I'd love to know why Bartuc seems to be related to the assassin as well.
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Aside from taking down rogue/corrupt sorcerers, I'm pretty sure there was no other purpose.
But yeah, I'd like to know how the assassins are related to Bartuc/Horazon as well.
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Quote from "Sixen" »
"One in every 10 million people can potentially have a headache from this pill." God forbid she is the 0.000000001% of having a headache.
It's all in the LoD manual. And yes, the sole purpose of the Assassins is to hunt down corrupt mages. But it was Horazon and Bartuc that set the precedent for the Viz-Jaq'taar's existence. If it was not for the two brothers, the need for mage assassins would not have been realized to the extent of creating an organization for.
It's all in the LoD manual. And yes, the sole purpose of the Assassins is to hunt down corrupt mages. But it was Horazon and Bartuc that set the precedent for the Viz-Jaq'taar's existence. If it was not for the two brothers, the need for mage assassins would not have been realized to the extent of creating an organization for.
Precisely. Bartuc created a whole lot of trouble, so much in fact that the mages actually created an order tailored to kill them. That's a pretry serious move, considering that they're essentially engineering their own demise should it go too far.
The question is just how autonomous the Assassins really are. Perhaps if Diablo 3 elaborates on side-stories unlike it's predecessors, we could see some conflict between the mage clans and the assassins in d3. Either that or in a book, it just seems like the perfect clash that's just waiting to start.
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Hmm. As far as autonomy, I'm fairly certain their organization is completely independent of any mage clans. If any of the clans had a stake in their group, then that would influence whoever the Assassins deemed too corrupt and necessary for elimination.
And I think the conflict between the Assassins and mage clans already exists. But not really beyond the Assassins hunting down the occasional member of their order. It also doesn't seem like the Viz-Jaq'taar woudl go to war with any mage clan. That would be out in the open and devoid of subterfuge and secrecy and the Assassins are all about that. Plus, though they are skilled at killing individuals, they don't seem like they would even know how to carry out a full blown conflict out in the open. In such a conflict I think the Assassin's weaknesses would be greatly exposed.
They also seem very decentralized despite a likely heirarchy. We can at least be certain there are ranks within their organization since Natalya in Act 3 is only their waiting for her orders from someone else.
And I think the conflict between the Assassins and mage clans already exists. But not really beyond the Assassins hunting down the occasional member of their order. It also doesn't seem like the Viz-Jaq'taar woudl go to war with any mage clan. That would be out in the open and devoid of subterfuge and secrecy and the Assassins are all about that. Plus, though they are skilled at killing individuals, they don't seem like they would even know how to carry out a full blown conflict out in the open. In such a conflict I think the Assassin's weaknesses would be greatly exposed.
Supposing of course that there's someone to wage war on. There probably aren't a whole lot of them, but they seem very efficient at what they do.
You can crush a mage clan since they're an established organisation with all the administration that goes with it. But suppose the assassins are a few dozens, and that one assassin leader gets an eschewed opinion on what constitutes corrupt, and you basically have lone assassins, who seem to be well organized, targeting mages before they even know it.
And how will they retaliate? I suppose the assassins must have a base of operations somewhere, but other than that, the group seems highly flexible.
Quote from "Vizjerei_11" »
II just read it and by there means they have no rles to follow other than kill the corrupted.
Well there are certainly more to it than that. But I don't think Blizzard saw the value of making public the inner workings for the asassins, or for that matter develop it, for D2.
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You can crush a mage clan since they're an established organisation with all the administration that goes with it. But suppose the assassins are a few dozens, and that one assassin leader gets an eschewed opinion on what constitutes corrupt, and you basically have lone assassins, who seem to be well organized, targeting mages before they even know it.
I actually imagine it's not really some Assassin leaders deciding who gets hit, but there being a sort of pre-written edict on things that mages can and can't get away with. With something like that in place, they certainly would be able to hit whomever they wanted that was breaking those rules. But I suspect what their leader or higher ranking members would do is acquire potential targets for their footsoldiers. And if a mage is suspected of treachery, then the Assassin (foot soldier) doesn't just go straight to kill them, but investigates them first to confirm any wrongdoing.
What's funny about the Assassins as a class in D2, is everything they are doing just seems opposite of how an Assassin should work. Cause in the game, you're going in guns blazing sort of speak rather than using stealth, sabotage or subterfuge. But you could also argue that considering the desperate times of D2, they are more than just targeting individual mages, but trying to stop a huge wave of corruption at once, hence foregoing their usual techniques of killing.
Quote from "PhrozenDragon" »
And how will they retaliate? I suppose the assassins must have a base of operations somewhere, but other than that, the group seems highly flexible.
I've actually pictured it as more of a network than a centralized base of operations. Like a constant system of information on potential targets moving throughout multiple operatives and anything akin to a base of operation might just be an information hub where records are being kept.
I actually imagine it's not really some Assassin leaders deciding who gets hit, but there being a sort of pre-written edict on things that mages can and can't get away with. With something like that in place, they certainly would be able to hit whomever they wanted that was breaking those rules. But I suspect what their leader or higher ranking members would do is acquire potential targets for their footsoldiers. And if a mage is suspected of treachery, then the Assassin (foot soldier) doesn't just go straight to kill them, but investigates them first to confirm any wrongdoing.
Even so, just as with any legal writings, it cannot possibly include all possible scenarios. There has to be grey zones where it isn't exacly clear cut whether or not to ivtervene. Say for example a mage who is hunting demons, but in that pursuit utlizes limited amounts of demonic magic. Corruption cannot be absolute regardless of exposure, beacuse if that were true, then any mage would undoubtedly have been corrupted by now, just as all heroes of the games.
As such, there must be a matter of judgment involved on behalf of the assassins. Now say that the world is heading towards turmoil as he Three tighten their grip on Sanctuary. It isn't too far-fetched to imagine a leder taking a more liberal view on whatever laws they have.
Quote from "Siaynoq" »
I've actually pictured it as more of a network than a centralized base of operations. Like a constant system of information on potential targets moving throughout multiple operatives and anything akin to a base of operation might just be an information hub where records are being kept.
Exacly, which would indeed make it hard for the mages to crack down on the assassins, seeing as they have nothing to fight. Their only hope would be to hunt the assassins, something they would be at a disadvantage doing.
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I would imagine that if a mage was using demonic magics, then at the very least he would be under investigation. But that wouldn't mean he's necessarily going to be targeted. So yeah, I don't think either that there is such a rigid set of rules. And the individual Assassin probably would have a lot of discretion in choosing who gets hit or not. I still don't believe they have a single leader, though. A council at most, but one that is comprised of members of different parts of assassination plots. And it's even possible that certain Assassins are so effective and so revered that they are allowed to operate as sole agents with all the discretion they want.
I still don't believe they have a single leader, though. A council at most, but one that is comprised of members of different parts of assassination plots.
That may be true, in fact it makes sense. Since the Assassins were formed to combat demonic mages, essentially to fight corruption, a council would probably be their prefered structure of ruling, seeing as it is harder to gain total control over.
Quote from "Siaynoq" »
And it's even possible that certain Assassins are so effective and so revered that they are allowed to operate as sole agents with all the discretion they want.
Which still opens up for more possibilities of corruption. Any such Assassin could probably break free of the order and grab a few members in the process. We'd get a rogue organization, true, but one still very deadly.
That being said, I don't necessarily think this is a path we'll get to explore in Diablo 3. The plot is probably still very heavily focused on the main quest with the Three. But it certainly seems possible for a book or other lore-bit.
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Which still opens up for more possibilities of corruption. Any such Assassin could probably break free of the order and grab a few members in the process. We'd get a rogue organization, true, but one still very deadly.
Well that would be rather intriguing, actually. But the Assassins are ostensibly a rogue organization to begin with, it seems to me anyway. I mean, a rogue faction of the already established Viz-Jaq'taar I could see maybe becoming assassins for hire, or just using their powers for the sake of gaining more power and wealth.
I don't know what kinds of things would make an organization legit in Sanctuary. There's still a lot we don't know about governments in this world. We know there are kingdoms, guilds, trade organizations, things like that, but for all we know, a typical mage clan could be just as unofficial as the Viz-Jaq'taar.
Quote from "PhrozenDragon" »
That being said, I don't necessarily think this is a path we'll get to explore in Diablo 3. The plot is probably still very heavily focused on the main quest with the Three. But it certainly seems possible for a book or other lore-bit.
Who knows though. I mean, just by looking at the new map alone, we can see that they're really evolving the world of Sanctuary. Whatever we don't learn about it in the game itself, hopefully we'll get more information out of the new manual.
I never knew any of this. Great thread! It makes me wana do a pic of a few assassins in the shadows hunting a mage.
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
I don't know what kinds of things would make an organization legit in Sanctuary. There's still a lot we don't know about governments in this world. We know there are kingdoms, guilds, trade organizations, things like that, but for all we know, a typical mage clan could be just as unofficial as the Viz-Jaq'taar.
That's a good question. Come to think of it, we don't know shit. We don't even know if Westmarch is feudal.
Quote from "Siaynoq" »
Who knows though. I mean, just by looking at the new map alone, we can see that they're really evolving the world of Sanctuary. Whatever we don't learn about it in the game itself, hopefully we'll get more information out of the new manual.
I never knew any of this. Great thread! It makes me wana do a pic of a few assassins in the shadows hunting a mage.
Well, the only things that are canon in here are that Assassins belong to an autonomous organization originally formed by the Mage Clans. The rest is just inferred information and assumptons. So do take it with a grain of salt, this is just as much a theory as anything else in this forum
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I mean, I realize that. But those assumptions are logical and if any other info was divulged on it then I'm sure it would be similar or at least just as interesting.
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
One thing I thought of was the possibility of the Assassins having to hunt down and kill the Heroes that faced off against Diablo and Baal. This may give the Barbarian an even more tragic backstory: not only is he one of a few surviving Barbarians, but also lost all of his friends to the darkness. This would lend him even greater personal strength as being able to persevere. Hell, he may have even seen the assassinations as justified.
Anyways, the Assassins' code is based off Lam Esen's Black Tome, itself deeply rooted in Skatsim. The Black Book not only foretold the future, but also described the effects Hell and Heaven would have on the world of Sanctuary. The Assassins not only be charged with killing corrupt mages and officials, but also stemming further corruption of the natural world itself.
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Be it through hallowed grounds or lands of sorrow
All in the Forger's wake is left bereft and fallow
Is the residuum worth the cost of destruction and maiming;
Or is the shaping a culling and exercise in taming?
The road's goal is the dark Origin of Being
But be wary through what thickets it winds.
-Excerpt from the Litany of Residuum;
As Translated by He Who Brings Order
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
So have his weapons.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
But yeah, I'd like to know how the assassins are related to Bartuc/Horazon as well.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
So have his weapons.
The question is just how autonomous the Assassins really are. Perhaps if Diablo 3 elaborates on side-stories unlike it's predecessors, we could see some conflict between the mage clans and the assassins in d3. Either that or in a book, it just seems like the perfect clash that's just waiting to start.
And I think the conflict between the Assassins and mage clans already exists. But not really beyond the Assassins hunting down the occasional member of their order. It also doesn't seem like the Viz-Jaq'taar woudl go to war with any mage clan. That would be out in the open and devoid of subterfuge and secrecy and the Assassins are all about that. Plus, though they are skilled at killing individuals, they don't seem like they would even know how to carry out a full blown conflict out in the open. In such a conflict I think the Assassin's weaknesses would be greatly exposed.
They also seem very decentralized despite a likely heirarchy. We can at least be certain there are ranks within their organization since Natalya in Act 3 is only their waiting for her orders from someone else.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
So have his weapons.
You can crush a mage clan since they're an established organisation with all the administration that goes with it. But suppose the assassins are a few dozens, and that one assassin leader gets an eschewed opinion on what constitutes corrupt, and you basically have lone assassins, who seem to be well organized, targeting mages before they even know it.
And how will they retaliate? I suppose the assassins must have a base of operations somewhere, but other than that, the group seems highly flexible.
Well there are certainly more to it than that. But I don't think Blizzard saw the value of making public the inner workings for the asassins, or for that matter develop it, for D2.
What's funny about the Assassins as a class in D2, is everything they are doing just seems opposite of how an Assassin should work. Cause in the game, you're going in guns blazing sort of speak rather than using stealth, sabotage or subterfuge. But you could also argue that considering the desperate times of D2, they are more than just targeting individual mages, but trying to stop a huge wave of corruption at once, hence foregoing their usual techniques of killing.
I've actually pictured it as more of a network than a centralized base of operations. Like a constant system of information on potential targets moving throughout multiple operatives and anything akin to a base of operation might just be an information hub where records are being kept.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
As such, there must be a matter of judgment involved on behalf of the assassins. Now say that the world is heading towards turmoil as he Three tighten their grip on Sanctuary. It isn't too far-fetched to imagine a leder taking a more liberal view on whatever laws they have.
Exacly, which would indeed make it hard for the mages to crack down on the assassins, seeing as they have nothing to fight. Their only hope would be to hunt the assassins, something they would be at a disadvantage doing.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
Which still opens up for more possibilities of corruption. Any such Assassin could probably break free of the order and grab a few members in the process. We'd get a rogue organization, true, but one still very deadly.
That being said, I don't necessarily think this is a path we'll get to explore in Diablo 3. The plot is probably still very heavily focused on the main quest with the Three. But it certainly seems possible for a book or other lore-bit.
I don't know what kinds of things would make an organization legit in Sanctuary. There's still a lot we don't know about governments in this world. We know there are kingdoms, guilds, trade organizations, things like that, but for all we know, a typical mage clan could be just as unofficial as the Viz-Jaq'taar.
Who knows though. I mean, just by looking at the new map alone, we can see that they're really evolving the world of Sanctuary. Whatever we don't learn about it in the game itself, hopefully we'll get more information out of the new manual.
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
If we get a manual. Hopefully if it doesn't go online, we'll get it digitally. Somethng like this perhaps http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/encyclopedia/index.xml but hopefully more developed.
Well, the only things that are canon in here are that Assassins belong to an autonomous organization originally formed by the Mage Clans. The rest is just inferred information and assumptons. So do take it with a grain of salt, this is just as much a theory as anything else in this forum
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
And about the whole manual thing, I really hope that we get an actual physical manual. They just feel... better than digital ones, ya know ?
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
Anyways, the Assassins' code is based off Lam Esen's Black Tome, itself deeply rooted in Skatsim. The Black Book not only foretold the future, but also described the effects Hell and Heaven would have on the world of Sanctuary. The Assassins not only be charged with killing corrupt mages and officials, but also stemming further corruption of the natural world itself.
All in the Forger's wake is left bereft and fallow-Excerpt from the Litany of Residuum;
As Translated by He Who Brings Order