i love lyonidas. he yells the entire movie, and it has all the good lines for guys. i mean, "madness? THIS IS SPARTA!!" *kicks stupid persian down endless pit*
how good is that? or *SPARTANS!! READY YOUR BREAKFAST AND EAT HEARTY, FOR TONIGHT WE DINE IN HELL!!!!"
there are so many good 300 quotes, its not even funny.
The phalanx combat portrayed in 300 was a joke. No way any of the spartans would break rank. If the phalanx breaks, it fails.
No way would a spartan throw his spear, the phalanx spears weren't weighted to throw.
There were 7,000 greeks at the battle, not 350 or so.
Um.. there were no monsters or guys with knives for arms etc.
Ephialtes was not a spartan, he was a Malian and not an ogre.
There are too many other mistakes to list here.
Don't get me wrong I loved the movie but to say it was the most historically accurate movie ever is more than a stretch. It wasn't SUPPOSED to be accurate, even according to the director.
I don't totally agree with you archie. The phalanx combat portrayed in 300 was a joke. No way any of the spartans would break rank. If the phalanx breaks, it fails.
Thank you for stating what Leonidas explains in the film. But think about it. Once the enemy is on their heals, what do you do, just stand there and wait for their next wave an hour later? No, you go after them, and cut down the survivors.
Quote from "Kopfschuss" »
No way would a spartan throw his spear, the phalanx spears weren't weighted to throw.
Did you know that going into battle, each Spartan carried with him his armor, his shield, a sword, and 2 spears. Who is to say that some of them didn't make one for throwing and one for thrusting.
Quote from "Kopfschuss" »
There were 7,000 greeks at the battle, not 350 or so.
Already stated, "Overall, the spartans, along with about 6,000 other Greeks, defeated over 150,000 Persians." But the film does allude to the amount of the other Greeks' with the Arcadians, with their leader stating that he thought the Spartans would have at least matched their numbers.
Quote from "Kopfschuss" »
Um.. there were no monsters or guys with knives for arms etc.
Of course the monsters were fake!!! That was the point in making the Persians bad. They were evil monsters trying to destroy the free world. Now when it came to the Immortals, that is actually how the Spartans saw them. There was always a core group of 10,000 elite Persian soldiers, that after every battle no matter the losses, the elite group always returned to 10,000 men. So in the eyes of the Spartans, it seemed as if they never died in battle. And something that doesn't die, can not be human.
Quote from "Kopfschuss" »
Ephialtes was not a spartan, he was a Malian and not an ogre.
True. And he was a hunchback, Ogres are commonly considered giant men, ugly, but not necessarily deformed. Watch the extras on the second DVD for the deleted part of the Ogre with the midget on his back shooting arrows. That part was removed because the director deemed it too much.
Quote from "Kopfschuss" »
There are too many other mistakes to list here.
As you say in your next paragraph, they weren't purposeful mistakes. But they were really even that, they were more like filling in the blanks of the original document.
Quote from "Kopfschuss" »
Don't get me wrong I loved the movie but to say it was the most historically accurate movie ever is more than a stretch. It wasn't SUPPOSED to be accurate, even according to the director.
All that is required for this or any historical film, is that it was accurate in the parts that needed to be, and entertainment in everything else.
You got the point that the story was about 300 men fighting to protect that which they love, correct? Then what else matters.
Archie I think that the basis for our disagreement is what we both consider to be "historically accurate".
Obviously, we have different definitions.
I base my "accuracy" on the fine details, whereas it seems yours is based on overall storyline. Fair enough. I won't argue that "overall" the story is fairly accurate.
I will argure that in fine scale, it isn't so much.
My biggest beef with your statement was the "most accurate film ever", i just can't even start to agree with that.
P.S. I don't think that you can say that 300 spartans +6,000 greeks defeated the 150,000 persions. Getting wiped out isn't exactly a victory.
It aided in, and possibly produced, an overall greek victory. However the battle itself can't be considered a victory in my book. Damn, i think I just started a whole nother arguement lol.
P.S.S i'm glad we can keep this civil w/out flames, burns, etc.
Yeah, I guess we do have slightly different perspective.
But, you do have to consider that I am a film student, so my perspective is going to be a bit different than someone who isn't (I'm just guessing that you aren't a film student).
The way I was instructed was to look at the overall picture in terms of story, and all of the little things as extra bits of entertainment. Because that is all it is, entertainment.
I have to say it was a victory when the Spartans lost no warriors during the entire first day, while slaughtering over 30,000 Persians. Then on the second day, they caused the 10,000 Immortals to retreat. Still with minimal losses. Later in the second day, Xerxes sent 50,000 more troops only to have them slaughtered till the point of retreat as well. Finally on the third day of battle, after defeating nearly 20,000 more soldiers, half of the army that outflanked them, the remaining 1900 Spartans and Thespians were killed (the other Greek city-states retreated). That's at least 80,000 troops killed, more than half of Xerxes Infantry, and 1/3 of his entire land army!!
So just under 7000 Greeks killed approximately 80,000 Persians, I consider that a victory. That is an 11 to 1 kill ratio. I don't think that has ever been matched in the history of ground warfare. Maybe the USA is better than that today, I don't know. (FYI: For the air, the F-15 Eagle 105:0 kill ratio:cool: )
Yeah, I hate flamers. If I happen to get into the middle of a flame fest, I will either try to change the subject, or just plain leave the argument. I find it a lot more challenging (and fun) by presenting your side of the discussion in a logical and civilized way, and then having the other person present their rebuttal.
And yes my statement that it was the most historically accurate film in history was an exaggeration. There is one other film that was more accurate, and that film was Troy.
The Tet offensive during the Vietnam conflict yeilded somewhere around 20:1 kill/death in the U.S.'s favor, however overall it was viewed as a tactical defeat for the United States.
K/D can be a misleading way of determining the outcome of a battle. Like I said, I do believe that the battle was possibly a tactical victory for the greeks, however it was not a literal victory. The greek Army was forced to retreat, and the spartans and thespians were annihilated. That result is classicaly defined as a defeat from a military standpoint.
In fact, The battle is the perfect representation of a Pyrrhic Victory on behalf of the Persions. Pyrrhic indeed, but a victory none the less.
Regardless of the means of the battle, it's the ends that determine the victor.
I'm not trying to downplay what was accomplished at the battle by the Greeks, but awarding them a victory they did not, and perhaps could not, acheive is an attempt at rewriting history in my view.
Yes I do agree with you on the K/D ratio not being a good method of determining the victor of a battle. I was just trying to point out the effectiveness of the Spartan way of fighting.
And yes, it was definately a perfect example of a pyrrhic victory. The Persians lost much more than the Spartans. And just like Pyrrhus, if Xerxes had to win another battle like that, he would have been undone. But he didn't have a chance, because in the following battle, he didn't have to face a mere 7000 Greeks and Spartans, but he had to face 80,000 Greeks, 10,000 of which were Spartans. And I do have to change my statement of the battle of thermopylae K/D ratio being unmatched, because the battle of plateae had a kill ratio much better. Using the different numbers given by the ancient scholars, the K/D ratio was anywhere from 26:1 to 100:1. I never really did any research on that battle, just thermopylae.
And like you said, "Regardless of the means of the battle, it's the ends that determine the victor".
It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning. And it doesn't matter if you lose your floorboard in the process.
I dunno, I got no more points to argue, I think we understand each other's point of view, but just still believe in our own. So yeah, I'm done.
300 is the best movie ever to show in theaters period.
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"The flame that burns the most is the light of the eternal human spirit; a beacon of love, justice and peace that will never be extinguished. It will triumph over the forces of darkness and illuminate for the whole world. The true path to freedom, through goodness, faith, hope and Love."
It's not realistic at all, but.. who cares? I didn't watch the movie expecting a historically accurate or plot-oriented film. I expected a blood and guts kill-em-all type of movie. It blew my expectations out of the water though. The story, if a little simple, works. The fight scenes are awesome, and were better than I expected. The cinematography wasn't complex, but looked pretty good (the use of the 'crazyhorse' rig worked beautifully imo). The music is the best part though. The music is fucking GREAT!
All in all, I give this movie a 8/10 for being a lot more than I expected, and not a bad movie at all.
well its a nice movie but where the hack is diablo
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When All the Corrupted Souls Will Fall In To My Hands No Angel Or The Bravest Hero Cant Defeat Me
Im The Essence Of Darkness
Beware Foolish Mortals The Death Nearly Aprochesee[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Hmm, since this thread was already resurrected by some other Necromancer, I feel no guilt in replying.
I haven't seen this movie, I have always had the (mis?)conception that it is an excuse for a bloodfest. However, after reading the reviews about it having great music and battle scenes, I think I may put it on my list of movies to watch. Apparently the battle scenes are sped up and slowed down, creating really powerful moments. Powerful scenes are something that I love, so I think I will see it after all.
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Quote from "Jetrall" »
WoW fans are nerds. Diablo fans are freaks.
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somthing about A stone lion was erected to commemorate Leonidas with the scripture reading "let every greek know what happened here on this day"
how good is that? or *SPARTANS!! READY YOUR BREAKFAST AND EAT HEARTY, FOR TONIGHT WE DINE IN HELL!!!!"
there are so many good 300 quotes, its not even funny.
Yep
Go tell the Spartans, stranger passing by
that here, by Spartan law, we lie.
Or one of 20 different translations. All variations of this. Plus this ryhmes and sounds the coolest.
The phalanx combat portrayed in 300 was a joke. No way any of the spartans would break rank. If the phalanx breaks, it fails.
No way would a spartan throw his spear, the phalanx spears weren't weighted to throw.
There were 7,000 greeks at the battle, not 350 or so.
Um.. there were no monsters or guys with knives for arms etc.
Ephialtes was not a spartan, he was a Malian and not an ogre.
There are too many other mistakes to list here.
Don't get me wrong I loved the movie but to say it was the most historically accurate movie ever is more than a stretch. It wasn't SUPPOSED to be accurate, even according to the director.
Did you know that going into battle, each Spartan carried with him his armor, his shield, a sword, and 2 spears. Who is to say that some of them didn't make one for throwing and one for thrusting.
Already stated, "Overall, the spartans, along with about 6,000 other Greeks, defeated over 150,000 Persians." But the film does allude to the amount of the other Greeks' with the Arcadians, with their leader stating that he thought the Spartans would have at least matched their numbers.
Of course the monsters were fake!!! That was the point in making the Persians bad. They were evil monsters trying to destroy the free world. Now when it came to the Immortals, that is actually how the Spartans saw them. There was always a core group of 10,000 elite Persian soldiers, that after every battle no matter the losses, the elite group always returned to 10,000 men. So in the eyes of the Spartans, it seemed as if they never died in battle. And something that doesn't die, can not be human.
True. And he was a hunchback, Ogres are commonly considered giant men, ugly, but not necessarily deformed. Watch the extras on the second DVD for the deleted part of the Ogre with the midget on his back shooting arrows. That part was removed because the director deemed it too much.
As you say in your next paragraph, they weren't purposeful mistakes. But they were really even that, they were more like filling in the blanks of the original document.
All that is required for this or any historical film, is that it was accurate in the parts that needed to be, and entertainment in everything else.
You got the point that the story was about 300 men fighting to protect that which they love, correct? Then what else matters.
Obviously, we have different definitions.
I base my "accuracy" on the fine details, whereas it seems yours is based on overall storyline. Fair enough. I won't argue that "overall" the story is fairly accurate.
I will argure that in fine scale, it isn't so much.
My biggest beef with your statement was the "most accurate film ever", i just can't even start to agree with that.
P.S. I don't think that you can say that 300 spartans +6,000 greeks defeated the 150,000 persions. Getting wiped out isn't exactly a victory.
It aided in, and possibly produced, an overall greek victory. However the battle itself can't be considered a victory in my book. Damn, i think I just started a whole nother arguement lol.
P.S.S i'm glad we can keep this civil w/out flames, burns, etc.
But, you do have to consider that I am a film student, so my perspective is going to be a bit different than someone who isn't (I'm just guessing that you aren't a film student).
The way I was instructed was to look at the overall picture in terms of story, and all of the little things as extra bits of entertainment. Because that is all it is, entertainment.
I have to say it was a victory when the Spartans lost no warriors during the entire first day, while slaughtering over 30,000 Persians. Then on the second day, they caused the 10,000 Immortals to retreat. Still with minimal losses. Later in the second day, Xerxes sent 50,000 more troops only to have them slaughtered till the point of retreat as well. Finally on the third day of battle, after defeating nearly 20,000 more soldiers, half of the army that outflanked them, the remaining 1900 Spartans and Thespians were killed (the other Greek city-states retreated). That's at least 80,000 troops killed, more than half of Xerxes Infantry, and 1/3 of his entire land army!!
So just under 7000 Greeks killed approximately 80,000 Persians, I consider that a victory. That is an 11 to 1 kill ratio. I don't think that has ever been matched in the history of ground warfare. Maybe the USA is better than that today, I don't know. (FYI: For the air, the F-15 Eagle 105:0 kill ratio:cool: )
Yeah, I hate flamers. If I happen to get into the middle of a flame fest, I will either try to change the subject, or just plain leave the argument. I find it a lot more challenging (and fun) by presenting your side of the discussion in a logical and civilized way, and then having the other person present their rebuttal.
And yes my statement that it was the most historically accurate film in history was an exaggeration. There is one other film that was more accurate, and that film was Troy.
JUST KIDDING!!:D
K/D can be a misleading way of determining the outcome of a battle. Like I said, I do believe that the battle was possibly a tactical victory for the greeks, however it was not a literal victory. The greek Army was forced to retreat, and the spartans and thespians were annihilated. That result is classicaly defined as a defeat from a military standpoint.
In fact, The battle is the perfect representation of a Pyrrhic Victory on behalf of the Persions. Pyrrhic indeed, but a victory none the less.
Regardless of the means of the battle, it's the ends that determine the victor.
I'm not trying to downplay what was accomplished at the battle by the Greeks, but awarding them a victory they did not, and perhaps could not, acheive is an attempt at rewriting history in my view.
And yes, it was definately a perfect example of a pyrrhic victory. The Persians lost much more than the Spartans. And just like Pyrrhus, if Xerxes had to win another battle like that, he would have been undone. But he didn't have a chance, because in the following battle, he didn't have to face a mere 7000 Greeks and Spartans, but he had to face 80,000 Greeks, 10,000 of which were Spartans. And I do have to change my statement of the battle of thermopylae K/D ratio being unmatched, because the battle of plateae had a kill ratio much better. Using the different numbers given by the ancient scholars, the K/D ratio was anywhere from 26:1 to 100:1. I never really did any research on that battle, just thermopylae.
And like you said, "Regardless of the means of the battle, it's the ends that determine the victor".
It doesn't matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning. And it doesn't matter if you lose your floorboard in the process.
I dunno, I got no more points to argue, I think we understand each other's point of view, but just still believe in our own. So yeah, I'm done.
"Cards and flowers on your window, your friends all plead for you to stay,
sometimes beginnings aren't so simple, sometimes goodbye's the only way."
"The flame that burns the most is the light of the eternal human spirit; a beacon of love, justice and peace that will never be extinguished. It will triumph over the forces of darkness and illuminate for the whole world. The true path to freedom, through goodness, faith, hope and Love."
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I didn't even like watching it when you stop listening to all the people touting it's realism.
All in all, I give this movie a 8/10 for being a lot more than I expected, and not a bad movie at all.
Im The Essence Of Darkness
Beware Foolish Mortals The Death Nearly Aprochesee[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I haven't seen this movie, I have always had the (mis?)conception that it is an excuse for a bloodfest. However, after reading the reviews about it having great music and battle scenes, I think I may put it on my list of movies to watch. Apparently the battle scenes are sped up and slowed down, creating really powerful moments. Powerful scenes are something that I love, so I think I will see it after all.