It's great to see how much detail is put into each and every game mechanic, and to see how much thought is put into them. When Blizzard releases their games Starcraft II and Diablo III, it will be making a statement that games need to be stepped up even more, some companies might fail because they don't have the resources, but I can bet that games will be put to a new standard if Diablo 3 turns out the way we think it is turning out.
(also, if they release the games with a difference of a few months they will probably dominate other game companies financially for that year)
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Not Even Death Can Save You From Me" ~ Diablo (II)
Blizzard hasn't released a new IP nor implemented a new mechanic since 2000. They're not raising any bars as far as I'm concerned. They're simply using the money they already have. In my opinion, they are using it very badly.
And SCII and DIII are not out yet. Let's start talking about them when they do come out.
Blizzard hasn't released a new IP nor implemented a new mechanic since 2000. They're not raising any bars as far as I'm concerned. They're simply using the money they already have. In my opinion, they are using it very badly.
And SCII and DIII are not out yet. Let's start talking about them when they do come out.
Imo WoW have raised the bar for MMORPGs in 2 aspects:
-Before wow mmorpg's public were divided between bot users, hardcore players that played like 10 hours a day and casual players that stopped to play in a small amount of time because they couldn't compete with the other 2 groups. With wow the mmorpg public are now divide between players that have no time/patience to raid and players that play it casually in low ranking arenas and doing quests and once in a while, do a raid.
Blizzard concern in reduce the amount of time a player must play to be sucefull in WoW is a really good thing. Really, in a game like Lineage 2, the top players played like 12 hours/day (and use bots in the other 12 hours). My bro pally's have top tier equipament and raided all the content and he playes 3 hours a day. Huge difference if you ask me.
-Service. WoW are the mmorpg with the smallest latency problem, best anti-hack and surely most receptive and dedicated GMs out there.
I'm a mmorpg player since Ultima Online and imo wow brought some important concepts to the genre.
Imo WoW have raised the bar for MMORPGs in 2 aspects:
-Before wow mmorpg's public were divided between bot users, hardcore players that played like 10 hours a day and casual players that stopped to play in a small amount of time because they couldn't compete with the other 2 groups. With wow the mmorpg public are now divide between players that have no time/patience to raid and players that play it casually in low ranking arenas and doing quests and once in a while, do a raid.
Blizzard concern in reduce the amount of time a player must play to be sucefull in WoW is a really good thing. Really, in a game like Lineage 2, the top players played like 12 hours/day (and use bots in the other 12 hours). My bro pally's have top tier equipament and raided all the content and he playes 3 hours a day. Huge difference if you ask me.
-Service. WoW are the mmorpg with the smallest latency problem, best anti-hack and surely most receptive and dedicated GMs out there.
I'm a mmorpg player since Ultima Online and imo wow brought some important concepts to the genre.
What I really enjoyed about Diablo2 lod was that it was probably the easiest rpg to level up in (past 25), well, while grinding..nonetheless it was easy to level compared to other games that take a crap load of hours to gain one level. The game was more about mf'ing.. you could be level 95 and suck..
This is the diablo community, there will be players that will play 24/7 till they've seen every aspect of the game, that is the gaming world, I don't have time to play like I used to...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Not Even Death Can Save You From Me" ~ Diablo (II)
Before wow mmorpg's public were divided between bot users, hardcore players that played like 10 hours a day and casual players that stopped to play in a small amount of time because they couldn't compete with the other 2 groups. With wow the mmorpg public are now divide between players that have no time/patience to raid and players that play it casually in low ranking arenas and doing quests and once in a while, do a raid.
Blizzard concern in reduce the amount of time a player must play to be sucefull in WoW is a really good thing. Really, in a game like Lineage 2, the top players played like 12 hours/day (and use bots in the other 12 hours). My bro pally's have top tier equipament and raided all the content and he playes 3 hours a day. Huge difference if you ask me.
I always found playing WoW required too much time... It usually took at least a half hour to just to start an instance and Raids often dragged on for 4+ hours before they were farmable... Those were some of the main reason I always quit playing. I understand that you can progress faster joining a guild that already has most content on farm, but I like to accomplish those kinds of feats on my own, and to do that in WoW requires a great deal of time input. I'd say WoW has a thriving hardcore player community.
The PvP is less time consuming, but then again its never got to a point of being well balanced. Unfortionately my favourite class was at the top of performance when I first rolled and now is likely one of the worst 2 classes. Now the arena makes PvP more like raiding in time consumption and required play at certain hours.
I like sports, but do to an erratic schedual I find it impossible to join a league for play. Having a videogame designed so that it has similar time requirements doesn't qualify as good design in my oppinion. That is one reason why I'm really looking forward to D3, it shouldn't have those kinds of limitations for play, allowing the game to be far more casual then WoW.
I was rated as number one geared character on the server for a couple of days, and I only play about four days a week.
And raids do not take 4+ hours. Get yourself a guild that has flexible schedules and raids up to three hours a day and up to three days a week and that's it. It's not how the game is organized, it's how your guild is organized.
I was rated as number one geared character on the server for a couple of days, and I only play about four days a week.
And raids do not take 4+ hours. Get yourself a guild that has flexible schedules and raids up to three hours a day and up to three days a week and that's it. It's not how the game is organized, it's how your guild is organized.
This!!!!.. I was considered hardcore for a long time....I was barely on except for raids lol, if you have a good guild with a good sheduale raids go by REALLY fast and you will rarely wipe.
Back on topic, I think that sc2 and D3 will certainly raise the bar again similar to how there previous versions did....well they probably wont have as big an impact but there certainly going to be extremely high quality games like all blizzards other products...at least I hope lol
As an ex-WoW player, to me also WoW took up too much time. But you know what? A lot of that is based on how much time a player is willing to spend playing WoW. I was rather addicted, so I poured all my time into it. Worked on professions, pvp'd, raided, ran 5-man heroics. WoW has things to do, always, that's the design of an MMO, but it's pretty important to not do what I did. Pace yourself, and it's just like any other game. With a subscription of course.
Raiding takes as long as your guild wants it to. Only the hardcore guilds raid 6 hours a day, 5 days a week. And once your guild has progressed far enough to have raids on farm, that generally gets pushed down to 3 hours a day, 2 or 3 times a week. There are also casual guilds that raid only a couple of hours a day, a couple days a week.
Also the raiding/5-man design has changed considerably in Wrath of the Lich King. Most 5-man dungeons you can do in under an hour, even heroics. And now there are 10-man raids for every 25-man raid dungeon, which also lessens the effort and commitment to big hardcore guilds (but not necessarily the time commitment, depends on your guild).
Raiding takes as long as your guild wants it to. Only the hardcore guilds raid 6 hours a day, 5 days a week. And once your guild has progressed far enough to have raids on farm, that generally gets pushed down to 3 hours a day, 2 or 3 times a week. There are also casual guilds that raid only a couple of hours a day, a couple days a week.
When was there ever enough raiding content to do THAT much raiding every day of the week
Actually the OP is right on target. Blizzard IS raising the bar with their new games.
While Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 aren't really doing anything new or inventive, you need to bear in mind that they're making SEQUELS. The idea of a sequel is to take the "style" of the old game, revamp it with graphical updates, take out failed mechanics and implement better ones, and basically bring the series up-to-date. Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 are beautiful games with mechanics that everyone knows will be effective. If the games are as fun to play as everyone thinks they will, then the bar really will be set higher thanks to Blizzard.
There are so many games out there that are just failing miserably. The companies that are shoveling this shit out their doorways and onto our gaming platforms don't understand that it takes more than a large budget to make a good game.
Again, people are complaining because Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 aren't super-duper original, well if they WERE super-duper original then they wouldn't be SEQUELS! What you have to bear in mind is that Starcraft and Diablo 2 were massively successful because they were nearly perfect. If you take a nearly perfect game and make it perfect with better graphics and great mechanics then I would call that raising the bar.
So the only thing raising the bar then would be better graphics? Or that they are sequels? Or that the previous games were supposedly perfect? Or what you assume the mechanics will be? I'm not getting it.
What I'm saying is that Blizzard already had set the bar very high with the original games. These sequels are going to be better polished, they'll feel better, they'll work better... that's what you would call "raising the bar". I've never seen another game studio make games the way Blizzard does. They're all gamers just like us, and they know exactly what they would want in a game, and they don't stop until it's in there. Then once their awesome game is released they keep polishing it, and polishing it. Blizzard raises the bar all day every day.
Blizzard are raising the bar, no doubt. They did with Diablo 1 and 2, starcraft 1, and warcraft 1, 2, and 3. And ofcourse WOW.
And i have no doubt that Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2 will raise the bar again, what other rts can anyone compare with what we have seen so far from Sc2?... Warcraft 3 (or sc1).
What other Rpg can we compare to what we have seen so far from D3?... Diablo 2.
Actually the OP is right on target. Blizzard IS raising the bar with their new games.
While Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 aren't really doing anything new or inventive, you need to bear in mind that they're making SEQUELS. The idea of a sequel is to take the "style" of the old game, revamp it with graphical updates, take out failed mechanics and implement better ones, and basically bring the series up-to-date. Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 are beautiful games with mechanics that everyone knows will be effective. If the games are as fun to play as everyone thinks they will, then the bar really will be set higher thanks to Blizzard.
There are so many games out there that are just failing miserably. The companies that are shoveling this shit out their doorways and onto our gaming platforms don't understand that it takes more than a large budget to make a good game.
Again, people are complaining because Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 aren't super-duper original, well if they WERE super-duper original then they wouldn't be SEQUELS! What you have to bear in mind is that Starcraft and Diablo 2 were massively successful because they were nearly perfect. If you take a nearly perfect game and make it perfect with better graphics and great mechanics then I would call that raising the bar.
well thanks for trying to explain my point..
To the guy below you, they AREN'T only updated graphics, they are looking through EACH AND EVERY mechanic and making a clever way to fix it.
Ex. Potions spamming = Orbs
Ex. Barbarian mana bar = fury bar, which seems like a way better idea
Ex. Failed runes in D2 = Skill runes
Ex. Failed stats management = auto stats, which apparently play a role we don't know about yet..
I can go on, but, its endless... Obviously, most of these things are the reasons we loved Diablo, but they are taking those things and making it BETTER, and more accessible. They are making the game filled with traps, minibosses everywhere.
I don't think I've ever seen a company put this much attention to small details like those in a sequel.. If another company was remaking this game they would say, hey they loved the game so it means that this potion belt is fine as is, lets remake the graphics, and update some AI, maybe throw in some cinematic and call it a year...
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Not Even Death Can Save You From Me" ~ Diablo (II)
I was rated as number one geared character on the server for a couple of days, and I only play about four days a week.
And raids do not take 4+ hours. Get yourself a guild that has flexible schedules and raids up to three hours a day and up to three days a week and that's it. It's not how the game is organized, it's how your guild is organized.
Your probably right. The main thing always making accomplishing anything was always being on a low pop server (limiting the number of talented people available). It wasn't so much the guilds structure (well it was, but given server circumstances...), we were the 4th most progressed guild (after WotLK, not before) .The smaller guild meant we raided when we had the characters to do it, and tried to accomplish as much as we could in those times. Many raids do take 4+ hours initially, when learning the newest content, if you even finish. With WotLK there was more learning involved.
More on topic: But reguardless of exactly how long a raid should take, WoW is designed in a way so that you are obligated to play for extended periods unless you don't mind inconveniancing others. Thats one of the very nice things about diablo/SC2, from day to day you can play it as casually or as hardcore as you wish without the same consequences.
Quote from Number1SuperGuy »
Actually the OP is right on target. Blizzard IS raising the bar with their new games.
While Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 aren't really doing anything new or inventive, you need to bear in mind that they're making SEQUELS.
Diablo3 is definately pushing the bar with how much they are putting into the graphics and character ineraction with the enemies/environment. While I think that physics based death sequences and the like are nice but minor touches, those kinds of features certainly are pushing the bar for expectations on future games and exactly what is possible for developement.
There is also some heavy revamps to systems many people would not have considered. The changing of potions to orbs is a perfect example. Inventory is the same sort of change. I think that they deserve credit for looking at those previous systems and saying 'they worked, but we can make them better'.
(also, if they release the games with a difference of a few months they will probably dominate other game companies financially for that year)
And SCII and DIII are not out yet. Let's start talking about them when they do come out.
Imo WoW have raised the bar for MMORPGs in 2 aspects:
-Before wow mmorpg's public were divided between bot users, hardcore players that played like 10 hours a day and casual players that stopped to play in a small amount of time because they couldn't compete with the other 2 groups. With wow the mmorpg public are now divide between players that have no time/patience to raid and players that play it casually in low ranking arenas and doing quests and once in a while, do a raid.
Blizzard concern in reduce the amount of time a player must play to be sucefull in WoW is a really good thing. Really, in a game like Lineage 2, the top players played like 12 hours/day (and use bots in the other 12 hours). My bro pally's have top tier equipament and raided all the content and he playes 3 hours a day. Huge difference if you ask me.
-Service. WoW are the mmorpg with the smallest latency problem, best anti-hack and surely most receptive and dedicated GMs out there.
I'm a mmorpg player since Ultima Online and imo wow brought some important concepts to the genre.
What I really enjoyed about Diablo2 lod was that it was probably the easiest rpg to level up in (past 25), well, while grinding..nonetheless it was easy to level compared to other games that take a crap load of hours to gain one level. The game was more about mf'ing.. you could be level 95 and suck..
This is the diablo community, there will be players that will play 24/7 till they've seen every aspect of the game, that is the gaming world, I don't have time to play like I used to...
The PvP is less time consuming, but then again its never got to a point of being well balanced. Unfortionately my favourite class was at the top of performance when I first rolled and now is likely one of the worst 2 classes. Now the arena makes PvP more like raiding in time consumption and required play at certain hours.
I like sports, but do to an erratic schedual I find it impossible to join a league for play. Having a videogame designed so that it has similar time requirements doesn't qualify as good design in my oppinion. That is one reason why I'm really looking forward to D3, it shouldn't have those kinds of limitations for play, allowing the game to be far more casual then WoW.
And raids do not take 4+ hours. Get yourself a guild that has flexible schedules and raids up to three hours a day and up to three days a week and that's it. It's not how the game is organized, it's how your guild is organized.
This!!!!.. I was considered hardcore for a long time....I was barely on except for raids lol, if you have a good guild with a good sheduale raids go by REALLY fast and you will rarely wipe.
Back on topic, I think that sc2 and D3 will certainly raise the bar again similar to how there previous versions did....well they probably wont have as big an impact but there certainly going to be extremely high quality games like all blizzards other products...at least I hope lol
Warhammer Online: Mystics - R40/RR41 Goblin Shaman
Raiding takes as long as your guild wants it to. Only the hardcore guilds raid 6 hours a day, 5 days a week. And once your guild has progressed far enough to have raids on farm, that generally gets pushed down to 3 hours a day, 2 or 3 times a week. There are also casual guilds that raid only a couple of hours a day, a couple days a week.
Also the raiding/5-man design has changed considerably in Wrath of the Lich King. Most 5-man dungeons you can do in under an hour, even heroics. And now there are 10-man raids for every 25-man raid dungeon, which also lessens the effort and commitment to big hardcore guilds (but not necessarily the time commitment, depends on your guild).
Warhammer Online: Mystics - R40/RR41 Goblin Shaman
When was there ever enough raiding content to do THAT much raiding every day of the week
While Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 aren't really doing anything new or inventive, you need to bear in mind that they're making SEQUELS. The idea of a sequel is to take the "style" of the old game, revamp it with graphical updates, take out failed mechanics and implement better ones, and basically bring the series up-to-date. Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 are beautiful games with mechanics that everyone knows will be effective. If the games are as fun to play as everyone thinks they will, then the bar really will be set higher thanks to Blizzard.
There are so many games out there that are just failing miserably. The companies that are shoveling this shit out their doorways and onto our gaming platforms don't understand that it takes more than a large budget to make a good game.
Again, people are complaining because Starcraft 2 and Diablo 3 aren't super-duper original, well if they WERE super-duper original then they wouldn't be SEQUELS! What you have to bear in mind is that Starcraft and Diablo 2 were massively successful because they were nearly perfect. If you take a nearly perfect game and make it perfect with better graphics and great mechanics then I would call that raising the bar.
What I'm saying is that Blizzard already had set the bar very high with the original games. These sequels are going to be better polished, they'll feel better, they'll work better... that's what you would call "raising the bar". I've never seen another game studio make games the way Blizzard does. They're all gamers just like us, and they know exactly what they would want in a game, and they don't stop until it's in there. Then once their awesome game is released they keep polishing it, and polishing it. Blizzard raises the bar all day every day.
And i have no doubt that Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2 will raise the bar again, what other rts can anyone compare with what we have seen so far from Sc2?... Warcraft 3 (or sc1).
What other Rpg can we compare to what we have seen so far from D3?... Diablo 2.
Seriously... all other games suck.
well thanks for trying to explain my point..
To the guy below you, they AREN'T only updated graphics, they are looking through EACH AND EVERY mechanic and making a clever way to fix it.
Ex. Potions spamming = Orbs
Ex. Barbarian mana bar = fury bar, which seems like a way better idea
Ex. Failed runes in D2 = Skill runes
Ex. Failed stats management = auto stats, which apparently play a role we don't know about yet..
I can go on, but, its endless... Obviously, most of these things are the reasons we loved Diablo, but they are taking those things and making it BETTER, and more accessible. They are making the game filled with traps, minibosses everywhere.
I don't think I've ever seen a company put this much attention to small details like those in a sequel.. If another company was remaking this game they would say, hey they loved the game so it means that this potion belt is fine as is, lets remake the graphics, and update some AI, maybe throw in some cinematic and call it a year...
More on topic: But reguardless of exactly how long a raid should take, WoW is designed in a way so that you are obligated to play for extended periods unless you don't mind inconveniancing others. Thats one of the very nice things about diablo/SC2, from day to day you can play it as casually or as hardcore as you wish without the same consequences.
Diablo3 is definately pushing the bar with how much they are putting into the graphics and character ineraction with the enemies/environment. While I think that physics based death sequences and the like are nice but minor touches, those kinds of features certainly are pushing the bar for expectations on future games and exactly what is possible for developement.
There is also some heavy revamps to systems many people would not have considered. The changing of potions to orbs is a perfect example. Inventory is the same sort of change. I think that they deserve credit for looking at those previous systems and saying 'they worked, but we can make them better'.
Bioware > Blizzard.
In fact ...
Bioware > All.
/thread
CyberPunk RP Nexus
just no.......