Everything in d2, and I mean everything, was and is based on the characters prime stats. It is not only essential, but crucial to allow the player choose his own stat customization be applied in order to create a well oriented character, e.g- the huge differences between a d2 bowzon and a javazon, the even bigger difference between an everyday ww barb vs a bo-stun caster barb, etc.. everything depends on the stats and the way they are divided accordingly- items, skills, pvm, pvp, simply everything. Taking that away will only result in taking away yet another heartpiece of the originality that is Diablo, in general.
What's next? Auto-Drops from boss monsters like in WoW?
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] It's not death you should be afraid of.. it's life.
"World domination is easy- Comedy is hard" ~Mandy~
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature. <- Just for you, Chaos, and just because it's true.
On the contrary, stats will become a real mechanic this time around.
Well put.....I dont get why people think custom stats in D2 were custom at all....if u didnt build ur stats right u were screwed for the most part....well maybe not screwed but u sure as hell werent as effective overall
Yes, but almost every character class has the same priorities once the target gear has been made available.
Glass cannon or survival build, can be applied to both builds. Difference would be Str requirement for Java and Dex for Bowazon. The main preference was in nearly all cases was still Vitality, which has nothing to do with class-specific stats.
While my stats may have probably differed from WW barbs (for gear requirements), they were identical to most other caster builds from all classes. In fact, my Hdin, Trapsin, Sorc and WCBarb all used the same gear, and had identical amount of stats invested across the board because of this. This speaks even less for diversity and importance of stat distribution.
D2 didn't offer what seven classes should have in terms of diversity. There were two major stat preferences - no max block and max block. Any other kind of differences were made accountable to gear requirements only. The way D3 looks to be set up, it will make each class unique instead of making all classes similar except for gear required stats. Since Blizzard will set up the auto distribution logically, a Sorceress won't be running around with a War Maul in hands, and a Barb won't use gear that is normally ideal for caster classes. On the other hand, Blizzard won't give classes skills they can't use because of this limitation. In other words, each class plays differently and hence the game becomes more diverse.
No, Diablo and WoW are completley different in that aspect. Some things can be taken, this one can't be taken 1 to 1 from WoW. Diablo's bosses are more accessible than in WoW, were it can take anywhere from 30 minutes to multiple hours to reach a boss for loot. A Diablo player will go back and try again if soemthing didn't drop, a WoW player just realized he spent multiple hours for nothing, and has a timer to keep him from doing it again until the next day at the earliest. PLUS - WoW bosses do drop specified loot, but even from here its usually from a pool of 4-8 items. I had to spend a few weeks waiting for my Feral Druid's staff to drop although I always killed the required boss. World drops are horrible way to get gear in WoW, but a good unique is always "just around the corner" in Diablo.
Your rhetorical sarcasm just doesn't make enough sense to be funny to those who know how Diablo differs from WoW, and for those who don't know, you're just creating a hate towards a game they have never played. Good job!
Quote from "PPsyche" »
One of the main point of RPG is building your character the way you like it, the more diversity, the more you are attached to your character because it is just the way you want it to be. Taking out custom stats, you decrease the pleasure of player to be different from others and to be able to build his character the way he wants it. Which is not good thing imho.
About "being screwed if you not properly distribute stats points", well, it is not like you will play D3 only with 1 Barbarian character for example. Ppl will try different builds and will take different approaches to how to beat the game or to play certain class. I dont see a problem with making a new character just to try something new.
I should give you a thumbs up for the nice attempt to divert my sayings here, and almost everything regarding d2 aspects you've mentioned according to your own characters/gameplay are either false or lies made to make your point across, which I still didn't quite understand, whatever that was. There is no hate here, only depression towards the inevitable modernization Diablo has to go through, as well as other games which I will not bother mentioning now, having the endless list in memory..
But all the same for me, as prattle like this from people like you only makes me smile from time to time.
You've earned it, nonetheless-> a thumbs up!
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] It's not death you should be afraid of.. it's life.
"World domination is easy- Comedy is hard" ~Mandy~
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature. <- Just for you, Chaos, and just because it's true.
I have always found stat allocation to be the driest form of customization. It will hardly make or break the game either way. I cant imagine anyone being captivated by the stats menu, it's incomprehensible. It's such a mundane system. It will no doubt be improved upon.
My preference is in the order you stated them. I would imagine it is that way for most (and would be an excellent poll in my opinion *nudges ferret*). I believe there will be a way to readily change your stats, whether it be items or stats or something we have yet to see. So stats will still be an aspect of customization, but through other means.
I like you Doppel, Azylium and Ferret (even though Doppel doesn't [like his arguments :P]), because all three of you have valid and well-reasoned arguments. As I read through the first few pages, I was considering the points you made in the last two pages, and was just about to post them when I finally stumbled on them.
Auto-stats or no, in the end it all comes down to what Diablo is all about. In other, more traditional, RPG's, stats are more important and influence everything from damage through crit chance to how well you communicate with NPC's and the deals you get at stores. Items in those games are far less important and fairly generic. Monsters are also not as important and fighting is a lot less frequent and involved (ITO skill use, dodging projectiles, aiming for weak spots, target priority) etc.
Diablo is an Action-RPG, which means that the items and combat are a far greater part of the game. As Ferret has mentioned, improving stats necessitates and implies weakening items and monsters. I would love to see stats mean more in Diablo, but it's just not feasible without turning it into a different kind of RPG.
I'm also convinced that Blizzard considered everything discussed in this thread, and came to a similar conclusion. I think the problem is that they don't have the time to come and explain their logic to their fans in excrutiating detail, so some of us end up thinking that they haven't considered all the facts. Before replying with something like "you can't be sure of that" or whatever, consider that it basically comes down to who we're talking about and what they've done in the past, like so many others have said. I guess you could call it faith.
I'm also convinced that Blizzard considered everything discussed in this thread, and came to a similar conclusion. I think the problem is that they don't have the time to come and explain their logic to their fans in excrutiating detail, so some of us end up thinking that they haven't considered all the facts. Before replying with something like "you can't be sure of that" or whatever, consider that it basically comes down to who we're talking about and what they've done in the past, like so many others have said. I guess you could call it faith.
This is something I think more people need to think about. Blizzard is obviously going through a painstaking process of trying to determine what systems should come back and how to improve ones that do....with the way people are talking you would swear Blizzard was the biggest group of incompetent morons on the planet and have never made a good game.
This is something I think more people need to think about. Blizzard is obviously going through a painstaking process of trying to determine what systems should come back and how to improve ones that do....with the way people are talking you would swear Blizzard was the biggest group of incompetent morons on the planet and have never made a good game.
Couldn't agree more.
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"A wizard is never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early.
He arrives precisely when he means to."
"Losers always whine about their best, winners go home and Fvck the prom queen."
I personally would like a stat system in D3, not like the one in D2 because that was horrible. Took me some time to understand that all VIT was most of the times the best option and therefore had several highlevel characters that really was noway close as good as they could be.
Okay back to D3, the way they have done the stats in D3 (in the demo i presume, check link at bottom) looks like thay have more to offer. For instance DEX gives +x% Critical Strike Chance, +x% Dodge Chance and most importantly "Higher Dexterity lowers chance you will be interrupted by [when?] getting hit". And the rest of the stats all have these wonderful things to them, so all stats are good for every character making it viable to have a stat system in D3 as long it is balanced out correctly.
Doppelganger gave one example that I kinda liked, "what about making the effectiveness of each spend point in a stat diminish the more points you have in that respective stat?".
There is also the possibility that each time you level up you gain less stat points like 1 for each level or maybe even only one per every five levels.
Must also say that I like the idea with auto-stats too, as has been said before that then you can "easily" change your gear and and have a totally different and still good character.
Think more in the line of godly rare amulets, godly blue circlets, those kind of items. Most of the time a simple unique would still outclass them if they aren't truly unbelievably godly, which is a real shame. And for some item types no rare or blue could ever outclass a unique, let alone a rune-word (many weapon types).
Ever for example found a rare armor that could rival many of the medium uniques? If it was possible for rares and magical and crafted items to really outclass each and any runeword and unique, then truly godly end gear would have had so much more variance, instead of the usual Enigma, Grief, etc,... (it would differentiate the true epic from the pebs)
It wasnt always about being unbelievably godly for those circs and amus. They just had to have the right stats which was usually faster cast rate....which helps out many characters with faster tele ...most of those items arent near as good as COA or even shako and some rune words...but in many cases those items didnt give the benefits needed for certain builds.
As for wepons....I think there were some really ridiclous rare zerker axes going around that were pretty much better then EBOTDZ and even a perf EDC but they were extremely rare....and if you found one it might of been duped and still cost an ungodly amount...but this is before the second set of 1.10 runewords were introduced....
For Lightning Sorceresses, at least, I know that (including myself) many prefer a rare circlet with +2 to Sorceress skills, with high res, FCR, STR, and any other attributes. That's way better than a Shako, any experienced sorce player would tell you
Complexity is an amazing creature: Take a look at this promo for Heavy Rain. At first it seems like the promised land -- until you see the little "click X now" buttons appear on screen. Then all of a sudden it looks a lot more like that 1983 coin-op arcade Dragon's Lair.
I worried that the transition to 3D would cost the game, but I have some faith. The Wall of Zombies spell, Mirror Image spell and Time Bomb spell are beautiful works! But there's something else to consider, and I don't mean pulse-pounding pacing: Have you played Age of Conan?
One of their worst enemies was complexity: It was much too difficult for the team to engineer the player's timeline of experiences. They attempt to sell loot on a time-card basis (see Perfect World for a better business model) but lost control of loot table organization.
But enough background, on to the meat of the matter: Auto-Assigning Stats. I come down completely in favor of this, and here is why: Stats become a more detailed version of the player's "level".
Instead of a sword needing a level-12 player, it needs a level-12 Barbarian or level-20 Wizard. It gives meaning to the choice of Barbarian or Wizard -- a transfer of decision making, not a removal. And the level of information is presented directly to the player, but more importantly it is also presented directly to the designers. They will have it available at the first level, and so less errors due to head explosion.
I hope that it helps design loot drops, so that creatures can use their loot.
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My five-point rating system: Yay, Kay, Meh, Erm, Gleh
For Lightning Sorceresses, at least, I know that (including myself) many prefer a rare circlet with +2 to Sorceress skills, with high res, FCR, STR, and any other attributes. That's way better than a Shako, any experienced sorce player would tell you
Lol yup......But you should be using griffons..........
First time at WoW I was like WTF I can't place any stat points? Later on I got used to it and now I see it is not relevant at all. There are a lot of "stat" choices you can make with gems, talents and gear.. another guy can have 9000hp and the next guy has 14000hp because he has different type of items, gems and talents.
Lol yup......But you should be using griffons..........
It really depends on the rarity of the attribute combination that the rare circlet can give you. Some can be as godly as **** and easily own any griffon.
Quote from "AngleWyrm" »
Complexity is an amazing creature: Take a look at this promo for Heavy Rain. At first it seems like the promised land -- until you see the little "click X now" buttons appear on screen. Then all of a sudden it looks a lot more like that 1983 coin-op arcade laser-disc cartoon Dragon's Lair.
I worried that the transition to 3D would cost the game, but I have some faith. The Wall of Zombies spell, Mirror Image spell and Time Bomb spell are beautiful works! But there's something else to consider, and I don't mean pulse-pounding pacing: Have you played Age of Conan?
One of their worst enemies was complexity: It was much too difficult for the team to engineer the player's timeline of experiences. They attempt to sell loot on a time-card basis (see Perfect World for a better business model) but lost control of loot table organization.
But enough background, on to the meat of the matter: Auto-Assigning Stats. I come down completely in favor of this, and here is why: Stats become a more detailed version of the player's "level".
Instead of a sword needing a level-12 player, it needs a level-12 Barbarian or level-20 Wizard. It gives meaning to the choice of Barbarian or Wizard -- a transfer of decision making, not a removal. And the level of information is presented directly to the player, but more importantly it is also presented directly to the designers. They will have it available at the first level, and so less errors due to head explosion.
I hope that it helps design loot drops, so that creatures can use their loot.
Complete agreement here. Thumbs up.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] It's not death you should be afraid of.. it's life.
"World domination is easy- Comedy is hard" ~Mandy~
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature. <- Just for you, Chaos, and just because it's true.
k im just coming into this discussion and ignoring previous posts... but
A forum member by the name of Pyramid16 stated, "I think a good way for auto stats is build them up depending on what you do with your character. For example if you spend a lot of time on low health, vitality goes up or stamina increase from running a lot."
that is the worst fucking idea i have heard in a long time... i want to slap the person who suggested that
I dont understand y u would take stats away.... If u can go and redo ur stats whats the point in making them auto???? its not just a little custimizatoin. Its alot. in diablo II u had to figure out how to get ur stats right for a certain build Thus experience makes u better... its like they are trying to make the game easy????? easy doesnt mean fun challenges are fun Say ive been playing diablo III for 2 months and im lvl 60 so if sum 1 that never played diablo comes and gets to lvl 60 same char cass he has exact same stats Diablo 2 was about Items+stats+skills. now its just skills and items.. thus u cannot make a Barbarian with Huge amounts of Life or huge amounts of strength. Si basically u will have the same life and str as every other char ... well unless ur items change it Yes skill runes Are asome but STAT POINTs are asome 2 u say that it makes the fast pace of diablo keep going cause u dont have to assign ur stats... what about skills u still gota stop to assign skills... i mean its not that hard to killl everything around u then assign ur points I know its ur game im just asking these questoins..I sure there will be no str and dex req for items in diablo 3 Cause it would be pointless Choosing ur stats is what made diablo2 diablo 2 Yeah runes will make peoples skills look diffrent but will it really change the way they approach a mob? I can go on and on but yeah just felt like writing this..
No it don't "make u better". If learning how many Str points to put there is going to make you better by allowing you to wear gear, than that's great. Next you can learn how to tie your own shoelaces. On the other hand, you can't learn how to tie your shoelaces by googling for it. And I can already tell you to put 151 Str points so you don't even have to google. Use that information wisely, now you're pro.
Quote from "David907" »
Choosing ur stats is what made diablo2 diablo 2 Yeah runes will make peoples skills look diffrent but will it really change the way they approach a mob?
I don't know what that means, but I assume you are implying that you won't be able to choose your stats. And you will be able. All your stats will come from your gear, so you will still be able to customize everything.
What's next? Auto-Drops from boss monsters like in WoW?
It's not death you should be afraid of.. it's life.
"World domination is easy- Comedy is hard" ~Mandy~
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature. <- Just for you, Chaos, and just because it's true.
Well put.....I dont get why people think custom stats in D2 were custom at all....if u didnt build ur stats right u were screwed for the most part....well maybe not screwed but u sure as hell werent as effective overall
I should give you a thumbs up for the nice attempt to divert my sayings here, and almost everything regarding d2 aspects you've mentioned according to your own characters/gameplay are either false or lies made to make your point across, which I still didn't quite understand, whatever that was. There is no hate here, only depression towards the inevitable modernization Diablo has to go through, as well as other games which I will not bother mentioning now, having the endless list in memory..
But all the same for me, as prattle like this from people like you only makes me smile from time to time.
You've earned it, nonetheless-> a thumbs up!
It's not death you should be afraid of.. it's life.
"World domination is easy- Comedy is hard" ~Mandy~
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature. <- Just for you, Chaos, and just because it's true.
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
Auto-stats or no, in the end it all comes down to what Diablo is all about. In other, more traditional, RPG's, stats are more important and influence everything from damage through crit chance to how well you communicate with NPC's and the deals you get at stores. Items in those games are far less important and fairly generic. Monsters are also not as important and fighting is a lot less frequent and involved (ITO skill use, dodging projectiles, aiming for weak spots, target priority) etc.
Diablo is an Action-RPG, which means that the items and combat are a far greater part of the game. As Ferret has mentioned, improving stats necessitates and implies weakening items and monsters. I would love to see stats mean more in Diablo, but it's just not feasible without turning it into a different kind of RPG.
I'm also convinced that Blizzard considered everything discussed in this thread, and came to a similar conclusion. I think the problem is that they don't have the time to come and explain their logic to their fans in excrutiating detail, so some of us end up thinking that they haven't considered all the facts. Before replying with something like "you can't be sure of that" or whatever, consider that it basically comes down to who we're talking about and what they've done in the past, like so many others have said. I guess you could call it faith.
This is something I think more people need to think about. Blizzard is obviously going through a painstaking process of trying to determine what systems should come back and how to improve ones that do....with the way people are talking you would swear Blizzard was the biggest group of incompetent morons on the planet and have never made a good game.
Couldn't agree more.
"Losers always whine about their best, winners go home and Fvck the prom queen."
I personally would like a stat system in D3, not like the one in D2 because that was horrible. Took me some time to understand that all VIT was most of the times the best option and therefore had several highlevel characters that really was noway close as good as they could be.
Okay back to D3, the way they have done the stats in D3 (in the demo i presume, check link at bottom) looks like thay have more to offer. For instance DEX gives +x% Critical Strike Chance, +x% Dodge Chance and most importantly "Higher Dexterity lowers chance you will be interrupted by [when?] getting hit". And the rest of the stats all have these wonderful things to them, so all stats are good for every character making it viable to have a stat system in D3 as long it is balanced out correctly.
Doppelganger gave one example that I kinda liked, "what about making the effectiveness of each spend point in a stat diminish the more points you have in that respective stat?".
There is also the possibility that each time you level up you gain less stat points like 1 for each level or maybe even only one per every five levels.
Must also say that I like the idea with auto-stats too, as has been said before that then you can "easily" change your gear and and have a totally different and still good character.
Well that is my 2 cents.
And here is the link: http://www.diablowiki.net/Attributes
It wasnt always about being unbelievably godly for those circs and amus. They just had to have the right stats which was usually faster cast rate....which helps out many characters with faster tele ...most of those items arent near as good as COA or even shako and some rune words...but in many cases those items didnt give the benefits needed for certain builds.
As for wepons....I think there were some really ridiclous rare zerker axes going around that were pretty much better then EBOTDZ and even a perf EDC but they were extremely rare....and if you found one it might of been duped and still cost an ungodly amount...but this is before the second set of 1.10 runewords were introduced....
I worried that the transition to 3D would cost the game, but I have some faith. The Wall of Zombies spell, Mirror Image spell and Time Bomb spell are beautiful works! But there's something else to consider, and I don't mean pulse-pounding pacing: Have you played Age of Conan?
One of their worst enemies was complexity: It was much too difficult for the team to engineer the player's timeline of experiences. They attempt to sell loot on a time-card basis (see Perfect World for a better business model) but lost control of loot table organization.
But enough background, on to the meat of the matter: Auto-Assigning Stats. I come down completely in favor of this, and here is why: Stats become a more detailed version of the player's "level".
Instead of a sword needing a level-12 player, it needs a level-12 Barbarian or level-20 Wizard. It gives meaning to the choice of Barbarian or Wizard -- a transfer of decision making, not a removal. And the level of information is presented directly to the player, but more importantly it is also presented directly to the designers. They will have it available at the first level, and so less errors due to head explosion.
I hope that it helps design loot drops, so that creatures can use their loot.
Lol yup......But you should be using griffons..........
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
It really depends on the rarity of the attribute combination that the rare circlet can give you. Some can be as godly as **** and easily own any griffon.
Complete agreement here. Thumbs up.
It's not death you should be afraid of.. it's life.
"World domination is easy- Comedy is hard" ~Mandy~
98% of the teenage population does or has tried smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature. <- Just for you, Chaos, and just because it's true.
that is the worst fucking idea i have heard in a long time... i want to slap the person who suggested that
100% Agreed. We don't need Oblivion (even though it was a fun game) style leveling.
_Minus the physical violence_;) I'm more of a passivist.
"Losers always whine about their best, winners go home and Fvck the prom queen."
I don't know what that means, but I assume you are implying that you won't be able to choose your stats. And you will be able. All your stats will come from your gear, so you will still be able to customize everything.