they have been saying they want to keep people in the flow of the game, keep things fast paced and (brutal, fun).
Finishing moves would not pull people out of the flow of the game. It is exactly equivalent to an elaborate death animation which all bosses have and which you just stand around to watch anyway. The only difference is now your character gets involved in this animation.
Quote from "tristen620" »
but think about it, if you had to keep an eye on the boss' hp to know when to expect to do some trivial clicking game it would pull you out of whatever intense frenzy a person could get worked up into while fighting a fearsom foe
No.. the boss would effectively be dead at the point that you initiate the move. He would slump over and otherwise stop moving and attacking and just be waiting for you to finish him.
And if you could execute these moves in the middle of a fight as well (they could just be optional during fights), no one said you would have to watch the HP... the boss could just fall into a momentary stupor while the runes/triggers appear which are large and obvious and all you have to do is click them... (the runes are just an idea to get your character involved, don't get hung up on the idea).
I don't care how he's summoned or what effects are used..I just want the fight to be worth it. The only encounter in Diablo 2 that was "worth it" was Duriel in Normal mode..passed that, it was all just really really easy crap with some fancy shmancy effects. The only thing that comes close are the Council Members, the beasts and elites that get summoned when you're activating the 5 seals, and the batches of monsters Baal dispatches..especially the Minions of Destruction (is that what they're called? I forgot..seriously.).
I don't know why people were impressed with the head bite. It really wasn't that interesting.
Scripted events are scripted. To expect something like that to occur is absurd. Melee characters would pretty much be screwed by that and, indeed, the fight becomes tedious for melee characters and boring for those not impacted by melee range insta-gibs.
The reality is that it's no different than element or physical resistance in D2, except slightly different. That is to say, range hate against a player instead of resistance against a mob.
I don't even think the mechanic is a good one to be honest. Obviously it has to have a trigger, otherwise it will become a random annoyance and the fight will always be a gamble for melee characters (read: not related to skill but luck). Because it has a trigger, all you have to do is learn to avoid the trigger. How that's any different than any other fight in any other ARPG is beyond me.
For those that are furiously typing up a storm in response to me, please examine the following and tell me how this will change up how you approach a boss fight.
Diablo 2: Bosses have certain animation and A.I. queues which result in specific skills being used. You learn them in order to avoid them in order to beat them.
Diablo 3: Bosses have certain animation and A.I. queues which result in specific skills being used. You learn them in order to avoid them in order to beat them.
Now, I'm not saying I'm not happy for this, after all, they touted that we'd be using 'tactics' in D3... but so far what they've shown us is that 'tactics' is what we've been doing all along in all ARPG's. Which is why I'm not impressed.
With the mechanic, not the animation. The animation was cool.
Obviously it has to have a trigger, otherwise it will become a random annoyance and the fight will always be a gamble for melee characters (read: not related to skill but luck).
I agree that it should not be included in the game as a random event that can occur during battle. Even if you are not playing hardcore, players still don't want to die as a result of such an obviously random event that they have no control over.
Quote from "Credge" »
Diablo 3: Bosses have certain animation and A.I. queues which result in specific skills being used. You learn them in order to avoid them in order to beat them.
Given that these are the parameters that the designers have to work with anyway, there is no harm in trying to make the scripted events as interesting as possible, even if they are just scripted events.
I think they should keep the decapitation animation, but it only triggers on a killing blow. That way you would be dead anyway, but at least you get to see an interesting death animation that relates to the viciousness of the boss you are fighting.
EDIT: In fact, I think that it might already be an event that only occurs due to a killing blow. So there is really nothing to argue about how it could hurt the gameplay.
Credge, as far as I understand it, they are not trying to say their bosses are going to be revolutionary. They cited such inspirations as Zelda and GoW in other articles, so they're just transcribing ideas. In Diablo II, though, I would disagree- I never bothered learning the AI of bosses because I could just spam skills and they'd die.
As for Diablo II in this instance:
Melee characters would pretty much be screwed by that and, indeed, the fight becomes tedious for melee characters and boring for those not impacted by melee range insta-gibs.
If you're still talking about that bite-off-the-head thing, that only occurs when you die, which would mean it doesn't matter who you are- when you die, you get it. And, like previously said, they said that might not even make it into the final game.
And as far as tailoring certain bosses or mini-bosses to combat different types of characters better than others, I see no issue. That's how they offer variation in play experience. Given, it could have been a lot better in Diablo II, but Duriel was obviously tailored against glass cannon casters and Nihlithak was tailored against melee characters. Having to choose your character and thinking, "This might impact how easy certain aspects of the game are for me in the future," is, I think, a good idea. It keeps characters equal while changing how you approach different scenarios.
The reality is that it's no different than element or physical resistance in D2, except slightly different. That is to say, range hate against a player instead of resistance against a mob.
I didn't quite understand that (the last sentence there), would you mind rephrasing it a bit?
Because it has a trigger, all you have to do is learn to avoid the trigger. How that's any different than any other fight in any other ARPG is beyond me.
As far as I know, that would be an improvement from Diablo II, where they would do the same things regardless. At least this would give you a choice, or something to learn from the boss.
As I said in my above post, IF the Fatalities would be included, they would not be scripted nor random during battles. That would just be fucking retarded. They are fatalities, finishing moves. Not random or normal attacks.
ok, thanks for reiterating -your opinion- (strike that) your comment :confused:
I hope they don't make the mini-bosses so impressive that the act bosses' entrances have less of an effect when we fight them. I definitely don't want every boss to appear in a spurt of blood or whatever. I'd like to save most of the glory for the head honcho bosses.
I dont really care for the head biting, its whatev to me. Aslong as the fights are fun and a challenge im fine. Also im kinda irritated that theyre only talking about the Act 2 Boss and not the Act 4 one or something, that goes to show how much longer were going to have to wait for the game.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]"The lord of murder shall perish, but in his death he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny. Chaos shall be sown in their footsteps"
-So sayeth the wise Alaundo
I would just like to say that I really appreciate all of the articles you guys have been posting here lately. Especially with the lack of any news from Blizzard. You guys have been doing a wonderful job here the last week or two and all I would like to say is keep the articles and what not coming. It's keeping us all interested. Thank you!
I think what would be really cool if they would have quite a few different death animations and perhaps fatalities in some instances like with the siegebreaker. Also imagine how cool it would be to see the monsters that just killed you do a shrilling victory scream of some kind. Perhaps they could even make it so that they stab at your body even after you dead, just to kinda give that true demonic effect!! would be leeeeet
I think what would be really cool if they would have quite a few different death animations and perhaps fatalities in some instances like with the siegebreaker. Also imagine how cool it would be to see the monsters that just killed you do a shrilling victory scream of some kind. Perhaps they could even make it so that they stab at your body even after you dead, just to kinda give that true demonic effect!! would be leeeeet
Or maybe even feast upon your flesh while you are laying there, dead.
It would indeed be "leet" but your body will become a ragdoll and probably fly away a very, very long distance.
Once you die and you start flying away as a ragdoll, the boss will suddenly send out tentacles after you, catching you while mid-air and pulling you back to him... Proceeding to feast upon your flesh xD
Jamoose, that idea could be one of the most badass things I've read on this forum.
Or close to it, anyways.
Seriously though, that would just... wow.
Blow my mind.
Either that, or it would be cool to have that "FINISH HIM" style thing from MK, where you stand all dazed, and the boss gets to pull of hardcore fatalities.
Such as, the boss could burrow down into the ground, and surface, sending you flying into the air, and back down into his maw.
Awesome.
They would have to occur rather infrequently though, enough so that you could see them all by playing through all difficulties, but not too much that they get stale and repetitive.
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Quote from "Sixen" »
"One in every 10 million people can potentially have a headache from this pill." God forbid she is the 0.000000001% of having a headache.
[quote name='Fuzojix']"OH MY GOD, THAT THING JUST BIT OFF THE BARBARIANS HEAD!!" is basically all I remember thinking from the first gameplay trailer. That several second snippet of badassery (Thanks to the Siegebreaker Assault Beast) had me pumped already. That, combined with how he smashed through a wall to trample all four heroes, made me anticipate fighting that boss once Diablo III rolled around.
Very Good One i like this two thumbs up. Atleast someone is thinking. And that is what i have been saying ever since i seen the video myself. The thing that alot of people miss is that the beast grabs the female WD and goes to rip her head off but decides to throw her into the ground as well. This minor but BIG detail tells us that their "fatalities" system is D3 not only tells us that there are ones in the game but multiple ones for each boss. Saying on that just like he said the end bosses such as diablo himself (if hes even one of the bosses). so if each boss say has atlaest 2 different "fatalities" then on top of that their attacks and spells so this can add so much complexion its gonna be sweet. I am ready to see how many ways and times i die instanly with my friends. DIE HARD DIABLO FAN
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtFupUPO67Y
Ideas for bosses in D3 to finish u.:P
Finishing moves would not pull people out of the flow of the game. It is exactly equivalent to an elaborate death animation which all bosses have and which you just stand around to watch anyway. The only difference is now your character gets involved in this animation.
No.. the boss would effectively be dead at the point that you initiate the move. He would slump over and otherwise stop moving and attacking and just be waiting for you to finish him.
And if you could execute these moves in the middle of a fight as well (they could just be optional during fights), no one said you would have to watch the HP... the boss could just fall into a momentary stupor while the runes/triggers appear which are large and obvious and all you have to do is click them... (the runes are just an idea to get your character involved, don't get hung up on the idea).
Rise and rise again, until lambs become lions
Scripted events are scripted. To expect something like that to occur is absurd. Melee characters would pretty much be screwed by that and, indeed, the fight becomes tedious for melee characters and boring for those not impacted by melee range insta-gibs.
The reality is that it's no different than element or physical resistance in D2, except slightly different. That is to say, range hate against a player instead of resistance against a mob.
I don't even think the mechanic is a good one to be honest. Obviously it has to have a trigger, otherwise it will become a random annoyance and the fight will always be a gamble for melee characters (read: not related to skill but luck). Because it has a trigger, all you have to do is learn to avoid the trigger. How that's any different than any other fight in any other ARPG is beyond me.
For those that are furiously typing up a storm in response to me, please examine the following and tell me how this will change up how you approach a boss fight.
Diablo 2: Bosses have certain animation and A.I. queues which result in specific skills being used. You learn them in order to avoid them in order to beat them.
Diablo 3: Bosses have certain animation and A.I. queues which result in specific skills being used. You learn them in order to avoid them in order to beat them.
Now, I'm not saying I'm not happy for this, after all, they touted that we'd be using 'tactics' in D3... but so far what they've shown us is that 'tactics' is what we've been doing all along in all ARPG's. Which is why I'm not impressed.
With the mechanic, not the animation. The animation was cool.
I agree that it should not be included in the game as a random event that can occur during battle. Even if you are not playing hardcore, players still don't want to die as a result of such an obviously random event that they have no control over.
Given that these are the parameters that the designers have to work with anyway, there is no harm in trying to make the scripted events as interesting as possible, even if they are just scripted events.
I think they should keep the decapitation animation, but it only triggers on a killing blow. That way you would be dead anyway, but at least you get to see an interesting death animation that relates to the viciousness of the boss you are fighting.
EDIT: In fact, I think that it might already be an event that only occurs due to a killing blow. So there is really nothing to argue about how it could hurt the gameplay.
As for Diablo II in this instance:
If you're still talking about that bite-off-the-head thing, that only occurs when you die, which would mean it doesn't matter who you are- when you die, you get it. And, like previously said, they said that might not even make it into the final game.
And as far as tailoring certain bosses or mini-bosses to combat different types of characters better than others, I see no issue. That's how they offer variation in play experience. Given, it could have been a lot better in Diablo II, but Duriel was obviously tailored against glass cannon casters and Nihlithak was tailored against melee characters. Having to choose your character and thinking, "This might impact how easy certain aspects of the game are for me in the future," is, I think, a good idea. It keeps characters equal while changing how you approach different scenarios.
I didn't quite understand that (the last sentence there), would you mind rephrasing it a bit?
As far as I know, that would be an improvement from Diablo II, where they would do the same things regardless. At least this would give you a choice, or something to learn from the boss.
ok, thanks for reiterating -your opinion- (strike that) your comment :confused:
-So sayeth the wise Alaundo
I would just like to say that I really appreciate all of the articles you guys have been posting here lately. Especially with the lack of any news from Blizzard. You guys have been doing a wonderful job here the last week or two and all I would like to say is keep the articles and what not coming. It's keeping us all interested. Thank you!
I think what would be really cool if they would have quite a few different death animations and perhaps fatalities in some instances like with the siegebreaker. Also imagine how cool it would be to see the monsters that just killed you do a shrilling victory scream of some kind. Perhaps they could even make it so that they stab at your body even after you dead, just to kinda give that true demonic effect!! would be leeeeet
Or maybe even feast upon your flesh while you are laying there, dead.
:thumbsup:
Once you die and you start flying away as a ragdoll, the boss will suddenly send out tentacles after you, catching you while mid-air and pulling you back to him... Proceeding to feast upon your flesh xD
And your barb will go GREAWOORAHHHRGGHHHH!@#@%#^
Or close to it, anyways.
Seriously though, that would just... wow.
Blow my mind.
Either that, or it would be cool to have that "FINISH HIM" style thing from MK, where you stand all dazed, and the boss gets to pull of hardcore fatalities.
Such as, the boss could burrow down into the ground, and surface, sending you flying into the air, and back down into his maw.
Awesome.
They would have to occur rather infrequently though, enough so that you could see them all by playing through all difficulties, but not too much that they get stale and repetitive.
Well, it could go the way of DOW, and just make the thing immune to all damage while he is using his fatality.
Very Good One i like this two thumbs up. Atleast someone is thinking. And that is what i have been saying ever since i seen the video myself. The thing that alot of people miss is that the beast grabs the female WD and goes to rip her head off but decides to throw her into the ground as well. This minor but BIG detail tells us that their "fatalities" system is D3 not only tells us that there are ones in the game but multiple ones for each boss. Saying on that just like he said the end bosses such as diablo himself (if hes even one of the bosses). so if each boss say has atlaest 2 different "fatalities" then on top of that their attacks and spells so this can add so much complexion its gonna be sweet. I am ready to see how many ways and times i die instanly with my friends. DIE HARD DIABLO FAN
~Mike~
Or perhaps luring my party to there death is a better idea *evil laugh*
I did love in D2 though when the Necro would scream. It still makes me laugh.
More to the point, I love the idea of twists being put on Boss fights. I love some additional challenges.
"Losers always whine about their best, winners go home and Fvck the prom queen."