Blizzard says they listen to fan feedback in making their game.
I've accepted that statement on faith now but the only example I can think of them actually listening to feedback to make a change for D3 were the in-house Blizzard employees that didn't like the popup dialog system (that we saw in the first gameplay demo) which they later removed for the demo.
As for actual fan critics, there was the art controversy...and their response to that was to make pink rainbow T-shirts to simply emphasize exactly how much they don't give a sh*t what those fans who dont like the current art think. Basically, they were offended...and instead of taking the comments seriously they decided to try to do something equally offensive back. Kind of childish. Then they cited all the previous 4 iterations of art direction that was changed due to...once again...in-house feedback.
The reason I am making this thread is I want to know if anyone has any actual documented examples of gameplay features that are or have been changed as a result of actual fan feedback.
Please list specific examples. It will make me feel better if I can actually see some evidence that they are listening.
They responded to the comment about things being too "clean" looking. I can't remember which video it was in but Jay was talking about how they took some ideas like that and wanted to make them happen.
As for actual fan critics, there was the art controversy...and their response to that was to make pink rainbow T-shirts to simply emphasize exactly how much they don't give a sh*t what those fans who dont like the current art think. Basically, they were offended...and instead of taking the comments seriously they decided to try to do something equally offensive back. Kind of childish. Then they cited all the previous 4 iterations of art direction that was changed due to...once again...in-house feedback.
Dude.
That was done as a joke... because they in-fact made it darker.
It was kinda them saying, "Do you think it's like this now?"
Game designers do base their ideas and changes and how they make their games upon player feedback.. and who their target audience is.
I don't think they would've hade Diablo III Demo up for just people to enjoy at Blizzcon if the game (as they say) is still a ways away from being finished. There's always a bigger reasons game companys/designers do things like that.
That's how all game designers work.
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Watching 240 guys talk trash about cavaliers is like two retards having a slapfight over a sippy cup.
I was under the impression that they said they wouldn't make it darker, and that they "didn't", but rather that there are some darker areas we hadnt seen yet.
IT WAS DARK TO BEGIN WITH! People these days look at the cover of a book and decide what it's all about. The 20 minute gameplay trailer was in fact, the cover of a book. Jay says that the footage in that trailer are the "happier" parts of Sanctuary. What follows afterwards is not... As shown at BlizzCon.
And they didn't JUST create those environments just weeks prior to BlizzCon - they have act 1 nearly complete, as stated in June - so those environments were already created.
theres alot of books out there, i dont have time to judge every book by the content. If ive heard nothing about the book, i judge the cover(edit: and title!) to see if it looks worth picking up, and then look to the inside. I dont have time to waste on crappy looking books.
If that's a joke, then good one! But if it isn't, that is seriously one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.
You're saying you wouldn't read possibly the greatest book of all time, if say it had a gray, monotone cover?
You never can know the contents of a book without reading it.
And why judge a book by the cover, when 99 times out of 100 the cover isn't even drawn or chosen by the author? That's just dumb.
Diablo III's cover: The 20 minute WWI gameplay trailer
Diablo III's real contents: The ENTIRE game
Diablo III's world reknowned bestselling author: Blizzard Entertainment
in case the original message was too long... let me shorten it.
Quote from "avanent" »
If ive heard nothing about the book, i judge the cover to see if it looks worth picking up, and then look to the inside. I dont have time to waste on crappy looking books.
I should have said title too. The title goes along with judging the cover.
The reason I am making this thread is I want to know if anyone has any actual documented examples of gameplay features that are or have been changed as a result of actual fan feedback.
rofl???your a silly person. Yes, let me go through my storage of printed forum comments and reference them with changes that blizz made.......rofl??seriously dude?? I hope it was merely a misuse of words (documented)
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
It's really sad that you think like that.
I love to read.
I've come to realize some of the best books ARE the ones with the shitty covers.
You can outdo the cover all you want.
It can be a brilliantly thought out masterpiece, but if the story isn't good than the cover was just a waste of great art.
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Watching 240 guys talk trash about cavaliers is like two retards having a slapfight over a sippy cup.
IT WAS DARK TO BEGIN WITH! People these days look at the cover of a book and decide what it's all about. The 20 minute gameplay trailer was in fact, the cover of a book. Jay says that the footage in that trailer are the "happier" parts of Sanctuary. What follows afterwards is not... As shown at BlizzCon.
And they didn't JUST create those environments just weeks prior to BlizzCon - they have act 1 nearly complete, as stated in June - so those environments were already created.
That's what I figured. They didn't ignore fans, the game already had dark areas, just which they didn't disclose until the convention this month.
(Below info not pointed towards any particular person or postee above - just my opinion)
I believe they listen to the fans, it dumbs down to: "whats a better direction for the game" vs "whats best for players"
(And as I saw the shirts we're made by a fan making fun of the "lighter side" of D3)
If you have a negative opinion about something blizz is doing in D3, keep a valid argument and if enough people agree they may change it. I doubt most of the flame posts concerning some of the topics are EVER going to be read by blizzard without a valid point being told.
But, on the other hand, am I wrong here or the light radius is back now? Because that would be a proof of listening to the fans - Jay Wilson was adamant in earlier interviews that it couldn't be done this time...
It could be done.. and as you stated it is back.
The thing with that is they just wanted to be unique with this game... try new things that they haven't before and explore new gaming elements and incorportating new ideas.
If they didn't listen to the fans.. it would be completely rehashed and nothing old left in.
That IS what they wanted at first..
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Watching 240 guys talk trash about cavaliers is like two retards having a slapfight over a sippy cup.
Blizzard says they listen to fan feedback in making their game.
I've accepted that statement on faith now but the only example I can think of them actually listening to feedback to make a change for D3 were the in-house Blizzard employees that didn't like the popup dialog system (that we saw in the first gameplay demo) which they later removed for the demo.
As for actual fan critics, there was the art controversy...and their response to that was to make pink rainbow T-shirts to simply emphasize exactly how much they don't give a sh*t what those fans who dont like the current art think. Basically, they were offended...and instead of taking the comments seriously they decided to try to do something equally offensive back. Kind of childish. Then they cited all the previous 4 iterations of art direction that was changed due to...once again...in-house feedback.
The reason I am making this thread is I want to know if anyone has any actual documented examples of gameplay features that are or have been changed as a result of actual fan feedback.
Please list specific examples. It will make me feel better if I can actually see some evidence that they are listening.
Of course they listen to feedback .. they have a huge fan base, more than 50, 000 that signed the petition. It is common sense that the beggining of a game , a sequel beginning 20 fricken years AFTER! all prime evils of that world were destroyed. I don't consider myself that hardcore of a fan because compared to the people that play this game that buy the books that buy t-shirst and go to blizzcon every year and buy everything the company even throws out their window I am not even a fan. I love the franchise and the company ...
The art controversy was like taking the release of the plasma screen and say it is too flat, all the room i have from the old tv will be too much. Its hard to think of a good analogy for this even! Look at d2, then take a look at D3 - look on the bright side (it might look better when looking at colors then looking at brown blotches) the game upgraded from 2d to 3d, ok thats good .. they went from using shades of black and brown and other colors! Here is a good way to explain what they explain .. Look at an animation of someone dieing in black and white.. then in dark shades of black, brown, gray all the goth colors ..
ok he is bleeding, what color to use .. black!
What they are trying to show you is with color (sarcastic voice) you --- can --- see --- demons -- die --- with --- coooolllllooooorrr!!! imagine seeing blood that has shades of red or leaves that are greeeeennnn... or hell that iss redddd..... diablo is redd...
I made this sound stupid .. D2 had colors too.. Look up the word contrast then put it in a sentence.. They --- are -- trying ---too ----- show --- you contrast from when time is gooooodddd - to when time is baaaddddd.. and even when they are bad the color black doesn't take control of our world , Diablo does..
It is either people have problems or all diablo fans, sorry a fraction of diablo fans are goths....
To answer your original question, they look at fans feedback, but 50,000 isn't a lot its a fraction of who they are selling to .. and 99% of those 50,000 will buy it anyway and brag about it .. standing infront of bestbuy and gamestop trying to be first... If you draw something and all great important artists and EXPERT develepors like it .. they care more about their feedback then yours .. even after the controversy, people admitted to liking it .. people that wrote a few threads about hating it.. and people say it isn't staying true to the lore and that BS...they make the LORE, the lore is whatever they want it to be.. Its like you doing something productive with your life and build a stone model of a building or something like that .. you ask someone their opinion but you continue working on it, you keep that thought they gave you in mind but you dont take a sledge hammer, cry and say life isn't fair ..
If you know anything about business and selling stuff .. something you think is ugly is beautiful to someone else. Every product has it's customer. There is not one person that will say this game sucks because of graphics .. im 100% sure this game will win game of the year it already looks more unique than any other game .. including D2
If you read this far pat yourself on the back and in your continueing post have this in the top left corner
&^&
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"Not Even Death Can Save You From Me" ~ Diablo (II)
Of course they listen to feedback .. they have a huge fan base, more than 50, 000 that signed the petition. It is common sense that the beggining of a game , a sequel beginning 20 fricken years AFTER! all prime evils of that world were destroyed. I don't consider myself that hardcore of a fan because compared to the people that play this game that buy the books that buy t-shirst and go to blizzcon every year and buy everything the company even throws out their window I am not even a fan. I love the franchise and the company ...
The art controversy was like taking the release of the plasma screen and say it is too flat, all the room i have from the old tv will be too much. Its hard to think of a good analogy for this even! Look at d2, then take a look at D3 - look on the bright side (it might look better when looking at colors then looking at brown blotches) the game upgraded from 2d to 3d, ok thats good .. they went from using shades of black and brown and other colors! Here is a good way to explain what they explain .. Look at an animation of someone dieing in black and white.. then in dark shades of black, brown, gray all the goth colors ..
ok he is bleeding, what color to use .. black!
What they are trying to show you is with color (sarcastic voice) you --- can --- see --- demons -- die --- with --- coooolllllooooorrr!!! imagine seeing blood that has shades of red or leaves that are greeeeennnn... or hell that iss redddd..... diablo is redd...
I made this sound stupid .. D2 had colors too.. Look up the word contrast then put it in a sentence.. They --- are -- trying ---too ----- show --- you contrast from when time is gooooodddd - to when time is baaaddddd.. and even when they are bad the color black doesn't take control of our world , Diablo does..
It is either people have problems or all diablo fans, sorry a fraction of diablo fans are goths....
To answer your original question, they look at fans feedback, but 50,000 isn't a lot its a fraction of who they are selling to .. and 99% of those 50,000 will buy it anyway and brag about it .. standing infront of bestbuy and gamestop trying to be first... If you draw something and all great important artists and EXPERT develepors like it .. they care more about their feedback then yours .. even after the controversy, people admitted to liking it .. people that wrote a few threads about hating it.. and people say it isn't staying true to the lore and that BS...they make the LORE, the lore is whatever they want it to be.. Its like you doing something productive with your life and build a stone model of a building or something like that .. you ask someone their opinion but you continue working on it, you keep that thought they gave you in mind but you dont take a sledge hammer, cry and say life isn't fair ..
If you know anything about business and selling stuff .. something you think is ugly is beautiful to someone else. Every product has it's customer. There is not one person that will say this game sucks because of graphics .. im 100% sure this game will win game of the year it already looks more unique than any other game .. including D2
If you read this far pat yourself on the back and in your continueing post have this in the top left corner
&^&
Sooo... Basically you said:
Yes, of course they listen to fan feed back, you dummy!
But no, I don't have any proof or evidence that says they do. :D!
You really didn't answer his question, and you wasted a LOT of time typing up all that junk about the Art controversy that had NOTHING to do with his question, because we all KNOW that Blizzard didn't even look twice at the "50,000 signature petition".
Good job.
This is what the OP is trying to ask:
Is Blizzard REALLY listening? Or will they continue to do what THEY thing is best for the company?
I'm pretty sure Blizzard can do whatever it wants.
If the Fans comment/suggestion is in tune with what they want to do, then they'll do it.
They do listen, there isn't a whole lot they can change, but they take certain things into account, (I believe they are trying to make objects stay on screen longer?
It's quite pointless to respond seriously to a community when you are arrogantly confident in your ability to create a fun to play game.
What is a good game though? Is it a game that balances Story, Graphics and Interactivity? Does Blizzard create good storys that are fun to follow or is the gameplay compensating for a lack of scripting talent?
They listen to fans. For example about the dungeons being too clean....and then there was one about how the corpses vanish too fast and it leaves a feeling of emptiness. Now they made corpses last longer.
It seems your just talking about why they havent changed the art style, but just because they dont want to change it doesnt mean they dont listen, they do whats best for the game. They are very confident in it, and the people who actually played the demo have great feedback and even mentioned that the atmosphere is dark.
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I've accepted that statement on faith now but the only example I can think of them actually listening to feedback to make a change for D3 were the in-house Blizzard employees that didn't like the popup dialog system (that we saw in the first gameplay demo) which they later removed for the demo.
As for actual fan critics, there was the art controversy...and their response to that was to make pink rainbow T-shirts to simply emphasize exactly how much they don't give a sh*t what those fans who dont like the current art think. Basically, they were offended...and instead of taking the comments seriously they decided to try to do something equally offensive back. Kind of childish. Then they cited all the previous 4 iterations of art direction that was changed due to...once again...in-house feedback.
The reason I am making this thread is I want to know if anyone has any actual documented examples of gameplay features that are or have been changed as a result of actual fan feedback.
Please list specific examples. It will make me feel better if I can actually see some evidence that they are listening.
The fact that thats how blizzard is choosing to respond to their fans is F'd up, with a capital f.
They're basically telling the people who helped blizzard get established in its days of pre-warcraft 3 to screw off.
Thanks for the love blizzard.
~not going to buy a wow-ish diablo 3~
~this is the petition you're looking for~
Dude.
That was done as a joke... because they in-fact made it darker.
It was kinda them saying, "Do you think it's like this now?"
Game designers do base their ideas and changes and how they make their games upon player feedback.. and who their target audience is.
I don't think they would've hade Diablo III Demo up for just people to enjoy at Blizzcon if the game (as they say) is still a ways away from being finished. There's always a bigger reasons game companys/designers do things like that.
That's how all game designers work.
~not going to buy a wow-ish diablo 3~
~this is the petition you're looking for~
And they didn't JUST create those environments just weeks prior to BlizzCon - they have act 1 nearly complete, as stated in June - so those environments were already created.
Judging a book by its cover is highly underrated.
~not going to buy a wow-ish diablo 3~
~this is the petition you're looking for~
If that's a joke, then good one! But if it isn't, that is seriously one of the most ridiculous things I have ever heard.
You're saying you wouldn't read possibly the greatest book of all time, if say it had a gray, monotone cover?
You never can know the contents of a book without reading it.
And why judge a book by the cover, when 99 times out of 100 the cover isn't even drawn or chosen by the author? That's just dumb.
Diablo III's cover: The 20 minute WWI gameplay trailer
Diablo III's real contents: The ENTIRE game
Diablo III's world reknowned bestselling author: Blizzard Entertainment
I should have said title too. The title goes along with judging the cover.
~not going to buy a wow-ish diablo 3~
~this is the petition you're looking for~
rofl???your a silly person. Yes, let me go through my storage of printed forum comments and reference them with changes that blizz made.......rofl??seriously dude?? I hope it was merely a misuse of words (documented)
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
I love to read.
I've come to realize some of the best books ARE the ones with the shitty covers.
You can outdo the cover all you want.
It can be a brilliantly thought out masterpiece, but if the story isn't good than the cover was just a waste of great art.
That's what I figured. They didn't ignore fans, the game already had dark areas, just which they didn't disclose until the convention this month.
(Below info not pointed towards any particular person or postee above - just my opinion)
I believe they listen to the fans, it dumbs down to: "whats a better direction for the game" vs "whats best for players"
(And as I saw the shirts we're made by a fan making fun of the "lighter side" of D3)
If you have a negative opinion about something blizz is doing in D3, keep a valid argument and if enough people agree they may change it. I doubt most of the flame posts concerning some of the topics are EVER going to be read by blizzard without a valid point being told.
Hungry? Why Wait? Grab a Barbarian!
It could be done.. and as you stated it is back.
The thing with that is they just wanted to be unique with this game... try new things that they haven't before and explore new gaming elements and incorportating new ideas.
If they didn't listen to the fans.. it would be completely rehashed and nothing old left in.
That IS what they wanted at first..
Of course they listen to feedback .. they have a huge fan base, more than 50, 000 that signed the petition. It is common sense that the beggining of a game , a sequel beginning 20 fricken years AFTER! all prime evils of that world were destroyed. I don't consider myself that hardcore of a fan because compared to the people that play this game that buy the books that buy t-shirst and go to blizzcon every year and buy everything the company even throws out their window I am not even a fan. I love the franchise and the company ...
The art controversy was like taking the release of the plasma screen and say it is too flat, all the room i have from the old tv will be too much. Its hard to think of a good analogy for this even! Look at d2, then take a look at D3 - look on the bright side (it might look better when looking at colors then looking at brown blotches) the game upgraded from 2d to 3d, ok thats good .. they went from using shades of black and brown and other colors! Here is a good way to explain what they explain .. Look at an animation of someone dieing in black and white.. then in dark shades of black, brown, gray all the goth colors ..
ok he is bleeding, what color to use .. black!
What they are trying to show you is with color (sarcastic voice) you --- can --- see --- demons -- die --- with --- coooolllllooooorrr!!! imagine seeing blood that has shades of red or leaves that are greeeeennnn... or hell that iss redddd..... diablo is redd...
I made this sound stupid .. D2 had colors too.. Look up the word contrast then put it in a sentence.. They --- are -- trying ---too ----- show --- you contrast from when time is gooooodddd - to when time is baaaddddd.. and even when they are bad the color black doesn't take control of our world , Diablo does..
It is either people have problems or all diablo fans, sorry a fraction of diablo fans are goths....
To answer your original question, they look at fans feedback, but 50,000 isn't a lot its a fraction of who they are selling to .. and 99% of those 50,000 will buy it anyway and brag about it .. standing infront of bestbuy and gamestop trying to be first... If you draw something and all great important artists and EXPERT develepors like it .. they care more about their feedback then yours .. even after the controversy, people admitted to liking it .. people that wrote a few threads about hating it.. and people say it isn't staying true to the lore and that BS...they make the LORE, the lore is whatever they want it to be.. Its like you doing something productive with your life and build a stone model of a building or something like that .. you ask someone their opinion but you continue working on it, you keep that thought they gave you in mind but you dont take a sledge hammer, cry and say life isn't fair ..
If you know anything about business and selling stuff .. something you think is ugly is beautiful to someone else. Every product has it's customer. There is not one person that will say this game sucks because of graphics .. im 100% sure this game will win game of the year it already looks more unique than any other game .. including D2
If you read this far pat yourself on the back and in your continueing post have this in the top left corner
&^&
Not "most" Diablo fans are Goth.
I bet if you took a poll you'd be surprised at how wrong you are on that.
Goth colors?
Hell... you're even labeling the colors.
That's like calling me a Goth because my favorite colors are Black and Deep Red.
Hmm.
Sooo... Basically you said:
Yes, of course they listen to fan feed back, you dummy!
But no, I don't have any proof or evidence that says they do. :D!
You really didn't answer his question, and you wasted a LOT of time typing up all that junk about the Art controversy that had NOTHING to do with his question, because we all KNOW that Blizzard didn't even look twice at the "50,000 signature petition".
Good job.
This is what the OP is trying to ask:
Is Blizzard REALLY listening? Or will they continue to do what THEY thing is best for the company?
I'm pretty sure Blizzard can do whatever it wants.
If the Fans comment/suggestion is in tune with what they want to do, then they'll do it.
Case closed.
What is a good game though? Is it a game that balances Story, Graphics and Interactivity? Does Blizzard create good storys that are fun to follow or is the gameplay compensating for a lack of scripting talent?
It seems your just talking about why they havent changed the art style, but just because they dont want to change it doesnt mean they dont listen, they do whats best for the game. They are very confident in it, and the people who actually played the demo have great feedback and even mentioned that the atmosphere is dark.