It's not useless, but to get the most out of the set you definitely need Lion's Claw + Fist of Az'Turrasq for your weapons. They'll basically double your damage output. Each.
I played Uliana's only until I found all the pieces of the build, and it was just fine. You really feel each upgrade because they each had so much damage and/or survival. Lion's Claw, Fist of Az'Turrasq, Focus & Restraint, Binding of the Lost, Gungdo Gear. And your cube passives, The Flow of Eternity and Broken Promises.
If you want to play the build, you're fine starting out with just Uliana's, but you'll need to aim for those pieces for it to work at higher rift/torment levels.
I've just hit lvl 70 on my seasonal character (after a very, very long pause from this game) and an Ancient Lion's Claw dropped. I know I want to go for an Uliana build. From what I read, CDR and VIT (+ of course DEX and socket) are favored for weapons. However, I already have both stats on it right now.
My dilemna is this. Should I reroll the 7% CDR to get 10% CDR, or reroll the VIT in %DMG, risking to reroll it back into VIT if I need to?
Quote fromrathgood
I've been messing around with the Pillar of the Ancients and I found that Tzo Krin's Gaze makes a huge difference with this skill. It allows the pillar to be dropped anywhere on screen. When combined with items like Shard of Hate and The Fulminator, you can clear some packs before they ever reach you if running the movement slowing rune for MoC.
Now that I think about it, this item choice actually seems very nice since pillars do not seem to stack. Makes it so you can place them (almost) wherever you want without having to run around or overlapping 2 pillars. Combined with the Incense Torch of the Grand Temple mentionned below, that would make for one freakishly awesome AoE build.
Very good points and ideas from a lot of folks here. Thanks for the feedback. I'll edit the original post eventually with a better build based upon the provided feedback and further testing of some mechanics.
I'm still unsure as to how Sweeping Wind + Mythic Rhythm snapshotting works in the long run. I'm finding contradictory information as to if it loses the increased damage when another ability benefiting from MR is cast, or when it is refreshed via recasting it. If it loses the increased damage when casting WoL, this is bad as one of the main point of the build is to benefit as much as possible from MR.
I'm also not sure if pillars can be stacked for increased damage. My initial feeling is no, but this is based purely on feel and not in-depth analysis.
One would think that Mythic Rhythm is great for this skill but since you have to use 2 spirit generator rotations to generate enough spirit to use a pillar you actually miss out on 50% of MR's effectiveness (MR buff is applied every 3rd attack from a generator and you need 6 attacks to get the spirit for 1 use of a pillar.
You make a very valid point that to be effective, this build needs to generate enough spirit in 3 hits to recoup the cost of WoL. High spirit regen from skills, items orBand of the Rue Chambersappears to be a must.
I'm also a bit puzzled by the overall execution of the build. Using MoC active is probably good in groups, but solo a second pillar would be more efficient, or not?
My idea behind this build is to try and maximize the use of Mythic Rhythm to make it a viable option, hence cast WoL not as frequently as you'd cast LTK. I saw MoC as a way to boost the damage from all sources: Deadly Reach, Sweeping Wind and Wave of Light. With my gear setup, I have 100% uptime on MoC and 100% uptime on WoL. Pillars don't seem to stack, so more damage from all pillars cast. You're right when you say it's probably better in a group setting, but don't forget the Intimidation rune which reduces damage taken by 15%. There's a survival aspect to this choice, it's not all about damage.
There is a bit of a design problem between Mystic Rhythm and Epiphany. The nice thing with Epiphany is that you can spam spenders (to some extent) while it is up, but then most spenders don't benefit from MR.
You are right on this, these 2 skills don't seem to fit well together. The way I see it though that Epiphany with the Desert Shroud rune is an incredibly survival skill, and as stated in the original post, the main reason why I'm using it. Also, even if the second pillar does not benefit from MR, it's still more damage in the same amount of time. The idea behind using Epiphany is surviving, not dealing more damage. Dealing more damage is just icing on the cake.
However normally I'd recommend taking Mantra of Retribution with Transgression, and picking up the Unity passive - you gain 20% damage for yourself, and 5% damage and 10% attack speed for everybody in your group, without any reliance on the active effect of it (plus the Thorns damage will actually generate some DPS too, just that we can't quantify it).
Part of this build is centered around using MoC for the Intimidation rune. Although your proposition is good, I'd argue it makes for a different build altogether. The idea is to see if I can have 100% uptime on MoC and cast WoL after 3 hits, hence 100% uptime on MoC + WoL AoE. It might not work, maybe it's a bad idea, but I'm trying to find out if it works. Like I said, your proposition is interesting, but it's going in another direction.
guys, what do you think of bracers? is it worth to use reapers one instead of strongarms for more pillars, or it would be better to have +30% dmg on the pillar after knockback?
I'm not a huge fan of Strongarms, mainly because most yellow elite and bosses are immune to knockbacks, and champion packs usually die quite fast anyway. I'd rather use Reaper's Wraps for more spirit generation or Aughild's for the set bonus. Depends on the rest of your gear though.
This is kind of the problem Monks face, by the time you get to your first WoL, other classes have already killed the same pack of mobs you are engaging. Also while activating MR first before SW boosts its damage, starting with generators also mean you're likely to be using generators when already at full spirit. I don't know which way would be more efficient, perhaps pop a MoC first before activating MR. I tried WoL for a bit but found it to cost too much resource for not enough damage in return. I was running with a Barbarian and a Crusader on T4 and was only able to cast one WoL on each pack of mobs. Most packs are dead before the pillar does its full 3s duration. Fire WoL with Cindercoat may be better, but fire builds also favor LTK more.
I think Monks can use a mantra where, on activation, your resource costs are lowered, sort of like Crusader's Laws.
You can skip MoC and go straight for WoL after a dash in the middle of a pack. Works wonder too. I don't feel like I'm running low on spirit, ever. The Band of the Rue Chamber works wonder in this regard.As for Sweeping Wind, I can keep it up for a very long time without having to refresh. In fact, I quite rarely have to refresh it. There's plenty of things to dash into and destroy here and there.
Sorry, but why the hell would you want sweeping wind in this build. Imo replace it with Inner Sanctuary with Forgotten Palace for 30%+ damage and toughness, so you can get dps rune on Epiphany.
Also pick +100 spirit passive and +spirit items, maybe paragons. If you have around 300 spirit you dash into the pack, pop Epiphany and Inner Sanctuary than you make a prison for pack (5 pilars one by one). It kills T4/T5 pack almost instantly with good gear. Mythic Rhytm is nono sorry
If i count properly that is around 7500% weapon damage.
Sweeping is good passive damage. Always up, rarely have to refresh it. Destroys mobs even far away. Not that useful on elites, but then again, they die pretty fast.
Your suggestion of boosting spirit to cast more pillars is interesting. It's one of the reason why I hadn't decided on Transcendence over Exalted Soul yet. I'd be tempted to use Forgotten Palace though as keeping elites together is not that much of an issue. They die pretty fast, and if one gets aways, Epiphany can easily deal with it. But that might be a downside of using WoL over LTK, LTK stuns, WoL doesn't.
why do you use mantra activation effect? why it is worth to spend 50 spirit to buff pillar for 10 aditional % instead of using another pillar after 2-3 hits?
right now i can turn epiphany, do 3 hits with WitHF and then cast pillar. and thats going on the whole epiphany, without activating my mantra.
Good question. My initial thought was that I wanted to pick Transcendence over Exalted Soul, hence I had limited spirit. Casting 2 pillars with limited spirit is impossible, where it's possible to cast MoC + WoL and get back to full spirit before MoC runs out. SW and DR also both benefit from MoC, as do the procs from Thunderfury and Odyn Son. Not to mention everyone else in the party when playing in a group.
Deadly Reach – Scattered Blows (Spirit Generator) DR still is, unless proven otherwise, the SG with the highest On-Crit-Proc coefficient, hence the SG that will generate the most cyclones from SW. The changes made to Scattered Blows (all hits are now lightning) makes it even more valuable than before.
Mantra of Conviction – Intimidation (Mantra) MoC works well with Mythic Rhythm and I find Intimidation (-15% damage dealt by monsters) to be invaluable at my gear level, running mainly solo T4.
Dashing Strike – Way of the Falling Star (Mobility) Nothing special to say that hasn’t been said already. Just a very good skill to get out of trouble, or to run faster in empty corridors.
Wave of Light – Pillar of the Ancients (Spirit Spender) WoL costs a lot more spirit than Lashing Tail Kick, but since I’m using MoC and MR, I see this as an advantage. Damage wise, it out-performs LTK in AoE situations and performs similarly in single-target situations. It is also a lot easier to use as hits will rarely miss, if this is something you find important.
Epiphany – Desert Shroud (Offensive/Defensive) I’m not using cooldown reduction gear, so I’m not using it often. I save it for when I run into a particularly challenging elite pack to take less damage and kill it faster. Allows me to use WoL 2 times before recasting MoC.
Sweeping Wind – Cyclone (AoE) Not much to say here, I guess. A good skill I’ve always loved, and the best door opening spell in the game.
Passives
Transcendence, Seize the Initiative and One With Everything are all strong defensive skills. STI and OWE are mandatory in my opinion, while Transcendence works well when your Spirit goes into constant yo-yo mode.
Transcendence could be swapped for Exalted Soul. I’m not sure which is best yet, depends on your gear and other sources of healing.
Play-style
One of the reason I love the WoL + MoC + MR combination is that I feel like I’m fully taking advantage of MR. When I was using LTK, there were times when I could spam it, hence not every LTK hit was being buffed by MR. With this build every WoL used benefits of the bonus damage from MR.
The sequence is basically:
Activate Mythic Rhythm through 3 hits from Deadly Reach
Activate Sweeping Wind (so it benefits from MR)
Fully replenish spirit
Activate Mantra of Conviction
Drop Wave of Light
You now have approximately 0 spirit
Replenish spirit
Repeat steps 4 through 7
When Epiphany is activated, you can use 2 WoL during the time MoC is active. This makes it so only 1 in 2 WoL benefits from MR, but it’s still more damage.
Gear
I must specify that I use Band of the Rue Chambers which boosts my spirit generation. The build works well without it, but best with it. Everything falls in place more smoothly with the bonus spirit generation.
All-in-all, I’m rather new to using this build so feel free to comment and elaborate on it.
+% Damage not affecting Elemental Damage is a bug which is scheduled to be fixed in the next patch though. It's true that the base damage on it is about as low as it gets. I'm in no position to say though if you'll get more damage out of rerolling the base damage or rerolling RRC into +% Damage. I suck at theorymath.
I've played around with Odyn Son all week-end, and I gotta say, it is (seems?) a far superior weapon to Won Khim Lau. The proc is simply too good to pass, in my opinion, even with an average roll (refer to the original post for the stats I'm comparing).
With my current gear, the proc hits for 4 to 8 million. On 3 targets, or 3 times on the same. It's almost ridiculous. It's essentially like having a new skill, free of spirit cost. Everything hits a tad harder with my WKL, but the bonus damage on CS, etc., simply can't make up for 3x extra 8 million hits.
Paper DPS went down nearly 100k, but I "feel" it went up 100k.
Thanks for the answer WhoAmISc. I got all excited when it dropped, but I was thinking the lack of dexterity on it made it rather bad...
Interesting point regarding the proc on Fulminator. Now that I thing about it, 2x 20% bonus lighting damage does seem more interesting than the proc on Fulm.
Considering all of your 3 weapons are well rolled (dexterity and socket), I'd go with Fulminator and Odyn Son.
Won Khim Lau does not bring much to the table besides a bonus to lightning damage, which OS also has. Fulm. and OS both have procs, although if I'm not mistaken only OS's will benefit from % lightning damage, which are better than your WLK's LoH. And both your Fulm. and OS have higher base damage than your WKL, so more damage overall.
In your situation, I wouldn't even hesitate and go with Fulm. + OS.
I've been rolling with a TF/WKL combo for quite some time and Odyn Son dropped just now. Reading around the threads here, I noticed OS's proc is one of the few to benefit from % lightning damage, and I'm wondering which weapon would be best for me. My concern is OS rolled with no socket and no dexterity, so I'd have to do without dexterity. Does the proc and higher base damage outweigh the lack of dexterity? If I switch to OS, should I reroll the vitality or the area damage?
I know what you mean, I'm also addicted to it. While not the most efficient build out there, the one I'm using right now is definitely the most fun Monk build I've played since D3 released.
Fists of Thunder: Thunderclap
Mantra of Conviction: Overawe (switch to Intimidation on higher difficulty)
Dashing Strike: Barrage
Cyclone Strike: Eye of the Storm
Blinding Flash: Faith in the Light
Sweeping Wind: Cyclone
—
Transcendence, Beacon of Ytar, One with Everything
—
I tried maximizing Lightning % damage with this build, to take advantage of WKL.
Basically, DS in the middle of a group of enemies, MoC, BF and spam CS. DS a bit farther, refresh MoC, spam CS. Repeat. Sounds dumb on paper, in practice it's über fun. Against elites, you can rely on CS when you've created a good opening, DS to get out of stuff + use it as decent CD with Barrage, CS elites out of desecrates, etc.
I've tried this build without DS to use a more efficient, more powerful CD. It just doesn't work.
Of course the obvious answer to my very specific problem is: "get a cheap goddamn mouse", hahah! I agree it's kind of a stupid problem. I bring my own wireless mouse to work sometimes, most of the time I forget it. But I guess I just got kind of interested in this whole thing, which is, what is the least terrible second option to Overawe? Let's say I'm just lazy and I don't wish to press this spirit dump button, or that I'm doing it as some form of religious belief, who knows...
Anyway.
I understand Backlash is probably very situational, but then again, getting up close to enemies and (maybe) dodging stuff sounds like something I'm doing all the time playing a monk running this build. I guess the part that makes it terrible is the chance to trigger a meagre 35% weapon damage fire-based attack. I kinda like the concept of it though, sucks it ain't better.
As for Submission, I guess I'm just not understanding it correctly. Feel free to tell me to go read a guide or something, but is the 12% increased damage enemies take still baked in MoC when using Submission? Or is it all replaced by only the per second damage? Also, someone mentioned that it could be worth it considering high IAS. Is the "per second" part affected by attack speed?
Considering 150k DPS and ~50% dodge, what would amount to the most DPS between Mantra of Conviction w/ Submission and Mantra of Evasion w/ Backlash?
To make a long story short, I am running the cookie-cutter build: FoT w/ Thunderclap, MoC w/ Overawe, etc. MoC is mapped to my right mouse button and I use it as a spirit dump. I am not trying to come up with an alternative optimal build, but with an alternative build that will allow me to not use my right mouse button.
That'll probably sound stupid, but when doing quick runs at work, let's say during lunch time, I am stuck with using an Apple Magic Mouse. While it is a respectable working tool, it proves itself abysmally inadequate as a gaming device. I am unable to press the left and right mouse buttons at the same time. The result is I don't use Overawe, which is why I am trying to replace it with the best possible "passive" alternative.
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It's not useless, but to get the most out of the set you definitely need Lion's Claw + Fist of Az'Turrasq for your weapons. They'll basically double your damage output. Each.
I played Uliana's only until I found all the pieces of the build, and it was just fine. You really feel each upgrade because they each had so much damage and/or survival. Lion's Claw, Fist of Az'Turrasq, Focus & Restraint, Binding of the Lost, Gungdo Gear. And your cube passives, The Flow of Eternity and Broken Promises.
If you want to play the build, you're fine starting out with just Uliana's, but you'll need to aim for those pieces for it to work at higher rift/torment levels.
I've just hit lvl 70 on my seasonal character (after a very, very long pause from this game) and an Ancient Lion's Claw dropped. I know I want to go for an Uliana build. From what I read, CDR and VIT (+ of course DEX and socket) are favored for weapons. However, I already have both stats on it right now.
My dilemna is this. Should I reroll the 7% CDR to get 10% CDR, or reroll the VIT in %DMG, risking to reroll it back into VIT if I need to?
Thanks
Man, I'd like to get my hands on one of these to try it out.
I haven't played much lately, I'll have to test everything that's been discussed eventually.
I'm still unsure as to how Sweeping Wind + Mythic Rhythm snapshotting works in the long run. I'm finding contradictory information as to if it loses the increased damage when another ability benefiting from MR is cast, or when it is refreshed via recasting it. If it loses the increased damage when casting WoL, this is bad as one of the main point of the build is to benefit as much as possible from MR.
I'm also not sure if pillars can be stacked for increased damage. My initial feeling is no, but this is based purely on feel and not in-depth analysis.
You make a very valid point that to be effective, this build needs to generate enough spirit in 3 hits to recoup the cost of WoL. High spirit regen from skills, items orBand of the Rue Chambersappears to be a must.
My idea behind this build is to try and maximize the use of Mythic Rhythm to make it a viable option, hence cast WoL not as frequently as you'd cast LTK. I saw MoC as a way to boost the damage from all sources: Deadly Reach, Sweeping Wind and Wave of Light. With my gear setup, I have 100% uptime on MoC and 100% uptime on WoL. Pillars don't seem to stack, so more damage from all pillars cast. You're right when you say it's probably better in a group setting, but don't forget the Intimidation rune which reduces damage taken by 15%. There's a survival aspect to this choice, it's not all about damage.
You are right on this, these 2 skills don't seem to fit well together. The way I see it though that Epiphany with the Desert Shroud rune is an incredibly survival skill, and as stated in the original post, the main reason why I'm using it. Also, even if the second pillar does not benefit from MR, it's still more damage in the same amount of time. The idea behind using Epiphany is surviving, not dealing more damage. Dealing more damage is just icing on the cake.
Part of this build is centered around using MoC for the Intimidation rune. Although your proposition is good, I'd argue it makes for a different build altogether. The idea is to see if I can have 100% uptime on MoC and cast WoL after 3 hits, hence 100% uptime on MoC + WoL AoE. It might not work, maybe it's a bad idea, but I'm trying to find out if it works. Like I said, your proposition is interesting, but it's going in another direction.
I had forgotten about this Spirit Stone.. Awesome proposition! I haven't gotten one to drop yet though, so testing from me will have to wait.
Sweeping is good passive damage. Always up, rarely have to refresh it. Destroys mobs even far away. Not that useful on elites, but then again, they die pretty fast.
Your suggestion of boosting spirit to cast more pillars is interesting. It's one of the reason why I hadn't decided on Transcendence over Exalted Soul yet. I'd be tempted to use Forgotten Palace though as keeping elites together is not that much of an issue. They die pretty fast, and if one gets aways, Epiphany can easily deal with it. But that might be a downside of using WoL over LTK, LTK stuns, WoL doesn't.
Good question. My initial thought was that I wanted to pick Transcendence over Exalted Soul, hence I had limited spirit. Casting 2 pillars with limited spirit is impossible, where it's possible to cast MoC + WoL and get back to full spirit before MoC runs out. SW and DR also both benefit from MoC, as do the procs from Thunderfury and Odyn Son. Not to mention everyone else in the party when playing in a group.
Here’s the build I’m currently using:
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/calculator/monk#bkdePS!YXUi!bZacac
Skills
Deadly Reach – Scattered Blows (Spirit Generator)
DR still is, unless proven otherwise, the SG with the highest On-Crit-Proc coefficient, hence the SG that will generate the most cyclones from SW. The changes made to Scattered Blows (all hits are now lightning) makes it even more valuable than before.
Mantra of Conviction – Intimidation (Mantra)
MoC works well with Mythic Rhythm and I find Intimidation (-15% damage dealt by monsters) to be invaluable at my gear level, running mainly solo T4.
Dashing Strike – Way of the Falling Star (Mobility)
Nothing special to say that hasn’t been said already. Just a very good skill to get out of trouble, or to run faster in empty corridors.
Wave of Light – Pillar of the Ancients (Spirit Spender)
WoL costs a lot more spirit than Lashing Tail Kick, but since I’m using MoC and MR, I see this as an advantage. Damage wise, it out-performs LTK in AoE situations and performs similarly in single-target situations. It is also a lot easier to use as hits will rarely miss, if this is something you find important.
Epiphany – Desert Shroud (Offensive/Defensive)
I’m not using cooldown reduction gear, so I’m not using it often. I save it for when I run into a particularly challenging elite pack to take less damage and kill it faster. Allows me to use WoL 2 times before recasting MoC.
Sweeping Wind – Cyclone (AoE)
Not much to say here, I guess. A good skill I’ve always loved, and the best door opening spell in the game.
Passives
Transcendence, Seize the Initiative and One With Everything are all strong defensive skills. STI and OWE are mandatory in my opinion, while Transcendence works well when your Spirit goes into constant yo-yo mode.
Transcendence could be swapped for Exalted Soul. I’m not sure which is best yet, depends on your gear and other sources of healing.
Play-style
One of the reason I love the WoL + MoC + MR combination is that I feel like I’m fully taking advantage of MR. When I was using LTK, there were times when I could spam it, hence not every LTK hit was being buffed by MR. With this build every WoL used benefits of the bonus damage from MR.
The sequence is basically:
- Activate Mythic Rhythm through 3 hits from Deadly Reach
- Activate Sweeping Wind (so it benefits from MR)
- Fully replenish spirit
- Activate Mantra of Conviction
- Drop Wave of Light
- You now have approximately 0 spirit
- Replenish spirit
- Repeat steps 4 through 7
When Epiphany is activated, you can use 2 WoL during the time MoC is active. This makes it so only 1 in 2 WoL benefits from MR, but it’s still more damage.Gear
I must specify that I use Band of the Rue Chambers which boosts my spirit generation. The build works well without it, but best with it. Everything falls in place more smoothly with the bonus spirit generation.
All-in-all, I’m rather new to using this build so feel free to comment and elaborate on it.
With my current gear, the proc hits for 4 to 8 million. On 3 targets, or 3 times on the same. It's almost ridiculous. It's essentially like having a new skill, free of spirit cost. Everything hits a tad harder with my WKL, but the bonus damage on CS, etc., simply can't make up for 3x extra 8 million hits.
Paper DPS went down nearly 100k, but I "feel" it went up 100k.
Interesting point regarding the proc on Fulminator. Now that I thing about it, 2x 20% bonus lighting damage does seem more interesting than the proc on Fulm.
Won Khim Lau does not bring much to the table besides a bonus to lightning damage, which OS also has. Fulm. and OS both have procs, although if I'm not mistaken only OS's will benefit from % lightning damage, which are better than your WLK's LoH. And both your Fulm. and OS have higher base damage than your WKL, so more damage overall.
In your situation, I wouldn't even hesitate and go with Fulm. + OS.
(WLK is rerolled, OS is not)
Fists of Thunder: Thunderclap
Mantra of Conviction: Overawe (switch to Intimidation on higher difficulty)
Dashing Strike: Barrage
Cyclone Strike: Eye of the Storm
Blinding Flash: Faith in the Light
Sweeping Wind: Cyclone
—
Transcendence, Beacon of Ytar, One with Everything
—
I tried maximizing Lightning % damage with this build, to take advantage of WKL.
Basically, DS in the middle of a group of enemies, MoC, BF and spam CS. DS a bit farther, refresh MoC, spam CS. Repeat. Sounds dumb on paper, in practice it's über fun. Against elites, you can rely on CS when you've created a good opening, DS to get out of stuff + use it as decent CD with Barrage, CS elites out of desecrates, etc.
I've tried this build without DS to use a more efficient, more powerful CD. It just doesn't work.
Anyway.
I understand Backlash is probably very situational, but then again, getting up close to enemies and (maybe) dodging stuff sounds like something I'm doing all the time playing a monk running this build. I guess the part that makes it terrible is the chance to trigger a meagre 35% weapon damage fire-based attack. I kinda like the concept of it though, sucks it ain't better.
As for Submission, I guess I'm just not understanding it correctly. Feel free to tell me to go read a guide or something, but is the 12% increased damage enemies take still baked in MoC when using Submission? Or is it all replaced by only the per second damage? Also, someone mentioned that it could be worth it considering high IAS. Is the "per second" part affected by attack speed?
To make a long story short, I am running the cookie-cutter build: FoT w/ Thunderclap, MoC w/ Overawe, etc. MoC is mapped to my right mouse button and I use it as a spirit dump. I am not trying to come up with an alternative optimal build, but with an alternative build that will allow me to not use my right mouse button.
That'll probably sound stupid, but when doing quick runs at work, let's say during lunch time, I am stuck with using an Apple Magic Mouse. While it is a respectable working tool, it proves itself abysmally inadequate as a gaming device. I am unable to press the left and right mouse buttons at the same time. The result is I don't use Overawe, which is why I am trying to replace it with the best possible "passive" alternative.