Bashiok talked more details of Diablo III blood and corpse management and performance tweaks with the Physics engine.
Bashiok: First, touching on the corpse fade timers as they stand, the tech to have them last longer has been in for a while. Pretty much how it's working is that there's an allowed number of physics "actors" that are allowed to remain at a time. These actors could be corpses, but they can also be pieces of destroyed tables, or railings, etc. anything that relies on physics. These are corpses and destructables generally. As you 'create' physics actors the oldest ones disappear. So as you're fighting there are always a number of actors remaining in the world, and it works out pretty well. Obviously how many of them can remain at one time will come down to final performance tweaking, but right now I believe it's around twenty.
On to blood and fading; the "cost" of decals, which include the blood stains, are fairly high. Cost being the relative strain put on the machine running the game. Decals account for blood, but they also account for quite a few other effects, most of which haven't yet been revealed. In the potential case of a full party creating these decals, blood flowing from creatures, skills that create them, as well as monsters themselves using skills that create them (Wretched vomiting all over the place is a good example), there is the potential to have a large number of decals on screen at any one time. So again, it's going to come down to final performance tweaks as to how many of them will remain on screen and for how long.
there shouldnt be any skills like that. the necromancer was the one character that needed the corpses the most, and he wont be around. I'm guessing the barbarian skills that also needed it wont be implemented either.
But I could see a skill set like the Druid's vines still working here. Something that could consume the corpses and remove those physics items faster would still be possible.
whats the point in having physics on the bodies if it has to be disabled after the enemy is dead?
having them stay like that waiting to use a certain skill to remove its physics could very much make the game impossible to play in middle-class computers. The direction they're taking now with a certain amount of corpses on the screen that despawns after we move out of the screen sounds best so far.
Since Diablo 3 isn't going to be release for another year or so, it should be safe to say that blizzard should dedicate a CPU core (since dual core is the standard now-days) to handle the decals and bodies then they also should take advantage of Nvidia's graphic cards physic capabilities which apparently also work with ATI cards.
the corpses during pve battles sound fine i dont expect there will be any problem with those dissapearing too quickly but im concerned about the blood in a pve situation fighting a boss with 6 players there.. i hope they are able to come to something that will help keep the blood flowing for a good lil bit. should be good looking in pvp i dont see a problem there.
One problem I see, is that Ironlore did such a great job with Titan Quest. Ragdoll Physics, great graphics, and even made shadows work out really good. What is making it so much harder to do for Blizzard?
I'd say make the most use out of the corpse limitation. As each corpse fades, Blizzard should create a neat effect for each type of monster as it fades away. Probably will cost some performance for some people, but atleast make it an option to toggle on or off, maybe a slider. Actually, Blizzard has the fortune to optimize a game to it's best, I'm sure they could get the cool fade effects of a corpse vanishing with little performance hit if they wanted to.
I don't really see the point of being able to beat the crap out of a corpse... that only makes it more fun for sadistic people.
But I'm all for seeing the aftermath of a battle and I think it's better if the aftermath of a battle is something you cant mess with. something dies, it stays dead there on that spot and cant be moved.
personally I think that having 100 bodies that stay where they dropped dead makes for a much more satisfying gameplay than being able to beat up 20 corpses like a sadistic looser.
personally I think that having 100 bodies that stay where they dropped dead makes for a much more satisfying gameplay than being able to beat up 20 corpses like a sadistic looser.
I don't remember ever seeing 100 corpses in one place in D2. I really don't see how is 20 too little. I don't imagine there would ever be more than like, 30. If it's just a big deal, they should implement an option to decrease/increase the number. But really, who cares about the gore? It's an RPG, it's about fun and mechanics... And it looks like no one is concerned about the mechanics, everyone just panics about it not having enough gore or whatever. Why doesn't anyone panic over the fact that there might not be enough playable content in D3?
I don't remember ever seeing 100 corpses in one place in D2. I really don't see how is 20 too little. I don't imagine there would ever be more than like, 30. If it's just a big deal, they should implement an option to decrease/increase the number. But really, who cares about the gore? It's an RPG, it's about fun and mechanics... And it looks like no one is concerned about the mechanics, everyone just panics about it not having enough gore or whatever. Why doesn't anyone panic over the fact that there might not be enough playable content in D3?
if there wasnt the problem with the physics there wouldnt be a corpse issue. But since the corpses arent pinned on the ground, are in complete 3D and will keep moving physically correct if you keep bashing them does create a performance issue.
None of the games that uses physics has so many enemies showing at once. Think of the amount of ghouls in the demo video. It would be literally impossible for that game to run on a middle-class pc. Thats the main reason why Crysis was such a failure. None bothered buying it cause it would be unplayable on their system.
Blizzard isnt going to make the same mistake. All of their games so far ran smooth on middle-class computers and thats something they're going to keep doing.
Gore is a pretty vital part in the Diablo universe. But it isnt measured in the amount of corpses on the floor. I never saw a bloodier Diablo game so far, not even something similar to Diablo. The game is evolving and thank god its becoming something better.
i think these animations you're suggesting would eat up just as much performance as having the corpses around. We're talking about dozens of enemies/corpses at the same time.
What I'd like to kow is, will this be customizable on each individual pc? For example, will I be able to see 30 or 40 actors in Singleplayer if my computer hardware allows it? Or will the limit be set for all players?
Quote from "Dimebog" »
Why doesn't anyone panic over the fact that there might not be enough playable content in D3?
I never thought about that. Why doesn't people anyway?
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
There is however a problem. Lets say one monster/corpse dies a few seconds before the other. When the barbarian uses siesmic slam on a third mob, he hits both the corpses - and - one flys up in the air becouse of the physics, while the other remains still - already being a static mesh. If they can find a way around this sort of stuff... then ok. It can definetly be done, but would require some fine tuning.
Maybe there's a way so that when a character stays in the frame of the corpse, that the corpse can still be affected by the physics and whatnot. Then when the character leaves the frame, they become a static mesh.
As for the physics of the tables/chairs/etc... you could just have it to where you can break them down more after you already break them and after a while, they just break down into nothing. Maybe after 2 hits they just dissipate.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Arrogance, despised by some, considered genius by others.
When the corpses disappear, vanish, or fade away, atleast give some kind of effects such as a certain amount of red orbs that spiral out of their body as they vanish, for instance, in Final Fantasy X, every enemy that was killed left a number of orbs flying up depending on how powerful the creature was. I'd find it addicting to get a nice confetti of orbs floating up from the corpse while killing the other corpses. It would keep the action seamless. They could go beyond and vary the effects among creatures. Since the havoc engine limits a certain amount of corpses, might as well make the best out of it and make vanishing corpses something special or focused on.
When the corpses disappear, vanish, or fade away, atleast give some kind of effects such as a certain amount of red orbs that spiral out of their body as they vanish
I think it'd be cooler if the bodies rapidly decomposed or turned into a black smoky material that fades.
I like how the Assault Beast disappears though.
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Thanks, Lyquid
Source: Battle.net
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having them stay like that waiting to use a certain skill to remove its physics could very much make the game impossible to play in middle-class computers. The direction they're taking now with a certain amount of corpses on the screen that despawns after we move out of the screen sounds best so far.
Come on Blizzard... You can do it!!
But I'm all for seeing the aftermath of a battle and I think it's better if the aftermath of a battle is something you cant mess with. something dies, it stays dead there on that spot and cant be moved.
personally I think that having 100 bodies that stay where they dropped dead makes for a much more satisfying gameplay than being able to beat up 20 corpses like a sadistic looser.
if there wasnt the problem with the physics there wouldnt be a corpse issue. But since the corpses arent pinned on the ground, are in complete 3D and will keep moving physically correct if you keep bashing them does create a performance issue.
None of the games that uses physics has so many enemies showing at once. Think of the amount of ghouls in the demo video. It would be literally impossible for that game to run on a middle-class pc. Thats the main reason why Crysis was such a failure. None bothered buying it cause it would be unplayable on their system.
Blizzard isnt going to make the same mistake. All of their games so far ran smooth on middle-class computers and thats something they're going to keep doing.
Gore is a pretty vital part in the Diablo universe. But it isnt measured in the amount of corpses on the floor. I never saw a bloodier Diablo game so far, not even something similar to Diablo. The game is evolving and thank god its becoming something better.
I never thought about that. Why doesn't people anyway?
Maybe there's a way so that when a character stays in the frame of the corpse, that the corpse can still be affected by the physics and whatnot. Then when the character leaves the frame, they become a static mesh.
As for the physics of the tables/chairs/etc... you could just have it to where you can break them down more after you already break them and after a while, they just break down into nothing. Maybe after 2 hits they just dissipate.
Arrogance, despised by some, considered genius by others.
I think it'd be cooler if the bodies rapidly decomposed or turned into a black smoky material that fades.
I like how the Assault Beast disappears though.