to those wondering about the change in "always in action" and also "waiting on another player in co-op" like I was
Official Blizzard Quote:
After a lot of playing at high levels we realized returning to town and breaking up the action is actually good. There are some more designery reasons that reinforce all of this, but the bottom line is that the action is very important, and being actively engaged in the action. Being able to be out and killing for hours and hours straight was negating the fun elements. Just like a story arc has highs and lows, a game needs to promote those ups and downs through its mechanics.
As far as harming co-op, there's really no difference now. Before you'd say "WAIT UP" and everyone would have to stop while you examined each item and decided to sell, salvage, or keep it. In the best case scenario everyone would agree to stop and do this at the same time. It's no different than everyone agreeing to head back to town, and in fact it provides a more prominent, not to mention safe, pause point where everyone can take care of a few quick tasks, and then head back out.
Say your friend's inventory is full, but yours isn't, well you both decide to TP and while he's going through his bag you have time to craft a few things, or alt+tab free of fear to read reddit or something. Whatever. It's not different to the co-op game because you had to stop before, and the benefits to being in town now are actually pretty substantial.
No this is not incompetence.
This is an example of something not working the way they expected and they acted accordingly. You have to remember for the couple of hundred loud voices on a forum, there are many thousand of silent onres playing the Beta. That data is going back to good ol'Blizzard HQ and are more than likely being compared against targets and benchmarks. The targets and benchmarks will not only be about bugs but also about timeframes (eg: time spent in towns, time to Lvl up, etc.,.) and general ease of use. (other stuff is there I'm sure but I won't speculate further).
This is another way of making the game playable for a wider audience. Like it or not, the people ultimately have a business to run. Like it or not, for every die hard fan boy (like us) there are going to be hundreds of other people who will still buy the game whenever it comes out.
To call the changes incompetent on their part is simply wrong.
Also kind of confused as to why they spent so much time encouraging the "fast paced combat" aspect of the game and then eradicated the main systems they added to compliment it. But, I can't say I dislike the changes.
As for the stats, I don't mind them being changed to their current standing. However, I don't understand why the creators of the game just recently started to realize that they needed to be changed. For a major system like stats, it should have already been concrete by now. But, at least they're perfecting them and sharing with us what they're doing.
I liked the mystic and enchants and I wish there was a way to make her cooperate with the game instead of removing her entirely. Hopefully she'll be reintroduced in an expansion...
I've got to be honest, I think this is all good news:
-scrolls for ID and TP are pointless. They're monetary value is negligible and now we don't have to waste inventory space carrying tomes and time going back to town to find out if an item is even worth keeping or not. Hope the door doesn't wrinkle their pages on the way out.
-Thank you for making normal items non-salvagable. Now when I'm feeling OCD I won't have to pick up EVERYTHING to salvage for scraps and hunks of metal. Also, I don't see a problem with crappy items dropping. If you remember back to D2, normal items weren't always worthless due to runewords and "cruel" attributes and stuff. You never know how mechanics like that will play into this game.
-Mystic.... wtf did the mystic even do? I don't remember. Peace, bitch.
-good ole attributes. Welcome home. I agree that it caters to there being "1 right mathematical formula" for each class, but the Blizzard guys have all acknowledged that issue before and I'm SURE they will do something to add depth to the system in that regard.
-Cauldron gone, no sweat. Especially with TPs back in order. Don't under-estimate the need to break up gameplay. This game looks really action-packed, so it will be nice to regroup and sell items in town every once and awhile.
Good job Blizzard. Take as much time as you need and make this game F'ing glorious. We've waited this long, what's another few months. I also agree with people saying these changes are a sign of PROGRESS, not DELAY.
Why can't Jay Wilson just call a spade a spade for once?? Something like:
"I, Jay Wilson, have failed to do my job to date. I am charged with designing a game from the ground up and some of the core concepts I committed to early on have turned out to be poor design choices in hindsight in my opinion. Therefore, massive reworking needed to be done to correct my mistakes. Also, other core game mechanics such as runes are still up in the air as a result and can't even be discussed publicly yet. After all, if I discussed them publicly and they are also mistakes, I'll look just as foolish about those choices as the ones I'm apologizing for today. All of this has obviously had a detrimental effect on release of the game. I'm not going to give you any further insight into a release date time frame because I like to have the option of constantly revising my most core beliefs about what the game should be and do so all in the name of delivering the best game to you because that argument's such a convenient one for me to make. I will do my best to finally get it right this time and release to you (someday) the game you should have had months ago."
I've had a few hours to think about all the changes... the only good one is getting rid of the Scroll of Identify. It was always just an annoying thing taking up room in your inventory.
They have completely changed the direction of the game.
Why have worthless items in the game? "to make good items that much better" !?!? Stupid.
They said in the past that they didn't like that fact that Cow levels in D2 were littered with JUNK, but now there will be junk in D3.
They said in the past that they want to keep you in the action, then why take out "inventory vendors" (cubes), and FORCE us to go back to town.
They said in the past that pretty much all items (except class specific ones (ie handbows)) are viable by all classes... uhm, not anymore, why the hell would a Wizard ever want Strength and Dexterity on an item (unless it's a melee mage)?!
Force us to have potion on the hotbar?! If I'm a ranged character I really shouldn't be getting hit that much, unless I'm a complete noob; the slot could be some other item or skill more useful.
They really have veered off course from what they told us they wanted the game to be in the past; and I'm not liking the new direction.
I think everything about this update is pretty great, except for the removal of the Cauldron of Jordan and Nephalem Cube. I felt like it was so cool to be able to stay in battle for as long as you wanted, and not need to return to town whenever you got a full inventory. I wish they kept it, but oh well. I haven't played the beta so it's not too big of a deal to me, but the concept sounds glorious. I love the stat changes. Especially becoming a Demon Hunter, and getting +dodge. That will be great later on, especially if you want to be a more close ranged trap DH (which is what I'll be doing). Hopefully all these changes were for the better, but I guess we'll find out.
I've got to be honest, I think this is all good news:
-scrolls for ID and TP are pointless. They're monetary value is negligible and now we don't have to waste inventory space carrying tomes and time going back to town to find out if an item is even worth keeping or not. Hope the door doesn't wrinkle their pages on the way out.
-Thank you for making normal items non-salvagable. Now when I'm feeling OCD I won't have to pick up EVERYTHING to salvage for scraps and hunks of metal. Also, I don't see a problem with crappy items dropping. If you remember back to D2, normal items weren't always worthless due to runewords and "cruel" attributes and stuff. You never know how mechanics like that will play into this game.
-Mystic.... wtf did the mystic even do? I don't remember. Peace, bitch.
-good ole attributes. Welcome home. I agree that it caters to there being "1 right mathematical formula" for each class, but the Blizzard guys have all acknowledged that issue before and I'm SURE they will do something to add depth to the system in that regard.
-Cauldron gone, no sweat. Especially with TPs back in order. Don't under-estimate the need to break up gameplay. This game looks really action-packed, so it will be nice to regroup and sell items in town every once and awhile.
Good job Blizzard. Take as much time as you need and make this game F'ing glorious. We've waited this long, what's another few months. I also agree with people saying these changes are a sign of PROGRESS, not DELAY.
I was gonna write a long post about my thoughts on the changes, but I decided I'd just quote this guy instead.
Most of the changes are minor improvements, though I have to say I really enjoyed having the cauldron and the cube at my disposal all the time. But as nobody has played through hell or inferno combined with the fact commons can't be salvaged anymore, we just have mo idea how it's going to work out until we get the game in our hands. Hopefully they find a nice balance.
Now I'm looking forward to the rune and skill changes. I'm praying they remove the need for the altar and find a better way to manage skills.
Likewise. These changes are spot on, and I'd rather Blizz take their time with this product. The fact that this game is going back to some D2 style action, even if a touch different, is fine by me.
No one will remember if the game is late, only if it's great.
The hight of Arrogance in my opinion.
I think the Mystic removal is more about the rune system they are working on.
Overall I'm at the point now where they can sit here all day posting to me about what they are doing behind closed doors but I couldn't care anyless after all these delays and bullshit stories, unless your giving me a release date, i'm over it.
In my opinion, if these iterations are yielding such major changes, something is broken at the core of the game.
They are changing:
Skills
Runes
Attributes
That's the core of how charaters behave and relate to the game engine. These are MAJOR changes, and I am justifiably concerned.
Dont forget items, which blizz has stated itself is the heart of what diablo is all about... Pretty shitty that there are so many huge changes that are going down now in the beta... After blizz keeps stating it is nearly complete and being polished etc. Really these changes dont reflect polishing.... Removing the mystic? Did anyone else go through all the enchants that were there? There were TONS of customization. Only to be completely removed. So maddening that so many changes weren't figured out pre beta/release hype.
The Cauldron of Jordan and Nephalem Cube have been removed.
This is a step back!
Wasn't the idea not to loose past from the combat as much as possible.
Salvage you inventory in 10sec. seems much better then cast TP(2sec) go to BS(6sec) talk to BS(2sec) and then salvage(10sec).
I did hate to go often in town in D2, because the action(game) was outside
Barbarians kinda got screwed with the stat changes, didn't they? Seems like they need Str/Dex/Vit and a little Intellect(?) - while other classes need maybe 2 at the most.
No. Health globes are supposed to scale with max life... and Barbs should have TONS of that.
The Int change is there so when a Wizard/Witch Doctor pick them up, they'll have a meaningful impact late-game.
Dex will help a Barb, but only for avoidance. Barb should soak, not avoid, but playstyles will vary.
Monk kit is avoidance, Barb kit is reduction.
The stats make sense, but I feel it's oversimplification. I will miss Precision.
Terrible terrible news. So much fuss about nothing. Changes are meh, but stat change is bad. It will require re-itemization of EVERY item in game.
And not only that, how long until they realize that you dont have any reward for leveling 30-60, and implement stat allocation for every level like in D2? That will take even more time => even more delay. This stat change should be done YEARS ago. No way they should go in development so far, and change something so critical for every rpg which is stats...
Someone summed it up perfectly with "New definition of polishing" image few pages ago.
"No one will remember if the game is late, only if its great" - Jay wilson.
"Everyone will criticize every bug, every glitch, client error, there is no perfection" - Rimka
I think a lot of people are really misunderstanding what Blizzard said. These are changes that they've been working on and that they've already done, this isn't something that's adding a lot of time before release.
They removed the Mystic, but kept the Jeweler? o_0
Yes the Mystic and enchanting IS what Gem/Sockets USED to be, but Gems no longer add useful/fun stats. All they do is add vitality or some other useless stat...
The Mystic had what was the flavor and most important aspect of what Gems/Sockets used to have... +ELEMENTAL DAMAGE, AND LIFESTEAL modifications. Now that those are gone, I shudder to think of the LACK of character customization this game is headed towards... >_<
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They are changing:
Skills
Runes
Attributes
That's the core of how charaters behave and relate to the game engine. These are MAJOR changes, and I am justifiably concerned.
-Thomas Jefferson
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AdministratorAfter a lot of playing at high levels we realized returning to town and breaking up the action is actually good. There are some more designery reasons that reinforce all of this, but the bottom line is that the action is very important, and being actively engaged in the action. Being able to be out and killing for hours and hours straight was negating the fun elements. Just like a story arc has highs and lows, a game needs to promote those ups and downs through its mechanics.
As far as harming co-op, there's really no difference now. Before you'd say "WAIT UP" and everyone would have to stop while you examined each item and decided to sell, salvage, or keep it. In the best case scenario everyone would agree to stop and do this at the same time. It's no different than everyone agreeing to head back to town, and in fact it provides a more prominent, not to mention safe, pause point where everyone can take care of a few quick tasks, and then head back out.
Say your friend's inventory is full, but yours isn't, well you both decide to TP and while he's going through his bag you have time to craft a few things, or alt+tab free of fear to read reddit or something. Whatever. It's not different to the co-op game because you had to stop before, and the benefits to being in town now are actually pretty substantial.
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AdministratorNo this is not incompetence.
This is an example of something not working the way they expected and they acted accordingly. You have to remember for the couple of hundred loud voices on a forum, there are many thousand of silent onres playing the Beta. That data is going back to good ol'Blizzard HQ and are more than likely being compared against targets and benchmarks. The targets and benchmarks will not only be about bugs but also about timeframes (eg: time spent in towns, time to Lvl up, etc.,.) and general ease of use. (other stuff is there I'm sure but I won't speculate further).
This is another way of making the game playable for a wider audience. Like it or not, the people ultimately have a business to run. Like it or not, for every die hard fan boy (like us) there are going to be hundreds of other people who will still buy the game whenever it comes out.
To call the changes incompetent on their part is simply wrong.
As for the stats, I don't mind them being changed to their current standing. However, I don't understand why the creators of the game just recently started to realize that they needed to be changed. For a major system like stats, it should have already been concrete by now. But, at least they're perfecting them and sharing with us what they're doing.
I liked the mystic and enchants and I wish there was a way to make her cooperate with the game instead of removing her entirely. Hopefully she'll be reintroduced in an expansion...
-scrolls for ID and TP are pointless. They're monetary value is negligible and now we don't have to waste inventory space carrying tomes and time going back to town to find out if an item is even worth keeping or not. Hope the door doesn't wrinkle their pages on the way out.
-Thank you for making normal items non-salvagable. Now when I'm feeling OCD I won't have to pick up EVERYTHING to salvage for scraps and hunks of metal. Also, I don't see a problem with crappy items dropping. If you remember back to D2, normal items weren't always worthless due to runewords and "cruel" attributes and stuff. You never know how mechanics like that will play into this game.
-Mystic.... wtf did the mystic even do? I don't remember. Peace, bitch.
-good ole attributes. Welcome home. I agree that it caters to there being "1 right mathematical formula" for each class, but the Blizzard guys have all acknowledged that issue before and I'm SURE they will do something to add depth to the system in that regard.
-Cauldron gone, no sweat. Especially with TPs back in order. Don't under-estimate the need to break up gameplay. This game looks really action-packed, so it will be nice to regroup and sell items in town every once and awhile.
Good job Blizzard. Take as much time as you need and make this game F'ing glorious. We've waited this long, what's another few months. I also agree with people saying these changes are a sign of PROGRESS, not DELAY.
"I, Jay Wilson, have failed to do my job to date. I am charged with designing a game from the ground up and some of the core concepts I committed to early on have turned out to be poor design choices in hindsight in my opinion. Therefore, massive reworking needed to be done to correct my mistakes. Also, other core game mechanics such as runes are still up in the air as a result and can't even be discussed publicly yet. After all, if I discussed them publicly and they are also mistakes, I'll look just as foolish about those choices as the ones I'm apologizing for today. All of this has obviously had a detrimental effect on release of the game. I'm not going to give you any further insight into a release date time frame because I like to have the option of constantly revising my most core beliefs about what the game should be and do so all in the name of delivering the best game to you because that argument's such a convenient one for me to make. I will do my best to finally get it right this time and release to you (someday) the game you should have had months ago."
They have completely changed the direction of the game.
Why have worthless items in the game? "to make good items that much better" !?!? Stupid.
They said in the past that they didn't like that fact that Cow levels in D2 were littered with JUNK, but now there will be junk in D3.
They said in the past that they want to keep you in the action, then why take out "inventory vendors" (cubes), and FORCE us to go back to town.
They said in the past that pretty much all items (except class specific ones (ie handbows)) are viable by all classes... uhm, not anymore, why the hell would a Wizard ever want Strength and Dexterity on an item (unless it's a melee mage)?!
Force us to have potion on the hotbar?! If I'm a ranged character I really shouldn't be getting hit that much, unless I'm a complete noob; the slot could be some other item or skill more useful.
They really have veered off course from what they told us they wanted the game to be in the past; and I'm not liking the new direction.
Likewise. These changes are spot on, and I'd rather Blizz take their time with this product. The fact that this game is going back to some D2 style action, even if a touch different, is fine by me.
Director, Writer, Producer @
http://outofthevoidp...ns.blogspot.com
The hight of Arrogance in my opinion.
I think the Mystic removal is more about the rune system they are working on.
Overall I'm at the point now where they can sit here all day posting to me about what they are doing behind closed doors but I couldn't care anyless after all these delays and bullshit stories, unless your giving me a release date, i'm over it.
Dont forget items, which blizz has stated itself is the heart of what diablo is all about... Pretty shitty that there are so many huge changes that are going down now in the beta... After blizz keeps stating it is nearly complete and being polished etc. Really these changes dont reflect polishing.... Removing the mystic? Did anyone else go through all the enchants that were there? There were TONS of customization. Only to be completely removed. So maddening that so many changes weren't figured out pre beta/release hype.
- The Cauldron of Jordan and Nephalem Cube have been removed.
This is a step back!Wasn't the idea not to loose past from the combat as much as possible.
Salvage you inventory in 10sec. seems much better then cast TP(2sec) go to BS(6sec) talk to BS(2sec) and then salvage(10sec).
I did hate to go often in town in D2, because the action(game) was outside
No. Health globes are supposed to scale with max life... and Barbs should have TONS of that.
The Int change is there so when a Wizard/Witch Doctor pick them up, they'll have a meaningful impact late-game.
Dex will help a Barb, but only for avoidance. Barb should soak, not avoid, but playstyles will vary.
Monk kit is avoidance, Barb kit is reduction.
The stats make sense, but I feel it's oversimplification. I will miss Precision.
And not only that, how long until they realize that you dont have any reward for leveling 30-60, and implement stat allocation for every level like in D2? That will take even more time => even more delay. This stat change should be done YEARS ago. No way they should go in development so far, and change something so critical for every rpg which is stats...
Someone summed it up perfectly with "New definition of polishing" image few pages ago.
"Everyone will criticize every bug, every glitch, client error, there is no perfection" - Rimka
http://youtu.be/33w99MDBHII
More 1080p Diablo 3 Videos: http://www.youtube.com/rgdiablo3
RG's Youtube Channel a great source for Diablo III Video Tutorials, Tips, Tricks, and overall OWNAGE!
Yes the Mystic and enchanting IS what Gem/Sockets USED to be, but Gems no longer add useful/fun stats. All they do is add vitality or some other useless stat...
The Mystic had what was the flavor and most important aspect of what Gems/Sockets used to have... +ELEMENTAL DAMAGE, AND LIFESTEAL modifications. Now that those are gone, I shudder to think of the LACK of character customization this game is headed towards... >_<