Don't worry dude.
I just wanted to be sure I didn't "steal" any of his suggestions because I read his thread and I knew that the infernal tower was similar to my Wave of Death idea (I suggested it just because you know... it another way to ask "Blizz implement an endless wave mode!!"), but I didn't see anything similar to DotO and Infernal Rift.
If I missed it it's only my fault and I really want to apologise with DamienJohn if that's the case.And don't worry about critics... if you have to just do it
Definitely no need for an apology Edriel! Although they share the same purpose (expanding endgame) your ideas here are very distinct and interesting.
I have to head out for a meeting right now but I'll read through in detail and leave some feedback when I'm home. But amazing presentation as per usual Edriel!
This is such an obvious (and wonderful) idea, I have trouble commenting on it other than to say: Well, duh!
Could we also have it take into account +elemental damage? Cool, thanks.
I forgot to mention that! But yeah, +Elemental Skills% should be included.
So I've been compiling a list of feedback and bugs to report for the Beta, but I just wanted to quickly share this as a QoL suggestion.
Cooldown Reduction, Resource Cost Reduction and +Skill% are all fantastic additions to the game, but I feel their benefits need more succinct representation in the UI. I really love that we can now view stat ranges on items when holding CTRL, so I thought, why not apply a similar function to Skill tooltips that shows their effective values. I made this quick mock-up as an example of how this display would function and what it would look like.
I feel this type of direct presentation makes those stats feel more tangible, while allowing for much more efficient theorycrafting.
Thanks man for making this, I really enjoyed your work on it and it is extremely well thought out. I would absolutely love to see this in Diablo 3, and it is consistent with some of the Competitive PvE elements we see Blizzard exploring. One thing I hope Hearthstone and Heroes of the Storm teach Blizzard (as well as watching League of Legends) is that competitive elements take games to a new level of community interest. It would be sad to think D3 would miss that opportunity.
Nice job here!
Cheers 0/
Totally agree with bolded statement!
I think implementing any ideas like these (or the great post MrMonstrosity put forward) is pretty unrealistic at this point in RoS' development, but I do hope the dev team recognize that competitive elements, rankings and ways to "test your might" would really work in the game's favor. In that respect, I'm hopeful that Ladder implementation and Nephalem Trials will debut at some point in the game's future. My "promo graphic" that I've pieced together here is somewhat of an embellishment on that whole prospect of competitive endgame, compartmentalized into it's own game mode.
This idea though really brings in an endgame everyone can enjoy ladder or no ladder. Ideas that really add some flavor and make me wanna actually do something instead of farm for ages.
That the intention! I'm glad you liked them Enty, thanks. "Endgame for Everyone"
As for what endgame means to me...Diablo endgame for me has always been to get at least one character of each class to a really high level, arm them up with great gear and make them badass strong. Since D3 has got me into Hardcore, that desire has pretty much doubled, but the main idea is pretty much the same. Thus, in order to make characters strong, they need more XP, more levels, more gear...and in the past, that has mostly come from farming/grinding runs.
Thanks for the great reply Cardinal. I definitely follow that same type of endgame philosophy within D3, with my ultimate goal being 10 (or 12 in RoS) characters maximized to the best of their abilities, one of each class in each league.
Just wanted to share this mock-up infographic I designed for a new endgame option within D3. I've been traveling quite a bit for work, so to deal with my Diablo withdrawals I've pieced this together based on some existing ideas I've seen within the community as well as some new ones of my own.
Would love to hear some feedback on the concept as well as thoughts on what endgame means to you in Diablo.
Why? The endgame in Diablo has always been about farming for better loot so you can farm for better loot.. better.
I agree! This is purely intended to augment that loot hunt we all know and love and extend the game's replayability, not replace it.
Why not just include Trials and Towers in Adventure Mode?
Good question. Each mode has a specific purpose that not everyone will be interested in, so overloading Adventure Mode with additional features feels like messy design to me. Story Mode = Enjoy the story, Adventure Mode = Play the item-hunt game (heart of Diablo franchise), Challenge Mode = Optional, augmentative content that extends the lifespan of the item-hunt game. But of course these modes could be joined, this is merely personal preference.
Does that mean no gear rewarded in Challenge Mode?
Yes. Only cosmetic rewards, competitive rankings and XP are offered in Challenge Mode. If Challenge Mode offered loot rewards, it would diminish the inherent purpose of Adventure Mode. The aim is to bring the heroes you've built into Challenge Mode to see what they can do, i.e; to improve your capabilities in Challenge Mode you need to farm Adventure Mode.
TL;DR: I like to compartmentalize.
Are Trials and Towers randomized to any extent?
No. By removing the random elements in regards to layouts, monster types and density, the Trials and Towers can serve as directly measurable content in a competitive sense. If random was at play, someone could simply perform well due to having "lucky RNG". So to summarize, randomization has been removed in Challenge Mode in order to level the playing field.
How does Difficulty work in relation to Trials and Towers?
Trials that are not affected directly by difficulty (like Race Trials) exist as static events that are played and ranked the same across all difficulty levels. Trials that contain monsters and are therefore affected by difficulty selection are ranked as per the difficulty in which the player achieved their result (see: Seasonal Leaderboards UI). Pandemonium Towers are capped on lower difficulties, higher ascension only becomes available with higher difficulties, with the Pandemonium Tower becoming "uncapped" on Torment VI.
The Tower is Endless?
Theoretically, yes. The increase in difficulty is dynamic up until the fixed rewards cease (Level 100), after that, each level sees a static increase (additive percentage) in Monster Damage and Hit Points. For the purpose of this concept let's say that's 5% per level, this means the most godly geared/skilled players can truly test their heroes to the absolute limits.
Couldn't you just skip mobs? Change to a more defensive spec for higher levels? And what happens when you die?
To access the next level you would be required to kill all the monsters on the current level. Skill selection would be locked from when you enter the Tower with a checkpoint every 25 Levels at which you can change your skill spec. These checkpoints also act as respawn points upon death, but they no longer appear after Level 100 (which would be very hard to reach as is).
Overall I haven't put too much thought into how tower progression would work, but I think losing all of your progress upon death would be a bit too much considering how long the climb is. I would love to hear some other ideas/suggestions regarding this!
What is this simultaneous instance nonsense?
When there are other players in your game and you choose to start a Trial or Tower, a dialogue box appears asking them if they would like to join in and challenge you. If they accept, they will be transported to their own instance of the same challenge. You are able to see the "ghosts" of other players according to where they are in their instance (see "Festering Circuit" race screenshot), but you have no direct affect on their game environment. For Tower Races, you would receive toast notifications in your chat each time a player reaches a new level.
Why not just have them in the same instance?
The competitive factor in Trials and Towers is based around how well each player performs, not how effectively you can impede your rivals. This is especially applicable to wave-type Trials and Pandemonium Towers, in which you can't have both characters in the same instance without it being Co-op.
Are the Bosses in Boss Time-trials different from their typical versions?
Yes, they would essentially be Uber versions of their normal encounters, with additional modifiers, more minions, larger HP pools etc.
Do Race Trials have other variables?
Races have additional factors in play outside of simply getting a character from point A to B. For example, Speed-boosting Nephalem Glory orbs can spawn along the route but might not always be in the most desirable of locations. In addition, obstacles such as Bear Traps and Barricades can impede your progress (another reason for separate instances). P.S- I love Mario Kart.
Uhh.. Where is PvP?
Ideally, Challenge Mode would also accomodate any type of future PvP implementation. I haven't included it in my concept as it's such a gigantic feature that it would probably need it's own infographic.
Of course! But we already knew cow level was in the game from datamining months ago. KingKongor is saying (and others are under the impression) that this is the actual cow level, I'm just saying I don't think that's the case.
I think you're on the money. What's more, I bet the fact that the bovines spawned in a rift is a bug that'll be ninja fixed, and that this can be considered an unintended leak. For it to be a true cow level, like you said, it'd have to be a contained area with its own theme.
The Cows in rifts are definitely not a bug, as there are also Rift Boss versions of the Cow King that are specific to Rifts (like how there is a "Crusader King" version of the Skeleton King), I've seen 3 so far.
Rifts contain virtually every asset in the game, so that means it pulls randomly from all the monsters and all the environments, i.e; I've seen Whimsy mobs spawn quite a few times now as well as rainbow environment tilesets. As a matter of fact I think Blizzard even showcased a Rift with whimsy spawns in some of their press-release screen shots.
This is still technically confirmation of the cow level, though. Where else would they come from?
Of course! But we already knew cow level was in the game from datamining months ago. KingKongor is saying (and others are under the impression) that this is the actual cow level, I'm just saying I don't think that's the case.
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I rolled 50% CHD after only 1 enchant.
Definitely no need for an apology Edriel! Although they share the same purpose (expanding endgame) your ideas here are very distinct and interesting.
I have to head out for a meeting right now but I'll read through in detail and leave some feedback when I'm home. But amazing presentation as per usual Edriel!
Also, do you mind if I add you in-game?
So I've been compiling a list of feedback and bugs to report for the Beta, but I just wanted to quickly share this as a QoL suggestion.
Cooldown Reduction, Resource Cost Reduction and +Skill% are all fantastic additions to the game, but I feel their benefits need more succinct representation in the UI. I really love that we can now view stat ranges on items when holding CTRL, so I thought, why not apply a similar function to Skill tooltips that shows their effective values. I made this quick mock-up as an example of how this display would function and what it would look like.
I feel this type of direct presentation makes those stats feel more tangible, while allowing for much more efficient theorycrafting.
Any thoughts on this? Or perhaps alternatives?
Edit: Dude, terrible spelling.
I think implementing any ideas like these (or the great post MrMonstrosity put forward) is pretty unrealistic at this point in RoS' development, but I do hope the dev team recognize that competitive elements, rankings and ways to "test your might" would really work in the game's favor. In that respect, I'm hopeful that Ladder implementation and Nephalem Trials will debut at some point in the game's future. My "promo graphic" that I've pieced together here is somewhat of an embellishment on that whole prospect of competitive endgame, compartmentalized into it's own game mode.
Thanks Dr!
It makes my eyes feel nice.
I'm starting to think that you and I are sharing some type of cosmic wavelength. Love the thread!
Just wanted to share this mock-up infographic I designed for a new endgame option within D3. I've been traveling quite a bit for work, so to deal with my Diablo withdrawals I've pieced this together based on some existing ideas I've seen within the community as well as some new ones of my own.
Would love to hear some feedback on the concept as well as thoughts on what endgame means to you in Diablo.
Direct Link: http://i.imgur.com/JadEbrk.jpg
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Why? The endgame in Diablo has always been about farming for better loot so you can farm for better loot.. better.
I agree! This is purely intended to augment that loot hunt we all know and love and extend the game's replayability, not replace it.
Why not just include Trials and Towers in Adventure Mode?
Good question. Each mode has a specific purpose that not everyone will be interested in, so overloading Adventure Mode with additional features feels like messy design to me. Story Mode = Enjoy the story, Adventure Mode = Play the item-hunt game (heart of Diablo franchise), Challenge Mode = Optional, augmentative content that extends the lifespan of the item-hunt game. But of course these modes could be joined, this is merely personal preference.
Does that mean no gear rewarded in Challenge Mode?
Yes. Only cosmetic rewards, competitive rankings and XP are offered in Challenge Mode. If Challenge Mode offered loot rewards, it would diminish the inherent purpose of Adventure Mode. The aim is to bring the heroes you've built into Challenge Mode to see what they can do, i.e; to improve your capabilities in Challenge Mode you need to farm Adventure Mode.
TL;DR: I like to compartmentalize.
Are Trials and Towers randomized to any extent?
No. By removing the random elements in regards to layouts, monster types and density, the Trials and Towers can serve as directly measurable content in a competitive sense. If random was at play, someone could simply perform well due to having "lucky RNG". So to summarize, randomization has been removed in Challenge Mode in order to level the playing field.
How does Difficulty work in relation to Trials and Towers?
Trials that are not affected directly by difficulty (like Race Trials) exist as static events that are played and ranked the same across all difficulty levels. Trials that contain monsters and are therefore affected by difficulty selection are ranked as per the difficulty in which the player achieved their result (see: Seasonal Leaderboards UI). Pandemonium Towers are capped on lower difficulties, higher ascension only becomes available with higher difficulties, with the Pandemonium Tower becoming "uncapped" on Torment VI.
The Tower is Endless?
Theoretically, yes. The increase in difficulty is dynamic up until the fixed rewards cease (Level 100), after that, each level sees a static increase (additive percentage) in Monster Damage and Hit Points. For the purpose of this concept let's say that's 5% per level, this means the most godly geared/skilled players can truly test their heroes to the absolute limits.
Couldn't you just skip mobs? Change to a more defensive spec for higher levels? And what happens when you die?
To access the next level you would be required to kill all the monsters on the current level. Skill selection would be locked from when you enter the Tower with a checkpoint every 25 Levels at which you can change your skill spec. These checkpoints also act as respawn points upon death, but they no longer appear after Level 100 (which would be very hard to reach as is).
Overall I haven't put too much thought into how tower progression would work, but I think losing all of your progress upon death would be a bit too much considering how long the climb is. I would love to hear some other ideas/suggestions regarding this!
What is this simultaneous instance nonsense?
When there are other players in your game and you choose to start a Trial or Tower, a dialogue box appears asking them if they would like to join in and challenge you. If they accept, they will be transported to their own instance of the same challenge. You are able to see the "ghosts" of other players according to where they are in their instance (see "Festering Circuit" race screenshot), but you have no direct affect on their game environment. For Tower Races, you would receive toast notifications in your chat each time a player reaches a new level.
Why not just have them in the same instance?
The competitive factor in Trials and Towers is based around how well each player performs, not how effectively you can impede your rivals. This is especially applicable to wave-type Trials and Pandemonium Towers, in which you can't have both characters in the same instance without it being Co-op.
Are the Bosses in Boss Time-trials different from their typical versions?
Yes, they would essentially be Uber versions of their normal encounters, with additional modifiers, more minions, larger HP pools etc.
Do Race Trials have other variables?
Races have additional factors in play outside of simply getting a character from point A to B. For example, Speed-boosting Nephalem Glory orbs can spawn along the route but might not always be in the most desirable of locations. In addition, obstacles such as Bear Traps and Barricades can impede your progress (another reason for separate instances). P.S- I love Mario Kart.
Uhh.. Where is PvP?
Ideally, Challenge Mode would also accomodate any type of future PvP implementation. I haven't included it in my concept as it's such a gigantic feature that it would probably need it's own infographic.
What's with the groan-worthy TV show references?
Because geeknerd.
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The Cows in rifts are definitely not a bug, as there are also Rift Boss versions of the Cow King that are specific to Rifts (like how there is a "Crusader King" version of the Skeleton King), I've seen 3 so far.
Rifts contain virtually every asset in the game, so that means it pulls randomly from all the monsters and all the environments, i.e; I've seen Whimsy mobs spawn quite a few times now as well as rainbow environment tilesets. As a matter of fact I think Blizzard even showcased a Rift with whimsy spawns in some of their press-release screen shots.
Of course! But we already knew cow level was in the game from datamining months ago. KingKongor is saying (and others are under the impression) that this is the actual cow level, I'm just saying I don't think that's the case.