Where is God in the Diablo Universe

  • #101
    I'll say this once:

    If Islam is a hateful religion, then Christianity must worship Diablo himself...
  • #102
    . . . . . .really?

    Atleast christianity dosent kill thousands every week, atleast we dont hide behind the lie that we never did anything bad, atleast we dont kill our own family if they get out of a arranged marriage, do you know muslims have the right to kill one another if a muslim converts religion? Honestly islam is a much more hatful religion than christanity, atleast in today's sence.


    Making Controversial points one post at a time!
  • #103
    I was raised in a christian home. My parents were extreme fundementalists - and my childhood was filled with nightmares and nightsweats from the dreams caused by what I heard and read. Discipline in our home was old testament nature and as profoundly abusive. "Spare the rod and spoil the child." It is a verse that makes me shiver to hear.

    After I managed to gain my freedom (at age 16) I began to clear my head a little, read things that weren't shoved down my throat as the one and only truth. I reread the bible from Genesis to Revelation several times. Each time I produced a list of things that bothered me, seemed contradictory, or was just outright implausible. I was finally convinced that Jehovah was no more real than were Apollo, Zeus, Baal, or Ra.

    I don't believe in God, gods, godlets, goddesses, faeries, pixies, gnomes, dragons, elves, dwarves, wizards, or UFOs. I believe that if someone of Carl Sagan's dedication, reputation, knowledge, and intellect says there is no evidence - then there is no evidence.

    I follow Scientific Pantheism. I do not personify the force or forces of nature into any form of deity. I believe that the awe inspired by nature is far more spiritual that the awe inspired by the crude and unjustifiable antics of the Hebrew god in the old testament, and the conflictual and confusable writings in the new testament.
    "Fiat justitia, ruat caelum"

  • #104
    This thread im convinced was created to stir up $hit. i read the first sentence and knew this. i don't know why it hasn't been closed yet.
  • #105
    This thread has no place here, especially when the OP blatantly stated his motive was to recruit people into Christianity.

    I have a feeling if a thread titled "God Doesn't Exist" or "Praise Allah" popped up, even if it made several of these same points, it would be closed instantly.
  • #106
    Quote from "Obalobex" »
    Evolution is only controversial because it proves many Christian beliefs to be false. Obviously there will always be answers that scientists can't be 100% sure on, but by simply looking at the fossile record one can clearly see progression of species (including our own). Are we supposed to believe that every couple thousand or million years many species simply vanish, and then a slightly more adapt version of that species appears out of nowhere in a similar population? In Great Brittain there was a large white moth that was quite successful in it's area. During the industrial revolution when soot and smoke covered everything, this same moth all of a sudden became black winged instead of white and cammoflauged into the new environment. This is simple genetics and the driving force of evolution: Survival of the fittest, the most beneficial traits or mutations will be passed down (and over time alter/create new species) until the organism is perfectly adapted to its surroundings.

    I don't know much about the Illuminati or the Masons and am definately not preaching their takeover of governments. Many world governments (especially USA) are already subjected to the will of powerful bankers, but please, let's not talk about this issue here. I'm sure there's another thread you could dig up if you really wanted to argue.


    dig up? that's :necro:ing.

    Give me ONE, just ONE example of evolution proving a christian religion wrong. Just one. That is not the reason it is controversial, there are many issues that make it's foundation shaky.

    You say that certain animals go extint and other more improved ones come to take it's place. Tell me, what took the place of the Dodo bird? What WILL take the place of pandas and polar bears?

    You need to understand the difference between evolution and adaptation, the moth in Great Britain is a prime example of adaptations, not mutations. lizards dont mutate or Iguanas for that matter everytime they change color for camouflage.

    And also, you can't redeem and defend something by saying "it cant ALWAYS be 100% right". Thats like saying, "OH OH Noah must not of existed because it would be impossible for the entire world to flood!I know there are some flaws with my theory but im going to just say "i cant always be right" and brush it off"
    You cant hackle someones belief on one thing and not consider the imperfections of another belief.
    "I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
    -Equinox

    "We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
    -Winged
  • #107
    I believe that God is a probability, although I do believe that he MIGHT not exist.

    Furthermore, I don't believe in any organized religion.

    I guess you could call me agnostic.
  • #108
    Quote from "Azoruk" »
    I believe that God is a probability, although I do believe that he MIGHT not exist.

    Furthermore, I don't believe in any organized religion.

    I guess you could call me agnostic.

    Why is it that you dont believe in organized religion?
    "I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
    -Equinox

    "We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
    -Winged
  • #109
    Quote from "Umpa65" »
    Why is it that you dont believe in organized religion?


    Why would I?

    Religion is just a mean to control and manipulate others, regardless of whether or not it benefits society overall.

    If God wanted us to know he exists, he would have made it more obvious.

    Thus, if God exists, he clearly has no intention of letting us know.
  • #110
    Quote from "Umpa65" »

    Give me ONE, just ONE example of evolution proving a christian religion wrong. Just one. That is not the reason it is controversial, there are many issues that make it's foundation shaky.

    I'll give a few:
    - The Bible claims the earth is only a few thousand years old, which the fossil record/carbon dating clearly proves false.
    - Part of the Bible says that God created life perfectly, and it is a belief that new species do not originate and other species do not go extinct.
    - Humans were supposed to be created along with all life at the same time according to the Bible, which is not true.
    - "And on the sixth day, God created man." No life of any kind existed on earth durring the first few billion years, let alone man.
    - Man originated from ancient primates, not created out of thin air.

    Quote from "Umpa65" »

    You say that certain animals go extint and other more improved ones come to take it's place. Tell me, what took the place of the Dodo bird? What WILL take the place of pandas and polar bears?

    No, I'm saying that DOESN'T happen. I'm saying evolution happens. Please read carefully.

    Quote from "Umpa65" »

    You need to understand the difference between evolution and adaptation, the moth in Great Britain is a prime example of adaptations, not mutations. lizards dont mutate or Iguanas for that matter everytime they change color for camouflage.

    Adaptation in the form you are describing is not the same thing. Lizards changing color to blend in to an environment is a defence mechanism they have attained (through evolution). The moth does not have the ability to randomly change color. The species changed its color over generations because those who had been born with black wings survived and replicated easier.

    Quote from "Umpa65" »

    And also, you can't redeem and defend something by saying "it cant ALWAYS be 100% right". Thats like saying, "OH OH Noah must not of existed because it would be impossible for the entire world to flood!I know there are some flaws with my theory but im going to just say "i cant always be right" and brush it off"
    You cant hackle someones belief on one thing and not consider the imperfections of another belief.

    There is a major difference. Christianity and many of the stories, including Noah's Arc, can be disproven. Evolution can not be disproven in any facet.. It is just as much a 'theory' as our Sun being a star. There are flaws in your theory, please point to one in evolution.

    Even if evolution couldn't be proven, as intelligent beings shouldn't we pick the theory that makes the most sense? There are millions of pages of text and evidence, including overlapping facts from other sciences such as genetics, all pointing to the exact same thing: Evolution. There is one book, which has been altered over the years, which has been proven impossible in many respects, which has been partially based off other religions in the past, that points to Christianity.

    Blind faith is the downfall of our species, and the holy grail of those who seek power.
    ---- And the evil that was once vanquished shall rise anew! ----
  • #111
    Quote from "The_wind" »
    . . . . . .really?

    Atleast christianity dosent kill thousands every week, atleast we dont hide behind the lie that we never did anything bad, atleast we dont kill our own family if they get out of a arranged marriage, do you know muslims have the right to kill one another if a muslim converts religion? Honestly islam is a much more hatful religion than christanity, atleast in today's sence.


    u are definately a product of ur government... americans have some superiority complex over islam... they think that all islamic people and/or muslims are hateful... get ur head out of ur ass and realize that the people killing others are extremeists being brainwashed into doing this shit... not because their god says to...
    Tupac 4ever and always
    gamma11 > east

  • #112
    Ok, seriously, I have been biting my tongue trying to not post in threads like this because every time I post in threads like this certain person(s) of authoritative power watch me like a hawk. But this has gone far enough...

    Read the Bible. It is the most disgusting book ever. I won't get into the details, there are youngsters on this site after all, and it makes Diablo 1 and 2 look like My Little Pony, but for all with a mature mentality, read it. Please. Islam at least is open, Christians don't even read there Bibles (Except for what Pastor John Doe tells them to read) let alone follow it. And if they did, then they would be just like the Muslims.
  • #113
    Quote from "gamma11" »
    u are definately a product of ur government... americans have some superiority complex over islam... they think that all islamic people and/or muslims are hateful... get ur head out of ur ass and realize that the people killing others are extremeists being brainwashed into doing this shit... not because their god says to...


    Then i guess im not one of those americans.
    also i said there book was hatful, and alot of the people who do those things are just biproducts of that book, the people who brainwash the other people are products of the book, this is the same for all religions and the people who take them to the 6th sence. Also really another 'goverment has brainwahed u!' Ive heard it a thousand times.

    Really a solution that can solve all of this is just getting rid of books, get rid of the bible, the Qu'ran, just give rid of it and let me believe how i want to believe it. Also there's the problem of having no idea of what my pastor was talking about.


    Making Controversial points one post at a time!
  • #114
    Quote from "Azoruk" »
    Why would I?

    Religion is just a mean to control and manipulate others, regardless of whether or not it benefits society overall.

    If God wanted us to know he exists, he would have made it more obvious.

    Thus, if God exists, he clearly has no intention of letting us know.



    That may be how you think, but if there is a god do you REALLY think that your thinking process would even come close to his? He may have a reason that a mere human wouldn't understand, we dont know and to imply that you would know is very arrogant. Prove to me that organized religions are there for control rather than guidance. We could go on all day about something like the catholics and stuff but try to pick a religion that isn't so easy and prove what you say instead of just saying allllll religion is of the purpose for manipulation, thats just plane lazy. Where you there when they conceived the concept of religion? Do you picture it as a bunch of super villains sitting around in an underground layer plotting their takeover with this new concept of "organized religion"?





    LINKX im sure you can testify for every Christian on the earth aswell?
    Yes the Bible is extreme, is that any different than society today? Things havn't changed! People still kill each other except now they just blow people the hell up.

    I READ THE BIBLE. Give me a biblical example of something being so terrible that it...Wait...you didn't even clarify a basic point. You just started hating on the bible about how bad it is....Constructive.






    Obalobex have you ever seen a movie and talked with someone about it and about half way through you realize they have no clue as to what your referring to in the movie? Well this is the same thing, its very easy to tell who can google well and who actually reads the bible . Either than or you are just repeating what some other idiot said. Nowhere does the bible say that GOD'S DAY is equal=24 hours or 1 thousand years. Several places reveal that to GOD time is not a matter, God doesn't live within the bonds of time from a biblical standpoint. And as Magistrate said Nowhere in the bible did god say "Tho shalt know, The earth is 6 thousand years old!"

    And no the bible doesn't say that man came with animals, how do you know that GOD didn't leave out the fact that there were dino's because at the time it was irrelevant for humans to even know that. Yes it speaks of how God put all the animals on the earth for humans to enjoy and all that but nit picking the bible about time is a bad idea when not directily referring to a specific historical event that happened within the time period of recorded history.

    Where in the bible does it SAY that man was created from thin air? It says man was created from dust. How would you kow if this really meant, he created the early animals from dust and then they evolved into humans. NOWHERE in the bible does it even say that evolution is not possible.

    You should really stop with all the talk about humans fall and flaw with complete faith because your one to freaking talk!!!!you barely know anything about the bible other than the bare minimum that you can read in the first 3 pages and you dont even know half the flaws in your own adopted theories!Im sorry to be rude but your ignorance on the topic makes it pointless to actuallly respond except for the fact that other people can read this. I know MANY flaws with the bible through which non of them were named by you and i wouldn't disclose to someone who hasn't read it. Maybe you could go read it and actually find the flaws instead of freakin spewing out what eveyone else says!

    GO READ UP!


    Oh and as for the things about evolution that dont fit, here are a few

    Where are the fossils of creatures between "evolution"?

    The human eye cant work without full development. If there was anything wrong with it then it wouldnt work. How could a creature survive for billions of years without being able to see that needed to survive on large quantities of food.

    heres one i found
    Humans do not have as many chromosomes as other animals. Special disruptions in DNA "grow" chromosomes but these happen in 1 out of 100 million children. The children only live about 1 week after their birth when they have this disease. There is no way that animals could evolve different amounts of chromosomes unless we can observe that happening now.

    How did a bacteria get a gender to reproduce? How did those one celled organisms go from rapidly reproducing by themselves to needing a partner to reproduce. If the evolution theory was correct why would the bacteria need another mate? if there was no other mate that would be bad, wouldnt it be better if it could reproduce on its own? Why did it devolve?

    And heres a great place to read about some more very compelling flaws in your belief.
    http://sandwalk.blogspot.com/2008/07/three-fatal-flaws-in-theory-of.html

    holy hell


    Knowledge is certainly power. The greatest gift of all from the internet is certainly its accessibility to information on anything. But also remember not all of it may be from an reputable source. Take EVERYTHING you learn about anything with a grain of salt. Ponder upon it, try to learn something, try to learn from other people. Lets not argue about the topic when we can try to learn from each other. Im trying to have a discussion but all anybody ever does on these forums is point fingers and go " No, your fucking stupid for believing that, THIS is the truth". Truth and fact are not always cut and dry, everything can be put in its place with different positions on the truth and different opinions. Im not even against evolution, i dont bash it, i dont see why a god couldn't have structed one cell organisms and made them to evolve. I DONT FREAKIN KNOW, and neither does anyone else so maybe we should all humble ourselves INCLUDING ME and stop pointing fingers and geting mad, just once i wana see it not turn into a flame war....
    "I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
    -Equinox

    "We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
    -Winged
  • #115
    yes i know double posting is a big no no but for some reason this thread isn't showing up on recent posts and i think that is a problem if anyone wants the discussion to continue so lets do an experiment.


    ok it worked, a mod can delete this now lol sorry
    "I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
    -Equinox

    "We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
    -Winged
  • #116
    Quote from "Umpa65" »

    Obalobex It is people like you that don't deserve to start spewing out BS about evolution because you aren't intelligent enough to even interpret meaning. Either than or you are just repeating what some other idiot said. Nowhere does the bible say that GOD'S DAY is equal=24 hours or 1 thousand years. Several places reveal that to GOD time is not a matter, God doesn't live within the bonds of time from a biblical standpoint. And as Magistrate said Nowhere in the bible did god say "Tho shalt know, The earth is 6 thousand years old!"

    And no the bible doesn't say that man came with animals, how do you know that GOD didn't leave out the fact that there were dino's because at the time it was irrelevant for humans to even know that.

    Where in the bible does it SAY that man was created from thin air? It says man was created from dust. How would you kow if this really meant, he created the early animals from dust and then they evolved into humans. NOWHERE in the bible does it even say that evolution is not possible.

    You should really stop with all the talk about humans fall with complete faith because your one to freaking talk!!!!you barely know anything about the bible other than the bare minimum that you can read in the first 3 pages and you dont even know half the flaws in your own adopted theories! I know MANY flaws with the bible through which non of them were named by you and i wouldn't disclose to someone who hasn't read it. Maybe you could go read it and actually find the flaws instead of freakin spewing out what eveyone else says!

    GO READ UP!


    Oh and as for the things about evolution that dont fit, here are a few

    Where are the fossils of creatures between "evolution"?

    The human eye cant work without full development. If there was anything wrong with it then it wouldnt work. How could a creature survive for billions of years without being able to see that needed to survive on large quantities of food.

    heres one i found
    Humans do not have as many chromosomes as other animals. Special disruptions in DNA "grow" chromosomes but these happen in 1 out of 100 million children. The children only live about 1 week after their birth when they have this disease. There is no way that animals could evolve different amounts of chromosomes unless we can observe that happening now.

    How did a bacteria get a gender to reproduce? How did those one celled organisms go from rapidly reproducing by themselves to needing a partner to reproduce. If the evolution theory was correct why would the bacteria need another mate? if there was no other mate that would be bad, wouldnt it be better if it could reproduce on its own? Why did it devolve?

    And heres a great place to read about some more very compelling flaws in your belief.
    http://sandwalk.blogspot.com/2008/07/three-fatal-flaws-in-theory-of.html

    holy hell

    Umpa, you are obviously very... passionate... in your stance and have turned a debate into a personal attack on myself. If you really feel that evolution is false, and God truly created the Heavens and the Earth, then you are entitled to your opinion. Sadly, in my experience with trying to have intelligent conversation with religious people about this, they get extremely defensive and fanatical in their position.

    I am choosing to end this conversation with you now because while I am making an argument for the 99.9% of evolution which is proven true, you are hung up on the 0.1% that is yet to be proven. All people have the right to believe what they want, and hold on to any sliver of faith, no matter how small. If you only look for things wrong with a theory and automatically dismiss any factual evidence supporting it, then your views will be biased. Who knows, maybe you're right and I will burn in a firey Hell of misery for all eternity because I took the time and kept an open mind when taking into account all the facts, and dismissing God as another 'Santa' or 'Toothfairy'.

    Umpa please don't reply to this. I've seen debates like this reach their conclusion and unfortunately the facts are left out while flaming dominates. I do not expect people who have lived their entire youth surrounded by religion (Church, religious friends, religious parents, and general community acceptance of fact) to suddenly jump ship. Let's just both agree to disagree. Thank you.
    ---- And the evil that was once vanquished shall rise anew! ----
  • #117
    we shouldn't even be debating about religion, no side can win in this debate.


    Making Controversial points one post at a time!
  • #118
    Quote from "The_wind" »
    Really a solution that can solve all of this is just getting rid of books, get rid of the bible, the Qu'ran, just give rid of it and let me believe how i want to believe it. Also there's the problem of having no idea of what my pastor was talking about.


    They did that once, and the Crusades happened. The bulk of Humanity is not ready for that style of religion. They were once, tens of thousands of years ago, but not now.

    Quote from "Umpa65" »
    LINKX im sure you can testify for every Christian on the earth aswell?
    Yes the Bible is extreme, is that any different than society today? Things havn't changed! People still kill each other except now they just blow people the hell up.


    People are mean hateful spitefull creatures. The Bible is mean hateful and spiteful. Thus the Bible fits perfectly with Humanity.

    And the bulk of the American Christian population...well nevermind...
  • #119
    Quote from "Obalobex" »
    Umpa, you are obviously very... passionate... in your stance and have turned a debate into a personal attack on myself. If you really feel that evolution is false, and God truly created the Heavens and the Earth, then you are entitled to your opinion. Sadly, in my experience with trying to have intelligent conversation with religious people about this, they get extremely defensive and fanatical in their position.

    I am choosing to end this conversation with you now because while I am making an argument for the 99.9% of evolution which is proven true, you are hung up on the 0.1% that is yet to be proven. All people have the right to believe what they want, and hold on to any sliver of faith, no matter how small. If you only look for things wrong with a theory and automatically dismiss any factual evidence supporting it, then your views will be biased. Who knows, maybe you're right and I will burn in a firey Hell of misery for all eternity because I took the time and kept an open mind when taking into account all the facts, and dismissing God as another 'Santa' or 'Toothfairy'.

    Umpa please don't reply to this. I've seen debates like this reach their conclusion and unfortunately the facts are left out while flaming dominates. I do not expect people who have lived their entire youth surrounded by religion (Church, religious friends, religious parents, and general community acceptance of fact) to suddenly jump ship. Let's just both agree to disagree. Thank you.

    see i have to reply because of your attempt to make me seem fanatical. good job editing my quote saying that i have no problems with evolution and that i think it very plausible. I know the flaws to both sides, i never attacked you, i pointed out flaws in your argument and that you clearly dont know what your talking about.

    I dont look for the things wrong with a theory YOU ASKED ME TO GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF A FLAW ROFL. so i did and apparently it made you sad face because you didnt even respond to my response to your own request. I clearly stated that evolution was ok by me as of now, maybe you should read my entire post



    In many cases Linkx.....very true, but i still dont see the point. if it's that theres no way the bible could be true cuz of all the cruelty that is plausible, but it could also be that there is agod and it is just the sad world we live in and how we are. Like in song reference and movie reference ive seen many put existence with the idea of god in a very depressing transcendental way of looking at it. Such as "god is just a kid with an ant farm" and things like that. I dont support this idea but ya never know, ya know?
    "I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
    -Equinox

    "We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
    -Winged
  • #120
    Quote from "Umpa65" »
    see i have to reply because of your attempt to make me seem fanatical. good job editing my quote saying that i have no problems with evolution and that i think it very plausible. I know the flaws to both sides, i never attacked you, i pointed out flaws in your argument and that you clearly dont know what your talking about.

    I dont look for the things wrong with a theory YOU ASKED ME TO GIVE AN EXAMPLE OF A FLAW ROFL. so i did and apparently it made you sad face because you didnt even respond to my response to your own request. I clearly stated that evolution was ok by me as of now, maybe you should read my entire post


    I didn't edit anything, I cut out the part that wasn't addressed to our conversation.

    If you want to have a serious conversation, present your side from a much less personal and agressive standpoint. I refuse to be involved in this debate because you belittle, you refuse to give up any ground, and most importantly you are unable to leave emotion out of this.
    ---- And the evil that was once vanquished shall rise anew! ----
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