Guess the part that makes me more curious than anything, is the similarities in momument style between cultures that shouldn't have really had any ties. based on everything we know, the human populations that migrated to South America migrated through in very primitive times, and were not in contact with African and European populations. Yet those native South American cultures, and the Egyptians, progressing seperately, both reached a point where they were investing huge ammounts of effort build gigantic momuments on the cutting edge of what would be technologically feasible during their time. And in both cases it seemed to involve the worship of gods that they associated with the sky and stars.
It doesn't neccesarily mean anything, but it makes you think.
Well, it can also be pointed out how almost every ancient culture had some sort of giant winged serpents in their mythologies, but that doesn't mean that dragons existed. I find it also curious how cultures developed similar weaponry, even though they were separated by hundreds of kilometers and shared no prior contact. A more modern example of my point would be the whole Alexander Graham Bell and Elisha Gray case, where it's believed that they both developed the telephone independently.
My point is, humanity works on the same mental wavelength. Somehow we think the same and do the same things, follow patterns, without any preconception thereof. I also find that fact more fascinating than aliens being representatives of mythological tales. If anything, our myths are just a very good example of how different our cultures are, and yet how we are all so very alike in so many ways.
Given all necessary presteps, developing the telephone wouldn't have been that hard to do. Not to make their work less then it is, but some things just aren't that surprising as they first seem. As technology becomes available so become new technologies using the technology that just has been invented. There might have been some sort of theory going on, none can tell now. I for myself think people living back hundreds of years ago often did not have any interest in inventing things, as they were not forced or encouraged (enough) to do. That is the main problem, so few people caring enough to try and develope things might come to the overdue next step. I don't see the point in calling this mysterie. For many people inventions seemed to be magic, but after all they were simply thinking about how things work and getting the right patterns together.
If someone today is into physics or other science, it becomes clear to him/her that some steps just lay right before your eyes though you might need some time to accept them. Nowadays people are more encouraged to develope and merge their knowledge with others. That has not been for many centuries, so only rich or "special" people could follow their interests. Simply look up what history tells us, how living conditions where, how old people got back than. You will understand, as people today have to study until they are 30 years (if they don't reroll) until they achieve being post doc and further more time to become professor. Not saying only profs invent stuff, but without the right education you inventing anything (new) is not likely to happen. Why else do you think our society made these huge steps, flying to the moon in the same centurie flying in the air became something common people could do? It is the given space to develope your interests, to invent stuff, to study science. As you need more knowledge to invent new things today, because most basics seem to be invented.
So please don't say someone inventing the wheel or building pyramids or event two different people that don't seem to be related by accident invented the same thing in some time period is mythic or even made by aliens. This is just a religion your making up, like many others are already present all over the world. Any god, alien or whatsoever can enforce people to invent stuff. But the human mind itself isn't that weak, we are not dolls that can't invent new things. Search your own feelings and thoughts and you will come up with some rather surprising ideas for yourself, though you might have never read anything about that thing. Our mind is not as limited as that of a machine, we're learning everyday and given the right incentive, new things might come up. Religions, moral, technology, politics, anything. As for the mentioned same patterns: it seems logical, so scientists follow the next logical step. Sometimes it seems mindbraking, but most of it is comprehensible, if you have more or less advanced knowledge of the idea/work/technology.
No offense, but it seems like some sort of religion you try to praise and not the more or less scientific thought of life outside our planet. Sure the universe is incredible and we must not presume to understand it completly, but it is rather far away to say things happend in human history are made by aliens. This would go the same path as any religious thought, even the same path as us living in the matrix - you just don't want to go there. I much rather accept and try to prove the facts that science throws at us, as fossils and configurations of isotopes that make clear they can't be made up (why would anyone make such a big effort? just enslaving everyone would seem more reasonable so don't argue this one).
Open your eyes and accept what you see, search for prove if anyone tells you anything. This should be said more often, especially in some of the social groups my last post reffered to. Though I think some people are quite happy the way they think.
If anyone tells you he has seen an UFO, do you make it a religion?
Some people do, but others think that person might have had a bit to much to drink or not enough sleep.
Everyone is free to build his own opinion, but I fear and my eyes fill with tears when I see some of the announcements of the "new" religion in the US (just one example, other religions might or might not do better but this is an extreme example), the "creative builder" or some stuff like that. They kick science's ass by just spitting on proved facts and spelling out lies they spelled out so often the creators of this religion believe in it themselves, or haven't ever known better.
Imo the old religions where sort of prophecies, yes, but they were ment to make the world a more peaceful place. Visions of philosophs who tried to bind the elemental thoughts that time made up for human kind to become better. Ritual washings for example where made up for more hygiene. Justice after death for a better moral.
Hope without going into further detail I made my point clear. (Didn't say alien races might not exist, but I doubt their influence is so big on our developement) And for those who think Area 52 hides UFOs, please think of this: why would the government not use the technology available by simple analysis or asking survivors? If they are so superior, why wouldn't they be able to give us understanding about their technologies? Just a few thoughts. Go ask questions, that what we all should do. Don't take all that gossip serious, don't just watch tv and take it as facts. Politics won't neglect everything as they have to think of electors. They won't piss of one group, they try to be "liked" by everyone.
Nah seriously I personally think there is a really really tiny chance that we are the only intelligent species around this overwhelming universe.I highly recommend you to check this 2 links below so you can get the idea how gigantic the place we are is and there is more for sure
Umm, clearly you are talking to me, and I have no idea why the hell you are referring to me being a religious nut, but clearly you had no clue what I was talking about. And usually when someone says 'no offense', then they're about to be offensive.
Granted, the telephone example was stupid, but if the dragon and weaponry examples went above your head, then I don't know. The Azteca believed in the coatl gods, the English had the Wyvern, and the Chinese venerated the Long, these are just three distant civilizations all believing in flying serpents. How is it that in Europe and in Japan both nations developed bows without any contact with one another.
As for my gods and mythology statement, if you'd look at mythologies, they are all uniquely fascinating, and yet share quite a few resemblances, i.e. sun god veneration, humans crafted from the earth, gods being higher than us and yet reflecting human interaction in many ways, many empires shared their beliefs in much the same way.
The reason why I referred to mental patterns and us being of one mind, well, basically we all share the same DNA pool, we are created from the same cosmic building blocks. I really don't believe in psychics, not in the of the cold reading sorts, hell no, but I do often ponder if our minds may perhaps have the potential for psychic understanding. I've seen a Discovery program where scientists discussed just that, the potential for human neuro linking and the possibility of societies forming part in a mental link. I didn't state it as fact, but since this is a thread for theorizing, I brought the idea up as a possibility. People may share a genetic imprint in their genes, which could be why we find examples of dragons and pyramids across the globe.
If you'd read my earlier posts, you would find that I'm not a fan of aliens teaching our old empires about the wonders of our world. In fact, I am very much supportive of our ancestors building every marvel through hard work and ingenuity. Hell, I am all for science and our advances thereof, you can even say it's my 'religion', but I digress. My point is, for future reference, before you go off on someone, make sure you have your facts straight.
Somehow I don't think he was referring to you, but to the people that claim ancient aliens existed and we worshiped them in the past. Could be just me though but I saw no link to your statements (Azjenco).
Also there is a name for the phenomenon you're describing. It's called Multiple discovery. Just in case you've missed that one. :]
What this proves is that humanity, under the same conditions has... like... a true path before itself. Almost as if there's some strange order of things. Hmm, not sure what to make of it so far. :]
First of all: as overneathe supposed, I did not refer to you, Azjenco, only about the multiple discovery part.
Though one might say it seems strange, you should keep in mind how many discoveries human kind made without having multiple people thinking and inventing the same at the same time. It might even be a statistic event.
That's not my point, what was and still is my point is most of these "phenomena" might be explained in a simple way. I will not go into detail, we could both write a book, you what seems strange, me what my mind can't accept without facts.
Why are people all over the (northern) world scared about werewolves? Because wolves are(/were) a common -deadly- species. What would make them even more deadly? Human behaviour (and appearance) so we could not fight them, change at night (full moon) to their true form and hunt (with uber-power, wolves instincts and abilities). People make things up, as well as dragons might be made up. Their appearance is not the same in the different countries, the chinese ones appear more snake-linke than the european ones. Maybe in those countries dragons were some kind of god, because simply snakes might have been deadly or holy. Why are lions a symbol of power? Because they are deadly and powerful. What would make a snake more deadly? A flying snake, bigger than all the others. Maybe someone took drugs and saw people and shadows and made things up, I don't know. Think about it. You walk through a jungle full of deadly poisonous snakes and spiders, those snakes even lurk from above some trees and become dangerous for people passing by. The step to "flying" snakes would not have been that far.
And as some tribes honor animal-gods, as time goes by those gods become more powerful. Maybe someone doesn't believe in them and searches for them. He can't find them. So, that only proves either they can hide well - which is not something you would want your god to be good at - or they are so mighty they even fly in the sky. Remember what happend when a certain person first announced the earth is not the center of the universe. His opinion wasn't very welcomed. He had prove but the church didn't want to lose it's power or fail in a point, so they made him disappear. In my example that wouldn't have been necessary, because the shaman or someone comes up with the idea, gods live where you can't find them. I leave open where that would be. Primitive thinking makes you need wings to go there, so dragons here we go. (Angels, whatever)
This is not something that happened in a year you mustn't forget. These tribes had plenty of time to make up stuff they can believe in. That's what stops people from getting crazy in deadly environment I suppose. People start believing in something, facing the most deadly creatures or hunger or natural desaster. They ask why did this happen to us? And the answer is of course, they weren't honoring their gods enough. The only possible answer, not statistic events, earthquakes, butterflyeffect or anything a mind that day might have thought of. This is where religion becomes a desaster, people sacrifice things and other people, "witches" are burnt alive and other things better not mentioned happen. But I'm drifting away.
Try to make up a new god, nothing that in your knowledge ever excisted. Paint it and compare it to worldwide made up gods. You'll find some similarities.
Of course I can't explain everything. One can try, but some things will remain mysterious. But then again, what can a mind make up?
I really don't want to offend anyone here or elsewhere. I believe in religious freedom, as well as in freedom for our mind.
If someone likes to honor some god, I don't care. I just can't believe how people force others to believe in their gods. What would make me happy, would be more people asking more questions and trying to develope their minds. Maybe our system wouldn't work in that case, because many people would see it's flaws and would care to be against it, but maybe they would understand that it is -as bad as it might be- the best we ever had.
Ah, I owe you an apology Mistercurry. I saw the telephone reference and from there I just made a stupid assumption. I accused you of reading my post wrong and there I went and did just that. Went and made a proper ass of myself.
Anyways, yes, multiple discovery, that's it. I don't know how to attribute global mindsets and everything that's associated with human perception, but it's interesting point you brought up with the 'flying snakes' part. I wish there was some way we could find out how the whole dragon myth began. Moreover, I find it quite interesting how different cultures perceived it. Like you said, the Japanese 'dragon' is more snakelike and they viewed them as majestic worth being revered, while European dragons were winged reptiles, vicious and worth fearing.
Also, as you stated about the northerners fearing wolves, which led to werewolf legends, I find it interesting that the Native Americans shared the Wendigo, much like the werewolf, and also in the north. So it can be said that people attributed their fears to supernatural causes. Much like we today have supernatural explanations for the unknown, even in an age of science and understanding. Just as strange observation. Like you said, we can write countless books on this topic. People already have and it would always remain intriguing.
But I agree with what you said about religion. In fact, like different perceptions of the ancient empires, I like the idea that people revere their gods in different ways. Just makes the human species interesting. However, I do hate it when people try to force their moral views down your throat, or take an aggressive stance about their religious ways. I can go into this topic, but this is not the right place to do so, so I'll leave it at that.
Back on topic. What really annoys me is how pompous some people can get on the alien topic. For instance, the government knows, but they want to keep it secret. Why? There's nothing to be gained from it, and the only people who support this theory, and 'knows the truth' aren't the most savory of sorts. This could advance science in leaps, but the some government chooses to lock it away. Yeah right.
And here's my favorite part, people think the government is holding aliens in underground labs. Umm, so an advanced species travels to a planet, crashes and then the primitives take them hostage, while scouring their tech. Yeah, I'm certain the rest of their species are thrilled about the idea and just loves playing along.
I'm not convinced there have ever been "aliens" on our earth, or that they have ever abducted anyone. I am on the other hand completely convinced that there is intelligent life outside our solar system, probability says it is so.
This guy talked a lot about civilizations destroying itself but he forgot that as far as civilization find a technology to colonize another planets they probably will never die and that may not be that tough to do if needed.
Carl sagan is old, antiquated and most importantly... dead (literally).
Why does everyone always reference him for anything? (noteable atheists)
Cause his voice is awesome and he was a fucking brillian man. Better him narrating it than me writing it. The drake equation is even older than the clip obviously and that means fuck all. :D
Drake equation is missing factors that alot of modern theoretical physicists belive are necessary for life... however we don't really understand the conditions for life to evolve with other chemical compounds,etc