I still don't see how if something is four light years away from our planet, and you travel at the speed of light from our planet to and from, how it's a decade and not 8 years. :|
Here's a section of The Elegant Universe explaining more about this. Muons are basically heavy electrons.
"When sitting at rest in the laboratory, muons disintegrate by a process akin to radioactive decay, in an average of about two millionths of a second. This disintegration is an experimental fact supported by an enormous amount of evidence. It's as if the muon lives its life with a gun to its head; when it reaches two millionths of a second in age, it pulls the trigger and explodes apart into electrons and neutrinos. But if these muons are not sitting at rest in the lab and instead are traveling through a particle accelerator that boosts them to just shy of light-speed, their average life expectancy as measured by scientists in the lab increases dramatically. This really happens. At 667 million miles per hour (about 99.5 percent of light speed), the muon lifetime is seen to increase by a factor of about ten. The explanation, according to special relativity, is that "wristwatches" worn by the muons tick much more slowly than the clocks in the lab, so long after the lab clocks say that the muons should have pulled their triggers and exploded, the watches on the fast-moving muons have yet to reach doom time."
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I still don't see how if something is four light years away from our planet, and you travel at the speed of light from our planet to and from, how it's a decade and not 8 years. :|
Actually, if you traveled at the speed of light, even for a "second", you would reach "infinity". You're basing your logic in Newton laws (the physics we all know and use) but they are not exactly accurate. They work in everyday situations, but if you try using them with near-light speeds they are useless. This is because Newton did his research thinking that time was invariant (that's the word?), but actually it's tied to space, in what it's called time-space (yes, that exists, it's not sci-fi). This means that time depends on speed.
An example: Let's say you are traveling in a "plane" of some sort, at, let's say, 99% the speed of light, and you have a watch with you. For an outside observer, your watch would be ticking reeeally slowly, something like 1 second per 1 minute in his watch. But for you, your seconds are ticking fine, but everything in the outside is going reeeally fast (and not because you are going fast), maybe even a whole minute goes by when in your watch it was just a second.
It's hard to understand because it's not how we think time would work. If you want, do some research on Einstein Relativity, I find it a really interesting topic
I still don't see how if something is four light years away from our planet, and you travel at the speed of light from our planet to and from, how it's a decade and not 8 years. :|
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"They're moving so fast they're going slower than us in time."
That's contradictory.
Time can't "seem" to be passing a certain way. What I'm reading sounds more like creating parallel existances or something. Time can't advance at regular speed for one people, and then advance slower for another.
And if light years don't actually measure the distance the light legitimately travels in a year (if something is traveling the speed of light, then it will travel the same distance), then why do we use it?
.... the only way I will accept this is if Michio Kaku tells me so. (I'm not saying it's not true, I'm just saying it sounds completely retarded. lol)
"They're moving so fast they're going slower than us in time."
That's contradictory.
Now it isn't. Time actually does go slower the faster you move, regardless of whether it makes sense of not.
This effect is also reproduced in intense gravitational fields, such as around a Black Hole or a Neutron Star. The closer you get to a massive object, the slower time passes. Since space and time can both be described as one measurement, spacetime, heavy distortions in time space affect the objects place in time as well.
This is why you also weight more the faster you move. And that's the second problem of light-speed travel; the weight of objects with mass will reach an infinite weight upon achieving top speed.
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PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
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From the wiki article on the original topic under assumptions:
3. Not dying some finite number of times (perhaps in parallel universes) constitutes immortality.
I dunno about you guys but this isn't my definition of immortality. I'm pretty sure in everyday life I have avoided dying some finite number of times. Though even if I avoid it an infinite number of times this doesn't imply I will avoid death forever.
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Apparently freezing yourself is fatal. HOW ARE YOU PEOPLE COPING?!
If you're in a spaceship orbiting earth (less gravity) then time goes slower then when you're standing on the ground (more gravity). This is not theory seeing that whoever is in control of satellites has to take this difference in timespeed into account for things like GPS to work accurately. Different aimals also have a different experience of time, therefor it being subjective.
Well, I don't think there's any transitional point in time. You're talking about instances in time, right? Time is one of those things that we consider infinitely small, I think. So I'd agree with the latter sentence you said.
You are forever at any given point of being, there can be nothing (forever) if there is nothing (to be forever).
This sounds like the old analogy of the turtle beating Achilles in a race.
Let's say I am alive right now, but dead in five minutes. Now obviously, you can keep splitting the time between now and five minutes into ever smaller pieces, and you can accelerate me to close to the speed of light, doesn't change the fact that I died in a finite amount of time.
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Maybe, but how do you define "dying"? If you can't ever pinpoint this exact defining moment then maybe from your point of view you never die?
Well ok, dying is a bad example in this case.
propose that we're talking about, falling asleep and waking up. Obviously I fall asleep, and obviously I wake up. I don't know if there's en exact moment when I fall asleep, but I still do it nonetheless.
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There is a transition between being awake and falling asleep (in fact if i concentrate i can experience this).
Then why does dying lack such a transition?
Let's see. I get shot and my lung is punctuated. I'll feel a lot of pain, and I'll die relatively soon. Along the way, my brain consecutively gets less and less oxygen, and eventually I lose consciousness. Then my organs stop functioning, and I reach a point from which modern medical aid cannot bring me back.
I don't know where I can actually be called dead, it's just a gray area. I mean, my heart can stop, but doctors can get it to beat again. In the future, I'm sure my brain can be out for several minutes and then they can restart it. I'll get brain damage, but I'll be back alive.
And even if we were never to die, in a dying moment, wouldn't that suck to be stuck in a moment of near death forever?
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So what would seem like no more than an hour for everyone else, you would experience well over that during your slowed state of dying? In other words, people will see you dying quickly, but to you it will be alot of fast movement on their part, and you at your supposed normal speed, based on your perception of time?
Nope, because the person who is slowed down won't even notice it. From his perspective, every one else will be going ultra-fast. From his perspective, he'll die just as fast.:)
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Well damn, i forgot that Ivaron.
Well as I read the argument, it didn't actually have anything to do wit hrelativity at all, meaning time dilation of any sort in that sense wasn't an issue.
Your point however seems a bit strange Ivaron. You say everyone else would never see him die. Now we obviously see people dying all the time, so the slow-down in Doppel's example would have to be from the perspective of the dyer, otherwise it doesn't make any sense.
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Well, the relativity theory could still be wrong. It assumes that the laws of physics are the same throughout the entire Universe, and that the speed of light likewise is the same throughout the universe.
Well, the relativity theory could still be wrong. It assumes that the laws of physics are the same throughout the entire Universe, and that the speed of light likewise is the same throughout the universe.
Well, seeing as everything looks basically the same in every direction, it's a safe assumption that they are similar.
Galaxies form everywhere there is matter, and there are two dominant shapes: elliptical and spiral. if gravity hadn't worked the same everywhere, we shouldn't be getting similarly shaped galaxies everywhere.
Likewise, stars form everywhere, and all share similar traits. Giants and Supergiants are the same everywhere, as are stars along the main sequence etc. A stars life and structure is highly dependant on how subatomic particles correlate to each other, which would also assume that the electromagnetic and strong force are the same throughout the Universe.
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Thats how i look at it. There simply IS-NOT-A-WAY for us humans to damn find out "the truth" about "everything".
Or at least during my lifetime... i guess.
Its probably that our brains are just so limited.
"Logic" says that "everything must have a reason" or cause or whatever but that basically goes on "forever"...
Uhh... I dont know. Thinking about such things is fascinating but never leads anyway and chances are, you'll loose your mind. LOL
Uhhhh what he said.
I don't really believe time travel is possible. I don't think "time" is anything we can control.
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I still don't see how if something is four light years away from our planet, and you travel at the speed of light from our planet to and from, how it's a decade and not 8 years. :|
CyberPunk RP Nexus
"When sitting at rest in the laboratory, muons disintegrate by a process akin to radioactive decay, in an average of about two millionths of a second. This disintegration is an experimental fact supported by an enormous amount of evidence. It's as if the muon lives its life with a gun to its head; when it reaches two millionths of a second in age, it pulls the trigger and explodes apart into electrons and neutrinos. But if these muons are not sitting at rest in the lab and instead are traveling through a particle accelerator that boosts them to just shy of light-speed, their average life expectancy as measured by scientists in the lab increases dramatically. This really happens. At 667 million miles per hour (about 99.5 percent of light speed), the muon lifetime is seen to increase by a factor of about ten. The explanation, according to special relativity, is that "wristwatches" worn by the muons tick much more slowly than the clocks in the lab, so long after the lab clocks say that the muons should have pulled their triggers and exploded, the watches on the fast-moving muons have yet to reach doom time."
-Hunter S. Thompson
TED . LEAP . Woot . MF
Actually, if you traveled at the speed of light, even for a "second", you would reach "infinity". You're basing your logic in Newton laws (the physics we all know and use) but they are not exactly accurate. They work in everyday situations, but if you try using them with near-light speeds they are useless. This is because Newton did his research thinking that time was invariant (that's the word?), but actually it's tied to space, in what it's called time-space (yes, that exists, it's not sci-fi). This means that time depends on speed.
An example: Let's say you are traveling in a "plane" of some sort, at, let's say, 99% the speed of light, and you have a watch with you. For an outside observer, your watch would be ticking reeeally slowly, something like 1 second per 1 minute in his watch. But for you, your seconds are ticking fine, but everything in the outside is going reeeally fast (and not because you are going fast), maybe even a whole minute goes by when in your watch it was just a second.
It's hard to understand because it's not how we think time would work. If you want, do some research on Einstein Relativity, I find it a really interesting topic
That's contradictory.
Time can't "seem" to be passing a certain way. What I'm reading sounds more like creating parallel existances or something. Time can't advance at regular speed for one people, and then advance slower for another.
And if light years don't actually measure the distance the light legitimately travels in a year (if something is traveling the speed of light, then it will travel the same distance), then why do we use it?
.... the only way I will accept this is if Michio Kaku tells me so. (I'm not saying it's not true, I'm just saying it sounds completely retarded. lol)
CyberPunk RP Nexus
This effect is also reproduced in intense gravitational fields, such as around a Black Hole or a Neutron Star. The closer you get to a massive object, the slower time passes. Since space and time can both be described as one measurement, spacetime, heavy distortions in time space affect the objects place in time as well.
This is why you also weight more the faster you move. And that's the second problem of light-speed travel; the weight of objects with mass will reach an infinite weight upon achieving top speed.
^ He explains it so much better ^
Also, good explanation, Phrozen. That makes more sense.
For future reference, stop using the watch example, people. It makes no sense. XD
CyberPunk RP Nexus
3. Not dying some finite number of times (perhaps in parallel universes) constitutes immortality.
I dunno about you guys but this isn't my definition of immortality. I'm pretty sure in everyday life I have avoided dying some finite number of times. Though even if I avoid it an infinite number of times this doesn't imply I will avoid death forever.
Ah, I see what you're getting at, now.
CyberPunk RP Nexus
Let's say I am alive right now, but dead in five minutes. Now obviously, you can keep splitting the time between now and five minutes into ever smaller pieces, and you can accelerate me to close to the speed of light, doesn't change the fact that I died in a finite amount of time.
propose that we're talking about, falling asleep and waking up. Obviously I fall asleep, and obviously I wake up. I don't know if there's en exact moment when I fall asleep, but I still do it nonetheless.
Let's see. I get shot and my lung is punctuated. I'll feel a lot of pain, and I'll die relatively soon. Along the way, my brain consecutively gets less and less oxygen, and eventually I lose consciousness. Then my organs stop functioning, and I reach a point from which modern medical aid cannot bring me back.
I don't know where I can actually be called dead, it's just a gray area. I mean, my heart can stop, but doctors can get it to beat again. In the future, I'm sure my brain can be out for several minutes and then they can restart it. I'll get brain damage, but I'll be back alive.
And even if we were never to die, in a dying moment, wouldn't that suck to be stuck in a moment of near death forever?
Your point however seems a bit strange Ivaron. You say everyone else would never see him die. Now we obviously see people dying all the time, so the slow-down in Doppel's example would have to be from the perspective of the dyer, otherwise it doesn't make any sense.
CyberPunk RP Nexus
Galaxies form everywhere there is matter, and there are two dominant shapes: elliptical and spiral. if gravity hadn't worked the same everywhere, we shouldn't be getting similarly shaped galaxies everywhere.
Likewise, stars form everywhere, and all share similar traits. Giants and Supergiants are the same everywhere, as are stars along the main sequence etc. A stars life and structure is highly dependant on how subatomic particles correlate to each other, which would also assume that the electromagnetic and strong force are the same throughout the Universe.
Of course I could be wrong, but I doubt it.
Uhhhh what he said.
I don't really believe time travel is possible. I don't think "time" is anything we can control.
"Losers always whine about their best, winners go home and Fvck the prom queen."