Yeah, that was a really great way of thinking of it. Plus, wouldn't it be awesome for the US to be recognized for having the scientist(s) who discovered the cure to some major disease or some such? I mean, since most of the world seems to hate us, I'm sure that would help boost our own morale and global standing.
And at Doppelganger: Isn't it hilarious that normal people like us on an online forum board can rationalize things logically like that, but, for some reason, government can't? Oh well, maybe it'll be better this time around, lol :rolleyes:
Lobbyism, media coverage, political gain, public opinion, monetary benefits etc... There are a thousand reasons things like these go wrong in real life.
But we internet-people, we've got nothing to lose and nothing to gain by this conversation besides acquiring a greater understanding. That's why it's easier for us.
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
As well, as adding to the destructive nature of everything on that list, as well as several more.
Quote from "PhrozenDragon" »
Exacly. Even if a lot of people agree we shouldn't research it and develop it, there are six billion people in over hundreds of different nations. Someone will research this, and the best way to control something and prevent it from being misused is to understand it, which will require researching it.
While I agree that with the amount of people of on our planet, this is something that is going to be researched, either way... as it already has been (and has never stopped) in many countries. I think uniting ourselves (the world) to research this, will only increase the speed of which this knowledge is attained, which will in turn decrease the chances we have of properly regulating it. I think many people have different interpretations of the word "misused"
I ask you this, If the atom bomb was not researched and developed to the point it is at, would it they have been dropped on Hiroshima? I am sure someone, or some team, somewhere would have figured it out any way, but perhaps it would not have happened until (M.A.D) agreement was in place, hence preventing (regulating) the use of them. This is just one example, And I am sure there are a wealth of counter arguments against that statement too. To say that something will be controlled just because we understand it... does not always apply to the situation though. Sometimes it is a good idea, to wait until we can better handle/regulate the use of such consequences that arise when diving into the unknown. I feel this is one of those times.
Heh, I think that is a very naive statement, dopple.
The ability to ask "what if" has always been a positive thing, and therefore should never cease to exist. Especially when dealing with scientific research....
All I got to say about stem cell research...it would have saved my dad's life. I may not approve of how they go about it, but the fact is, it saves lives and one of those lives, could have been my dad's.
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Those before me shall quiver in my wake as I unleash the fury within!
but seriously as long as it doesn't lead to anything ridiculous such as human cloning (like Edi mentioned) or the splicing/mutating of humans, i'm good. the future will be fun!
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----------------------- "What man, anywhere under Heaven's high arch, has fought in such darkness, endured more misery or been harder pressed?" -Beowulf
I ask you this, If the atom bomb was not researched and developed to the point it is at, would it they have been dropped on Hiroshima?
Considering that the bomb was really researched by guys who flew Germany... Germans could have as well had it first.
It's a pretty bad idea to say "If X was not invented". Because there are so many possible consequences behind that, it could get worse. It's like "What if Hitler wasn't there." then, maybe Stalin would take over the world. You never know. Bad argument.
What you're saying reminds me of the doctrine "The less people know, the better." And I'm quite against that doctrine. I want to know everything.
I'm not saying that the ability to ask that question isn't of importance because it is, hypothetical questions you can't ever answer just shouldn't affect whether or not to research something scientifically (apart from the research itself being highly dangerous obviously, which is a risk factor you need to calculate first).
Exactly my thoughts.... I think we need to calculate this risk factor (consequences) to the best of our abilities, before we proceed with this research. Right now I do not think that they have done this properly.....
That being said, ironically I now believe that we are going to have to proceed with phase 1 (world wide unison) on SCR (stem cell research) or most of the world anyway, to properly analyze and predict these risks. This may even require that scientific research begins.... but does only that. I think we should only do enough research, until we are at the point when we can come to these conclusions, and if it is indeed thought too be to dangerous, they shall shift their efforts away from research and toward worldwide regulation... Because we know that people are not going to stop experimenting, it would definitely help us dramatically if some barriers, and enforcement policies, for violations of the regulatory system were set in place, that the entire world was made to agree upon.
I would like to think it would be nice if they could get SCR to the point where they could save/rehabilitate current lives, and no further. (punishable by swift enforcement) It is a very sad thought that many lives have perished because SCR was not pursued in the past. To me though, it is a far more disturbing thought that many more lives could have perished in the future if it was.
Exactly my thoughts.... I think we need to calculate this risk factor (consequences) to the best of our abilities, before we proceed with this research. Right now I do not think that they have done this properly.....
That being said, ironically I now believe that we are going to have to proceed with phase 1 (world wide unison) on SCH (stem cell research) or most of the world anyway, to properly analyze and predict these risks. This may even require that scientific research begins.... but does only that. I think we should only do enough research, until we are at the point when we can come to these conclusions, and if it is indeed thought too be to dangerous, they shall shift their efforts away from research and to regulation, rather than to more research... Because we know that people are not going to stop experimenting, it would definitely help us dramatically if some barriers, and enforcement policies, for violations of the regulatory system were set in place, that the entire world was made to agree upon.
man what a confusing read. the i and we switches to they and their...but anyway,
there's no way to enforce any international law.
but why does that matter? scr wont make superhumans.
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Remember the String of Ears
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
Right, but most nations have the means to take the information and knowledge from that research and twist it into something destructive and menacing.
That is when we need to focus our efforts on swift enforcement polices, and take action.
Metallica Lines: "They think our heads are in their hands, but violent use brings violent plans" "They see it right, they see it well, but they think this saves from our hell"
I know they were referring to something a little different, but this applies to my view on the situation.
No matter what the world tries to enforce..., people are going to use this technology and knowledge for bad things...., very bad things.... the only thing we (as a planet) can do, is try to the best of our abilities to stop them. Protect the good parts, and banish the bad, I know realize this (violators should be punished severely) if caught.. I will list a few of the other things that I consider to be violations when I return from hockey. There definitely is good in this research... I am not denying that... I realized that, back when I was in high school a few years ago, for the longest time though, I have been stressing myself over the consequences of SCR....
most nations have more pressing issues at the moment that to blow millions on scr. which still has many leaps to go before it can be widely accepted as safe and ethical. currently certain stem cells tested in lab rats have something like a 50% rate of turning cancerous.
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Remember the String of Ears
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
I am still compiling a list of these consequences, I don't know when it will be finished, probably sometime this week.
I will say this though, the nations with "more pressing matters" are not going to be the ones spending millions (or more) you should know that..... these nations are likely going to be the ones that are abusing SCR.
The nations which spend the most money developing this scientific research will likely be the ones to attempt to enforce these regulations.
(on a side note, sometimes you gots to read over what people write a few times to fully understand or grasp what they are trying to say, (like I had to with your last post) ) so sorry if that was hard for you to understand.
This is all pointless without a single argument of what's so bad about the stemcells, exactly.
thats what im pointing out, he keeps saying there are these 'negative' consequences, but has yet to present one.
Nono, i meant literally the risk factor of doing the research (as in the ridiculous controversy around the atom smasher, remember?), not the consequence of what that knowledge might be used for.
the conservative and the religious throwing a riot? whats to fear?
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Remember the String of Ears
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
thats what im pointing out, he keeps saying there are these 'negative' consequences, but has yet to present one.
the conservative and the religious throwing a riot? whats to fear?
I believe that the "negative" consequences that everyone seems to be throwing around is that either A) we are doing the Christian god's work or that we can clone Hitler or an entire army. Neither of which has much, if any, scientific standing.
At least, that's what I see from there side. All I see personally are good things coming from this...
I support Stem Cell research, because for me its pros outweigh its cons. Also, I just want to say that I've got absolutely no knowledge in this research whatsoever.
As far as I can see, these are the cons:
- Religious fanaticism will increase. More people will be inclined to say that science is all about 'playing God'.
- Maybe stem cells will enhance the human physiology, and use them to bad ends.. Probably too sci-fi.
- Humans will live longer. This might seem like a good thing, but it will get pretty crowded. And where do we get the food from?
And the pros:
- Humans will live healthier, so humanity will be more productive. Previously disabled people can work so less people have to look after them.
- The enhancements can be used for good. (yes, it's the sci fi approach again)
- Religious fanaticism will increase. More people will be inclined to say that science is all about 'playing God'.
That's scary... And not just the "evil towel heads" as the Islamic religion has come to be known by the religious fanatics in this country...
Quote from "Shatterer" »
- Maybe stem cells will enhance the human physiology, and use them to bad ends.. Probably too sci-fi.
Yea, probably too sci-fi... But all too often Science Fiction has become Science Fact... So who knows...
Quote from "Shatterer" »
- Humans will live longer. This might seem like a good thing, but it will get pretty crowded. And where do we get the food from?
If we can make it to a Type 1 civilization, this won't be much of a problem...
Quote from "Shatterer" »
- Humans will live healthier, so humanity will be more productive. Previously disabled people can work so less people have to look after them.
- The enhancements can be used for good. (yes, it's the sci fi approach again)
Both are good.
So in conclusion, only negative thing really is that it will give fuel to the religious extremists, of every religion... Though, they would find something to be pissed about anyway... So nothing new there...
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But we internet-people, we've got nothing to lose and nothing to gain by this conversation besides acquiring a greater understanding. That's why it's easier for us.
As well, as adding to the destructive nature of everything on that list, as well as several more.
While I agree that with the amount of people of on our planet, this is something that is going to be researched, either way... as it already has been (and has never stopped) in many countries. I think uniting ourselves (the world) to research this, will only increase the speed of which this knowledge is attained, which will in turn decrease the chances we have of properly regulating it. I think many people have different interpretations of the word "misused"
I ask you this, If the atom bomb was not researched and developed to the point it is at, would it they have been dropped on Hiroshima? I am sure someone, or some team, somewhere would have figured it out any way, but perhaps it would not have happened until (M.A.D) agreement was in place, hence preventing (regulating) the use of them. This is just one example, And I am sure there are a wealth of counter arguments against that statement too. To say that something will be controlled just because we understand it... does not always apply to the situation though. Sometimes it is a good idea, to wait until we can better handle/regulate the use of such consequences that arise when diving into the unknown. I feel this is one of those times.
The ability to ask "what if" has always been a positive thing, and therefore should never cease to exist. Especially when dealing with scientific research....
but seriously as long as it doesn't lead to anything ridiculous such as human cloning (like Edi mentioned) or the splicing/mutating of humans, i'm good. the future will be fun!
"What man, anywhere under Heaven's high arch, has fought in such darkness, endured more misery or been harder pressed?"
-Beowulf
It's a pretty bad idea to say "If X was not invented". Because there are so many possible consequences behind that, it could get worse. It's like "What if Hitler wasn't there." then, maybe Stalin would take over the world. You never know. Bad argument.
What you're saying reminds me of the doctrine "The less people know, the better." And I'm quite against that doctrine. I want to know everything.
Exactly my thoughts.... I think we need to calculate this risk factor (consequences) to the best of our abilities, before we proceed with this research. Right now I do not think that they have done this properly.....
That being said, ironically I now believe that we are going to have to proceed with phase 1 (world wide unison) on SCR (stem cell research) or most of the world anyway, to properly analyze and predict these risks. This may even require that scientific research begins.... but does only that. I think we should only do enough research, until we are at the point when we can come to these conclusions, and if it is indeed thought too be to dangerous, they shall shift their efforts away from research and toward worldwide regulation... Because we know that people are not going to stop experimenting, it would definitely help us dramatically if some barriers, and enforcement policies, for violations of the regulatory system were set in place, that the entire world was made to agree upon.
I would like to think it would be nice if they could get SCR to the point where they could save/rehabilitate current lives, and no further. (punishable by swift enforcement) It is a very sad thought that many lives have perished because SCR was not pursued in the past. To me though, it is a far more disturbing thought that many more lives could have perished in the future if it was.
there's no way to enforce any international law.
but why does that matter? scr wont make superhumans.
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
You need to re-think this. While they can't be everywhere at once, they sure as hell try.
A good example would be the world wide policy on bomb testing.....
it wouldnt even matter, only a toddlers handful of nations have the ability to do intesive research anyways.
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
That is when we need to focus our efforts on swift enforcement polices, and take action.
Metallica Lines: "They think our heads are in their hands, but violent use brings violent plans" "They see it right, they see it well, but they think this saves from our hell"
I know they were referring to something a little different, but this applies to my view on the situation.
No matter what the world tries to enforce..., people are going to use this technology and knowledge for bad things...., very bad things.... the only thing we (as a planet) can do, is try to the best of our abilities to stop them. Protect the good parts, and banish the bad, I know realize this (violators should be punished severely) if caught.. I will list a few of the other things that I consider to be violations when I return from hockey. There definitely is good in this research... I am not denying that... I realized that, back when I was in high school a few years ago, for the longest time though, I have been stressing myself over the consequences of SCR....
most nations have more pressing issues at the moment that to blow millions on scr. which still has many leaps to go before it can be widely accepted as safe and ethical. currently certain stem cells tested in lab rats have something like a 50% rate of turning cancerous.
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
I will say this though, the nations with "more pressing matters" are not going to be the ones spending millions (or more) you should know that..... these nations are likely going to be the ones that are abusing SCR.
The nations which spend the most money developing this scientific research will likely be the ones to attempt to enforce these regulations.
(on a side note, sometimes you gots to read over what people write a few times to fully understand or grasp what they are trying to say, (like I had to with your last post) ) so sorry if that was hard for you to understand.
the conservative and the religious throwing a riot? whats to fear?
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
I believe that the "negative" consequences that everyone seems to be throwing around is that either A) we are doing the Christian god's work or that we can clone Hitler or an entire army. Neither of which has much, if any, scientific standing.
At least, that's what I see from there side. All I see personally are good things coming from this...
As far as I can see, these are the cons:
- Religious fanaticism will increase. More people will be inclined to say that science is all about 'playing God'.
- Maybe stem cells will enhance the human physiology, and use them to bad ends.. Probably too sci-fi.
- Humans will live longer. This might seem like a good thing, but it will get pretty crowded. And where do we get the food from?
And the pros:
- Humans will live healthier, so humanity will be more productive. Previously disabled people can work so less people have to look after them.
- The enhancements can be used for good. (yes, it's the sci fi approach again)
Join the chat!
That's scary... And not just the "evil towel heads" as the Islamic religion has come to be known by the religious fanatics in this country...
Yea, probably too sci-fi... But all too often Science Fiction has become Science Fact... So who knows...
If we can make it to a Type 1 civilization, this won't be much of a problem...
Both are good.
So in conclusion, only negative thing really is that it will give fuel to the religious extremists, of every religion... Though, they would find something to be pissed about anyway... So nothing new there...