Umpa, that wouldn't be a fair poll would it? Human history has been controlled by religion because of mans lack of knowledge. Recently more and more people have begin to leave religion because of its false hope and promises. People are realizing that religion was a man made creation to answer unknown questions that are now being answered. Many of the larger religions are dieing just as the ancient mythologies of the ancient world had died off. Eventually these religions will die off and the future will look back and say the same thing about them as we say about Greek and Norse mythology, damn those people back then were stupid making up all those stories, although I guess it did keep people in line for a while......
THANK YOU someone else with common sense :)... religions have less and less following because they provide false hope... people are realizing this and beginning to see that they need to live their lives to the fullest while on earth because thats it... when ur gone ur gone
THANK YOU someone else with common sense :)... religions have less and less following because they provide false hope... people are realizing this and beginning to see that they need to live their lives to the fullest while on earth because thats it... when ur gone ur gone
man gamma u need ur own tv show like the other televangelists, preach up your new religion!
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
i would actuallly love to see a poll from some scientist that tried to calculate atheists vs everyone in human history with a religious belief. i wonder if there is one
And how does that prove anything? Believing something is correct doesn't make it correct, no matter how many people do it.
Quote from "Umpa65" »
you implied that mythology was a really old religion that is now no longer believed and didn't stand the test of time, i felt it necessary to point out that your point didn't really prove anything whatsoever. Original belief in one god can be traced all the way back to the first civilization we know of, Ur.
and no you didnt SAY religion was wrong but there was certainly an implication. you didn't SAY any of those things, nor did i say you said them, i merely pointed out the implications
So the fact that millions of people have once believed in mythologies that we today view as superstitious proves that a God exist? I don't see how them being wrong proves that there is in fact a higher being.
I understand your reasoning however. You say, that since so many people have always throughout the world had some form of belief in a higher being, such a being must exist.
Well then I say, if so many people in the world believe in a higher being, how come not one of them came up with the same God, but all had different ways to explain their lives?
PlugY for Diablo II allows you to reset skills and stats, transfer items between characters in singleplayer, obtain all ladder runewords and do all Uberquests while offline. It is the only way to do all of the above. Please use it.
Supporting big shoulderpads and flashy armor since 2004.
well. you sorta get it. i wasn't trying to defend my point so much when i was bringing up ancient belief ina god. And i never said that God exists primarily on the fact that everyone believed in one, i merely stated that because so many DID believe in a god, many of which who had great academic and scholarly worth, that maybe you should give it some thought. What if your wrong? what if there is a god? and this whole time u chose to turn your back on him and u end up screwed? considering these things wouldnt it be slightly wise to study religion? My point wasn't that cuz everyone believes in one then he must be real. my point is that you shouldnt let your scientific views get to your head so that you act like on your short time on the earth already you have figured out the key to life. Maybe you have, maybe all religion is wrong, but considering our entire species for the most part COULD be right maybe it would be wise to try and understand their point of view.
oh and to answer your question phrozendragon, from a biblical standpoint even the old testament reveals tons of religions that differed from that of the christian god. One of the most prominent of these was baal. If you ever have a chance to see the history of this god it is quite interesting. First he is Baal, then some differences like Ba'al, then to Bala, or other variations. Then eventually you see a people worshiping a god named Ba'laz or something like tht and then baal'zebub (not exact) and then Beelzebub. So the bible's response to that question is simple, Satan came to cloud the path of righteousness and in effect other religions were formed to take away worship from the one true god.
Now phrozenDragon i have a question for you. Why are humans the only creatures we know of in existence that has the ability to, and lead our life with Free will. No other animal or anything uses free will. They use instinct. PURELY instinct. Its amazing to think that some birds can literally fly across the entire world to land on the same tree they were hatched long before, all with instinct. In evolution when did we make a transition from instinct to free will? As a matter of fact, what in our genes and dna can account for the concept of free will. This amazing ability to CHOOSE exactly what we want to believe. Why dont animals have this ability? at least one species?
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
What if your wrong? what if there is a god? and this whole time u chose to turn your back on him and u end up screwed?
So you should believe in “god” because of the consequences if you don’t?
Quote from "Umpa65" »
Why are humans the only creatures we know of in existence that has the ability to, and lead our life with Free will. No other animal or anything uses free will. They use instinct. PURELY instinct.
Are you telling me by dog sits when I say sit out of instinct? Or that he shits in my bed only when I've been out of town for more then a day that's instinct and not spite?
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"The most tragic thing about religion is that evangelical people who have such a degree of blind faith, who do and believe terrible things because they are sold as the will of God. Unfortunately this is almost half of America and leads to such things as electing George Bush, twice..."
So you should believe in “god” because of the consequences if you don’t?
Are you telling me by dog sits when I say sit out of instinct? Or that he shits in my bed only when I've been out of town for more then a day that's instinct and not spite?
do you think an animal uses free will when deciding to make a kill? or does instinct drive it for food. your dog sits cuz your its master, it has to. just cuz it doesnt have free will doesnt mean that it cant learn simple tasks you tell it to learn. fine, if that doesnt satisfy you then why are we the only creatures that use our free will more than instinct? why is there not one other creature that has broken through their animalistic behavior to use logic to weigh all their decisions? y is it only humans do this? picking apart one aspect of my argument doesnt help yours. Can you show me in human genetics why we have this "free will" and others dont?
i didn't say for u to believe in god because of the consequences, you did. whether you BELIEVE in god or not there will always be those consequences, but if you act on that belief then such consequences could be avoided.
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
From what ive heard Chimpanzees, bonobos and urangatangs and some other great apes are quite intelligent from an animal perspective, use a lot of free will in comparison and even feel some higher emotions like guilt and envy. I heard of one story where the chimpanzees alpha female would cheat on the alpha male with another chimp when she knew the alpha would be away hunting.
Take a Dog for instance, in every possible action it can take it only has a very small selection of choices. But that does not mean it doesn't have free will. They're simpler mechanisms (than us) which have displayed properties of consciousness and free will and higher emotion. If you train your dog correctly it will know that its done something wrong and put its head down even if you dont show any outward signs of anger
And even if Dogs dont have free will... The idea that they don't have free will, and from a religious standpoint also have no soul has lead to thousands of years of animal abuse and neglect
do you think an animal uses free will when deciding to make a kill? or does instinct drive it for food. your dog sits cuz your its master, it has to. just cuz it doesnt have free will doesnt mean that it cant learn simple tasks you tell it to learn. fine, if that doesnt satisfy you then why are we the only creatures that use our free will more than instinct? why is there not one other creature that has broken through their animalistic behavior to use logic to weigh all their decisions? y is it only humans do this? picking apart one aspect of my argument doesnt help yours. Can you show me in human genetics why we have this "free will" and others dont?
i didn't say for u to believe in god because of the consequences, you did. whether you BELIEVE in god or not there will always be those consequences, but if you act on that belief then such consequences could be avoided.
i believe humans stopped relying on instinct so much when they removed themselves from nature. Wild animals still need instinct to survive, whereas domesticated animals show more of what you might call "free will."
"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
From what ive heard Chimpanzees, bonobos and urangatangs and some other great apes are quite intelligent from an animal perspective, use a lot of free will in comparison and even feel some higher emotions like guilt and envy. I heard of one story where the chimpanzees alpha female would cheat on the alpha male with another chimp when she knew the alpha would be away hunting.
Take a Dog for instance, in every possible action it can take it only has a very small selection of choices. But that does not mean it doesn't have free will. They're simpler mechanisms (than us) which have displayed properties of consciousness and free will and higher emotion. If you train your dog correctly it will know that its done something wrong and put its head down even if you dont show any outward signs of anger
And even if Dogs dont have free will... The idea that they don't have free will, and from a religious standpoint also have no soul has lead to thousands of years of animal abuse and neglect
well humans are technically still animals but yes chimps babaoons and ornaguatangs are highly intelligent animals they use tools to get theyre food and various clans of chimps have been know to wage war on one another using sticks rocks fruit and their erect penis's as weapons... and the idea of animals other than ourselves having free will is easy to see... if you let your dog (or most dogs) outside it will go off and do its own thing but it will eventually realize that i want to go back home... it doesnt have to go back home but if it does it realizes that it will have a meal water and warmth... they go back because they WANT to not because they have to.
well humans are technically still animals but yes chimps babaoons and ornaguatangs are highly intelligent animals they use tools to get theyre food and various clans of chimps have been know to wage war on one another using sticks rocks fruit and their erect penis's as weapons... and the idea of animals other than ourselves having free will is easy to see... if you let your dog (or most dogs) outside it will go off and do its own thing but it will eventually realize that i want to go back home... it doesnt have to go back home but if it does it realizes that it will have a meal water and warmth... they go back because they WANT to not because they have to.
thts common sense, not free will. tht falls under instinct. where does that dog get its food? from the human, instinctively the dog does what is necessary to survive and that dog knows that to survive it is in its best interest to go back home where the food is. its still under instincts
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
thts common sense, not free will. tht falls under instinct. where does that dog get its food? from the human, instinctively the dog does what is necessary to survive and that dog knows that to survive it is in its best interest to go back home where the food is. its still under instincts
its nto instinct... it knows it can live on its own... it knows that it can go out and get food from hunting... but by its own free will it comes back AND dogs can show emotion... i think most animals can
how do YOU know that it knows it can go hunting? we've domesticated animals so much they dont know what it is to hunt
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"I want to say something but I'll keep it to myself I guess and leave this useless post behind to make you aware that there WAS something... "
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
lol hunting is instinct... this has come full circle. by your definition i "instinctively" go to the grocery store cause im doing what is necessary to survive so its in my best interest to eat. or does that only apply to dogs?
edit: this is getting way off topic, maybe this would be better in a new thread about free will or religion.
I was brought up to believe that everyone has their own guardian angel....the angel follows us where ever we go.We must I believe that each of us have the power to do good......you see all that you need to do is to listen to your guardian angel.....usually...it is the softest and most faint voice that is the voice of truth
I was brought up to believe that everyone has their own guardian angel....the angel follows us where ever we go.We must I believe that each of us have the power to do good......you see all that you need to do is to listen to your guardian angel.....usually...it is the softest and most faint voice that is the voice of truth
Most people just call this a conscience. And realize that it’s just a thought in there head rather then an invisible entity that fallows you around.
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"The most tragic thing about religion is that evangelical people who have such a degree of blind faith, who do and believe terrible things because they are sold as the will of God. Unfortunately this is almost half of America and leads to such things as electing George Bush, twice..."
how do YOU know that it knows it can go hunting? we've domesticated animals so much they dont know what it is to hunt
hwo do i know that it knows it can hunt?... last weekend... as with most weekends.... my cousin was away from his house and since his dog was about a year old hes been leaving it outside on weekends... the dog understands this and finds its own meals when he is not home... it knows it can hunt, it know how to hunt and it knows that it needs to hunt...
THANK YOU someone else with common sense :)... religions have less and less following because they provide false hope... people are realizing this and beginning to see that they need to live their lives to the fullest while on earth because thats it... when ur gone ur gone
gamma11 > east
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
So the fact that millions of people have once believed in mythologies that we today view as superstitious proves that a God exist? I don't see how them being wrong proves that there is in fact a higher being.
I understand your reasoning however. You say, that since so many people have always throughout the world had some form of belief in a higher being, such a being must exist.
Well then I say, if so many people in the world believe in a higher being, how come not one of them came up with the same God, but all had different ways to explain their lives?
oh and to answer your question phrozendragon, from a biblical standpoint even the old testament reveals tons of religions that differed from that of the christian god. One of the most prominent of these was baal. If you ever have a chance to see the history of this god it is quite interesting. First he is Baal, then some differences like Ba'al, then to Bala, or other variations. Then eventually you see a people worshiping a god named Ba'laz or something like tht and then baal'zebub (not exact) and then Beelzebub. So the bible's response to that question is simple, Satan came to cloud the path of righteousness and in effect other religions were formed to take away worship from the one true god.
Now phrozenDragon i have a question for you. Why are humans the only creatures we know of in existence that has the ability to, and lead our life with Free will. No other animal or anything uses free will. They use instinct. PURELY instinct. Its amazing to think that some birds can literally fly across the entire world to land on the same tree they were hatched long before, all with instinct. In evolution when did we make a transition from instinct to free will? As a matter of fact, what in our genes and dna can account for the concept of free will. This amazing ability to CHOOSE exactly what we want to believe. Why dont animals have this ability? at least one species?
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
So you should believe in “god” because of the consequences if you don’t?
Are you telling me by dog sits when I say sit out of instinct? Or that he shits in my bed only when I've been out of town for more then a day that's instinct and not spite?
-Obalobex
do you think an animal uses free will when deciding to make a kill? or does instinct drive it for food. your dog sits cuz your its master, it has to. just cuz it doesnt have free will doesnt mean that it cant learn simple tasks you tell it to learn. fine, if that doesnt satisfy you then why are we the only creatures that use our free will more than instinct? why is there not one other creature that has broken through their animalistic behavior to use logic to weigh all their decisions? y is it only humans do this? picking apart one aspect of my argument doesnt help yours. Can you show me in human genetics why we have this "free will" and others dont?
i didn't say for u to believe in god because of the consequences, you did. whether you BELIEVE in god or not there will always be those consequences, but if you act on that belief then such consequences could be avoided.
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
Take a Dog for instance, in every possible action it can take it only has a very small selection of choices. But that does not mean it doesn't have free will. They're simpler mechanisms (than us) which have displayed properties of consciousness and free will and higher emotion. If you train your dog correctly it will know that its done something wrong and put its head down even if you dont show any outward signs of anger
And even if Dogs dont have free will... The idea that they don't have free will, and from a religious standpoint also have no soul has lead to thousands of years of animal abuse and neglect
i believe humans stopped relying on instinct so much when they removed themselves from nature. Wild animals still need instinct to survive, whereas domesticated animals show more of what you might call "free will."
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
well humans are technically still animals but yes chimps babaoons and ornaguatangs are highly intelligent animals they use tools to get theyre food and various clans of chimps have been know to wage war on one another using sticks rocks fruit and their erect penis's as weapons... and the idea of animals other than ourselves having free will is easy to see... if you let your dog (or most dogs) outside it will go off and do its own thing but it will eventually realize that i want to go back home... it doesnt have to go back home but if it does it realizes that it will have a meal water and warmth... they go back because they WANT to not because they have to.
gamma11 > east
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
its nto instinct... it knows it can live on its own... it knows that it can go out and get food from hunting... but by its own free will it comes back AND dogs can show emotion... i think most animals can
gamma11 > east
-Equinox
"We're like the downtown of the Diablo related internet lol"
-Winged
edit: this is getting way off topic, maybe this would be better in a new thread about free will or religion.
Most people just call this a conscience. And realize that it’s just a thought in there head rather then an invisible entity that fallows you around.
-Obalobex
Siaynoq's Playthroughs
Most people call the good thoughts in their head their conscience
But some people call their conscience their guardian angel
There was an invisible entity following me around once. It smelt like rotten cabbages and made a noise
hwo do i know that it knows it can hunt?... last weekend... as with most weekends.... my cousin was away from his house and since his dog was about a year old hes been leaving it outside on weekends... the dog understands this and finds its own meals when he is not home... it knows it can hunt, it know how to hunt and it knows that it needs to hunt...
gamma11 > east