I've seen many comments over time on whether or not the Prime Evils will return in Diablo 3. I wanted to make mention that we've only ever destroyed them while they were inhabiting the bodies of humans.
Diablo: King Leoric's son and then the Warrior/Dark Wanderer in Diablo 2
Mephisto: was inhabiting the body of Sankekur
Baal: had melded with Tal Rasha
Every time we have slain them it has merely been to banish them from the bodies of humans. The soulstones were outlets for that corruption but I assume the upcoming game will flesh out what has happened since the destruction of the Worldstone and the Soulstones.
Thats exactly what was supposed to happen... I'm not sure what you hoped to achieve with this topic... enlighten me. the soulstones are no more we destroyed them so they don't need those anymore. They will now arrive as their true forms with no human host.
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Yea I don't see why they'd have Duriel and Andariel return. Theres nothing to imply that they were living through a human host/soulstone, and if they plan on bringing back other bosses (ie Diablo) it wouldn't make a lot of sense to also have two other bosses return. I think we might see Baal return in the Dreadlands, seeing as the fate of his soulstone is unknown, and Diablo will make an appearance either in the main game or an expansion.
The strongest argument I have against demons actually being able to "die" is this:
In the Sin War Uldyssian willed Lucion to be nothing. He actually became nothing. It says in the sinwar regarding what happened.
"Yes, priest, Lucion is dead." Not exactly true. Uldyssian had caused the demon to cease to exist. According to Rathma, there was something different about such a fate, although Mendeln did not yet understand the vagaries of such things.
If a demons death is not the same as "ceasing to exist" then where does a demon go when it dies? We know for sure that Diablo and Mephisto both returned to the black abyss, the place where demons are spawned. So if he didn't go back to the black abyss or back to hell. THAT seems to be a TRUE death.
Ceasing to exist seems to be an abstract concept to demons, so it's my belief that most demons will return to the black abyss and are then able to be reborn.
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Well, according to your link the wanderer transformed into da D, he wasn't shed. You can see his body transforming as Diablo gained power in Tal Rasha's Tomb.
Although we did end up killing Diablo and not the Wanderer, the body technically was distorted human flesh.
Odd stuff: at the end of D1 you see the felled body turning into prince Albrecht. You don't see that happening when you kill the Prime Evils in D2.
Just as I am, to some extent, dino poop and cheese. Doesn't change the fact that the transformation is completed, which cannot reasonably mean anything but the fact that whatever remained of the wanderer was at that point gone entirely.
As for if there's a threshold when killing the host means not killing the Prime Evil, I don't think such a distinction ever existed. From what is hinted in the Sin War, if you happen to possess someone and that body dies while you're in it, you suffer the same effects. It's never actually proved though.
In any case, it's probably of no real relavance in this case, as both the Wanderer and Diablo had the soulstone intact. As in, even if there is a theoretical distinction between killing a Prime Evil inside a human or not, all three of them were in the possession of their soulstones at this time. So any discussion about whether they can return or not must inevitably focus on the nature of the Three themselves, specifically how death works for them, if it does at all.
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Interesting to ruminate on just how Diablo (potentially his brothers) have returned, we know we've seen Diablo but Jay Wilson specifically mentioned -two- demons invading Sanctuary in D3, so...hmm. I like the idea of the 3-1, the return of the Triune! But Jay's wording makes me skeptical. God I can't wait to start getting drenched in the new lore!
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I'm still wondering whether that's still canon or not. True, there's nothing more recent that outright contradicts it, but there are only two mentions of it, which are very brief and general.
Of course if Diablo has returned, then there must be some cosmic mechanic that allows for such a thing, since he should have been killed no matter how you twist and turn it in D2.
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I'm still wondering whether that's still canon or not. True, there's nothing more recent that outright contradicts it, but there are only two mentions of it, which are very brief and general.
Of course if Diablo has returned, then there must be some cosmic mechanic that allows for such a thing, since he should have been killed no matter how you twist and turn it in D2.
I like to think that the black abyss is what spews out all forms of life, good AND evil. It spits it out in order to be in balance. It's the greater mechanic that Trag'Oul serves. Or at least in my mind.
/takes off tinfoil hat
Izual's body was summoned from the abyss, so it seems certain thats where demons are spawned and if that's the case and Diablo is back there must be someway to recreate a being from that "energy" that returns there... Even if that energy gets tangled along with Mephisto and Baal's...
In the Black Road, it makes mention several times that killing a demon in hell kills it for good. They only need a host while walking on the mortal plane. Therefore, I see no reason that:
-Diablo would still have been inside a human host in Act IV of Diablo II
-He wouldn't be dead, as we killed him in hell.
Of course, Blizzard isn't exactly known for following their own mythos, which has been pointed out several times. Also, I wouldn't really want to play a Diablo game that didn't end with killing Diablo, so I guess I don't care all that much.
I am, however, just curious as to their explanation, and as to the other bosses. I'd rather like to see a reboot of the Prime Evils, as I always found them the most fun and the most interesting of all the bosses.
In the Black Road, it makes mention several times that killing a demon in hell kills it for good. They only need a host while walking on the mortal plane. Therefore, I see no reason that:
TBR is not necessarily canon. You could argue that it should be considered as such so long as it doesn't conflict with the games or the books, but seeing as both you and I think it probable Diablo will return, it's a moot point. And the mortal host part is directly contradicted in the Sin War novels.
I am, however, just curious as to their explanation, and as to the other bosses. I'd rather like to see a reboot of the Prime Evils, as I always found them the most fun and the most interesting of all the bosses.
Liek Daemaro said above, a return of the Three could be explained with the Abyss somehow. Whether it will is another matter.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
In the Black Road, it makes mention several times that killing a demon in hell kills it for good. They only need a host while walking on the mortal plane. Therefore, I see no reason that:
TBR is not necessarily canon. You could argue that it should be considered as such so long as it doesn't conflict with the games or the books, but seeing as both you and I think it probable Diablo will return, it's a moot point. And the mortal host part is directly contradicted in the Sin War novels.
I am, however, just curious as to their explanation, and as to the other bosses. I'd rather like to see a reboot of the Prime Evils, as I always found them the most fun and the most interesting of all the bosses.
Liek Daemaro said above, a return of the Three could be explained with the Abyss somehow. Whether it will is another matter.
"or the books" ? What other books? I'm not aware of any outside The original trilogy + Demonsbane, and the Sin War Trilogy.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
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Diablo: King Leoric's son and then the Warrior/Dark Wanderer in Diablo 2
Mephisto: was inhabiting the body of Sankekur
Baal: had melded with Tal Rasha
Every time we have slain them it has merely been to banish them from the bodies of humans. The soulstones were outlets for that corruption but I assume the upcoming game will flesh out what has happened since the destruction of the Worldstone and the Soulstones.
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If a demons death is not the same as "ceasing to exist" then where does a demon go when it dies? We know for sure that Diablo and Mephisto both returned to the black abyss, the place where demons are spawned. So if he didn't go back to the black abyss or back to hell. THAT seems to be a TRUE death.
Ceasing to exist seems to be an abstract concept to demons, so it's my belief that most demons will return to the black abyss and are then able to be reborn.
Although we did end up killing Diablo and not the Wanderer, the body technically was distorted human flesh.
Odd stuff: at the end of D1 you see the felled body turning into prince Albrecht. You don't see that happening when you kill the Prime Evils in D2.
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As for if there's a threshold when killing the host means not killing the Prime Evil, I don't think such a distinction ever existed. From what is hinted in the Sin War, if you happen to possess someone and that body dies while you're in it, you suffer the same effects. It's never actually proved though.
In any case, it's probably of no real relavance in this case, as both the Wanderer and Diablo had the soulstone intact. As in, even if there is a theoretical distinction between killing a Prime Evil inside a human or not, all three of them were in the possession of their soulstones at this time. So any discussion about whether they can return or not must inevitably focus on the nature of the Three themselves, specifically how death works for them, if it does at all.
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Been a while since I played it and even longer since I've actually listened to the dialogue.
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Of course if Diablo has returned, then there must be some cosmic mechanic that allows for such a thing, since he should have been killed no matter how you twist and turn it in D2.
I like to think that the black abyss is what spews out all forms of life, good AND evil. It spits it out in order to be in balance. It's the greater mechanic that Trag'Oul serves. Or at least in my mind.
/takes off tinfoil hat
Izual's body was summoned from the abyss, so it seems certain thats where demons are spawned and if that's the case and Diablo is back there must be someway to recreate a being from that "energy" that returns there... Even if that energy gets tangled along with Mephisto and Baal's...
/takes off smaller tinfoil hat
-Diablo would still have been inside a human host in Act IV of Diablo II
-He wouldn't be dead, as we killed him in hell.
Of course, Blizzard isn't exactly known for following their own mythos, which has been pointed out several times. Also, I wouldn't really want to play a Diablo game that didn't end with killing Diablo, so I guess I don't care all that much.
I am, however, just curious as to their explanation, and as to the other bosses. I'd rather like to see a reboot of the Prime Evils, as I always found them the most fun and the most interesting of all the bosses.
Liek Daemaro said above, a return of the Three could be explained with the Abyss somehow. Whether it will is another matter.
"or the books" ? What other books? I'm not aware of any outside The original trilogy + Demonsbane, and the Sin War Trilogy.