Diablo 2 pvp, where skill was simply having the most pimped to the gills character and rolling into a pvp game and rofl-stomping 7 other people into the dirt, because you simply had better gear.
I look forward to that simplicity again, kinda sucks no pub games like that anymore, but I look forward to that simplicity in Arena, hopefully.
Still doesnt take as much effort as WoW or LoL, which still rank below RTS and FPS. Keep dreaming if you think d3 pvp is going to require any modicum of real gaming ability. Thats like comparing Tom Brady to a world champion cup stacker. Especially Ladder climbing, that ranks below any game out there. That is simple time invested to the freakin max of skill. Bragging about climbing a ladder is like me bragging I dug 80k out on my Minecraft server. No. SKILL
Lol skill doesn't matter. Thats evidence enough that you never played D2 cause their were so many leechers in there. Also I was in the top 100 for this ladder untill I stopped playing at lvl 89.
It doesnt matter too much in a hack and slash. What do you do differently? Move somewhere else? Climbing a ladder = time invested, not skill invested. I was first HC Witch on the last ladder of PoE. Was I more skilled then others? Maybe in not being stupid, but that skill curve/ceiling was about 1 inch high, I simply had a whole weekend to grind it out.
D2 is one of the lowest skill games you could even play. You hack n slash with mouse 1 and mouse 2 and move around. It would take more dexterity to play Pac Man, Pong, Asteriods, you name it. When people start talking skill and ability, I tell them to go play a game that actually requires that aka RTS and FPS. Not hack n slash co op magic find.
This isn't D2 bro.
Still doesnt take as much effort as WoW or LoL, which still rank below RTS and FPS. Keep dreaming if you think d3 pvp is going to require any modicum of real gaming ability. Thats like comparing Tom Brady to a world champion cup stacker.
First of all, i think that everyone that deams other people "Dumb" or anything else that is negativ because of their oppinion of a computer game (no matter how cult it is) aren't worth anyones intrest.
But ill just say - no one is wrong, its a matter of preference.
Actually one way is wrong....and Blizzard realized it and fixed it. Having 1 guy stand around with all MF on and recieving all the benefits while the others recieved nothing in return is a horrible practice. While dividing your hard earned mf gear seems the wrong way, why should the guy with all the hard earned dps gear have to do all the work for you? Its a double sided sword, and your gear isnt magically on a higher scale simply becuase it has a stat you personally prefer.
Having one person benefit from magic find and 3 others suffer is a horrible design system for a co-op game, especially with real money involved. What would stop me from just standing around doing nothing and making free money/items while I studied and watched youtube? nothing. I would get all the benefits and suffer none of the consequences.
While it may not be the most super perfect Walgreen's commercial way of doing it(Ie averaging the magic find), it is the most fair and logical answer to a game that is meant to be played with other people. Now, youre subpar dps is offset by giving the people with good dps a bit of magic find. There subpar magic find is now offset by the fact they have dps to bring to the table.
It is the most fair system, and obviously Blizzard realized this and changed it.
You cant have your cake and eat it too.
First of all let me say, i still stand by what i said. there is no wrong or right, any other game company could have decided diferently, its a matter of preference and the way you look at and present the situtaion (kinda like rainbows in diablo is "Lame and it should be dark" for 1 person and "is for you to be able to feel the destruction happens as acts progress" for another.
and now let me say that after reading your post i agree with you, and i think this might be better - that way everyone has to work hard and put in the same effort and no one slacks.
Well, the key thing is even if they slack, it isnt a complete burden or unfairness on your team. Because lets face it, with the way the system is, either way there was gonna be some leeches that show up to your game and do nothing but collect free loot.
Only difference was before they were nothing but a burden. Now at least they contribute to giving you a bit better items, because most leeches outside of noobs will have magic find on. If I decided to leech, whether it was split or not I'd wear all the magic find I could find, so this way does at least take some of the sting out of the various farmers/bot/leechers that are goin to come into your game and stand around and collect loot.
Most people outside of complete noobs that want to leech will just stack MF and leech off your kills. Now, you leech off their magic find.
And like another poster said, the majority of players will probably have a little bit of magic find here or there, so once you take into account the kill speed a group gives you, it's probably not hurting you at all, and is probably even better then what you could do solo with stacked MF.
I hate you.
I hope they revert this at least a little bit with PvP.
It will never require as much skills as a solid RTS / FPS but I'd love it to end up competitive at higher levels like other multiplayer games in the genre.
It doesnt matter too much in a hack and slash. What do you do differently? Move somewhere else? Climbing a ladder = time invested, not skill invested. I was first HC Witch on the last ladder of PoE. Was I more skilled then others? Maybe in not being stupid, but that skill curve/ceiling was about 1 inch high, I simply had a whole weekend to grind it out.
D2 is one of the lowest skill games you could even play. You hack n slash with mouse 1 and mouse 2 and move around. It would take more dexterity to play Pac Man, Pong, Asteriods, you name it. When people start talking skill and ability, I tell them to go play a game that actually requires that aka RTS and FPS. Not hack n slash co op magic find.
You can hate me all you want, doesnt stop the fact that diablo pvp ranks lower then WoW and LoL skill wise, which rank even lower then RTS and FPS.
I'm gonna have fun in pvp too, its all i want to do besides sell stuff. But Dont be delusional.
I love pvp too. I hate magic finding. Only thing I did in d2 was hardcore or pvp. Just stating when people start talking about skill and stuff it just makes me rofl in real life because they actually believe d2 took skill.
I hate you.
I hope they revert this at least a little bit with PvP.
It will never require as much skills as a solid RTS / FPS but I'd love it to end up competitive at higher levels like other multiplayer games in the genre.
It doesnt matter too much in a hack and slash. What do you do differently? Move somewhere else? Climbing a ladder = time invested, not skill invested. I was first HC Witch on the last ladder of PoE. Was I more skilled then others? Maybe in not being stupid, but that skill curve/ceiling was about 1 inch high, I simply had a whole weekend to grind it out.
D2 is one of the lowest skill games you could even play. You hack n slash with mouse 1 and mouse 2 and move around. It would take more dexterity to play Pac Man, Pong, Asteriods, you name it. When people start talking skill and ability, I tell them to go play a game that actually requires that aka RTS and FPS. Not hack n slash co op magic find.
You can hate me all you want, doesnt stop the fact that diablo pvp ranks lower then WoW and LoL skill wise, which rank even lower then RTS and FPS.
I'm gonna have fun in pvp too, its all i want to do besides sell stuff. But Dont be delusional.
Lol skill doesn't matter. Thats evidence enough that you never played D2 cause their were so many leechers in there. Also I was in the top 100 for this ladder untill I stopped playing at lvl 89.
It doesnt matter too much in a hack and slash. What do you do differently? Move somewhere else? Climbing a ladder = time invested, not skill invested. I was first HC Witch on the last ladder of PoE. Was I more skilled then others? Maybe in not being stupid, but that skill curve/ceiling was about 1 inch high, I simply had a whole weekend to grind it out.
D2 is one of the lowest skill games you could even play. You hack n slash with mouse 1 and mouse 2 and move around. It would take more dexterity to play Pac Man, Pong, Asteriods, you name it. When people start talking skill and ability, I tell them to go play a game that actually requires that aka RTS and FPS. Not hack n slash co op magic find.
First of all, i think that everyone that deams other people "Dumb" or anything else that is negativ because of their oppinion of a computer game (no matter how cult it is) aren't worth anyones intrest.
But ill just say - no one is wrong, its a matter of preference.
Actually one way is wrong....and Blizzard realized it and fixed it. Having 1 guy stand around with all MF on and recieving all the benefits while the others recieved nothing in return is a horrible practice. While dividing your hard earned mf gear seems the wrong way, why should the guy with all the hard earned dps gear have to do all the work for you? Its a double sided sword, and your gear isnt magically on a higher scale simply becuase it has a stat you personally prefer.
Having one person benefit from magic find and 3 others suffer is a horrible design system for a co-op game, especially with real money involved. What would stop me from just standing around doing nothing and making free money/items while I studied and watched youtube? nothing. I would get all the benefits and suffer none of the consequences.
While it may not be the most super perfect Walgreen's commercial way of doing it(Ie averaging the magic find), it is the most fair and logical answer to a game that is meant to be played with other people. Now, youre subpar dps is offset by giving the people with good dps a bit of magic find. There subpar magic find is now offset by the fact they have dps to bring to the table.
It is the most fair system, and obviously Blizzard realized this and changed it.
Why are people complaining about this so much? Why do people think endgame they will simply load up 90000% magic find and be able to do the same dps as people who arent using magic find?
Not only that, does averaging not sound better then 1 700% leech doing absolutely no dmg standing around letting you kill all the mobs while he afk farms your group? I'd rather everyone benefit then 1 700% leech getting all the drops.
This is exactly what I would have done. I would have put on every piece of junk magic find blue garbage I could, and afk'd while you killed everything. Now, at least you benefit from having a leech like me in your party.
Not everyone here is gonna be pimped to the gills best on server magic find/items anyways, even though you talk like you are. The majority of you are actually going to benefit from this, considering the best gear being out of most of your reach unless you find it, and the kill speed probably rivals or surpasses what you would accomplish trying to be stingy with your gear.
I hope inferno is hard enough that a bunch of snobs try and group up with all magic find and just get raped.
Frankly because people are dumb.
They think they will outgear everyone else, which is hilarious, because everyone else thinks that too.
They also think that they are just flat out better than everyone else at the game or at least the majority. So, even if they are outgeared by some Chinese farmers or lifeless nerds, which are not real people in their eyes, they are still better.
Yea, this whole everyone leeching off their hard earned gear is comical. Most of them are going to be the ones leeching unless you fall into a few criteria for a large chunk start of the game. You either have: A lot of disposable income, A lot of luck on drops, or A huge huge chunk of free time to play. If you dont fall into 1 or more of these categories, then you are gonna be rocking mediocre gear for awhile until it actually starts saturating the market to the point you can afford to get it.
I know its cute having dreams and aspirations of being the best, but be real with yourself on what is actually going to be possible this early in the game, and remember how scarce items were in d2 before mass botting, dupers, rune words. You could only ever dream of owning a Windforce or a Grandfather for a very very long time. Same deal will apply in D3.
I remember being happy with my Cruel Bastard sword of Swiftness(I think) blue sword that was bad ass for a long time, because a Grandfather was still costing over or close to 1 grand.
Why are people complaining about this so much? Why do people think endgame they will simply load up 90000% magic find and be able to do the same dps as people who arent using magic find?
Not only that, does averaging not sound better then 1 700% leech doing absolutely no dmg standing around letting you kill all the mobs while he afk farms your group? I'd rather everyone benefit then 1 700% leech getting all the drops.
This is exactly what I would have done. I would have put on every piece of junk magic find blue garbage I could, and afk'd while you killed everything. Now, at least you benefit from having a leech like me in your party.
Not everyone here is gonna be pimped to the gills best on server magic find/items anyways, even though you talk like you are. The majority of you are actually going to benefit from this, considering the best gear being out of most of your reach unless you find it, and the kill speed probably rivals or surpasses what you would accomplish trying to be stingy with your gear.
I hope inferno is hard enough that a bunch of snobs try and group up with all magic find and just get raped.
Seems pretty cut and dry to me. He was forced to quit or fired. Ive seen it a hundred times over my working career. When things arent going right, someone has to pay. And as much as Blizzard like to say, "when its done" they expect it to still be done in a normal amount of time.
He was probably just a scapegoat for a majority of people.
So in essence, he was probably asked to resign or be fired. Almost everyone chooses resign, so they can get severance packages, good references, unemployment.
This shows a definite problem with only having internal testing.
The current beta we are in is nothing. They need normal game players, and people like the guys who found this out who look specifically for exploits to exploit.
I doubt the internal testers even think or worry about stuff like this.
DUDE I WOULD PLAY THE SAME CHARACTER FIFYT DIFFRENT TIMES!?!?!?!?!??! HAVE YOUNOT HEARD THAT EACH PLAYTHROUHG WILL HAVE DIFFRENT EVENTS?!!?!?!?!?! AM I THE ONLY ONE THAT WANTS TO SEE THEM ALL!!?!?!?!? geeezzeeee
How many do you actually think there is dude. I already said personally I think think the game is better this way and more fun, but it comes at a cost to its longetivity. I guess if they release 2-3 expansions over 5-6 years that will make up for it, but anyone and everyone has to agree the majority of your time in d2 was spent rerolling over and over.
As tedious as that was, and could be labled anti fun for some, it was the replayability. People always rerolled.
The overall game is improved by removing this, no doubt. However, what have they put in place to counter act this? I havent see anything they have added that will counteract the longetivity this gave the game. A few events will be blazed through very fast. This isnt wow, dont expect content patches. Maybe a few items added, but dont expect extra pieces of story, that will be years later in expansions.
I do have a feeling pvp will be fleshed out at some time to fix this though.
I see why they did what they did, and in playing the beta, it feels great to not have to reroll to try new skills out, or a new piece of gear. I think this is the more fun way to play the game at first.
However, I do agree that the replayability was ocmpletely gutted, and I just dont see d3 having the lifespan of d2 because of that. As tedious as the reroll was, that was probably what I spent most of my time doing in d2. Every time I got that new piece of gear, I would reroll my bowazon. Over and over.
While this was kind of tedious(it was still fun)it is where most of the replayability came from. Who seriously ran Baal runs for 5 hours a day? Hell most people botted items anyways, and just rolled characters.
Not to mention, not everyone wants to level every hero in the game. The WD does not interest me in the slightest, neither does a mage or barb since I have played those types since diablo 1.
People are forgetting this isnt World of warcraft. There isnt going to be content patches released. There will be expansions, but those are gonna come extremely late. Look at starcraft 2 expansions. You have to expect a content expansion at the very least 2-3 years after release.
I do think all the things they added were better for a game right now. They are a much better here and now fix. They will however negatively affect the game's longetivity and general life.
If you start later in the game's life you will probably miss out on parties and players for the majority of the game until hell/inferno, unless you are a Hardcore player. Just like wow, all the stuff they added that did make the game easier and better overall, made the world dead as hell, and made entire game happen from town. Very few people out in the world. Diablo 3 is gonna be very similar. People will not be rerolling characters, so you will be playing single player all the way up to boss runs in inferno if you start late.
I wont be playing this near as long as I played d2, and its a fact from the way the game is built. While its fun, and better this way, all the replayability outside hardcore and boss runs was took out, however tedious that aspect may have looked/been.
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I look forward to that simplicity again, kinda sucks no pub games like that anymore, but I look forward to that simplicity in Arena, hopefully.
Still doesnt take as much effort as WoW or LoL, which still rank below RTS and FPS. Keep dreaming if you think d3 pvp is going to require any modicum of real gaming ability. Thats like comparing Tom Brady to a world champion cup stacker. Especially Ladder climbing, that ranks below any game out there. That is simple time invested to the freakin max of skill. Bragging about climbing a ladder is like me bragging I dug 80k out on my Minecraft server. No. SKILL
Still doesnt take as much effort as WoW or LoL, which still rank below RTS and FPS. Keep dreaming if you think d3 pvp is going to require any modicum of real gaming ability. Thats like comparing Tom Brady to a world champion cup stacker.
Well, the key thing is even if they slack, it isnt a complete burden or unfairness on your team. Because lets face it, with the way the system is, either way there was gonna be some leeches that show up to your game and do nothing but collect free loot.
Only difference was before they were nothing but a burden. Now at least they contribute to giving you a bit better items, because most leeches outside of noobs will have magic find on. If I decided to leech, whether it was split or not I'd wear all the magic find I could find, so this way does at least take some of the sting out of the various farmers/bot/leechers that are goin to come into your game and stand around and collect loot.
Most people outside of complete noobs that want to leech will just stack MF and leech off your kills. Now, you leech off their magic find.
And like another poster said, the majority of players will probably have a little bit of magic find here or there, so once you take into account the kill speed a group gives you, it's probably not hurting you at all, and is probably even better then what you could do solo with stacked MF.
I love pvp too. I hate magic finding. Only thing I did in d2 was hardcore or pvp. Just stating when people start talking about skill and stuff it just makes me rofl in real life because they actually believe d2 took skill.
You can hate me all you want, doesnt stop the fact that diablo pvp ranks lower then WoW and LoL skill wise, which rank even lower then RTS and FPS.
I'm gonna have fun in pvp too, its all i want to do besides sell stuff. But Dont be delusional.
It doesnt matter too much in a hack and slash. What do you do differently? Move somewhere else? Climbing a ladder = time invested, not skill invested. I was first HC Witch on the last ladder of PoE. Was I more skilled then others? Maybe in not being stupid, but that skill curve/ceiling was about 1 inch high, I simply had a whole weekend to grind it out.
D2 is one of the lowest skill games you could even play. You hack n slash with mouse 1 and mouse 2 and move around. It would take more dexterity to play Pac Man, Pong, Asteriods, you name it. When people start talking skill and ability, I tell them to go play a game that actually requires that aka RTS and FPS. Not hack n slash co op magic find.
Actually one way is wrong....and Blizzard realized it and fixed it. Having 1 guy stand around with all MF on and recieving all the benefits while the others recieved nothing in return is a horrible practice. While dividing your hard earned mf gear seems the wrong way, why should the guy with all the hard earned dps gear have to do all the work for you? Its a double sided sword, and your gear isnt magically on a higher scale simply becuase it has a stat you personally prefer.
Having one person benefit from magic find and 3 others suffer is a horrible design system for a co-op game, especially with real money involved. What would stop me from just standing around doing nothing and making free money/items while I studied and watched youtube? nothing. I would get all the benefits and suffer none of the consequences.
While it may not be the most super perfect Walgreen's commercial way of doing it(Ie averaging the magic find), it is the most fair and logical answer to a game that is meant to be played with other people. Now, youre subpar dps is offset by giving the people with good dps a bit of magic find. There subpar magic find is now offset by the fact they have dps to bring to the table.
It is the most fair system, and obviously Blizzard realized this and changed it.
You cant have your cake and eat it too.
Yea, this whole everyone leeching off their hard earned gear is comical. Most of them are going to be the ones leeching unless you fall into a few criteria for a large chunk start of the game. You either have: A lot of disposable income, A lot of luck on drops, or A huge huge chunk of free time to play. If you dont fall into 1 or more of these categories, then you are gonna be rocking mediocre gear for awhile until it actually starts saturating the market to the point you can afford to get it.
I know its cute having dreams and aspirations of being the best, but be real with yourself on what is actually going to be possible this early in the game, and remember how scarce items were in d2 before mass botting, dupers, rune words. You could only ever dream of owning a Windforce or a Grandfather for a very very long time. Same deal will apply in D3.
I remember being happy with my Cruel Bastard sword of Swiftness(I think) blue sword that was bad ass for a long time, because a Grandfather was still costing over or close to 1 grand.
Not only that, does averaging not sound better then 1 700% leech doing absolutely no dmg standing around letting you kill all the mobs while he afk farms your group? I'd rather everyone benefit then 1 700% leech getting all the drops.
This is exactly what I would have done. I would have put on every piece of junk magic find blue garbage I could, and afk'd while you killed everything. Now, at least you benefit from having a leech like me in your party.
Not everyone here is gonna be pimped to the gills best on server magic find/items anyways, even though you talk like you are. The majority of you are actually going to benefit from this, considering the best gear being out of most of your reach unless you find it, and the kill speed probably rivals or surpasses what you would accomplish trying to be stingy with your gear.
I hope inferno is hard enough that a bunch of snobs try and group up with all magic find and just get raped.
He was probably just a scapegoat for a majority of people.
So in essence, he was probably asked to resign or be fired. Almost everyone chooses resign, so they can get severance packages, good references, unemployment.
The current beta we are in is nothing. They need normal game players, and people like the guys who found this out who look specifically for exploits to exploit.
I doubt the internal testers even think or worry about stuff like this.
How many do you actually think there is dude. I already said personally I think think the game is better this way and more fun, but it comes at a cost to its longetivity. I guess if they release 2-3 expansions over 5-6 years that will make up for it, but anyone and everyone has to agree the majority of your time in d2 was spent rerolling over and over.
As tedious as that was, and could be labled anti fun for some, it was the replayability. People always rerolled.
The overall game is improved by removing this, no doubt. However, what have they put in place to counter act this? I havent see anything they have added that will counteract the longetivity this gave the game. A few events will be blazed through very fast. This isnt wow, dont expect content patches. Maybe a few items added, but dont expect extra pieces of story, that will be years later in expansions.
I do have a feeling pvp will be fleshed out at some time to fix this though.
I see why they did what they did, and in playing the beta, it feels great to not have to reroll to try new skills out, or a new piece of gear. I think this is the more fun way to play the game at first.
However, I do agree that the replayability was ocmpletely gutted, and I just dont see d3 having the lifespan of d2 because of that. As tedious as the reroll was, that was probably what I spent most of my time doing in d2. Every time I got that new piece of gear, I would reroll my bowazon. Over and over.
While this was kind of tedious(it was still fun)it is where most of the replayability came from. Who seriously ran Baal runs for 5 hours a day? Hell most people botted items anyways, and just rolled characters.
Not to mention, not everyone wants to level every hero in the game. The WD does not interest me in the slightest, neither does a mage or barb since I have played those types since diablo 1.
People are forgetting this isnt World of warcraft. There isnt going to be content patches released. There will be expansions, but those are gonna come extremely late. Look at starcraft 2 expansions. You have to expect a content expansion at the very least 2-3 years after release.
I do think all the things they added were better for a game right now. They are a much better here and now fix. They will however negatively affect the game's longetivity and general life.
If you start later in the game's life you will probably miss out on parties and players for the majority of the game until hell/inferno, unless you are a Hardcore player. Just like wow, all the stuff they added that did make the game easier and better overall, made the world dead as hell, and made entire game happen from town. Very few people out in the world. Diablo 3 is gonna be very similar. People will not be rerolling characters, so you will be playing single player all the way up to boss runs in inferno if you start late.
I wont be playing this near as long as I played d2, and its a fact from the way the game is built. While its fun, and better this way, all the replayability outside hardcore and boss runs was took out, however tedious that aspect may have looked/been.