For both sides, humans are just a mean of shifting the balance of the Great Conflict between the Burning Hells and the High Heaven so that one of the two side can achieve it's true goal. What they don't know is that humans can be more evil or more good than any angels or demons.
You'll see the Three will rise again and come back to Sanctuary to end existence as we know it, and the angels will fall down on earth like a hammer to exterminate the abomination that is humanity.
humans are just a mean of shifting the balance of the Great Conflict between the Burning Hells and the High Heaven so that one of the two side can achieve it's true goal
You know what? I'd never thought of it like that. It's reminiscent of Terry Brooks' "feeders" in his Word and Void series.
I agree that without evil there can be no good, so in a backwards ass way, evil is good. But that is like saying night is the real day. Sometimes a little evil goes a long way, you may do something thinking and knowing that is is wrong and bad, and fifty years later it may turn out to be the most good ever seen. What we do in life, whether evil or good, echoes through eternity forever. I think when it comes right down to it, YOU KNOW if what your doing is evil or good. The conscious is something we all have inside of us, sometimes however, in some special rare cases,a child is born of pure evil, without remorse, without a functioning mind. In this case, only the good, the burning eternal light, can slay these demons and send them back to the hell from which they crept. \
So I think the real answer is YOU. Only you can say what is evil and what is good, because only you perceive what you do, in your own way.
I don't totally understand on how this tries to explain on what is real evil or who is really good, please explain
What I'm trying to say, is that from the point of view of the average human, Angels and Demons (even if they don't know it) are evil, because all the latters care about is to use the earlier to their own end.
Demons are simply crazy, bestial, tricky creatures
Angels are senseless robots who only care about performing their duty supposing that it's for the better of the Universe even if in the end it will creat a stagnant dead world. Most of them don't care about the fate humans, except Tyrael because Uldyssian did something good not because of his duty but because he wanted to.
In my book, angels are just a specific race of demons. A seemingly humanoid creature with spectral wings, heresy I'm telling you!
Ok now to take on your argument, first of all I have to say, the main chara is the one who went out killing. I know not the greatest argument yet but let me now explain.
Think about what I have said about the Lions the bigger their crowd gets the more space they need, in order to protect their space they take away what threatens them. The Demons are growing in numbers and therefore they need more space. Hell was not enough space for them, so they had to advance into the real world. I never said this was a good thing that they did, I am just trying to argue that their intentions are not bad
Now the human race tries to protect themselfs by starting to fight the demos because they thing they are bad, because they are coming into their territory, but the demons are just looking for more space.
Think about it this way, if you were in a room 1meter by 1meter and there were five people stuck with you, wouldn't it be tight?? Sure it is. Now if there is a door wouldn't you try to go through it in the hope of more space?
now lets say in the other room are aehm twenty spiders that might be able to kill you if they sting you in your sleep, so what do you do you kill them right?
There was never any mention in the books or the storylines in-game that Hell was becoming over-crowded. But, for sake of argument, let's just assume you're right.
So: Do they have a right to take away land given to the humans for their enjoyment and use just because they couldn't manage their own allotted space well?
If your brother had too much junk in his room, would you mind if he just started destroying your stuff in your room and then put his own in? I'd assume no. Most people would try to 1) get the alien junk out or 2) destroy it (going to the extreme.)
Secondly, the demons are not invading Sanctuary to get more land because they're over-crowded in Hell. Hell in eternally enormous, so that all of the tortured human souls and demons would have space, or at least that's what's commonly held. In Diablo it could be different. But, still, they are not invading to take more land for population. Do you know why they're taking it?
They're taking it because the forces of Hell want to destroy/corrupt Heaven. They want to use Sanctuary as an (quote) "outpost of Hell". They don't need the land, they just want it, which is a far cry different from living (they aren't invading because they need more space) and comfort (they're invading because they want to use Sanctuary as a medium between Hell and Heaven) (as I stated in my initial post in this thread (referring to "living and comfort".)
Even if it was because of population, would it be good for them to kill humans just because they've mismanaged their own space? They're taking out their problems on other beings who aren't even related to their problems.
The hero in either of these cases would just be killing as the secondary killer to keep the demons- the primary killers- from annihilating all of the humans, who never did anything to merit destruction at the hands of the demonics.
Well now if you think about this argument, humans try to conquere each other in wars too right? So why not a change of mind and instead of another human it is now a demon. Also again consider my argument above with the space issues.
The difference here is that humans and demons (in Diablo) are from two different dimensions, two different states of being. Demons are not humans, humans are not demons. They have completely different facets of life. For instance, have you read the "Should Demons Have Genitals?" thread? That went in to great detail about the reproduction habits of demons. While some of them reproduce instantaneously, nearly all of them do not reproduce. And, in the case of the Prime Evils births, they are nothing like their parents- at all. Humans, on the other hand, reproduce only when mated heterosexually, and their offspring take on characteristics (both physically and mentally) of their parents. In at least that aspect, they're at least two completely different species.
Now, generally speaking, if a human were to attack another human to achieve comfort, then I would say that the primary attacker- the one trying to become more comfortable by gaining more land than he/she needs, and so on- is evil, since they do not need comfort to survive.
So, 1) demons and humans are not the same, so they cannot be related on that scale and 2) the demons are attacking to use Sanctuary as an "outpost", not to get more land because they're overpopulated, and 3) even if they were overpopulated, it's their fault that it's happened to them and they shouldn't take their problems out on other innocent beings that have nothing to do with the problem.
EDIT: I think this is the longest post I've written so far here in this forum, and if some of you remember I have quite some long posts lol
Long posts are fun- they're what make us all look intelligent
In my book, angels are just a specific race of demons. A seemingly humanoid creature with spectral wings, heresy I'm telling you!
Yeah, I'd agree, but only with the case of Inarius, who despised the Nephalem and now hates also humankind, a by product of his taint of the Worldstone. The rest of the Angiris Council is passive on the subject and doesn't get involved (and, in fact, they actually have a policy of isolationism), and Tyrael has actually gone against the wishes of the Angiris Council multiple times to keep Sanctuary from becoming dominated by the demonic hordes, not to make it ruled by the angelics (if you can find a counter-quote to this, said by Tyrael, then I'll say that this is open to debate.)
Without evil there can be nothing with which to contrast good with, Good cannot exist without evil. And Evil cannot exist without good. They are a true ying and yang, Light and Dark, postive and negative, black and white, order and chaos, two totally opposing forces but together make a harmony.
Without evil there can be no good, so it must be good to be evil sometimes, (up there there is so room where baby's burp and flowers bloom)
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-Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's First Law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only, truth.
Without evil there can be nothing with which to contrast good with, Good cannot exist without evil. And Evil cannot exist without good. They are a true ying and yang, Light and Dark, postive and negative, black and white, order and chaos, two totally opposing forces but together make a harmony.
Without evil there can be no good, so it must be good to be evil sometimes, (up there there is so room where baby's burp and flowers bloom)
Wherever there is light there are shadows, but in the shadows there is no light. In a world without chaos there is naught but pure void. The void can exist without the need for anything good or evil, but both of them seeking balance ultimately lead to the end of all things. Whenever good is created, so must be evil. If they ever meet they will destroy one another and return to the void... I can't tell you if good is really good or if evil is really evil, but regardless I can tell you that if one is good then the other is evil.
How Ironic that good which usually fear the void, ultimately leads toward it.
You're only delaying the inevitable, all life leads toward death.
Good is those that triumph, and evil are the ones that loose. It has always been this way through history. The stronger one is always the good guy and the loosing team are always the bad guys.
Thus no, because once evil defeats good, they switch and evil becomes good and good becomes evil.
If you take a metal plate, earlier experiments showed that it is made by 99% of nothing.
Matter is a rare thing in our universe, but such is not the case of chaos.
There is a time, where you'll have to admit that life is only a specific frequency of chaos, some sort of ordered chaos if you will, and it is therefore part of a greater evil.
Good is a part of evil not the reverse. Light needs shadows to exist whereas the shadows don't need light to exist.
(Except that the humans are just trying to stay alive and the demons are invading Sanctuary, the world of humans, to conquer it, and that humans are not venturing in to Hell to conquer it, but to kill Diablo, who is trying to accomplish the former. Mind you Diablo is not even the ruler of Hell- Belial is.)
Belial is not the ruler of hell Belial and Azmodan are fighting for possesion of hell so none of the 2 are really rulers of hell.
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www.myspace.com/mpotatoes for all your Trans Siberian Orchestra listening pleasure
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
It becomes evil when the right to choose, and other inherent freedoms are taken away. It becomes evil when rights are infringed upon, and I'd say the slaughter and lies spewed from Diablo makes it fairly apparent.
Tyrael represents the good.
Diablo represents the bad.
Diablo tries to kill us.
Tyrael tried to help us.
That pretty much tells you what you need to know.
Thats from the gamers point of view. If the tables were turned and the gamers point of view was from the demon's side, then the Burning Hells would be "good" and the High Heavens would be "bad"
It's all how you perceive it.
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I'm more of an ass man myself.
Excuse my lack of enters...Spyware and all that...Sphicnter
idk i think that killing someone is bad but i also think that humans need a natural predator... something above us on teh food chain before we ruin it and our planet to aid in natural selection
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You'll see the Three will rise again and come back to Sanctuary to end existence as we know it, and the angels will fall down on earth like a hammer to exterminate the abomination that is humanity.
You know what? I'd never thought of it like that. It's reminiscent of Terry Brooks' "feeders" in his Word and Void series.
So I think the real answer is YOU. Only you can say what is evil and what is good, because only you perceive what you do, in your own way.
Okay, I'm sorry but I laughed at that last part
Don't be sorry, they all laugh at first.
What I'm trying to say, is that from the point of view of the average human, Angels and Demons (even if they don't know it) are evil, because all the latters care about is to use the earlier to their own end.
Demons are simply crazy, bestial, tricky creatures
Angels are senseless robots who only care about performing their duty supposing that it's for the better of the Universe even if in the end it will creat a stagnant dead world. Most of them don't care about the fate humans, except Tyrael because Uldyssian did something good not because of his duty but because he wanted to.
In my book, angels are just a specific race of demons. A seemingly humanoid creature with spectral wings, heresy I'm telling you!
There was never any mention in the books or the storylines in-game that Hell was becoming over-crowded. But, for sake of argument, let's just assume you're right.
So: Do they have a right to take away land given to the humans for their enjoyment and use just because they couldn't manage their own allotted space well?
If your brother had too much junk in his room, would you mind if he just started destroying your stuff in your room and then put his own in? I'd assume no. Most people would try to 1) get the alien junk out or 2) destroy it (going to the extreme.)
Secondly, the demons are not invading Sanctuary to get more land because they're over-crowded in Hell. Hell in eternally enormous, so that all of the tortured human souls and demons would have space, or at least that's what's commonly held. In Diablo it could be different. But, still, they are not invading to take more land for population. Do you know why they're taking it?
They're taking it because the forces of Hell want to destroy/corrupt Heaven. They want to use Sanctuary as an (quote) "outpost of Hell". They don't need the land, they just want it, which is a far cry different from living (they aren't invading because they need more space) and comfort (they're invading because they want to use Sanctuary as a medium between Hell and Heaven) (as I stated in my initial post in this thread (referring to "living and comfort".)
Even if it was because of population, would it be good for them to kill humans just because they've mismanaged their own space? They're taking out their problems on other beings who aren't even related to their problems.
The hero in either of these cases would just be killing as the secondary killer to keep the demons- the primary killers- from annihilating all of the humans, who never did anything to merit destruction at the hands of the demonics.
The difference here is that humans and demons (in Diablo) are from two different dimensions, two different states of being. Demons are not humans, humans are not demons. They have completely different facets of life. For instance, have you read the "Should Demons Have Genitals?" thread? That went in to great detail about the reproduction habits of demons. While some of them reproduce instantaneously, nearly all of them do not reproduce. And, in the case of the Prime Evils births, they are nothing like their parents- at all. Humans, on the other hand, reproduce only when mated heterosexually, and their offspring take on characteristics (both physically and mentally) of their parents. In at least that aspect, they're at least two completely different species.
Now, generally speaking, if a human were to attack another human to achieve comfort, then I would say that the primary attacker- the one trying to become more comfortable by gaining more land than he/she needs, and so on- is evil, since they do not need comfort to survive.
So, 1) demons and humans are not the same, so they cannot be related on that scale and 2) the demons are attacking to use Sanctuary as an "outpost", not to get more land because they're overpopulated, and 3) even if they were overpopulated, it's their fault that it's happened to them and they shouldn't take their problems out on other innocent beings that have nothing to do with the problem.
Long posts are fun- they're what make us all look intelligent
Yeah, I'd agree, but only with the case of Inarius, who despised the Nephalem and now hates also humankind, a by product of his taint of the Worldstone. The rest of the Angiris Council is passive on the subject and doesn't get involved (and, in fact, they actually have a policy of isolationism), and Tyrael has actually gone against the wishes of the Angiris Council multiple times to keep Sanctuary from becoming dominated by the demonic hordes, not to make it ruled by the angelics (if you can find a counter-quote to this, said by Tyrael, then I'll say that this is open to debate.)
Yeah, arguing for something you don't support is always hard. Okay then, until next time
Without evil there can be no good, so it must be good to be evil sometimes, (up there there is so room where baby's burp and flowers bloom)
Wherever there is light there are shadows, but in the shadows there is no light. In a world without chaos there is naught but pure void. The void can exist without the need for anything good or evil, but both of them seeking balance ultimately lead to the end of all things. Whenever good is created, so must be evil. If they ever meet they will destroy one another and return to the void... I can't tell you if good is really good or if evil is really evil, but regardless I can tell you that if one is good then the other is evil.
How Ironic that good which usually fear the void, ultimately leads toward it.
You're only delaying the inevitable, all life leads toward death.
Thus no, because once evil defeats good, they switch and evil becomes good and good becomes evil.
Matter is a rare thing in our universe, but such is not the case of chaos.
There is a time, where you'll have to admit that life is only a specific frequency of chaos, some sort of ordered chaos if you will, and it is therefore part of a greater evil.
Good is a part of evil not the reverse. Light needs shadows to exist whereas the shadows don't need light to exist.
Belial is not the ruler of hell Belial and Azmodan are fighting for possesion of hell so none of the 2 are really rulers of hell.
If you want to arrange it
This world you can change it
If we could somehow make this
Christmas thing last
By helping a neighbor
Or even a stranger
And to know who needs help
You need only just ask
CyberPunk RP Nexus
Diablo represents the bad.
Diablo tries to kill us.
Tyrael tried to help us.
That pretty much tells you what you need to know.
It's the decisions you make when you have no time to make them that define who you are.
Thats from the gamers point of view. If the tables were turned and the gamers point of view was from the demon's side, then the Burning Hells would be "good" and the High Heavens would be "bad"
It's all how you perceive it.
Excuse my lack of enters...Spyware and all that...Sphicnter
gamma11 > east