The fans have a right to have a concern about the way the game looks. It is a pretty dark rendition, I know. I was trying to capture the feel you have in the Durance of Hate or other dungeons. We're all trying to voice our opinions the best we can to help blizzard get the best end result that we feel stays true to the series.
The fans have no rights to the game. None. The only emulated rights come from market power, and that doesn't rest with the hardcore demanding fans. Hell, they fall under the annoying "too much effort, not enough return" part of the 80/20 rule.
Forget being true the series, except as it aids the world itself. What will sell the game and keep it active is appealing to the largest amount of the purchasing base, a good game design that will keep people playing and enough content to make the purchase worthwhile. All of the details that go into the game, such as the history and lore, make the game immersive. It allows people to put themselves into the game world. Graphics may evoke a similar response, but unlike the lore and such, it has a direct impact on gameplay. In the battle between "dark feel" and "I can't see where I'm going and find it frustrating", you give up the "dark feel".
Darkening the game leads to worse gameplay. Naturally, I've played dozens of games since I stopped with D2... up to the modern versions of D2. I reinstalled D2 after the annoucement. There is nothing special about the darkness or mood. It's irritating by today's standards, just as I'd find the screenshots being produced irritating.
Once upon a time, that is in D2's time, graphics couldn't represent things well. Like all low resolution media, including TV, our minds extrapolate what should be there. In other words, putting *nothing* was better than putting bad graphics, because we could fill in the gaps. This isn't true anymore. The same goes with the "cartoony" things. We cannot emulate real life and any attempt to do so makes the game fall into the uncanny valley. It just doesn't work. By introducing colors and styles into the game, these issues are avoided.
To be blunt, Blizzard has game design down to a science. They have repeatedly produced top tier games, without fail, by applying that science. There are very good design principles at work in D3, and they rightfully will ignore the fans that do not understand them. In the end, even if the hardcore fans don't buy it, they can depend on a solid and well developped game to sell to the public. When it does, only an extreme minority of the original fans won't accept the game.
In the end, they can either trust their team of professionals with years of experience and successful projects... or a bunch of arm chair developpers. It won't be a hard decision for them.
I, for one, am extremely impressed. And I have watched the demo specifically for "darkness" issues and environmental design. The small issues I have are level design issues, hardly something I can comment on from the demo. The design is one of the best that I've seen, combining engine and graphics seamlessly. I can practically feel myself playing this game.
I would reconsider buying the game if it was "darkened" up, simply because the enjoyment of the game would be diminished. Not because it is "not diablo", but literally because it would become a worse game.
The fans have a right to have a concern about the way the game looks. It is a pretty dark rendition, I know. I was trying to capture the feel you have in the Durance of Hate or other dungeons. We're all trying to voice our opinions the best we can to help blizzard get the best end result that we feel stays true to the series.
You pick the Durance of Hate as your comparison???
That was later on in the game, and of course it was darker!
You can't compare that level to the demo. That really isn't a fair comparison.
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Petitions are bogus and invalid, when anyone can sign up multiple times using fake names. The end result is that valid concerns fail to get heard, when drowned out like this.
The fans have no rights to the game. None. The only emulated rights come from market power, and that doesn't rest with the hardcore demanding fans. Hell, they fall under the annoying "too much effort, not enough return" part of the 80/20 rule.....
I didn't say the fans have an actual right to how the game looks. Blizzard is putting forth the time, effort and resources to make this game. Of course it's their baby, and they can make it however they please. They are much more talented than most of us could ever hope to be.
I see the end user as a client somewhat. No matter how much you hate a design decision the client wants, you have to make it because the client is always "right", and in the end they are paying your salaries.
Blizzard has said many times that they want the communities feedback. "31,000" (according to the petition) Diablo players have agreed there is something that seems amiss with the engine at this moment. That's that I guess.
Quote from "slipperyninja" »
omg u have your gamma set so far down you cant see anything... since when was trav that dark? looks like you've edited the picture and blacked out the edges
This was a screenshot I grabbed google images that I thought captured part of the essence of Diablo's look.
Quote from "Kagasumi" »
You pick the Durance of Hate as your comparison???
That was later on in the game, and of course it was darker!
You can't compare that level to the demo. That really isn't a fair comparison.
Yep - dark doesn't mean "can't see a thing" - 'tis true.... But "gothic" is not only about "dark"
You will notice that some of the photoshoped screens apply the darkness in moderate amounts...
Another thing is the architecture - gothic style, above all things refers to art and architecture... and while act II's Lut Gholein wasn't gothic as it was East influenced in design, act I had a fair share of gothic archtecture etc.
Now... our cute little gameplay video revolves around Tristram. More specifically, the dungeon area is either the famous Tristram Cathedra or the tombs underneath it.... Funny thing is, whatever the area is, it's not gothic in style - I am not talking about darkness now, I am talking about architecture and art (statues, etc). They changed the basic concept behind Tristram Cathedra which was epitome of gothic architecture... The funny thing is, they still show the classic gothic design on their artworks - especially when they show Cathedra's exterior. So it's still supposed to be gothic - yet it isn't.
If you want to see how a gothic interior of a church looks like - look at the Act I Cathedra
First of all, the word is "Cathedral".
What is with all you people living in the past! It's so frustrating to read mountains worth of completely idiotic comments on the same subject. So many people are so clueless it's a wonder the human race has made it this far!
The game does NOT have to copy, nor should it, the art and locations exactly, pixel by pixel the pervious games art style. The exterior of the Tristram Cath is very recognizable. That doesn't mean they have to copy the layout, stone for stone of the actual dungeon below it. They decided to update it and play with it. It looks freaking awesome.
I feel ashamed to say I'm part of the same diablo community as alot of you who post such ridiculous comments here and on the official diablo 3 board.
I think it looks good.. Anyway the lighting as we've seen it can be connected to the story. So the longer in the game you get, the darker it will be - because the threat from the evil will be greater.
I love it!
Edit: I agree with you Alcovitch. Is this the same people shouting "We want Diablo 3!!"? Now it's like: "We don't want that kind of Diablo 3". It looks very cool
The colors are fine, but add a few more cracks and dead warriors in the tombs.
Also the "Rainbow", seriosuly guys, grow some confidence in yourselves. The rainbows are acts of nature, what do you expect by a foggy cliff and or waterfalls? Rainbows of DEATH? What a Grayscale rainbow? lol...
Controverisial, that word is so damn retarded. Everytime I hear it, I want to punch someone. That word is one of many reasons why Segregation still exists.
Looking at it from a Company design point of view I really appreciated what the panel had to say about how they have core values in their art department to keep them on track and also keep them distinct from their other IPs.
Unfortunately, they never once stated what those 'core values' are, aside from the word 'horror', which is a quality I don't think we've yet seen.
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‘I'M NOT LEAVING UNTIL WE ALL HAVE AIDS!’—The importance of calling them ‘mercenaries.’
Lord of the rings? There was lots of color in the daytime outdoors scenes, but the only good battles were either at night time (helms deep) or in a humungous city with battering rams and a flaming volcano in the distance. There were no pretty forests or rainbows at THE SAME TIME as the wicked monster-killing. For me, I will be temporarely happy if I know for a fact that the lighting system isn't in place yet, or if there is going to be a day/night cycle with a light radeus at night.
come on, you people, you have to say that the light radius made it pretty damn creepy. If there was one iconic ellement taken from the other two diablo games, I would want it to be the light radius. And that is pretty forgiving, seeing as that would take all of about 3 hours, and seeing all of the complaints (30,000+ so far) it seems like a pretty damn good bargain. What do you say, blizzard?
Diablo 3 in my eyes Has to be for most DARK DARK DARK, sure out and about suring the day make it kind of colorful nut not overly cartoonish colorful, as for night or the dungeos make it dark danker and more gorish/horrific.
I'm gonna keep repeating my previous statement. It was one GAMEPLAY video. EARLY stages. If you all think complaing and signing a potetion will help..then do so. It was basically just too show off the new areas, skills, characters etc. They were'nt saying HEY look at the graphical changes, This games gonna be hella bright with no light radius whatsoever..Thats not what they said. But seriously...who wants a gameplay video...where u can only see 2/3rds of the screen being displayed!!!!!!!!?
From the gameplay trailer, I have to say that it was a disappointment to me. Playing Diablo I for the first time would send shivers down my spine, the darkness making it difficult to see the next monster heading towards you, the eerie sounds, the dark gritty tone of the game similar to that of Sin City. That's what made Diablo unique! Diablo II followed on, with a slightly lighter tone and not so sinister. But Diablo III looks like every other hack & slash/rpg, I mean, maybe this is early days and maybe they will fiddle with the lighting, but to be honest, they've been working on the game for 4 years.
I'm still quite excited about the game, but I'm more excited about any new novels on the way. At least the novels stick to the original feeling that the first two games had.
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Diablo- The first game i ever played for the PC in 1997. Diablo 2- The first online game i ever played in 2001.
How about all of you childish people complaining about the artwork and armor stop complaining. I'm pretty sure Blizzard knows how to make THEIR OWN GAME, better than all of you little kids thinking it's cool to create petitions for changes. I'm gonna laugh when they scrap the whole game from you dumbasses compaining... Grow up, Shut up, and get on with your lives you stupid little kids.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Erase Those Who Corrupt the Earth with Violence and Crime. Give the Weak Something to Hope For...
I believe Blizzard will come up with a game that will please us. Diablo III might not be as dark as the previous games, but we have to remember, this is a demo, just a snippet of what is to come. When you add in the story line (which we will immerse ourselves in) along with the background music and the sounds of horrible things that do more than bump in the night. Diablo III will seem more like Diablo III.
There has always been more than just visuals that make Diablo so spooky. So try not to judge so soon. I believe they will listen and make some adjustments, but lets not tell them how to make there game.
How about all of you childish people complaining about the artwork and armor stop complaining. I'm pretty sure Blizzard knows how to make THEIR OWN GAME, better than all of you little kids thinking it's cool to create petitions for changes. I'm gonna laugh when they scrap the whole game from you dumbasses compaining... Grow up, Shut up, and get on with your lives you stupid little kids.
Christ, you're the one coming off as childish, we are also the people who've made the series popular. Without us, there would probably be no Diablo III. To us it's like going to an ice cream shop and asking for a strawberry ice cream, and them giving us a banana ice cream, yeah we get an ice cream, but it tastes like shit.
You're right, Blizzard knows how to make games, but their main focus is to make money, thus why it looks like they're making a game that appeals to a wider audience, but almost forgetting about the people who have played Diablo since the first instalment. So in reality, if you hate kids so much, then this game aint for you, because you're gonna get 5 year olds playing it due to Blizzard making it for a wider audience.
I don't think a petition is going to do much, so I'm not gonna sign any.
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Diablo- The first game i ever played for the PC in 1997. Diablo 2- The first online game i ever played in 2001.
I think everyone needs to calm down. People are blowing the whole thing out of proportion, this is just a game play demo, we can give them feed back and let them make the necessary changes. But who are we to immediately go up in arms about less than .5% of the game. Everyone needs to calm down and relax, Blizzard is not going to mess anything up. Change is going to happen, the only thing we can do help guide it and give our own advise.
From the gameplay trailer, I have to say that it was a disappointment to me. Playing Diablo I for the first time would send shivers down my spine, the darkness making it difficult to see the next monster heading towards you, the eerie sounds, the dark gritty tone of the game similar to that of Sin City. That's what made Diablo unique! Diablo II followed on, with a slightly lighter tone and not so sinister. But Diablo III looks like every other hack & slash/rpg, I mean, maybe this is early days and maybe they will fiddle with the lighting, but to be honest, they've been working on the game for 4 years.
I'm still quite excited about the game, but I'm more excited about any new novels on the way. At least the novels stick to the original feeling that the first two games had.
I loved the gameplay trailer. diablo for me is the ultimate hack n slash rpg. Never had nothing to do with the creepyness for me..100,000 random gen wpns and 5000 unique wpns, skills, stats, monsters that were unique, dungeons and realms that were unlike any other, pvp and co-op is what this game was all about. ACTUALLY now that I think about it...What would be awesome is incorporating daytime and nighttime. Nighttime with the darker light radius visuals and daytime..the best of both worlds..
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The fans have no rights to the game. None. The only emulated rights come from market power, and that doesn't rest with the hardcore demanding fans. Hell, they fall under the annoying "too much effort, not enough return" part of the 80/20 rule.
Forget being true the series, except as it aids the world itself. What will sell the game and keep it active is appealing to the largest amount of the purchasing base, a good game design that will keep people playing and enough content to make the purchase worthwhile. All of the details that go into the game, such as the history and lore, make the game immersive. It allows people to put themselves into the game world. Graphics may evoke a similar response, but unlike the lore and such, it has a direct impact on gameplay. In the battle between "dark feel" and "I can't see where I'm going and find it frustrating", you give up the "dark feel".
Darkening the game leads to worse gameplay. Naturally, I've played dozens of games since I stopped with D2... up to the modern versions of D2. I reinstalled D2 after the annoucement. There is nothing special about the darkness or mood. It's irritating by today's standards, just as I'd find the screenshots being produced irritating.
Once upon a time, that is in D2's time, graphics couldn't represent things well. Like all low resolution media, including TV, our minds extrapolate what should be there. In other words, putting *nothing* was better than putting bad graphics, because we could fill in the gaps. This isn't true anymore. The same goes with the "cartoony" things. We cannot emulate real life and any attempt to do so makes the game fall into the uncanny valley. It just doesn't work. By introducing colors and styles into the game, these issues are avoided.
To be blunt, Blizzard has game design down to a science. They have repeatedly produced top tier games, without fail, by applying that science. There are very good design principles at work in D3, and they rightfully will ignore the fans that do not understand them. In the end, even if the hardcore fans don't buy it, they can depend on a solid and well developped game to sell to the public. When it does, only an extreme minority of the original fans won't accept the game.
In the end, they can either trust their team of professionals with years of experience and successful projects... or a bunch of arm chair developpers. It won't be a hard decision for them.
I, for one, am extremely impressed. And I have watched the demo specifically for "darkness" issues and environmental design. The small issues I have are level design issues, hardly something I can comment on from the demo. The design is one of the best that I've seen, combining engine and graphics seamlessly. I can practically feel myself playing this game.
I would reconsider buying the game if it was "darkened" up, simply because the enjoyment of the game would be diminished. Not because it is "not diablo", but literally because it would become a worse game.
You pick the Durance of Hate as your comparison???
That was later on in the game, and of course it was darker!
You can't compare that level to the demo. That really isn't a fair comparison.
I didn't say the fans have an actual right to how the game looks. Blizzard is putting forth the time, effort and resources to make this game. Of course it's their baby, and they can make it however they please. They are much more talented than most of us could ever hope to be.
I see the end user as a client somewhat. No matter how much you hate a design decision the client wants, you have to make it because the client is always "right", and in the end they are paying your salaries.
Blizzard has said many times that they want the communities feedback. "31,000" (according to the petition) Diablo players have agreed there is something that seems amiss with the engine at this moment. That's that I guess.
This was a screenshot I grabbed google images that I thought captured part of the essence of Diablo's look.
Catacombs?
First of all, the word is "Cathedral".
What is with all you people living in the past! It's so frustrating to read mountains worth of completely idiotic comments on the same subject. So many people are so clueless it's a wonder the human race has made it this far!
The game does NOT have to copy, nor should it, the art and locations exactly, pixel by pixel the pervious games art style. The exterior of the Tristram Cath is very recognizable. That doesn't mean they have to copy the layout, stone for stone of the actual dungeon below it. They decided to update it and play with it. It looks freaking awesome.
I feel ashamed to say I'm part of the same diablo community as alot of you who post such ridiculous comments here and on the official diablo 3 board.
I love it!
Edit: I agree with you Alcovitch. Is this the same people shouting "We want Diablo 3!!"? Now it's like: "We don't want that kind of Diablo 3". It looks very cool
Also the "Rainbow", seriosuly guys, grow some confidence in yourselves. The rainbows are acts of nature, what do you expect by a foggy cliff and or waterfalls? Rainbows of DEATH? What a Grayscale rainbow? lol...
Controverisial, that word is so damn retarded. Everytime I hear it, I want to punch someone. That word is one of many reasons why Segregation still exists.
‘I'M NOT LEAVING UNTIL WE ALL HAVE AIDS!’—The importance of calling them ‘mercenaries.’
battlenet acc = Cr0w and TheCr0w
http://www.wegame.com/watch/Diablo_3_Gameplay_6_29_08/
Is it just me, or does the first clip in the video have fog of war, and the second clip have light radius?
I'm still quite excited about the game, but I'm more excited about any new novels on the way. At least the novels stick to the original feeling that the first two games had.
Diablo - The first game i ever played for the PC in 1997.
Diablo 2 - The first online game i ever played in 2001.
There has always been more than just visuals that make Diablo so spooky. So try not to judge so soon. I believe they will listen and make some adjustments, but lets not tell them how to make there game.
Christ, you're the one coming off as childish, we are also the people who've made the series popular. Without us, there would probably be no Diablo III. To us it's like going to an ice cream shop and asking for a strawberry ice cream, and them giving us a banana ice cream, yeah we get an ice cream, but it tastes like shit.
You're right, Blizzard knows how to make games, but their main focus is to make money, thus why it looks like they're making a game that appeals to a wider audience, but almost forgetting about the people who have played Diablo since the first instalment. So in reality, if you hate kids so much, then this game aint for you, because you're gonna get 5 year olds playing it due to Blizzard making it for a wider audience.
I don't think a petition is going to do much, so I'm not gonna sign any.
Diablo - The first game i ever played for the PC in 1997.
Diablo 2 - The first online game i ever played in 2001.
I loved the gameplay trailer. diablo for me is the ultimate hack n slash rpg. Never had nothing to do with the creepyness for me..100,000 random gen wpns and 5000 unique wpns, skills, stats, monsters that were unique, dungeons and realms that were unlike any other, pvp and co-op is what this game was all about. ACTUALLY now that I think about it...What would be awesome is incorporating daytime and nighttime. Nighttime with the darker light radius visuals and daytime..the best of both worlds..