Yeah Necronergal, I get what your hinting at, which was actually quite successfully (designed) and implemented in Oblivion. They really made a system that reflects the player's fighting style by accordingly raising his stats. It is logical however who can really predict if it would be good in a D3 system/game. We would really have to get serious and analyze the pros and cons on it.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Diablo 3, Hottest shit to happen to 21st Century Entertainment since Georges "Rush" St-Pierre.______________ --------~~Mattheo's Quote of the day~~---------
----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums -------- Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
Here's another one, Blizzard doesn't NEED to make this game. (they obviously aren't capable) :cool: Just saying.
Hmm, works well.
Hey if you can manage to go off and call people idiots at will...
I think I'm entitled to speak as I usually do- and I like to use the word fuck- it's not just with the posts i've made in response to you It's in most of em.
I'm surprised that you study this stuff and are still so negative about the aspects of the game being shared especially considering that it's in the development stage. I don't study this shit and I still have a more open mind in terms of comparison and appreciation...
i don't see how i deserved to be talked to like this. well, with your argumentation about rpg wolfenstein has elements of roleplaying. and i see that. but that doesn't get us far, does it? if you want to make such a comparison then use Caillois' term "mimicry", that fits perfectly and is a part of PLAY-theory (paidia), not GAME-theory (ludus). so it doesn't have a lot to do with the mechanics, which are based on ludic elements.
And which mechanics are you talking about? the similarity of pressing the right mouse button and doing a combination of pressing L1 + Triangle + Triangle? or rotating the analogue stick counterclockwise? that you smash lots of enemies and have some skills or spells at your disposal, HP and mana, well that's not much of a common ground. lots of games have these features. and the scale and execution MAKES the difference.
Man, I study this stuff. I feel offended to be treated like a stupid kid. and all of those F-words are not necessary.
The mechanics that are similar are the basic facts that they are games that involve the use of a character to combat several enemies through the use of a combination of skills and accquired items. Again the execution is different- but that does not stop people from saying - hey God of War was an awesome game- perhaps we can draw some coolness from it when we're looking to develop a new game!
Moreover for someone who knows so much...you sure as hell don't like to read...I mentioned before and so have others that this comparison was already made by the developers themselves at some point after its announcement...Guess blizzard has no clue about paidia and ludus then eh?
You should also know that game influence travels across genres like wildfire...Blizzard themselves have taken things from RPG and dumped them into RTS (WCIII) and eventually back into an MMORPG. You don't need to over analyze things via game-theory vs play-theory and shit.
Maybe take the comparisons drawn between things just THAT likely and not THAT literally? Perhaps then you won't come off as narrow minded as you do...and maybe you might even learn to extrapolate what people mean instead of over analyzing.
And the language I use is not just in the posts I make in response to you- sorry you're not that special...
Here's another one, Blizzard doesn't NEED to make this game. (they obviously aren't capable) :cool: Just saying.
Hmm, works well.
WoW. Talk about High Horse. Telling the developers of the franchise that they're not capable. Have you bothered to see Blizzard's track record? I'm sorry but I think every game they've released has been a massive success both through sales and community reception...
Just be glad they're sharing info your highness...things are still developing...maybe if you paid some attention and kept an open mind you might learn something about GAME DEVELOPMENT from people that have been doing it longer than you have...
If you take the stance that by allowing auto stat distribution, "bad" or "stupid" builds are eliminated, it doesn't make a valid point, and here is why.
In a system where choice is allowed in any form, regardless whether those choices involve stats, skills, items, or anything else, eventually "ANYTHING" thats customizable, an "uber" system will follow.
Essentially my point is this, no matter what the developers choose to allow us to customize, eventually the best options will be found, and everyone will use that setup.
So, if we can't customize our stats (abilities), and we will be able to customize our skills, eventually the best setup for those skills will be released and everyone will start working towards them.
In conclusion, any choice will eventually lead to players seeking the "uber" setup. And if thats the case, either you must not allow any customization (Uberlame), or why not just let players screw up their characters however they want.
You've got some good points there. No matter how they set up stat points, skill points, and runes, and any combination of them, there will be a few good ways, and a few bad ways. And probably a few terrible ways and a few uber ways. So, while in D2 you can become great through stats, in D3 you will become great through skillpoints and playstyle. The way i see it, they haven't sacrificed anything, they've only shifted peoples' focus from stats to skills. Which, to me, is a good thing.
From what i've seen from playing WoW though, a lot of times there is no "best" way. there is only a best way for speciffic playstyles. So hopefully they will balance the different character builds so that the good builds are equal in a way, that way, no single uber build will dominate the game. For instance, in WoW whenver a ridiculously powerful combo or build is found by a player, Blizzard finds a way to nerf it, not to take away power but to restore the balance of power while keeping the game fun for people who don't enjoy the playstyle requitred for that certain build.
This is getting to complicated, but overall what i'm saying is i agree, and i have trust in Blizzards' ability to keep enough customization to please people, but also allow more skillful/knowledgable players to have the advantage they deserve through playstyle rather than through character build.
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Stay.
You don't always know where you stand,
'Till you know that you won't run away.
There's something inside me that feels...
Like breathing in sulfur.
The name was from before there even was speak of a Diablo 3. You can't be fan of something that doesn't exist (yet).
We are fans of the Diablo franchise, you sir are a fan of Blizzard and will do nothing more then throw around your loyalty anyway you can.
Well enjoy the old diablos we will enjoy the new one. We won't miss whiners like you.
You've got some good points there. No matter how they set up stat points, skill points, and runes, and any combination of them, there will be a few good ways, and a few bad ways. And probably a few terrible ways and a few uber ways. So, while in D2 you can become great through stats, in D3 you will become great through skillpoints and playstyle. The way i see it, they haven't sacrificed anything, they've only shifted peoples' focus from stats to skills. Which, to me, is a good thing.
From what i've seen from playing WoW though, a lot of times there is no "best" way. there is only a best way for speciffic playstyles. So hopefully they will balance the different character builds so that the good builds are equal in a way, that way, no single uber build will dominate the game. For instance, in WoW whenver a ridiculously powerful combo or build is found by a player, Blizzard finds a way to nerf it, not to take away power but to restore the balance of power while keeping the game fun for people who don't enjoy the playstyle requitred for that certain build.
This is getting to complicated, but overall what i'm saying is i agree, and i have trust in Blizzards' ability to keep enough customization to please people, but also allow more skillful/knowledgable players to have the advantage they deserve through playstyle rather than through character build.
This is a completely agreeable post. Blizzard has made plenty of awsome games in the past, and we can all trust as Blizzard fans that they shouldn't dissapoint on one of their record breaking franchises. Please, it's Diablo; do you think that they would stuff some awful crud down our throats after such a long wait for a third game? So what if they removed one of the features that made Diablo 2, in my own opinion, not as good as it could be. I trust that this decision was made for balancing and playability issues, and I'll be damned if something like this could ruin this kind of game from a developer that's had me by the neck for so long with their incredible games.
And I also agree with your theory of incorporating, another one of their success World of Warcraft and it's playability and balancing issues into Diablo 3. I'd be shocked if this wasn't the reason/cause for creating auto stats.
There also seems to be discussion about how there will always end up being the 'most uber' ways to play, choose skills, arrange stats etc. Sadly it will also happen with Diablo 3 eventually, atleast to some extent. But I think that the developers are doing very fine job at making it more skill oriented and so on, so things are looking good. And I personally have complete trust in that the game will be great, the developers are really taking their time to figure things out and ensure that, which already shows.
The only real reason why there were 'most uber' builds, was because each skill point could be put up to 20, and there were only a couple of skills per character actually worth using.
With the more skill-centric system, and runes having a big effect on gameplay, it will no longer be a mathematical determination on who wins, or luck of if you choose the right place to frozen orb, but how well you know the build you have made, and how to best use the skills (and rune mod's) to your advantage
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i thought it was just stat points.
--------~~Mattheo's Quote of the day~~---------
----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums --------
Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
Hey if you can manage to go off and call people idiots at will...
I think I'm entitled to speak as I usually do- and I like to use the word fuck- it's not just with the posts i've made in response to you It's in most of em.
I'm surprised that you study this stuff and are still so negative about the aspects of the game being shared especially considering that it's in the development stage. I don't study this shit and I still have a more open mind in terms of comparison and appreciation...
The mechanics that are similar are the basic facts that they are games that involve the use of a character to combat several enemies through the use of a combination of skills and accquired items. Again the execution is different- but that does not stop people from saying - hey God of War was an awesome game- perhaps we can draw some coolness from it when we're looking to develop a new game!
Moreover for someone who knows so much...you sure as hell don't like to read...I mentioned before and so have others that this comparison was already made by the developers themselves at some point after its announcement...Guess blizzard has no clue about paidia and ludus then eh?
You should also know that game influence travels across genres like wildfire...Blizzard themselves have taken things from RPG and dumped them into RTS (WCIII) and eventually back into an MMORPG. You don't need to over analyze things via game-theory vs play-theory and shit.
Maybe take the comparisons drawn between things just THAT likely and not THAT literally? Perhaps then you won't come off as narrow minded as you do...and maybe you might even learn to extrapolate what people mean instead of over analyzing.
And the language I use is not just in the posts I make in response to you- sorry you're not that special...
WoW. Talk about High Horse. Telling the developers of the franchise that they're not capable. Have you bothered to see Blizzard's track record? I'm sorry but I think every game they've released has been a massive success both through sales and community reception...
Just be glad they're sharing info your highness...things are still developing...maybe if you paid some attention and kept an open mind you might learn something about GAME DEVELOPMENT from people that have been doing it longer than you have...
You've got some good points there. No matter how they set up stat points, skill points, and runes, and any combination of them, there will be a few good ways, and a few bad ways. And probably a few terrible ways and a few uber ways. So, while in D2 you can become great through stats, in D3 you will become great through skillpoints and playstyle. The way i see it, they haven't sacrificed anything, they've only shifted peoples' focus from stats to skills. Which, to me, is a good thing.
From what i've seen from playing WoW though, a lot of times there is no "best" way. there is only a best way for speciffic playstyles. So hopefully they will balance the different character builds so that the good builds are equal in a way, that way, no single uber build will dominate the game. For instance, in WoW whenver a ridiculously powerful combo or build is found by a player, Blizzard finds a way to nerf it, not to take away power but to restore the balance of power while keeping the game fun for people who don't enjoy the playstyle requitred for that certain build.
This is getting to complicated, but overall what i'm saying is i agree, and i have trust in Blizzards' ability to keep enough customization to please people, but also allow more skillful/knowledgable players to have the advantage they deserve through playstyle rather than through character build.
You don't always know where you stand,
'Till you know that you won't run away.
There's something inside me that feels...
Like breathing in sulfur.
RIP: Demon Hunter: lvl 50 | Barb: lvl 60 (plvl 5) | Monk: lvl12 & lvl70 (plvl 200)
This is a completely agreeable post. Blizzard has made plenty of awsome games in the past, and we can all trust as Blizzard fans that they shouldn't dissapoint on one of their record breaking franchises. Please, it's Diablo; do you think that they would stuff some awful crud down our throats after such a long wait for a third game? So what if they removed one of the features that made Diablo 2, in my own opinion, not as good as it could be. I trust that this decision was made for balancing and playability issues, and I'll be damned if something like this could ruin this kind of game from a developer that's had me by the neck for so long with their incredible games.
And I also agree with your theory of incorporating, another one of their success World of Warcraft and it's playability and balancing issues into Diablo 3. I'd be shocked if this wasn't the reason/cause for creating auto stats.
Only because if you think about it most of the builds in Diablo 2 you ended up pumping most of your points into vitality anyways.
The only real reason why there were 'most uber' builds, was because each skill point could be put up to 20, and there were only a couple of skills per character actually worth using.
With the more skill-centric system, and runes having a big effect on gameplay, it will no longer be a mathematical determination on who wins, or luck of if you choose the right place to frozen orb, but how well you know the build you have made, and how to best use the skills (and rune mod's) to your advantage