General Government Discussion Thread

  • #141
    Quote from Don_guillotine

    PS:

    I would advise anyone not to buy gold. Gold is currently facing a huge bubble. The people that made money with it have sold their gold already. Right now it's a bear market.

    Honestly I prefer Silver anyways. It's usually overlooked but still worth a good bit and will continue to increase in value.
  • #142
    Quote from Daemaro

    It's usually overlooked but still worth a good bit and will continue to increase in value.

    That is what all of the commercials for gold are saying. "It will never lose its value".



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  • #143
    Quote from Nektu

    That is what all of the commercials for gold are saying. "It will never lose its value".


    And they're right in that respect, unless we start MAKING gold somehow or something. All of our currency, used to be backed up in gold. Now it's just paper. Gold right now is just going for quite a bit more than what it's worth, silver on the other hand is still rising in price year by year. So if you buy it now, it's a safe bet you'll make a profit 5 years or so down the road.
  • #144
    Quote from Don_guillotine

    If the financial system died, that would make the Vandals' ransacking of Rome a nice walk in the park. It would be anarchy, not anything according to anyones terms. Our entire civilization would be at peril. More than likely, this scenario would result in a totalitarian nanny state, not the other way around.The system works, but it is sometimes faced with a shock because of retarded politics. With this type of options (anarchy vs. slowly developing the current system) I'd personally choose the latter any day.


    The financial system is the only thing that's very, very hard to take down; at one point in time, we have x amount of worth in the value of any given currency and that amounted makes up the sum of the wealth of the entire world. That wealth will not just disappear, it will just go somewhere else. In a world without currency, wealth is shown by material goods and not in currency; the only thing that gives a currency value is the country behind it, and not ideally either, but people looking in decide what that is worth. If people believe in the strength of your country, they will hold your currency to a certain respect.

    I would much rather prefer to build upon a system than abandon it completely. I'm not afraid of anarchy, I just think it's highly irrational and, frankly, quite stupid. I think the whole idea of Anarchy is that you don't need a ruling body to establish the boundaries of your life, which I agree with to an extent; I would love to live as my own country, but that is probably never going to happen because every square meter of land has been occupied in some way. If I live in the U.S, I have to pay taxes, it's as simple as that and I have no problem paying taxes (even though I don't because I don't own property), but I wish that I could choose to live without certain rules in my life that restrict freedoms that I want to have. I wish I could buy them, that's what I really wish. I give the government x amount of wealth and they give me a freedom of my choice. Of course I expect there to be restrictions to what I can't do, even if I do choose to buy it, but certain freedoms should be allowed to be bought.

    Freedoms that shouldn't be able to be purchased:
    - Freedom to enslave
    - Freedom to kill people
    - Freedom to vandalize
    - Freedom to steal without consequence
    - Basically any freedom that has the ability to harm others or infringe upon their own rights

    I would certainly buy the freedom to allow the use of marijuana, I would do that in a heartbeat. That's where that whole idea originated, can I just buy the right to use marijuana and you don't come knocking on my door with cuffs and throw me in the back of your car?

    I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
  • #145
    Quote from Daemaro

    Quote from Nektu

    That is what all of the commercials for gold are saying. "It will never lose its value".


    And they're right in that respect, unless we start MAKING gold somehow or something. All of our currency, used to be backed up in gold. Now it's just paper. Gold right now is just going for quite a bit more than what it's worth, silver on the other hand is still rising in price year by year. So if you buy it now, it's a safe bet you'll make a profit 5 years or so down the road.


    Gold and silver are just pretty metals that have been agreed upon to have value. Their only real value comes from the fact that they're hard to mine and they have practical applications in electronics and jewelry.

    Their value is mainly a "social contract", created by demand and supply. Take for example palladium, it's a much "younger" metal than silver and gold since it wasn't discovered until the 19th century. Its price even surpassed platinum some years ago.

    All that a major gold price drop would require is someone like Portugal selling some of their gold reserves. Portugal currently has a national reserve of 382,5 tonnes of gold. That is worth roughly 12,5 billion dollars. Portugal is facing a debt crisis, so if they sold the gold, this much gold entering the market would probably cause a chain reaction where the gold drops in price a lot.

    Silver is currently at an all time price high. That never bodes well. Generally the money is made when something is at an all time low. Silver could be rather easily depreciated, since there is so much more of it. I personally am pretty sure silver will devaluate back to the level it was before the current trend started. But that's what investing is, taking risks for profit ;).
  • #146
    Quote from Don_guillotine

    All that a major gold price drop would require is someone like Portugal selling some of their gold reserves. Portugal currently has a national reserve of 382,5 tonnes of gold. That is worth roughly 12,5 billion dollars. Portugal is facing a debt crisis, so if they sold the gold, this much gold entering the market would probably cause a chain reaction where the gold drops in price a lot.

    Ah yes, flooding the market with gold rendering it nearly worthless. If Portugal wanted to, they could. But I highly doubt they will.



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  • #147
    If anyone wants to know whats behind the gold and silver thing. (BTW Silver is gold on steroids.) These 3 video's are essential to understanding. The 1st two were made late 2010 and the 2nd addresses the recent attacks on silver. Basically gold and silver are just metals, but when currencies get abused then people return to the safety of old real money, ie: gold and silver. I can tell you physical gold and silver is taking longer to get in hand, I recently ordered some back on the 12th of may and my expected ship date isn't until the end of June.

    Mike Maloney Schools Bankers on Deflation, Gold and Silver (Part 1)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzef43gdupk


    Part 2
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Wrrzsrb-wg&feature=related


    Silver Price Manipulation JP Morgan -v- Bunker Hunt
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_nEevc0kKs&feature=player_embedded
  • #148
    Thread necro.

    For any of you paying attention in US politics, you know that there's more budget talks going on. Do you think it'll go down the same way as last time or will they (and I say this with a staggering amount of sarcasm) pull their heads out of their asses and realize that you just can't cut an inch of the deficit and say "that's all we can do."

    Also, HR 2306, proposed by Barney Frank and Ron Paul, seeks to remove marijuana from any federal supervision and jurisdiction, placing any marijuana related law into the hands of the states. Anybody in the US have any opinion on this and any predictions as to how this shit will play out? (I have some hopes, but I know that the House of Representatives is a hellhole for any reasonable discussion about marijuana, so I don't expect it to make it past first plate.)

    Edit for typos.

    I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
  • #149
    The marijuana thing needs to happen anyways, not because it's cool for everyone to smoke pot, but because it already comes down to state law. For example California. Sure it's still federally illegal, but states have the right to pass their own law and the DEA doesn't want to get involved in that on a larger scale. So they let marijuana in California go basically unhindered.

    The amount of money the federal government spends on wiping out pot is just ridiculous. 50,000$ fines and life in prison for marijuana just seems really excessive. I agree fines are probably the best way to go, it punishes the people and brings money back to the government but choosing either 50,000$ fine or life sentence is silly. Most people who smoke pot cannot afford to pay 50,000$ the ones that can are the big time drug dealers.
  • #150
    Quote from Daemaro

    The marijuana thing needs to happen anyways, not because it's cool for everyone to smoke pot, but because it already comes down to state law. For example California. Sure it's still federally illegal, but states have the right to pass their own law and the DEA doesn't want to get involved in that on a larger scale. So they let marijuana in California go basically unhindered.

    As policy devolution goes, states are doing exactly what the federal government expects them to do, which is to test the waters with new laws. States are more ideal places for policy experimentation and depending on how well legalization efforts go, it could be a matter of time before it is made legal on the federal level. But that I believe is still many years away. Possibly it won't happen till I have grandchildren. Possibly longer. But it does depend on the states more than people may think.

    It's like with gay marriage. Really the federal government is clueless what to do about that. And people are more concerned about issues with the economy than social issues such as gay rights. So states are taking their own initiative to legalize gay marriage. Again though, it happens ever so gradually.

    I've no personal interest to see pot legalized either. I hate deadbeat pot heads. But as public policy goes, I think it's just a matter of practicality. I think we can legalize it so the benefits outweigh the costs and still prevent a slippery slope effect of harder drugs being suddenly legalized too. It really is all about public perception. Alcohol is just as dangerous if not more than marijuana but our perception and attitudes toward alcohol are just completely different.
  • #151
    Frankly, I don't see any bill that is worth it's weight making it out of the House. Granted, I see any bill that will fuck us up going through the House with flying colors.

    So, basically, no I don't think that anything will be done with the Deficit, not with this Congress, not with the current make-up of the House, not with two and a half (Pakistan anybody?) wars going on.


    On the note about pot legalization, I find it hilarious that tobacco and alcohol are both legal while pot is illegal.
  • #152
    I wish a hardened badass with a backbone would come out of the Green Party and put all these fuckers to shame.

    /my wildest dream

    Edit: I think that, when it comes down to it, how one consumes pot relates to their maturity and their sense of responsibility. A lack of both, in my eyes, creates a deadbeat.

    I'm all for legalizing and I am very much aware of the prejudice that people have towards marijuana. I know a friend of mine who won't even touch it, hates it, and has never tried. I would never, ever try to make her use it because I don't believe in forcing anything on anybody.

    And, yes, deadbeats are a nuisance. I hate the guys who are just all about weed. It's annoying and it's draining on the mind, it's just ugly, childish behavior. I haven't smoked it in a year (since two days ago), but I still feel like it's something that I'd like to do. Even before I "stopped," I only smoked it like 4 times. I have been offered many times and I have turned down many offers because I know that I had obligations to attend to.

    I think, in that sense, if you want to have legal marijuana, you have to put a lot of faith in the idea that people won't be idiots with it. People are idiots with alcohol too, so I guess they're one in the same in that aspect that they are easily abused by people who don't fucking know better.

    I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
  • #153
    That will never happen. The American people either A) Understand that with the FPTP voting system, voting for the Green Party would essentially be a vote for the Republicans, or B) don't give a shit. And without getting into office in the first place, it doesn't matter how much of a badass with a backbone you are, you cannot do much of anything.
  • #154
    Well, I hope this country cuts off the deadliest of both tumors before it's too late.

    I can't trust Democrats the way I used to. I take everything that Obama says now with a grain of salt. I take everything a Republican says with a pound of arsenic though.

    I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
  • #155
    Quote from LinkX

    Frankly, I don't see any bill that is worth it's weight making it out of the House. Granted, I see any bill that will fuck us up going through the House with flying colors.

    So, basically, no I don't think that anything will be done with the Deficit, not with this Congress, not with the current make-up of the House, not with two and a half (Pakistan anybody?) wars going on.

    I'm completely disillusioned by our Congress.

    Quote from Azriel

    I wish a hardened badass with a backbone would come out of the Green Party and put all these fuckers to shame.

    /my wildest dream
    Where have you been? Ralph Nader always put fuckers to shame. He told it like it was and he spoke very plainly on the truth and that's why everyone else in politics hated him and portrayed him in the media as a liberal whacko.

    Quote from Azriel
    I think, in that sense, if you want to have legal marijuana, you have to put a lot of faith in the idea that people won't be idiots with it. People are idiots with alcohol too, so I guess they're one in the same in that aspect that they are easily abused by people who don't fucking know better.
    This is a bit of an idealistic approach to policy. The best way to examine whether it should be legal is from a cost/benefit analysis of whether the positive effects will outweigh the detriments. As things stand, making alcohol illegal would cost the government way more than its highly regulated legal form now. But there are also lobbyists who work hard to keep pot illegal because there are things to be gained politically by it remaining that way and that is sad to me.

    When I was in Czech Republic a few months ago, people could sell pot on the streets and you could smoke it in the park. It was considered rude to do so, but for the most part, I think people were quite mature about it. They're weren't all getting high and going crazy all over the city or anything like that. Americans are more hypocritical about drugs though, more neurotic.
  • #156
    Quote from Siaynoq

    Where have you been? Ralph Nader always put fuckers to shame. He told it like it was and he spoke very plainly on the truth and that's why everyone else in politics hated him and portrayed him in the media as a liberal whacko.


    Aye, forgot about Nader.

    I wish more people voted for Nader. He did great things in the 60s that people today take for granted (safety regulations for automobiles), many people should take this into account and realize that there are people who truly care about the wellbeing of Americans.

    I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
  • #157
    I voted for him in 2008. :lol:

    I doubt he'll run again though. Which is fine.
  • #158
    Quote from Siaynoq

    I doubt he'll run again though. Which is fine.


    If the Green Party got a new face, that could possibly make the public a little more... public?

    And I wouldn't be surprised if Nader didn't run. Guy's older than McCain.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHhgllqSKro&NR=1

    Edit: Here's a good read.

    I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
  • #159
    Quote from Azriel

    Quote from Siaynoq

    Where have you been? Ralph Nader always put fuckers to shame. He told it like it was and he spoke very plainly on the truth and that's why everyone else in politics hated him and portrayed him in the media as a liberal whacko.


    Aye, forgot about Nader.

    I wish more people voted for Nader. He did great things in the 60s that people today take for granted (safety regulations for automobiles), many people should take this into account and realize that there are people who truly care about the wellbeing of Americans.

    Yeah, like Ron Paul....
  • #160
    The only thing I agree with Ron Paul on is ending the War on Drugs.

    I'm all for social libertarianism, but a lot of his economic policies just don't click with me and nobody in the house or senate will risk ending the war on drugs at the risk of their political career.

    I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
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