No more used games?

  • #1
    With console companies already planning the next-gen, and even the Wii U due out later this year, many have begun speculating what the new consoles will come with. Obviously we already know a lot about the Wii U because of E3 last year and probably more again this year. But the real heavy hitters are the next Playstation and Xbox.

    If you pay attention to gaming news, neither Microsoft nor Sony will be showcasing their next-gen console this year. Especially at E3. So we don't know when we will be getting information on these new consoles. But possible leaks and rumors have come out giving the next Xbox and Playstation codenames. They are Durango and Orbis, respectively. Now these don't really tell us much but that is not all that has been reportedly leaked.

    Each console will come with upgrades to both their hardware and software. But each console is rumored to also have measures in place to prevent playing used games. You might wonder how it would work? So do I. But it is also reported that each game would be registered to your account, Xbox Live account or PSN account, and that disc could only be used with that account. Thus preventing anyone else from using the game.

    Now this, in my opinion, should never happen. While used games do take money from the developers, this is also preventing you from trying to game before buying. As many games now-a-days, even PC games, there are no demos before the game is released so you would have to go out on a limb and buy it. But there is a bit of good news in this.

    While the disc might be locked to someone elses account, it is reported that the new Playstation will give plays a sort of trial mode of the game by locking portions of the disc from being played. This is good for those video game rental places/services because it still keeps them in business. But it also appears that you will need to be connected online to play the games. Even if you have a physical copy of it.

    While I am excited for the next-gen consoles to come around, I will be skipping over this generation if they implement these changes. I understand that money is potentially lost here. But most of the time that I would get a used game is when it is impossible to find a new copy of that game. And this, in my eyes, is more of the greedy companies that realize that places like Gamestop are making millions off of used game sales and wanting a cut of that pie. Many people, as is, buy their games new and these companies are receiving that money right away. So I don't see a big need for this anti used game software.

    But what do you guys think? Do you agree with this new approach or do you disagree. I would love to hear your opinions and thoughts on this topic.

    Remeber, this is all rumored still. Until official confirmation comes out, from Microsoft and Sony, take it with a grain of salt/

    Links:
    http://kotaku.com/5896996/the-next-playstation-is-called-orbis-sources-say-here-are-the-details
    http://kotaku.com/5879202/sources-the-next-xbox-will-play-blu+ray-may-not-play-used-games-and-will-introduce-kinect-2?popular=true
    I don't always burn. But when I do, I use hellfire.
  • #2
    Well step by step, this is what will happen. It started with free DLC, online accounts on a lot of PC games etc. I wouldn't be surprised.
    Also even if the consoles come out in 2013 or 2014 a console is never truly really alive before 1 year after its release so like 2014, 2015.

    This gives a lot of time to prepare peoples' mind to this.
  • #3
    God I hope this isn't true.
  • #4
    I hope there isn't any new consoles for a bit longer. I hate buying new consoles. :P
  • #5
    People wonder why it seems Consols are dieing out.
    I just want a little bit of tenderness :(

  • #6
    I game 95% on the PC. The rest is on my smart phone (Paladog, PvsZ) and DS (which includes SNES games and older gameboy games). My last consoles were PS1 and N64. I could care less about newer consoles, I usually play my friends' anyways.
    "The Unchosen" Pain of Admirance Sigil (For those without -Feat of Strength-):

    http://i.imgur.com/O7Oeo.png

    I received TWO beta keys. Eat it and like it.
  • #7
    rumor has it, xbox 720 won't even have an optical drive. You'll download all your games to its internal hard drive and it will be locked to your xbox live account.

    Hell, blizzard is already doing this with diablo 3. once you install it and register the key, you can never sell it to someone. you can also not buy diablo 3 used. ever.
  • #8
    Quote from falcompsx

    rumor has it, xbox 720 won't even have an optical drive. You'll download all your games to its internal hard drive and it will be locked to your xbox live account.

    Hell, blizzard is already doing this with diablo 3. once you install it and register the key, you can never sell it to someone. you can also not buy diablo 3 used. ever.


    It makes complete business sense. Resale is what any retailer or producer hates. I'm guessing they'll make more free demos to compliment this new system. Also, it helps curb piracy, the scourge of the software industry and will help it thrive a bit more. I honestly think there would be more games out there if it weren't for piracy.
    "The Unchosen" Pain of Admirance Sigil (For those without -Feat of Strength-):

    http://i.imgur.com/O7Oeo.png

    I received TWO beta keys. Eat it and like it.
  • #9
    I'm not a big console fan, it's the limited controls that I hate the most... it was fun growing up on a console, but ever since I got into computer games, I've never really looked back at console. I even have a PS3 with 0 games... I just use it for Netflix and a cheap storage drive and blue ray player, haha.

    I think it is a smart move to stop the use of used games... developers make no money on those games... If one GameStop had 1 copy of Red Dead Redemption, and someone played it, beat it, done with it, traded it in for something else, and another kid comes in and buys that used copy, does the same thing, over and over... multiple customers played off one game, and the developers only get paid for that one copy... the rest just goes right to GameStop. Which is unfortunate.

    This will bring money back to developers, I think it's a good move. Pretty soon everything will be bought online through an account like Steam is what I'm guessing... way cheaper for developers to send you a file than to send you a DVD copy of the game.

    -Temp
  • #10
    Wouldn't surprise me if Microsoft did it, but Sony have always given developers and customers more breathing room, for the first 5 years of the PS3 you could share most of your PSN games with 4 other people, with the microsoft console you couldn't even log into your XBL account on another system without going through A LOT of trouble.

    I think that using online passes as a countermeasure for used games is enough.
  • #11
    I don't really care, I always buy my games new. Also this is already happening a little bit on the current generation of consoles. Many games are sold with a one time use code for extra content and/or online play.

    But those of you that don't like this, shouldn't you be angry at Blizzard for doing the exact same thing?
  • #12
    Quote from Tempest07

    I'm not a big console fan, it's the limited controls that I hate the most... it was fun growing up on a console, but ever since I got into computer games, I've never really looked back at console. I even have a PS3 with 0 games... I just use it for Netflix and a cheap storage drive and blue ray player, haha.

    I think it is a smart move to stop the use of used games... developers make no money on those games... If one GameStop had 1 copy of Red Dead Redemption, and someone played it, beat it, done with it, traded it in for something else, and another kid comes in and buys that used copy, does the same thing, over and over... multiple customers played off one game, and the developers only get paid for that one copy... the rest just goes right to GameStop. Which is unfortunate.

    This will bring money back to developers, I think it's a good move. Pretty soon everything will be bought online through an account like Steam is what I'm guessing... way cheaper for developers to send you a file than to send you a DVD copy of the game.

    -Temp

    Are you kidding me? The developers already made money off that one copy, they have no business profiting from it a second (and more) time. That's like taxing you multiple times on the same thing, for the same reason. What did they do to 'earn' that second sale? Nothing. And you're assuming that everyone that buys used would buy new, which is so not the case. Should we also bind films to specific DVD/BR players, then?
    This kind of crap is starting to run rampant, and attitudes like "well, I don't like it, but I guess it's how things are, now" really don't help at all.
    And regarding your last sentence, let me just say this: D3 physical copy: €40; D3 digital copy (from Blizz!): €60. I rest my case.
    The giant videogame companies are run by greedy bastards who'll do anything to get an extra buck. We don't need to help them do that by agreeing with increasingly draconian measures like this.

    @Drol: I am angry at Blizzard for doing the same thing. An online-only SP game is ridiculous, and has no sound reasoning behind it except for the usual fear-mongering "oh the pirates!!".
  • #13
    Quote from maka

    Quote from Tempest07

    I'm not a big console fan, it's the limited controls that I hate the most... it was fun growing up on a console, but ever since I got into computer games, I've never really looked back at console. I even have a PS3 with 0 games... I just use it for Netflix and a cheap storage drive and blue ray player, haha.

    I think it is a smart move to stop the use of used games... developers make no money on those games... If one GameStop had 1 copy of Red Dead Redemption, and someone played it, beat it, done with it, traded it in for something else, and another kid comes in and buys that used copy, does the same thing, over and over... multiple customers played off one game, and the developers only get paid for that one copy... the rest just goes right to GameStop. Which is unfortunate.

    This will bring money back to developers, I think it's a good move. Pretty soon everything will be bought online through an account like Steam is what I'm guessing... way cheaper for developers to send you a file than to send you a DVD copy of the game.

    -Temp

    Are you kidding me? The developers already made money off that one copy, they have no business profiting from it a second (and more) time. That's like taxing you multiple times on the same thing, for the same reason. What did they do to 'earn' that second sale? Nothing. And you're assuming that everyone that buys used would buy new, which is so not the case. Should we also bind films to specific DVD/BR players, then?
    This kind of crap is starting to run rampant, and attitudes like "well, I don't like it, but I guess it's how things are, now" really don't help at all.
    And regarding your last sentence, let me just say this: D3 physical copy: €40; D3 digital copy (from Blizz!): €60. I rest my case.
    The giant videogame companies are run by greedy bastards who'll do anything to get an extra buck. We don't need to help them do that by agreeing with increasingly draconian measures like this.

    @Drol: I am angry at Blizzard for doing the same thing. An online-only SP game is ridiculous, and has no sound reasoning behind it except for the usual fear-mongering "oh the pirates!!".

    Okay, that's like someone buying one album from a band, and then that person putting it on his playlist/collection, then trading it to a friend, and that person does the same, and over and over and over... the band gets profit from 1 sold album, yet 100 people are listening to it... how is that fair? Those 100 people should just go buy the album.

    They have no right profiting off a second copy? Are you kidding me? It's ALL their right to make money off the game they spent years to develop... why wouldn't they have rights to that?
    Developers don't make any money with used games being bought/sold... I'm not saying they should make money off used copies... I'm saying that they should stop used copies from being distributed, and instead, if people want the game, they have to buy it...

    Lastly, I don't have a "I don't like it, but that's how things are" attitude... I have a "give money to the people who made the product" attitude.

    Piracy of software cost software companies over 50 billion dollars within 2 years. (That's $50,000,000,000.00) And you call them greedy? It is estimated out of all the software in every computer in the world, 45% of all that software is pirated. So those companies are automatically profiting 45% less than they should, because of these dumb people. It's these "customers" that are greedy, wanting something, but not willing to pay for it. "oh the pirates"? Grow up. These people try to make a living doing this. They depend on sells.... and GameStop, places that trade/sell used games, and piracy are ruining that...
    But who cares right? Just keep buying games... eventually it will impact the gaming industry enough that software companies will stop producing games at a high rate, and there will be just a few games on the shelf... then we'll see who's bitching.

    -Temp
  • #14
    Completely agree with Tempest basically: on one hand i don't really care, i simply don't play consoles. Was indeed fun growing up with it, but now the games just aren't for me. Controllers are a handicap compared to mouse+keyboard, PC games generally have better multiplayer options (mostly in the sense of massive online worlds, not better 2/3-player options). I also simply like being able to do other things on my PC while gaming: check my email, facebook, check other random websites, such as fansites like these ;) listen music on my PC while gaming, list goes on really, i mean there's just so many things i do on my PC while gaming which i can't do on a console.


    Other than that, i think the "account" system where you register your key on your account and only you can play it is a good system, yes, we'd all like a world where everything is free, but it just DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT. It really just doesn't, and that's a fact people will need to realise. Once more: EVERYONE would love to get their shit free, and lend from whoever they want whenever they want, it just cannot be, because indeed you're taking away income off the people producing these games.

    Now, the situation with Blizzard for example charging more for a digital copy than what you'd pay in a shop (where you even skip one part of the chain, and thus don't need to pay a cut to the shop) is something totally different i, too, cannot get my head around. I'd LOVE to see a logical explanation on that one, because without a good explanation it's very baffling indeed.
  • #15
    Quote from Tempest07

    Okay, that's like someone buying one album from a band, and then that person putting it on his playlist/collection, then trading it to a friend, and that person does the same, and over and over and over... the band gets profit from 1 sold album, yet 100 people are listening to it... how is that fair? Those 100 people should just go buy the album.

    I don't quite get what you mean by 'playlist/collection'. If you mean mp3, then your example doesn't apply, because the album is being 'used' by many people at once, while the used game is only being used by one person at a time. If I buy an album, listen to it for years, then find out I don't like it anymore, why shouldn't I be allowed to sell it? It's of no use to me.

    Quote from Tempest07

    They have no right profiting off a second copy? Are you kidding me? It's ALL their right to make money off the game they spent years to develop... why wouldn't they have rights to that?
    Developers don't make any money with used games being bought/sold... I'm not saying they should make money off used copies... I'm saying that they should stop used copies from being distributed, and instead, if people want the game, they have to buy it...

    It's not a second copy, it's the same copy! Only one user is using it at any given time.

    Quote from Tempest07

    Lastly, I don't have a "I don't like it, but that's how things are" attitude... I have a "give money to the people who made the product" attitude.

    That money was already given to them when I bought the new game. Now, it's 10 years later and I have no use for that game. I have every right to sell it.

    Quote from Tempest07

    Piracy of software cost software companies over 50 billion dollars within 2 years. (That's $50,000,000,000.00) And you call them greedy? It is estimated out of all the software in every computer in the world, 45% of all that software is pirated. So those companies are automatically profiting 45% less than they should, because of these dumb people. It's these "customers" that are greedy, wanting something, but not willing to pay for it. "oh the pirates"? Grow up. These people try to make a living doing this. They depend on sells.... and GameStop, places that trade/sell used games, and piracy are ruining that...
    But who cares right? Just keep buying games... eventually it will impact the gaming industry enough that software companies will stop producing games at a high rate, and there will be just a few games on the shelf... then we'll see who's bitching.

    -Temp

    Now you're just rambling. Go check out the profits of the major VG companies and then we'll talk.
    45% of software is pirated so companies are losing 45% of their profit? That's assuming that, if there was no piracy, every 'pirate' would buy every product they have pirated, which is SOOOOOOOOO far from the truth that I won't even wast my time explaining it.

    And by the way, that kind of logic can be applied to everything. You can't buy used furniture, have to buy new one; can't buy used books, have to buy new ones; and why are you buying that used car? Go buy a new one!...you see where this is going?
  • #16
    if it gets rid of God-aweful companies like Gamestop then i'm all for it.
    Remember the String of Ears

    "to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
  • #17
    What game can you possibly sell that is 10 years old that people are still interested in? I'm not talking about 10 year old games... If I walked into a GameStop and tried to sell some old N64 game, I doubt they would even buy it... What are you talking about? I'm talking about people buying Skyrim, playing it for 100 hours straight, then selling it back. Now someone else buys that game as a USED copy for a slightly discounted rate (about $5 or $10 bucks knocked off the original price)... does Bethesda Softworks make profit on that sell? No they don't. Is that fair to Bethesda? Not really... why does GameStop get $50 dollars for a USED copy, and they sell a NEW copy for $60? GameStop didn't write the scripts, create the texture maps, record the voice dialog, put in hundreds and hundreds of hours, and years and years of work and time into that project, why are they entitled to Bethesda's earnings? Not only that... but selling the game at 83% of a NEW copy is just stupid... all they had to do was put the game back into the box and put it on the shelf. They don't have to pay for anything besides the one employee in the back of the store...


    While many publishers and developers have come out against the sale of used games, there is a case to be made that their effect is not as detrimental as opponents would have you believe. It's entirely possible that someone buys and sells only used games, never spending a dollar that ends up in the hands of those who made them.


    Even if they did did restrict second hand games, smaller developers would be able to thrive in the competitive scene a little more easily. The small developers have a chance to profit on their games, rather than just getting cut out. Companies like GameStop, Amazon, Blockbuster, and all those other stores just ruin the up-and-coming companies from even existing, and they slow down and damage the profitability of even large developers and publishers.

    Tons of companies are moving towards this new business model... it's safer, more secure, easier to manage and maintain, and is more cost-effective. Look at iTunes... same thing... look at Steam... same thing... it's been around for a long time now... whether you realize that or not... and more and more software is going with this purchase system... whether you like it or not, I would suggest you get used to it, because it's going to be the 'new' way of software purchases.

    This can even make the cost of the games go down... less cost for the publishers, less shelf life... you might see new games cost less with this new system in place... time will tell...

    I know what you're saying about buying something, and owning it... even owning the right to sell it later... (like a used car). But software is not the same thing... they have been struggling with problems since software became popular (poor Adobe). Yes you use iTunes, you can do what you will with iTunes, but you own the rights to play the music, not to share it, or distribute it... and you'll own the rights to your Playstation 4 game, to play it, not to copy it, or trade it...

    Just like Diablo 2... you had rights to play the game, but you weren't allowed to sell items... the items on your character are rights of Blizzard Entertainment, and you have no rights to copy/sell/distribute those items... (Of course 3rd party programs worked around this by saying they weren't "selling" the items, they were only "transferring them" from one character to another, and you're paying for that transfer "service.")

    -Temp
  • #18
    Some certain consoles are really not working for me as I like few ones really capable of damaging my hard drive as well; therefore I show less interest in games these days.
  • #19
    Mara, I think you are totally off, Temp, I think you're kinda off.

    Temp,
    I think selling physical used games is fine. I don't think there is anything wrong with it, morally or otherwise. Why? Because you bought it under no contract you couldn't sell it again. Just because it might suck for the developers doesn't make it 'wrong'. It's as wrong as reselling used furniture. Yes, it is the same thing.

    When you get into the realm of digitally distributed software that you make purchases agreeing to certain rules, I think that's FINE too. Because you can always vote with your money if you're willing to pay or not. If they say "If you want to play this game, you can't sell any items for money." Then I think that's FINE, too.

    Maka

    You have a very hippie (the kind from South Park) view when it comes to corporations. You're making yourself a victim, and act like they're all vampires coming to suck your money away. When, in fact you have the right to give any of it to anyone you choose.

    I've graduated with a Degree in Finance and International Business, and the FIRST thing you learn in any business class is that it exists to make money. You and others might argue they should be around just to make you happy and take as little money as possible. I'm sorry to break it to you, but companies need money to survive, and the more the better. Really. They need it to develop new products for the masses to enjoy.

    Not all corps are bad, and I'm not insinuating that you believe that, although I do assume you lean more that way.

    Honestly, if you don't like it - hit em where it hurts most; their wallet. Don't purchase any permanently tied games. I know that sounds like an easy argument, but it couldn't be anymore true. Vote with your money by purchasing from producers that share your own values and beliefs.

    This is why I think Steam is GREAT for everyone. Steam only takes a small percentage, much less than click and/or mortar retailers do. That means more profits in the developer's pockets, which is a GOOD thing, and they have nice sales once in a while. What I'm against is digital copies costing the same as a physical copy. THAT is fuckin' stupid, I don't need to explain why.
    "The Unchosen" Pain of Admirance Sigil (For those without -Feat of Strength-):

    http://i.imgur.com/O7Oeo.png

    I received TWO beta keys. Eat it and like it.
  • #20
    Quote from Tempest07

    Okay, that's like someone buying one album from a band, and then that person putting it on his playlist/collection, then trading it to a friend, and that person does the same, and over and over and over... the band gets profit from 1 sold album, yet 100 people are listening to it... how is that fair? Those 100 people should just go buy the album.

    Well that's maybe just too different a scenario to overshadow your point. For one thing, things like used DVD's and used games have always been in the market as a way of giving those products a second chance where someone previously didn't want it anymore.

    And usually used products aren't as available fast enough for people to say, "Well, gosh, I really want D3, but I'll just wait till I can get a used copy cause it will be cheaper." No, in fact what's more likely to happen is when a product is good enough, people want it new and they want it now. Used merchandise doesn't start getting as widely circulated until later after sales of the new copy start slowing down anyway or starts to go on sale cause it's been on shelves for so long. And worrying about people exchanging physical copies? That's just stupid. Your real problem is how people will try to pirate digital copies. But for a lot of people, especially doing stuff on a console, there's either the lack of technical knowledge to mod your console to just rip the game onto a harddrive and not require the disc somehow, or it's simply not worth it.

    I mean, ultimately, only allowing new games per person would save some money, sure. Be the amounts of money saved with such a philosophy hardly seem worth the trade off of ill will received from the consumer. And consumers should be taken seriously over stuff like this because the very measure acknowledges our power as consumers.

    I just think that a guy finishing a game on his Xbox, then loaning it to a friend seems like a negligible loss of profit. Most people willing to wait for another person to play a game...then borrowing it....this is an indication they don't feel too strongly about the game in the first place and were unlikely ever to pay for it. I'll give an example even.

    My friend recently loaned me Assassin's Creed 1 and 2 for Xbox 360. I never played them prior, was only mildly interested in them, and never really considered buying them. I think had I never played them I was content to never really shell out the money to start from the beginning. But years later after the release of Assassin's Creed 1 and 2, I've now played them only because someone was willing to loan me their copy, and now I've become interested in them. And now I'm far less likely to be willing to wait to just borrow the new one that comes out. It's more likely I'm gonna wanna get it as soon as I can instead of waiting to borrow it.

    But all this new found interest in the AC games would never have happened for me if I hadn't had that chance to eventually borrow the first two games from a friend. It was this far down the road for me that I didn't see myself willing to buy AC 1 and 2 brand new. And I don't think my case is exceptional either. I think a lot of people get into games this way: by having it loaned to them or buying it used, deciding then they really like it, and choose to get more into that series of games. And yes, some games are stand alone games that don't have sequels or reboots, but the logic is still the same.

    Simply put: used games or borrowed games are simply an alternative way for someone to experience a game for the first time that they easily might not have otherwise at the standard full price.
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