This really sounds good.. especially for the passives and utility skills. And this way you can pick your favourite skills like whirlwind and shockwave and completely leave out those others you don't want to use. If you were pretty much forced to 1 tree only you would probably pick all the skills in that tree because you would have to spend the points somewhere in that tree.
With this new system we will have so many options because we can choose from 3 trees so even the 1 point you are going to put to every skill can make a big effect on your character. If you put shockwave and whirlwind for example and take 1 point for all the other skills you will spend quite many points to all skills. Instead you could pick leap and cleave along with shockwave and whirlwind and save rest of the points and use them to improve your character with passive or utility skills.
Is this the answer for players not using all skills ? If so It's a bad one, only means i will have to waste more skill point, If I am going to use something I am going to max it out or get as close to it as possible...
Whats the big deal if the low tier skills are so good that you will gladly spend some points to those? I would hate to spend 1 point only for a crappy skill that doesn't do much good just to get higher tier skills. Most of the low tier skills are probably some basic killing skills and passive damage boosting skills. For example why would anyone leave out damage mitigation or damage boosting skill from the very first tier?
You have 3 trees imagine all the options for those 5 points you need to pick from 3 trees. If tier 1 has like 2-3 skills for each tree that is 6-9 skills where you have to spend 5 points.. are you sure there isn't anything that you wouldn't want to spend those 4 extra points instead of only 1?
edit. ps. go play diablo 2 if your dream is that old crappy skill system.
The issue of having a 'very best skill build ever!!' matters a lot less in a game like Diablo, than in a game like WoW.
It doesnt really matter if all possible builds in Diablo are equal or not. As long as they are diverse and interesting, people are going to try them out, because they can and because they want the challenge. Thats what happened in Diablo 2.
Dont know what I should think about the removal of differentiated skill trees, tbh it probably shouldnt matter that much. It makes each class play a bit more like one class, rather than 3 main specs, which is both good and bad.
But in the end it only matters that Blizz manage to throw in enough interesting skills to pick, so people will want to try out different builds, even if they arent the 'optimal spec'.
(which obviously also means that while I think respecs should be possible, it cant be something you can do every other moment, as in WoW, as that will indeed lead to min-maxing of specs rather than different builds).
Blizz said it perfectly back at WWI, in Diablo all skills needs to feel overpowered, all active skills should be crazy enough to want trying them out. Then perfect balance is much less of an issue.
Ya, just makes it so you have to deal with level ups outside of combat as you are blind when doing so, they could always make the panel see thru though (although they better give a "undo" option for misclicks as this big ass panel could have you freaking out when under attack).
A "undo" option imo is long overdue in Diablo.
Quote from "Shadout" »
Blizz said it perfectly back at WWI, in Diablo all skills needs to feel overpowered, all active skills should be crazy enough to want trying them out. Then perfect balance is much less of an issue.
QFT.
Anyone remember that skill that trails fire behind you or fire-enchant for a sorcy? Two totally garbage abilities they shouldve left out.
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The WoW-Style tiers are also news to me, it surprises me yet why they continue to change so much into WoW. Why not some infamous blizzard originality, something completely new.
Yep.
The graphic style (colourful/bright), the style of gear (big shoulder pads), the ability to respec, the skill trees look and the yellow question mark 'quest indicator'.
All of it heavily reminiscent of WOW.
And I fucking hate WOW (specially the community).
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it'd be good to have 2 different builds avaible like in wow for 1000g
In wow it cost 5gold for your first respec and it went up by 5g everytime you did it (maximum 50g).
Waiting a week with the same spec will decrease your respec costs by 5g, and continues week after week.
In WOW it was just to easy to respec, especially with dailyquests available. If you had no gold to respec you could just hop on your epic flying mount and in 15-25 minutes have enough gold to respec.
Way to easy IMO and thusly no comparisons should be made to WOW->D3 respeccing as it is just to easy to do.
Im thinking they should make you have to wait a week to respec again (flat rate) and you should have to complete some sort of quest or hard task in order to respec.
EDIT:
Apologies, are you referring to the respec totem? It wasn't around when I was on WOW, but I did hear about its development.
It is a relic or item you would hold or use and it would have a spec already programmed into it forgoeing a traditional respec?
I loved the idea when I was a paladin switching for holy->ret 3 times a day but for Diablo3 it deffinatly doesnt fit.
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Although ... when it comes to a simple visual aspect choice like a quest indicator icon and such things, i guess saying "its from WoW" somehow still is a valid argument on its own.
Why? I dont exactly know, but seriously, taking basically icons out of another game just doesnt sound right (unless the same series) if you get what i mean. :confused:
Said it better than I can.
That petition against the art development in d3 has surpassed 60,000 fyi.
Im just worried about all the wow-fags storming over and casualising D3 more than it already has been.
WOW didn't start off gay... it became that way from its casual-centric user base.
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Hmmm... while I follow the reasoning behind the decision to make all trees integrated, does this not defeat the purpose of having multiple trees in the first place? I mean, effectively this makes all three trees into one huge tree... The trees are now just a glorified way of categorizing skills. I think they should have some skills in each tree that do require an investment into the tree -- something of a hybrid between the old and new system.
There's still the concept of +All Skills and +Warcries (for example). Prehaps we will find items that only boost skills of certain skil-trees in the game? That would effectively have an impact and require different skill trees.
Quote from "Kenzai" »
Not necessarily.
Firstly, the amount of skills would decrease as you near the center, and secondly, the skill in the center wouldnt be a part of any "tree" (circle third).
The middle one would be kinda like an uber skill i guess...
And i like that concept... Where is it from?
Quote from "Majpain" »
Where is it from I am not sure. I pondered it. I mean quite honestly I'm sick the skill tree do something different please.
Heroes V uses a skill-progression system that is reminiscent of a skill wheel, with basic abilities in the rim, abilities with prereqs further in, and an ultimate skill in the center which was class-specic.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
So, I could spend 2 points in Heightened Senses which is a berserker skill, and 3 points in Bash which is a Juggernaut skill, thus adding up to 5 points and granting me access to the second tier of skills for all of the trees. With this amount of freedom you can see how easy it is then to diversify yourself and your build. You're no longer gaining abilities through investment, but instead more through choice and personal preference.
i think thats a pretty cool idea. kinda like it so far. cant wait to see the finish of it all. ild rather this then the way it is in wow. what say ye?
Dont know what I should think about the removal of differentiated skill trees, tbh it probably shouldnt matter that much. It makes each class play a bit more like one class, rather than 3 main specs, which is both good and bad.
Well I think we will still focus on some tree. If we want like Whirlwind to be our main skill, there will be other skills in that tree that will boost Whirlwinds effectiveness. This way we will focus a bit more on one tree.
But this is also a huge help for balancing the different trees. Now we have access to utility and damage mitigation in other trees and as bashiok said they don't have to put these skills in every tree now that you can just hop to another tree and pick the skills that you like from there.
Although ... when it comes to a simple visual aspect choice like a quest indicator icon and such things, i guess saying "its from WoW" somehow still is a valid argument on its own.
Why? I dont exactly know, but seriously, taking basically icons out of another game just doesnt sound right (unless the same series) if you get what i mean. :confused:
Everything is still a placeholder out there.. they will change as it has been said by bashiok.
Like I said I wasn't present for a release. That was how it was explained to me.
Quote from "Azylium" »
What I don't like about this is not that you're voicing your opinion, but rather that you seem to think that D3 has been more casualized.
Respeccing your skill tree so you don't really have to be that focused on building a character as if you make some dumb choices you can just undo it later on (RPG = Respec Playing Game?)
Bright colourful graphics that remind me of cross between wow and titans quest... nope nothing to make me think its casualized here. :rolleyes:
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What if they made the skill trees look like actual trees made out of skills? How kewl would that be!
(They could even be really colourful with rainbow's criss-crossing them!)
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my initial feeling is a reaction against it because it seems to be further removing an identity based on skills (as someone put in another thread no more fire sorc or cold sorc.. it's just "hey dude do you have ray of frost. cool what level")
also it seems like it's dumbing things down more.. removing more consequences.
if i want an end game skill of a given skill type, then i no longer have to sacrifice something else cool to get it. i can get them both (though maybe at reduced skill level).
i liked the idea of skill trees (like berserker tree for instance) because going down it meant that there were trade offs (if i went down the berserker tree couldn't get the end game battlemaster skills), important decisions that would impact later decisions and gameplay.
that said, as long as there's still important decisions to be had (for instance if skills get very little of their utility at low lvl, so that specializing is rewarded) it may end up being better.
edit: it's really hard to remark on any of these changes out of context of other systems in the game that could impact them.
so like i said, i don't really like the idea, but maybe it makes perfect sense within the game.
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serving only to ensure absolute vulnerability to the pain of their inevitable absence.
The only difference in D2 between sorcs was if you used fireball, lightning/chain lightning or blizzard/frozen orb. And with that focus you automatically "had" to chose the mastery.
I had a nova sorc back in the day, it owned hell cows.
Anything we say about the changes they make are in context with Diablo2 which is a completely different game. I trust blizzard to make a fair and balanced game, they haven't let me down yet (well maybe with WOW but I blame that mostly on vivendi's greed).
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^The real scrub filter.^
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With this new system we will have so many options because we can choose from 3 trees so even the 1 point you are going to put to every skill can make a big effect on your character. If you put shockwave and whirlwind for example and take 1 point for all the other skills you will spend quite many points to all skills. Instead you could pick leap and cleave along with shockwave and whirlwind and save rest of the points and use them to improve your character with passive or utility skills.
Whats the big deal if the low tier skills are so good that you will gladly spend some points to those? I would hate to spend 1 point only for a crappy skill that doesn't do much good just to get higher tier skills. Most of the low tier skills are probably some basic killing skills and passive damage boosting skills. For example why would anyone leave out damage mitigation or damage boosting skill from the very first tier?
You have 3 trees imagine all the options for those 5 points you need to pick from 3 trees. If tier 1 has like 2-3 skills for each tree that is 6-9 skills where you have to spend 5 points.. are you sure there isn't anything that you wouldn't want to spend those 4 extra points instead of only 1?
edit. ps. go play diablo 2 if your dream is that old crappy skill system.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
It doesnt really matter if all possible builds in Diablo are equal or not. As long as they are diverse and interesting, people are going to try them out, because they can and because they want the challenge. Thats what happened in Diablo 2.
Dont know what I should think about the removal of differentiated skill trees, tbh it probably shouldnt matter that much. It makes each class play a bit more like one class, rather than 3 main specs, which is both good and bad.
But in the end it only matters that Blizz manage to throw in enough interesting skills to pick, so people will want to try out different builds, even if they arent the 'optimal spec'.
(which obviously also means that while I think respecs should be possible, it cant be something you can do every other moment, as in WoW, as that will indeed lead to min-maxing of specs rather than different builds).
Blizz said it perfectly back at WWI, in Diablo all skills needs to feel overpowered, all active skills should be crazy enough to want trying them out. Then perfect balance is much less of an issue.
Heroes of Might and Magic V used it... sorta. http://heroes.ag.ru/heroes5/mods/jpg/wheel_5.jpg
BTW, they said they are going to remove redundant skills, so they're probably going to rearrange the whole tree.
A "undo" option imo is long overdue in Diablo.
QFT.
Anyone remember that skill that trails fire behind you or fire-enchant for a sorcy? Two totally garbage abilities they shouldve left out.
^The real scrub filter.^
Yep.
The graphic style (colourful/bright), the style of gear (big shoulder pads), the ability to respec, the skill trees look and the yellow question mark 'quest indicator'.
All of it heavily reminiscent of WOW.
And I fucking hate WOW (specially the community).
^The real scrub filter.^
In wow it cost 5gold for your first respec and it went up by 5g everytime you did it (maximum 50g).
Waiting a week with the same spec will decrease your respec costs by 5g, and continues week after week.
In WOW it was just to easy to respec, especially with dailyquests available. If you had no gold to respec you could just hop on your epic flying mount and in 15-25 minutes have enough gold to respec.
Way to easy IMO and thusly no comparisons should be made to WOW->D3 respeccing as it is just to easy to do.
Im thinking they should make you have to wait a week to respec again (flat rate) and you should have to complete some sort of quest or hard task in order to respec.
EDIT:
Apologies, are you referring to the respec totem? It wasn't around when I was on WOW, but I did hear about its development.
It is a relic or item you would hold or use and it would have a spec already programmed into it forgoeing a traditional respec?
I loved the idea when I was a paladin switching for holy->ret 3 times a day but for Diablo3 it deffinatly doesnt fit.
^The real scrub filter.^
Said it better than I can.
That petition against the art development in d3 has surpassed 60,000 fyi.
Im just worried about all the wow-fags storming over and casualising D3 more than it already has been.
WOW didn't start off gay... it became that way from its casual-centric user base.
^The real scrub filter.^
Heroes V uses a skill-progression system that is reminiscent of a skill wheel, with basic abilities in the rim, abilities with prereqs further in, and an ultimate skill in the center which was class-specic.
Don't know where you're getting "totem" from: http://www.mmo-champion.com/index.php?page=863
i think thats a pretty cool idea. kinda like it so far. cant wait to see the finish of it all. ild rather this then the way it is in wow. what say ye?
But this is also a huge help for balancing the different trees. Now we have access to utility and damage mitigation in other trees and as bashiok said they don't have to put these skills in every tree now that you can just hop to another tree and pick the skills that you like from there.
Everything is still a placeholder out there.. they will change as it has been said by bashiok.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
Respeccing your skill tree so you don't really have to be that focused on building a character as if you make some dumb choices you can just undo it later on (RPG = Respec Playing Game?)
Bright colourful graphics that remind me of cross between wow and titans quest... nope nothing to make me think its casualized here. :rolleyes:
^The real scrub filter.^
I liek everything put infront of me.
What if they made the skill trees look like actual trees made out of skills? How kewl would that be!
(They could even be really colourful with rainbow's criss-crossing them!)
^The real scrub filter.^
But then again it is said that this is not final, so who knows what will happen?
Yeah I think prerequisites is a nice way to keep things balanced out a little.
I'm sure they'll come up with some more things also to keep it balanced. I hope we can get a look at them soon.
^The real scrub filter.^
I forsee nerd-rage if they don't include a "oops, misclick!" button to undo my frequent misclicks.
(Or make it so you have to be out of combat to mess with your charpoints/skills)
^The real scrub filter.^
also it seems like it's dumbing things down more.. removing more consequences.
if i want an end game skill of a given skill type, then i no longer have to sacrifice something else cool to get it. i can get them both (though maybe at reduced skill level).
i liked the idea of skill trees (like berserker tree for instance) because going down it meant that there were trade offs (if i went down the berserker tree couldn't get the end game battlemaster skills), important decisions that would impact later decisions and gameplay.
that said, as long as there's still important decisions to be had (for instance if skills get very little of their utility at low lvl, so that specializing is rewarded) it may end up being better.
edit: it's really hard to remark on any of these changes out of context of other systems in the game that could impact them.
so like i said, i don't really like the idea, but maybe it makes perfect sense within the game.
they'll never see me coming..
life is a sequence of tragedies, inconsistent only by fleeting, elusive moments of pleasure,
serving only to ensure absolute vulnerability to the pain of their inevitable absence.
I had a nova sorc back in the day, it owned hell cows.
Anything we say about the changes they make are in context with Diablo2 which is a completely different game. I trust blizzard to make a fair and balanced game, they haven't let me down yet (well maybe with WOW but I blame that mostly on vivendi's greed).
^The real scrub filter.^