That comparison was the very first one I've heard back in June from someone. Then they moved on to WoW. Games will always be compared to other games because players want to validate why they should spend money on something when they have something similar or could get a better game.
yeah... and people will still compare Diablo 3 to other existing games until its out. After that they'll have Diablo 3 as a reference
Tell that to Jay Wilson. When asked what games they looked at for inspiration or what games they were playing at the time- he mentioned God of War.
God of War is an RPG game and it has been used by the developers as a reference point to know where they stand in the market. It and games like Heavenly Sword have done wonders for the RPG world- given they may be forgotten in 10 years- they are still made waves...
Don't tell what to compare to and what not to without giving me a logical explanation why...
That's what most of you guys don't get out there. They aren't dumbing down the game as you so brilliantly put it...They are removing bad aspects of D1,D2 and recreating the same addictive features in more user friendly ways so that we can get to the fun without the hassle of going through unnecessary steps. It's called progress. If Blizz listened to most of the folks out here they would be making another D2 expansion and retweaking the same old game that we've all had enough of.
Stats were totally pointless, IN A D2 SETTING, meaning they could of had been usefull if implemented in say "a full fledged RPG like Baldur's Gate or Oblivion" where statistic greatly affect the player's capabilities. It just wasn't the case in D1 AND D2. And no, wearing equipment does not count as a usefull reason to have the stats feature either. And don't gimme that "oh but it's realistic to need STR to weild big weapons" crap... If these kind of games were build on real life there would be a million things that the player couldn't do.
Realism is basically implemented in the graphics engine and that's about enough. The rest is fantasy and make believe. Don't try to bog the game down with realism.
Stats in D2 were mainly considered as "restrictions" (equip necessity) and alot of the gear revolved around what you needed to get to where you must be. (+ to Strength Equip). And unless you had the optimum gear (mainly Runewords) that massivly boosted almost every aspect of the character, a casual player would find himself wearing gear not for efficiency or performance but by obligation. Ex: Oh I have to wear IK belt so that I can use this weapon. My merc must use this crap ass helm cause without it he can't use the kickass polearm that I got him. So this greatly limited customization since one was forced to wear specific gear. Now I'm not trying to say that players should be able to wear any gear without having to worry about character balance. For example, this helm has resist, however that one has life/mana leech. These kind of choices are good since they really balance out the player and not make him uber in every aspect. However being restricted simply by stats is totally pointless, since it has no balance value. The Barb will hate just as much as a sorc to add STR so he can use StormShield, but in the end, they can both wear it. So stats really don't get the job done. Then you add the factor that every build had "Set attributes" to max efficiency (mostly; 80 STR, 100 DEX, 300+VIT) and this made that a player would depend solely on items since he won't be boosting his STR/DEX to over 150+ without compromising his char in Hell mode. It really locks down choices and stops player creativity.
Stats customization= Bad Choice (unless in a completely revised system)
Item Bonuses = Tried and True.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Diablo 3, Hottest shit to happen to 21st Century Entertainment since Georges "Rush" St-Pierre.______________ --------~~Mattheo's Quote of the day~~---------
----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums -------- Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
Your example wont be that valid, because we had level restrictions before. So this time we'll have a chance to use gear to get to the stat needed before the higher level that we would need to use it with the base stats. Usually in Diablo 2 we had the stats needed to use, say Stormshield way before level 74. But we had to wait. Now if we manage to get stats off items we'll be able to use them right away.
I honestly can't say whether this is a good or bad decision, I've not seen the game in full action. Until then all we can do is speculate how this game isn't going to be Diablo 2 where character classes were all converted into "tried and true cookie cutter" versions like "Hammerdin" by stats and gear. Personally I like the ability to focus my skill points into certain areas that give me advantages for the characters fighting style I'm trying to create. But honestly, as long as it doesn't detract from the important aspects of an RPG's customization like appearance and abilities it shouldn't make a difference. But in the end we all won't know how this will work until we finally get our hands on it, so until then Diablo will kick every inch of ass that it's always kicked.
Your example wont be that valid, because we had level restrictions before. So this time we'll have a chance to use gear to get to the stat needed before the higher level that we would need to use it with the base stats. Usually in Diablo 3 we had the stats needed to use, say Stormshield way before level 74. But we had to wait. Now if we manage to get stats off items we'll be able to use them right away.
Which do you like more?
Actually your point is totally valid, because I didn't write about the level restriction but of course I was refering to an example withing a D2 setting that therefor would have such requirements, not on stats alone. I do agree with you that level requirements are equally important, however....
What I am trying to say is you really have to put yourself from a (d2 LoD) perspective where in the end, noone was really playing the game on a whim, they all knew what builds they wanted and excatly what would be needed to achieve it before even creating the char.
However if you are playing D3 for example, where you don't exactly know the premium items for your build and the perfect combo of stats, you will be leveling on what you think is a necessity. In the case of D2, if someone was to do that, he would 100% most definately end up with a char that either wouldn't be able to wear anything (too much into vit/dex/mana) not enough STR, or a char that would be able to wear everything he wanted (if he can find them) but he would get murdered in hell due to lack of VIT. He would be like, well shit..I just spent 200+ points into my barb's strength, expecting to need it, and it having a prominent effect on my char, when in fact it was a total waste of points and char cuz the 200 STR points do absolutely nothing apart from an insignificant damage boost..
So D2 was really really misleading people on that point and made it terribly easy to create an unsuccessful character.
So the only option really was to follow someone else's footsteps that knew the presets for the build. It really takes out the creativity from the game. Therefor agreeing with you on the point that, yes ,although we shouldn't be able to cheat our way into wearing items due to major stat boosts, but if Blizz implemented other restrictions than stats/level it would greatly help the system they are currently running.
All in all, I think we are actually on the same mindset, unless I understood wrong. We are more or less saying the same thing.:thumbsup:
And Psykosis, I really think the point you made definately supports what I'm saying.
I like the ability to focus my skill points into certain areas that give me advantages for the characters fighting style I'm trying to create
I think everyone has this kind of opinion when it comes to RPGs and character development. People love to be able to affect their chars with their decisions when they level up. But D2 was a perfect example of that NOT happening. It was prone to a "preset way" of building a char. Like I said, Stat Points didn't really affect the char all that much in most case and really helped in creating unsuccessful builds. Especially when you compare it to other good RPGs out there. A little disapointing. So unless they revamped the whole stats system for D3, I think auto stats would do just as good if not better than what D2 offered.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Diablo 3, Hottest shit to happen to 21st Century Entertainment since Georges "Rush" St-Pierre.______________ --------~~Mattheo's Quote of the day~~---------
----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums -------- Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
since when are god of war and heavenly sword rpgs? they are action adventures (lot of fighting and some puzzles) with MINOR rpg elements... they are not action-rpgs as diablo is.
Short sighted is short sighted...
Just because it doesn't SAY "R-P-FUCKING-G" doesn't mean you can't compare the two- and doesn't mean that it doesn't share elements with the genre. Every game that lets you play a character has some element of role playing...and fuck yes Heavenly Sword and God of War share alot of common ground and mechanics with Diablo. However, the scale and execution are different... learn to tell the difference.
All in all, I think we are actually on the same mindset, unless I understood wrong. We are more or less saying the same thing.:thumbsup:
From that last post i got that impression too. There should stil bel enough room for customization and with the possibilities of respecs we'll be able to see more "weird" specs and people dressed a different way trying those out. Copycats will still exist but they wont have half the fun we will
Every game that lets you play a character has some element of role playing
Sorry, but you're wrong. True, mostgames that put you in control of a protagonist have RPG elements; but that doesn't define them as RPG. Halo for instance puts in you control of Master Chief right, RPG? Please...
The lines between game genres are completely blurred making extremely entertaining gaming experiences; but still an actual RPG is an RPG. Everything else just has elements of this genre.
If you take the stance that by allowing auto stat distribution, "bad" or "stupid" builds are eliminated, it doesn't make a valid point, and here is why.
In a system where choice is allowed in any form, regardless whether those choices involve stats, skills, items, or anything else, eventually "ANYTHING" thats customizable, an "uber" system will follow.
Essentially my point is this, no matter what the developers choose to allow us to customize, eventually the best options will be found, and everyone will use that setup.
So, if we can't customize our stats (abilities), and we will be able to customize our skills, eventually the best setup for those skills will be released and everyone will start working towards them.
In conclusion, any choice will eventually lead to players seeking the "uber" setup. And if thats the case, either you must not allow any customization (Uberlame), or why not just let players screw up their characters however they want.
If you take the stance that by allowing auto stat distribution, "bad" or "stupid" builds are eliminated, it doesn't make a valid point, and here is why.
In a system where choice is allowed in any form, regardless whether those choices involve stats, skills, items, or anything else, eventually "ANYTHING" thats customizable, an "uber" system will follow.
Essentially my point is this, no matter what the developers choose to allow us to customize, eventually the best options will be found, and everyone will use that setup.
So, if we can't customize our stats (abilities), and we will be able to customize our skills, eventually the best setup for those skills will be released and everyone will start working towards them.
In conclusion, any choice will eventually lead to players seeking the "uber" setup. And if thats the case, either you must not allow any customization (Uberlame), or why not just let players screw up their characters however they want.
Because some players are not hardcore players and they don't want to reroll their character after beating act 3 and seeing their character sucks ?
Beside, you can't screw up your skills by changing the runes.
All the people trying to defend this, just,... wow.
I'm sorry but, how stupid can you be, seriously, i'm not trying to offend any of you its just that i can't wrap my head around the stupidity of it all.
I hope to dear god its just for demo's sake, thats all i have to say.
You don't HAVE to buy the game. :cool: Just saying.
What did I lost, the only thing that is lost here is you because you really have to be lost to end up on a fansite about diablo 3. You obviously don't like this game.
Since you are the only thing lost here and since I lost something, it looks like I lost you ?
i think the auto stat assigning can be a good thing. if they do it a certian way. instead of it just being a random stat. maybe they can have it where depending on what you do you can get stat points into that specific stat.
like lets say your a wizard. and you go and attack zombies with just physical attacks. then when you level up you get pints toward str and dex (and probably vitality cause duh) but none in willpower. cause you didnt use any spells during the level up.
or if your a wizard and you just use spells you just get points for vit and willpower but none for dex and str. cause you just used spells and no physical swinging.
you get where im going with this people?
it probably wasnt in demo cause it a demo and that logic is kinda hard to figure in a game i would think.
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yeah... and people will still compare Diablo 3 to other existing games until its out. After that they'll have Diablo 3 as a reference
Tell that to Jay Wilson. When asked what games they looked at for inspiration or what games they were playing at the time- he mentioned God of War.
God of War is an RPG game and it has been used by the developers as a reference point to know where they stand in the market. It and games like Heavenly Sword have done wonders for the RPG world- given they may be forgotten in 10 years- they are still made waves...
Don't tell what to compare to and what not to without giving me a logical explanation why...
~not going to buy a wow-ish diablo 3~
~this is the petition you're looking for~
Stats were totally pointless, IN A D2 SETTING, meaning they could of had been usefull if implemented in say "a full fledged RPG like Baldur's Gate or Oblivion" where statistic greatly affect the player's capabilities. It just wasn't the case in D1 AND D2. And no, wearing equipment does not count as a usefull reason to have the stats feature either. And don't gimme that "oh but it's realistic to need STR to weild big weapons" crap... If these kind of games were build on real life there would be a million things that the player couldn't do.
Realism is basically implemented in the graphics engine and that's about enough. The rest is fantasy and make believe. Don't try to bog the game down with realism.
Stats in D2 were mainly considered as "restrictions" (equip necessity) and alot of the gear revolved around what you needed to get to where you must be. (+ to Strength Equip). And unless you had the optimum gear (mainly Runewords) that massivly boosted almost every aspect of the character, a casual player would find himself wearing gear not for efficiency or performance but by obligation. Ex: Oh I have to wear IK belt so that I can use this weapon. My merc must use this crap ass helm cause without it he can't use the kickass polearm that I got him. So this greatly limited customization since one was forced to wear specific gear. Now I'm not trying to say that players should be able to wear any gear without having to worry about character balance. For example, this helm has resist, however that one has life/mana leech. These kind of choices are good since they really balance out the player and not make him uber in every aspect. However being restricted simply by stats is totally pointless, since it has no balance value. The Barb will hate just as much as a sorc to add STR so he can use StormShield, but in the end, they can both wear it. So stats really don't get the job done. Then you add the factor that every build had "Set attributes" to max efficiency (mostly; 80 STR, 100 DEX, 300+VIT) and this made that a player would depend solely on items since he won't be boosting his STR/DEX to over 150+ without compromising his char in Hell mode. It really locks down choices and stops player creativity.
Stats customization= Bad Choice (unless in a completely revised system)
Item Bonuses = Tried and True.
--------~~Mattheo's Quote of the day~~---------
----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums --------
Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
Which do you like more?
Actually your point is totally valid, because I didn't write about the level restriction but of course I was refering to an example withing a D2 setting that therefor would have such requirements, not on stats alone. I do agree with you that level requirements are equally important, however....
What I am trying to say is you really have to put yourself from a (d2 LoD) perspective where in the end, noone was really playing the game on a whim, they all knew what builds they wanted and excatly what would be needed to achieve it before even creating the char.
However if you are playing D3 for example, where you don't exactly know the premium items for your build and the perfect combo of stats, you will be leveling on what you think is a necessity. In the case of D2, if someone was to do that, he would 100% most definately end up with a char that either wouldn't be able to wear anything (too much into vit/dex/mana) not enough STR, or a char that would be able to wear everything he wanted (if he can find them) but he would get murdered in hell due to lack of VIT. He would be like, well shit..I just spent 200+ points into my barb's strength, expecting to need it, and it having a prominent effect on my char, when in fact it was a total waste of points and char cuz the 200 STR points do absolutely nothing apart from an insignificant damage boost..
So D2 was really really misleading people on that point and made it terribly easy to create an unsuccessful character.
So the only option really was to follow someone else's footsteps that knew the presets for the build. It really takes out the creativity from the game. Therefor agreeing with you on the point that, yes ,although we shouldn't be able to cheat our way into wearing items due to major stat boosts, but if Blizz implemented other restrictions than stats/level it would greatly help the system they are currently running.
All in all, I think we are actually on the same mindset, unless I understood wrong. We are more or less saying the same thing.:thumbsup:
And Psykosis, I really think the point you made definately supports what I'm saying.
I think everyone has this kind of opinion when it comes to RPGs and character development. People love to be able to affect their chars with their decisions when they level up. But D2 was a perfect example of that NOT happening. It was prone to a "preset way" of building a char. Like I said, Stat Points didn't really affect the char all that much in most case and really helped in creating unsuccessful builds. Especially when you compare it to other good RPGs out there. A little disapointing. So unless they revamped the whole stats system for D3, I think auto stats would do just as good if not better than what D2 offered.
--------~~Mattheo's Quote of the day~~---------
----------Brought to you by Diablofans.com Forums --------
Originally Posted by mattheo_majik
I LOVE being a SEX TON!!!
Short sighted is short sighted...
Just because it doesn't SAY "R-P-FUCKING-G" doesn't mean you can't compare the two- and doesn't mean that it doesn't share elements with the genre. Every game that lets you play a character has some element of role playing...and fuck yes Heavenly Sword and God of War share alot of common ground and mechanics with Diablo. However, the scale and execution are different... learn to tell the difference.
From that last post i got that impression too. There should stil bel enough room for customization and with the possibilities of respecs we'll be able to see more "weird" specs and people dressed a different way trying those out. Copycats will still exist but they wont have half the fun we will
Sorry, but you're wrong. True, most games that put you in control of a protagonist have RPG elements; but that doesn't define them as RPG. Halo for instance puts in you control of Master Chief right, RPG? Please...
The lines between game genres are completely blurred making extremely entertaining gaming experiences; but still an actual RPG is an RPG. Everything else just has elements of this genre.
In a system where choice is allowed in any form, regardless whether those choices involve stats, skills, items, or anything else, eventually "ANYTHING" thats customizable, an "uber" system will follow.
Essentially my point is this, no matter what the developers choose to allow us to customize, eventually the best options will be found, and everyone will use that setup.
So, if we can't customize our stats (abilities), and we will be able to customize our skills, eventually the best setup for those skills will be released and everyone will start working towards them.
In conclusion, any choice will eventually lead to players seeking the "uber" setup. And if thats the case, either you must not allow any customization (Uberlame), or why not just let players screw up their characters however they want.
Because some players are not hardcore players and they don't want to reroll their character after beating act 3 and seeing their character sucks ?
Beside, you can't screw up your skills by changing the runes.
You don't HAVE to buy the game. :cool: Just saying.
Have fun with people that aren't idiots. Ill have fun with the idiots in diablo 3 :thumbsup:
Auto-stats will stay, obviously.
Since you are not interested in Diablo 3 anymore, can you just leave this fan site now ?
Since you are the only thing lost here and since I lost something, it looks like I lost you ?
Then nothing of value was lost.
But right, it's not a fansite, it's a troll nest or something ?
I HAVE NEWS FOR YOU ! They did diablo 1 and 2.
You like the games but you don't like the developers, now how retarded is that.
like lets say your a wizard. and you go and attack zombies with just physical attacks. then when you level up you get pints toward str and dex (and probably vitality cause duh) but none in willpower. cause you didnt use any spells during the level up.
or if your a wizard and you just use spells you just get points for vit and willpower but none for dex and str. cause you just used spells and no physical swinging.
you get where im going with this people?
it probably wasnt in demo cause it a demo and that logic is kinda hard to figure in a game i would think.