. Just well-written and to the point. I am not trying to start a flame war but you stated that it's not true but give no actual reason why. Then the example you provide isn't actually what the popular topics are discussing. I think maybe you should go on the official forums and give them a read.
Let's not forget, Blizzard put in a ninja hotfix about a week ago to limit how many games we could create/join for "server stability." It was the so-called QQers/whiners/trolls that flooded the forums with complaints that Blizzard removed it within hours. It was a no-brainer to almost everyone that they shouldn't have implemented that. It's because of these poor, mind-boggling decisions that people are so cynical. So how does one differeniate a crybaby that cries for the sake of crying and one that cries for changes they know should happen? It seems the OP has lumped both in the same boat.
I think it's great that people have differences of opinion about the game, I just tend to find that most who are not happy with it offer better constructive arguements then those who feel the game is great. Also, noone is forcing people to read those crybaby posts...if you don't agree, don't read it then. But to complain about complainers....
You should take your own advice. Going around calling people trolls, quoting and changing the words to poke fun at others yet offering up nothing when people do post something constructive that you don't agree with.
No, I honestly don't think you got it. If their opinion is specifically about the quality of the game and that it is up to Blizz standards then they are delusional. What's so hard to understand?
^^^ Exactly this. Thank you sooooo much.
Thank you...you worded it much better than myself. And I am glad i am not the only person that feels this way. +1
I didn't state that if you liked the game you are delusional. I said if you think this is a quality game, considering Blizz track record, the time they had for development, the resources in man-power, $$ and blueprints from other successful games, then you are delusional. Hope that clarifies.
Also, if you understand that it's a personal opinion there is no need to get so bent out of shape.
I never told anyone they shouldn't be playing Diablo 3. And surprise, some people do have standards, especially ones that don't seem too unreasonable. The fact that you think you go into the game and do whatever you want is laughable at best. I think you meant that you go into the game and play it the way Blizz wants you to play it.
Bad comparison as they improved the Madden games through-out the year through many various changes by learning from previous versions. Something Blizz failed to do here. Also I would play Madden 97 if say one of favorite old schools players/teams were in it that arent in the newer versions. Tell me what is better gameplay/feature-wise.
Glad to be here! Thanks for the warm welcome!
i love how ppl always use the "if you dont like it then don't play it deal." Yes that may be true, but it's not that simple. The fact that a consumer, you, has such low expectations from a gaming company that prides itself on the quality of their games is pretty indicative of how low your standards are. If you can honestly say you think this is a quality game for the year that we live in, you are delusional.
Forgive me for expressing an opinion I feel I have a right to, not only as a consumer but a long time Blizz gamer.
You can also use D1 and D2 all you want, it came out years and years ago. They had plenty of time to learn from their mistakes and improvements through the 100s of patches that D2 saw. Welcome to the 21st century. With that said, you would expect D3 to be at least on par if not better that it's predecessor. So tell me why one should play D3 over D2:LoD?
I agree with you 100%. People act like DH were the only classes that benefitted from IAS. Not to mention the fact that if you wanted to get IAS on a certain slot that normally didn't have it, it meant you needed to sacrifice something else (like lower main stats, etc). Boj's, Lacuni etc. come to mind.
The patch is great huh? Sugar-coating a piece of turd still makes it a piece of turd. It's sad people get so excited about patches when they totally forget that this game should not have been this broken to begin with. Sure I can forgive oversights here and there but this is the first time I have played a Blizz game that felt more broken than polished. This is 2012, not Diablo 2, which mind you came out ages ago. And don't even try to defend Blizz cause they had/still have the resources, time and blueprints from previous games to make this game awesome.
Better loot tables to get better items for what? No PvP, No end-game.
Harder bosses? Are you using the same logic as Jay Wilson? Let's use a lazy cop-out and use math to make something more challenging? Every difficulty mode the bosses do the same things pretty much?
Cheaper crafting for BS/JC? Are you still forgetting that those are the ONLY min/max options we have end-game...two freaking professions? That's it?! Soooo much end-game to be had~~~
Nerfed damage in Inferno to streamline the game more than it already is? Nerfed IAS to streamline even further. There should be the "ultimate" items that we should be farming for....or what's the point in all items being similiar? Why don't they just nerf all resist since it's something "everyone was going for" to progress in Inferno past Act 2....it seems like they are eliminating all possible "goals" for achieving anything in this game...