I'm going to support the 1h/quiver setup. Yes, you have smaller hits, but you hit faster. You'll regenerate hatred faster and spam more spenders - it's a good tradeoff.
The only thing they need to fix is to scrap the runes that give increased hatred (there's literally no build that doesn't use one of them) and make all generators regen the same amount (5 hatred is good imho). Then we can have a choice.
The other drawback of small hits is the fact that you spend more time casting your builder. In many cases your builder does aoe, so the damage loss is magnified. Usually when you are using your builder nothing is really dieing. Unless you are fighting one monster at a time.
Aside from that, any kiting you do will significantly reduce the effectiveness of any attack speed bonuses. Combine that with the fact that you lose much less dps when your attack speed is slow, and you don't need to stand still and shoot near as much to mainain high dps, allowing you to take longer strides when you are kiting, thus making slow attack speed more survivable. (This is more aimed for Two Handers)
1. What is the optimal Crit chance vs Crit damage ratio? Even when I had 62% crit and only 300% crit damage my character sheet still showed crit chance as giving more overall sheet dps.
This is just me stating what everyone else says. For every 10% critical hit damage you should get 1% critical hit chance. So for you it seems like you would be best off around 450% critical hit damage and 45% critical hit chance. I suppose this also answers a part of your second question. The second crossbow allows me to get an additional 130% critical hit damage.
The reason it was telling you crit would give you more than critical hid damage is most likely because your critical hit damage was so low to begin with. This has a very similar interaction as skill damage / elemental damage / elite damage. Which also has a very similar interaction as squares and cubes. The area of a square will always be greater than the area of a rectangle, even though the perimeter is the same. (This was stated for fun because its true) All these stats are multiplicative. Ill give you an example of Skill / Elemental damage.
50% more skill damage and 50% more elemental damage multiplied will give you a 2500% Now lets say you have 40% more skill damage and 60% more elemental damage. You would think the net result is the same, but when you do the math you end up with 2400%. (It doesn't matter which one is bigger or smaller) The closer these numbers are to each other the higher the multiplier. Same applies to crit chance and crit hit damage. (Squares and cubes work in the same way O_o)
2. 1h/quiver vs 1h/1h - I have a nats wep in my main hand, if I use a 2nd xbow I gain 7% dps for -12% toughness. Is there any other benefit for dual wielding? I see the 1 hatred per sec in the archery passive but is that on its own worth making the switch?
I'm not really sure what your gear looks like so I can't really say if 7% vs 12% is a good trade off. My rule of thumb is don't enter T3 unless you have 15m toughness. I have done t4 but I have to play cautious, which is not what I like to do.
In my mind Nats/Calamity > Nats/Xbow = 2hXbow/Quiver > Bow/Quiver > 1h/Quiver (You will hit like a wet noodle and always be out of hatred)
In theory xbow / quiver is higher dps than xbow / xbow with the exception of calamity. A perfectly rolled quiver compares to a xbow like this
xbow: 750 dex / 1.0 hps / Crit Damage 130% / 15% IAS (The last slot will always be 10% damage which is just counted towards evening out your xbows). 15% skill damage is more skill dps than 130% crit damage, but that doesn't include your pets or builder.
It comes down to 5primary stats vs 4primary stats. The benefit in wearing the second xbow is nullified because quiver has more attack speed. The hatred bonus is gone because you get more hps on the quiver. Dex is equal. Realistically its a battle of 130% crit damage versus 15% skill damage and 10% crit and 5% attack speed. It's also very important that both your 1h cross bows have almost equal damage to avoid things like getting a chain of crits with your weak crossbow and normal hits with your strong one.
You will certainly hit harder with the second xbow, and personally I feel burst damage and damage per resource are highly undervalued by a lot of people. They see bigger numbers, so they must be doing more damage.
With all this said, 2h xbows and quiver xbows are very strong, just undervalued.
Sorry About the Bad Spelling and Grammar, my keyboard is having a holiday.
Also what in the world happened to the formatting. Even editing the BB code doesn't work :(.
Another way to make things more interesting and possibly more balanced would be to apply the elemental damage type to your weapon and remove damage types from abilities.
For example a lightning damage weapon will apply lightning damage effect to your ability.
Cold Weapon would apply some sort of a frost blast that would freeze or slow everything in a small area with a ton of burst, vs lighting that would just zap all the enemies win a small area for a ton of burst, possibly stunning them or doing a small discharge. Yes they sound like the same abilities, and in essence they should be with a small twist, but this will also allow for more versatility in terms of gearing.
Or another example could be cold arrow would pierce more enemies with a lighting weapon, whereas with a cold weapon it would do what it does now. With poison it would be more like contagion where the first enemy hit takes burst damage and rest get a dot debuff.
I assume this would take a lot of work to implement. So I don't actually see this coming. My examples are pretty stale, but I'm sure people that are much more creative than I can see this in a much brighter light.
1.27m dps with 36% cold damage, 28% elemental arrow and 15% elite damage..
Yes I do use cold :P.
Marauder 4pc ( Shoulders/Chest/Boots)
Natalya 3pc (Bow/Ring)
Azshera's 3pc (Gloves/Pants)
Aughild's 3pc (Bracers/Helm)
I'm kind of hoping cold arrow turns into lightning. And they buff lightning.
I do have more cold gear, but in the grand scheme of things it makes very little difference. I have run my numbers and the amount of dps I gain vs the amount of toughness I lose is much too high.
I wonder why everyone feels it is so difficult to create something like this.
The math is really simple.
The only place where the math becomes remotely difficult is when you are trying to figure out damage per minute, burst damage, and calculate damage based on cool down reduction, with actual rotations.
I feel the interface is going to take longer to create than the math itself.
Also all the links you have showed me do not show the things I actually wanna see.
Damage Per Minute
Burst Damage
Max/Min Hits Crits on specific Skills
Actual Skill DPS
I'm sure the last 2 are already out there, but those are the simplest calculations to get anyway.
Lightning skills should do what lightning skills do best. Arc. Which means the skills should just split off in all directions and just do lightning damage everywhere. Similar to the way Javazons use to work. Possibly change cold arrow to lightning damage.
Poison skills should be the highest damage skills out there, doing damage over time.
Fire should be full of explosions and some dot damage. Maybe some sort of a knock back. Great at medium sized aoe.
Phisical skills should probably the one that either does the most instant damage with some sort of a stun attached.
Cold Skills should probably have some sort of a synergy with with frozen targets. Maybe freeze enemies and have them take increased cold damage once they are frozen. Similar to shatter in wow. Either that or at least make the slow be something remotely useful. A synergy with fire would also be nice. Maybe do something like a builder / spender combo, where fire damage puts up a burn debuff on the mob, followed by a freeze that will take the mob take extra damage if it's burning.
Although in all honesty, I have very similar gear, with equal elemental and cluster arrow damage, but higher dps. I use a 2h xbow with the Archery talent and I crit for around 20 mil.
I have a verry similar rig, with a 780, and lag in the same places.
It's most likely a glitch in the nvidia/diablo programming.
Aside from that, any kiting you do will significantly reduce the effectiveness of any attack speed bonuses. Combine that with the fact that you lose much less dps when your attack speed is slow, and you don't need to stand still and shoot near as much to mainain high dps, allowing you to take longer strides when you are kiting, thus making slow attack speed more survivable. (This is more aimed for Two Handers)
- This is just me stating what everyone else says. For every 10% critical hit damage you should get 1% critical hit chance. So for you it seems like you would be best off around 450% critical hit damage and 45% critical hit chance. I suppose this also answers a part of your second question. The second crossbow allows me to get an additional 130% critical hit damage.
- The reason it was telling you crit would give you more than critical hid damage is most likely because your critical hit damage was so low to begin with. This has a very similar interaction as skill damage / elemental damage / elite damage. Which also has a very similar interaction as squares and cubes. The area of a square will always be greater than the area of a rectangle, even though the perimeter is the same. (This was stated for fun because its true) All these stats are multiplicative. Ill give you an example of Skill / Elemental damage.
50% more skill damage and 50% more elemental damage multiplied will give you a 2500% Now lets say you have 40% more skill damage and 60% more elemental damage. You would think the net result is the same, but when you do the math you end up with 2400%. (It doesn't matter which one is bigger or smaller) The closer these numbers are to each other the higher the multiplier. Same applies to crit chance and crit hit damage. (Squares and cubes work in the same way O_o)
2. 1h/quiver vs 1h/1h - I have a nats wep in my main hand, if I use a 2nd xbow I gain 7% dps for -12% toughness. Is there any other benefit for dual wielding? I see the 1 hatred per sec in the archery passive but is that on its own worth making the switch?It comes down to 5primary stats vs 4primary stats. The benefit in wearing the second xbow is nullified because quiver has more attack speed. The hatred bonus is gone because you get more hps on the quiver. Dex is equal. Realistically its a battle of 130% crit damage versus 15% skill damage and 10% crit and 5% attack speed. It's also very important that both your 1h cross bows have almost equal damage to avoid things like getting a chain of crits with your weak crossbow and normal hits with your strong one.
You will certainly hit harder with the second xbow, and personally I feel burst damage and damage per resource are highly undervalued by a lot of people. They see bigger numbers, so they must be doing more damage.
Sorry About the Bad Spelling and Grammar, my keyboard is having a holiday.With all this said, 2h xbows and quiver xbows are very strong, just undervalued.
Also what in the world happened to the formatting. Even editing the BB code doesn't work :(.
Damage is a survivability stat. The quicker things die the less chance they have to kill you. Not meant in a glass cannon kind of way.
Just me farming T2 Rift on Hardcore
http://youtu.be/HcwjQfC8A9Q
http://youtu.be/HcwjQfC8A9Q
For example a lightning damage weapon will apply lightning damage effect to your ability.
Cold Weapon would apply some sort of a frost blast that would freeze or slow everything in a small area with a ton of burst, vs lighting that would just zap all the enemies win a small area for a ton of burst, possibly stunning them or doing a small discharge. Yes they sound like the same abilities, and in essence they should be with a small twist, but this will also allow for more versatility in terms of gearing.
Or another example could be cold arrow would pierce more enemies with a lighting weapon, whereas with a cold weapon it would do what it does now. With poison it would be more like contagion where the first enemy hit takes burst damage and rest get a dot debuff.
I assume this would take a lot of work to implement. So I don't actually see this coming. My examples are pretty stale, but I'm sure people that are much more creative than I can see this in a much brighter light.
1.27m dps with 36% cold damage, 28% elemental arrow and 15% elite damage..
Yes I do use cold :P.
Marauder 4pc ( Shoulders/Chest/Boots)
Natalya 3pc (Bow/Ring)
Azshera's 3pc (Gloves/Pants)
Aughild's 3pc (Bracers/Helm)
I'm kind of hoping cold arrow turns into lightning. And they buff lightning.
I do have more cold gear, but in the grand scheme of things it makes very little difference. I have run my numbers and the amount of dps I gain vs the amount of toughness I lose is much too high.
The only defensive ability i have at this point is Perfectionist.
The raw survivability gain is too good.
The math is really simple.
The only place where the math becomes remotely difficult is when you are trying to figure out damage per minute, burst damage, and calculate damage based on cool down reduction, with actual rotations.
I feel the interface is going to take longer to create than the math itself.
Also all the links you have showed me do not show the things I actually wanna see.
Damage Per Minute
Burst Damage
Max/Min Hits Crits on specific Skills
Actual Skill DPS
I'm sure the last 2 are already out there, but those are the simplest calculations to get anyway.
Lightning skills should do what lightning skills do best. Arc. Which means the skills should just split off in all directions and just do lightning damage everywhere. Similar to the way Javazons use to work. Possibly change cold arrow to lightning damage.
Poison skills should be the highest damage skills out there, doing damage over time.
Fire should be full of explosions and some dot damage. Maybe some sort of a knock back. Great at medium sized aoe.
Phisical skills should probably the one that either does the most instant damage with some sort of a stun attached.
Cold Skills should probably have some sort of a synergy with with frozen targets. Maybe freeze enemies and have them take increased cold damage once they are frozen. Similar to shatter in wow. Either that or at least make the slow be something remotely useful. A synergy with fire would also be nice. Maybe do something like a builder / spender combo, where fire damage puts up a burn debuff on the mob, followed by a freeze that will take the mob take extra damage if it's burning.
I don't feel this would take too long to make, although I do tend to underestimate things.
Primarily: Damage Per Time, Skill Damage which includes the Skills you actually use and not white damage.
I was thinking of creating a website that can do this, but before I start I'd like to know if there is anything like that already out there.
If I do start, I will need input for many of the calculations, just to make sure my numbers are correct.
Although in all honesty, I have very similar gear, with equal elemental and cluster arrow damage, but higher dps. I use a 2h xbow with the Archery talent and I crit for around 20 mil.