General Government Discussion Thread

  • #101
    Quote from Azriel

    Quote from EvilBeanz

    personally I think the party system in Amercia is dumb people here in the U.S think there are only Democrats and Republicans...and they basicly brainwashed everyone into thinking that.


    There's been a two-party system in America since its inception, they've just gone under different names. When the constitution was being written, there was a huge debate about whether government should have much oversight into the lives of people and that debate still goes on today; it's not as much "brainwashing" as it is "generational conditioning", in my opinion.

    I would love to see a third party come up and change things, like the Green Party, but I don't ever see that happening.

    Personally, I root for the Green Party, but I usually end up going for Democrats because, let's face it, the Green Party gets hardly enough press coverage and, like most grassroots parties, have a fringe following. I guess I'm left of center as far as political followings and ideals go. It's familiar territory for me. I won't go into detail as to why that is (I'm considering making another politics thread, but I don't know if that'll fly without some big flame war or argument coming up).

    This third party you speak of will either be the "Tea Party" (which imo, are no different from the Republican'ts) or the Libertarian party. I really hope it is the Libertarian Party, if we had a Libertarian for president, shit would get done
  • #102
    Tea party are just republicans who didn't want the republican 'taint' when they ran for office (the republican 'brand' was in the shitter when the Tea party started to be talked about).
  • #103
    The Tea Party is hardly a party. As Maka said, those who ran under the Tea Party moniker were just Republicans riding the coattails of an anti-Big Government/anti-Obama movement. The Tea Party movement was just that; a movement. I didn't support the "party" at all, but I do like their premise; better representation of the American people is needed.

    Read the Green Party platform. It's pretty much the same thing, but with a base that I can actually agree with (rooted in fair democracy, economic innovation, and environmentally friendly technology as the catalyst for economic growth).

    Here, I'll link it.

    Edit: I should note that the platform is from 2004, but I feel that it still holds a lot of relevance today.

    I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
  • #104
    Quote from maka

    ^^Mate, seriously....you are completely and utterly wrong. All you have to do is look south of your borders. Look at Central and South America. Look at the percentage of those populations that are fully native or part native. Any European nation would've done it? Sure. That's why North American natives are almost gone, while in places like, say, Brazil (a former colony of my own country), you can walk in any city and see a ton of people with native heritage. You can't just write walls of text about something of which you know nothing.


    They speak Portuguese in Brazil, if that doesn't scream European influence I dunno what does.


    Who's ready for government shutdown in 6 hours? :rolleyes:
  • #105
    Quote from Daemaro

    Who's ready for government shutdown in 6 hours? :rolleyes:


    Me.

    I mean, I hate the idea that America's two party system is bringing our democracy to a standstill over ideals, but I would love to see how the election plays out because of this.

    I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
  • #106
    Yeah. Instead of deciding how much planned parenting should get, it's become a matter of morality and ideology. It's pretty shitty. That's not the proper forum to express whether or not abortions should be legalized.

    I say a new bill should be passed that says if congress can't agree on a budget plan before the last one lapses their pay checks will be cut also. That'll put a fire under their asses.
  • #107
    If anything of that like was proposed and passed, our government would probably become at least over 9000 times efficient.

    I mean, they would probably actually care to give a shit.

    Edit:

    [spoil][/spoil]

    Just, y'know, for shits and giggles. Let's look at how well we're doing right now.

    It's our trade deficit up until 2008.

    I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
  • #108
    Quote from Azriel

    [spoil][/spoil]

    Is this spoiler showing the countries that are in debt?
  • #109
    No, it's showing the trade deficits of all countries up until 2008.

    I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
  • #110
    Don't have time to read this thread right now. Currently studying for exams. But I thought I'd leave this video/channel.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXNRzI64L9Q

    Watch it with an open mind.

    I'll be back to discuss!
  • #111
    Essentially, what I got from that is that the government places a monopoly on freedom. I don't necessarily agree with that point, but I do agree with the fact that their government, sometimes, sticks their nose in where it doesn't belong (for example, the War on Drugs).

    I also believe that there should be a team that investigates the premise of any stock-market speculation strategy consisting of independent, skilled economists. If the proposed speculation fits a certain bill of safety and the risk of backlash is minimal, than it can occur. That is as much freedom as I'm willing to give these speculating pigs.

    I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
  • #112
    speaking of stock markets:

    dont u wish kai ryssdal would just narrate your life with his puns?
    Remember the String of Ears

    "to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
  • #113
    He does have a nice voice.

    [spoil]

    So I just found this. Scandinavian countries make the top 5 most trusted countries when it comes to economics and, here's the kicker, they trust them more because they don't have as much wealth inequity as the United States does.

    But, yeah, I just thought I'd tout Scandinavian supremacy once more. I'm glad to see Estonia in there too.

    Original story: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/20/trust-wealth_n_851519.html[/spoil]

    Edit: I think that, if the American Tea Party was serious about what they were preaching, they'd order their elected officials to end the drug war. Why? Because that's another way to reduce the size of government.

    Or, at least, vote to take cannabis off schedule 1 which is where meth and heroin are situated. I find it kind of counter-intuitive that cocaine is on schedule 2 and yet it's even more harmful than marijuana. Marijuana is the biggest cash crop in the US, they should be jumping on this right now if the Republicans are squeezing the government's balls over deficits. $33 billion just from marijuana and that isn't taking into account taxation. I assume that that figure is just based off street prices.

    I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
  • #114
    Ron Paul, the main tea party candidate for president is for the federal legalization of marijuana, cocaine, and heroin. He doesn't really care for drugs, he just thinks it should be up to the states to decide what is legal and illegal. He is against the tsa, the patriot act, torture, military intervention in foreign affairs and the privately owned federal reserve. Basically the best presidential candidate ever besides maybe Thomas Jefferson. You've got to be crazy or uninformed to vote for anyone else. If you care about where America and the rest of the world is going to end up the choice is clear. Ron Paul 2012.

    Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
  • #115
    The thing is although marijuana legalization is being seen as more and more popular every decade, the people aren't going to vote for Ron Paul. He will get chewed up in the primaries and, consequently, his probable presidential candidacy won't see the light of day.

    The legalization movement has to be a larger populist movement for it to gain any real footing. I will say that the reason why it isn't gaining much footing is because of the common stereotype that people who support MJ legalization are just looking to get high. I don't necessarily agree, but I can see where they get that because there is a massive credibility gap there. I mean, you can tout the practical uses of cannabis all you want, but if you don't look like an outstanding individual, you're probably not going to sway my opinion. So, in order for this movement to get any further, the face of the movement has to change from the drug being used to the people getting thrown in jail because they made a choice that they think suited them.

    It would be absolutely ridiculous to throw tobacco smokers in jail because they made choices similar to the ones that marijuana smokers make; they smoke. They're two different drugs and they effect the person in very different ways, but the recipient of the effects is always different; marijuana doesn't work like a skeleton key and won't get the same results out of everybody. Some people who smoke marijuana are at risk for increased anxiety, but a majority of people don't experience this. It is inherently stupid to keep it illegal because of its core effects without taking into account the medical backgrounds of the millions of people who do. It's the government telling us what's best for us and, almost always, that's not what's best because the government doesn't actually know you as a person or a human being. They just assume that what's good for some is good for many, but the reality is that nobody knows what is good for the majority, so it's better to not even approach this shit in the first place; it's the epitome of negative social engineering and arrogance.

    http://www.chomsky.info/interviews/199804--.htm

    All I want is for this movement to succeed so we can stop throwing innocent people in jail at the expense of our tax dollars. We're practically shoveling our money to this dipshit lawyers who can't wait to make their payload on common misfortunes. The government is infringing on the peace of ordinary people who choose to smoke a substance that is, arguably, less dangerous than tobacco and alcohol. I think that's injustice. I think I'll never stop talking about this as long as it's an issue.

    I hate the way you cling to ignorance and pass it off as innocence
  • #116
    Honestly I think marijuana legalization is the smallest issue facing America in these troubled times. Our problem is the federal reserve, speculators, and the credit system. The Federal Reserve is a privately owned bank that has been given the right to print unlimited money and give it to whom ever they ( congress ) feel deserves it( mostly foreign banks ). Speculations should be banned outright, It is nothing but a tool for the ruling class to lord over us with unfair trade advantage. The credit system needs to be trashed since it is a form of indentured slavery and therefore unconstitutional. Everyone in the Council on Foreign Relations, The Bilderberg Group, and The Trilateral Commission need to be tried for treason. The system has been designed to fail by these crooks and when that happens, they will be there with the NAU (North American Union) and a brand new fiat currency and a brand new constitution to save us from ourselves. If there is civil unrest, they will label all the protesters domestic terrorists and have them targeted by death squads just like good ol' Osama. Isn't it great to be an American? :dead:

    Fuck you, I'm a dragon.
  • #117
    1.Dismantle the IRS (it's very existence is unconstitutional).
    2.Do away with lobbyists, they complicate matters.
    3.Incorporate a flat tax, that is fair.
    4.Reinforce immigration laws.
    5.Better health care.

    These are changes I would like to see. Granted, there are many more, but this is a good start.
    "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."-Friedrich Nietzsche
  • #118
    @Murderface

    I fail to see how speculation is bad. Speculation is just a financial act based on incomplete (aka partially "speculative") information. Information is not always available. Many venture capitalists have helped great things to happen. Since speculation is risky, and calculated risk is profit, speculation is more profitable and as such a normal part of a healthy market.

    The Fed is also a very standard central bank. It's system is slightly outdated, but some smaller central banks are even more so. There has been some misinformation (mainly dating back to the 80's and 90's) regarding Fed and its ownership.

    This is a good article about Fed: http://www.usagold.com/federalreserve.html and to my best knowledge holds little inaccuracies.

    I do understand that the current fiat money central banking system is complex as hell and has some issues, but Fed-related claims about the NWO are generally wrong.

    Serious critique can be expressed towards Fed, that is true. Especially since it does not have such a strict anti-inflation policy as ECB (continuation of the German central bank) does.


    Quote from Eldius

    1.Dismantle the IRS (it's very existence is unconstitutional).
    2.Do away with lobbyists, they complicate matters.
    3.Incorporate a flat tax, that is fair.
    4.Reinforce immigration laws.
    5.Better health care.

    These are changes I would like to see. Granted, there are many more, but this is a good start.


    1. How do you collect taxes and fund the government without an IRS equivalent?
    2. If lobbyists were banned, how would the government ensure that all parties' interests are respected? A democratic government needs to cater to the demos (citizens, both natural and corporate) and all the different interest groups within it as is necessary. The government can't act in the interests of everyone else.
    3. Agree with this, but even in the USA it's a political pipe dream.
    4. US is already very strict with its immigration laws. It's hard to immigrate legally. Illegal immigrants are a whole another thing. It's mainly a question of money. People dislike taxes, and more taxes would be required for stricter immigration control.
    5. Once again, people dislike taxes. That, and with no IRS, collecting them would be harder. USA already has one of the world's best health care systems (in terms of results). So I guess you refer to the fact that the good health care costs exorbitant amounts of money, and USA is very ineffective when health care is compared in gain per dollar spent. Therefore it's mainly a question of money. And it seems like a political pipe dream within the near future. In fifty years time, possibly? Changes on nation-wide level are slow.
  • #119
    1. The IRS was supposed to be a temporary agency created during War time. The reason it still exists, is because people within the government love getting money before doing their damn jobs. It hemorrhages billions of dollars, just to keep the service operating. If it actually serves a roll these days, then fine, create a new agency that doesn't have an unconstitutional amount of power.
    2.I don't care what oil companies want, they get enough out of us already. Lobbyists hinder political process, and are one of the reasons that I don't vote. There is always a hidden agenda for every candidate (x company offered them y amount of dollars to do z). Few to none of their campaign promises will be met, be it directly their fault, or the system's.
    4. I live in California, I call BS on that point.
    5. I would much rather pay slightly higher taxes, if it meant my Health Insurance was covered by my country. Health care is way too damn expensive here.
    "Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you."-Friedrich Nietzsche
  • #120
    Quote from Murderface

    Honestly I think marijuana legalization is the smallest issue facing America in these troubled times. Our problem is the federal reserve, speculators, and the credit system. The Federal Reserve is a privately owned bank that has been given the right to print unlimited money and give it to whom ever they ( congress ) feel deserves it( mostly foreign banks ). Speculations should be banned outright, It is nothing but a tool for the ruling class to lord over us with unfair trade advantage. The credit system needs to be trashed since it is a form of indentured slavery and therefore unconstitutional. Everyone in the Council on Foreign Relations, The Bilderberg Group, and The Trilateral Commission need to be tried for treason. The system has been designed to fail by these crooks and when that happens, they will be there with the NAU (North American Union) and a brand new fiat currency and a brand new constitution to save us from ourselves. If there is civil unrest, they will label all the protesters domestic terrorists and have them targeted by death squads just like good ol' Osama. Isn't it great to be an American? :dead:


    I think I just saw a ghost! Long time no see.

    I'm not a fan of the government. It just doesn't seem to work. I just want to stay under the radar and let those guys ruin the world on their own. When the ship goes down, I'll jump ship.
    "I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
    -Equinox

    "We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
    -Winged
  • To post a comment, please or register a new account.
Posts Quoted:
Reply
Clear All Quotes