Magic Find and its efficiency: A statistical insight

  • #983
    Quote from Nubtro

    I could swear that part of the article was not there yesterday when I read it thoroughly, I´m serious (you´re not the only one Loroese). Plus it doesn´t make any sense, all monsters turn level 63 in all acts suddenly when affixes are supposed to depend on monster level???

    Also I´m absolutely sure there was some answer in the likes of "that´s on the table" and I don´t see that anywhere, am I paranoid or something? I´d say the interview´s been modified somehow...but whatever.

    I´m really confused here, but it should all be cleared up by tomorrow, hopefully I´ll be able to test the PTR, just finished the download.


    they changed it,now we wait for PTR to test it
  • #984
    Loroese and Nubtro, the article was definitely edited. Cyreon still has the original answer to that question in his quote above.

    Edit: I'm mostly curious if they'll change the drop rates with the iLvl restriction. Will Act 3 still drop more iLvl 63 items?
  • #985
    Nice guide bro rep for that
  • #986
    although is magic find actually that important considering i dont really pay much attention to it
  • #987
    Quote from zG_Trickz

    although is magic find actually that important considering i dont really pay much attention to it


    Some of us play this game solely for the magic find.
  • #988
    Ah fuck, pressed a wrong button, lost my text.

    It's a flat 25% to MF/Gold find per level. The + exp boost is not flat, it's 10% from 1-3, then 25%, then another 10% step, then larger steps... It tops out at 135% with MP 10.

    The damage done by the very early act 1 zombies roughly doubles when going from MP0 to MP1. I would guess that they get upgraded to lvl 63 at this point, but I'm not sure yet.


    Edit: For what it's worth, here is one full inventory of Act 1 loot with MP1. I picked up every item, regardless of color:

    63: 4
    62: 8
    61: 10
    60: 4
    59:1
    58:3

    I know it's not enough data to be significant, but there is a clear trend towards more 61+ gear. Game kicked me.
    My monk Vin
  • #989
    Quote from _Depression

    Loroese and Nubtro, the article was definitely edited. Cyreon still has the original answer to that question in his quote above.

    Edit: I'm mostly curious if they'll change the drop rates with the iLvl restriction. Will Act 3 still drop more iLvl 63 items?


    You're right. Looks like a ninja buff ;)
  • #990
    Quote from Lylirra:

    So, the moment you go into Inferno with any kind of Monster Power (e.g. Monster Power 1 and above), all monsters become level 63, and they can now all drop iLevel 63 items the same way that Act III and Act IV Inferno currently do. However, bumping up Monster Power beyond 1 will not further increase your chance of getting iLevel 63 items.
  • #991
    Quote from _Depression

    Quote from Lylirra:

    So, the moment you go into Inferno with any kind of Monster Power (e.g. Monster Power 1 and above), all monsters become level 63, and they can now all drop iLevel 63 items the same way that Act III and Act IV Inferno currently do. However, bumping up Monster Power beyond 1 will not further increase your chance of getting iLevel 63 items.



    Nice info. I actually think that's a quite clever mechanic. This way you can play act I/II without being too concerned about the loot in III/IV laughing at you. But I guess we should have seen it coming now that affix rolls depends on mLvl (does anyone know yet if they depend on MPLvl or mLvl only?).

    Also, I laughed quite a bit at the PC Gamer article being edited x).
  • #992
    Quote from Cyeron


    Nice info. I actually think that's a quite clever mechanic. This way you can play act I/II without being too concerned about the loot in III/IV laughing at you. But I guess we should have seen it coming now that affix rolls depends on mLvl (does anyone know yet if they depend on MPLvl or mLvl only?).

    Also, I laughed quite a bit at the PC Gamer article being edited x).


    Mob level only, the power level will not affect affix rolls directly and will only affect them indirectly because of the increased MF.
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  • #993
    I think Loroese is right. So, theoretically:

    MP0 is the system disengaged. Everything works like it does right now.
    MP1 is the system engaged at lowest level:
    • 25 Bonus MF
    • All Monsters are level 63
    • Every elite everywhere has the same chance of ilvl63 loot (maybe like current Act 3?)
    • All pieces of loot can roll level 63-rank affixes
    MP10
    • Just like MP1 but with 250 Bonus MF
    Guess we'll try to confirm piece by piece. The only thing that may be really hard to tackle is the "chance to drop bonus loot". Wonder if that's just a new item slot (like slot 3) that has a scaling chance of dropping with MP level. Would be sweet if its drop chance were 10%/MP, so that it became guaranteed at MP10.

    EDIT: Oh, and by the way, reports are saying that MP1 Act 1 is harder than 1.0.4 Act 1. Makes sense in the context of them upping those monsters to level 63 from current 61.
  • #994
    Interesting side note, if you include the 5NV rare in the calculations, we actually start getting less 4-affix rares after around 400MF. If someone gets to 600MF (300gear/para + 75 NV + MP9), they're getting 8.7% 6-Affix rares and 30.5% 4-Affix rares, while 400MF is 6.2% 6-Affix and 31.0% 4-Affix. Interesting.
  • #995
    The additional MF-bonus is mainly for the number of 6/5-stat-rares. Slot 1 and 4 are not far away from 100% rare at O(300mf), and slot 2/3 have a low probability with any possible MF value.
  • #996
    Quote from Lexikon

    The additional MF-bonus is mainly for the number of 6/5-stat-rares. Slot 1 and 4 are not far away from 100% rare at O(300mf), and slot 2/3 have a low probability with any possible MF value.


    Yep yep.

    For reference:
  • #997
    Nice PTR initial info ztking and others, I´m just wondering what the point of farming act 3 will be? I mean even if act 1 and act 3 monsters are level 63, I´d presume that act 3 would have the stronger monsters...unless level 63 automatically equals all individual monsters within a certain type/group (fallen, skeleton etc.).

    I would really love to do some sequenced data testing (and the effect of MP on drops) but I´m getting error 12 all the time upon login. I´m assuming that PTR is currently limited to "Americas" unless people do some weird region/language switches in the original game (even then it doesn´t work for everyone)...oh well.

    In the meantime, here´s some 1.0.4 legendary stats from me:

    part 1: 55 act 3 runs (most of them complete), MF from +231% to +403% MF (grew with paragon levels and gear swaps)
    - lifetime: 441492 -> 616976
    - elite: 21502 -> 28393
    - legendaries: 31

    part 2: act 3 runs at +403% MF (5 NV)
    - lifetime: 616976 -> 700428
    - elite: 28393 -> 31675
    - legendaries: 20

    I´m paragon level 53 right now. Today I´ve gotten 3 legendaries per run for the second time since farming at +403% MF. Don´t be folled by this, it´s either 1 almost every run or none for a few runs and then I get up to 3 in one, although I´m mixing things up a bit, changing the order of clearing areas, not always doing complete runs etc.

    Take into account that getting a legendary doesn´t mean getting a good rolled one.

    Also, confirming the following sources of legendary drops:
    - elite packs
    - goblins
    - bosses (2 from azmo, 1 from cyda)
    - uniques (like the firebird in the battlefields)
    - trash mobs
    - normal chests

    By the way, I´d like to hear the dev reasoning behind creating >6 affix legendaries (sun keeper, ice climbers..) and I´d also like to know how 1.0.5 will affect crafted items...
  • #998
    @Nubtro

    The most important part of the language switching thing is to be able to leave general chat. But if you can't log in in any language, it doesn't help.

    The point of farming A3 is the high mob density. I wouldn't even know where to go in Act 1 to find anything comparable to Keeps Depth or Fields of Slaughter or Arreat Crater. A2 should have some good corners, but some of the mobs there will really be annoying with high MP.

    The best place to farm in the future might be VotA though. Crank your monster power up just enough so you can still speed clear it (say 3-5). In normal it takes about 3-4 minutes to clear VotA, I've done a few runs recently in 1.0.4 and it takes about 5 minutes with picking up loot and actually having to kill the elites. I should be able to keep this pace with monster power 3-4, not sure about 5/6.

    Say 8 elites + 400 trash mobs in 5 minutes, that's roughly 50 item drops, maybe more with additional drops from MP, and now the chance of dropping ilvl 63 legendaries is as good as anywhere in A3.Although there are some nasty elites in there, so cranking up that monster power might not be as easy.
    My monk Vin
  • #999
    This may sound like conspiracy theory talk but I have 2 friends who are documenting what port they are in for every loot run and have noticed a definite trend that their level 63 and legendary % of loot have jumped dramatically when they load a game in the 70ish port range. I have witnessed this first hand with hundreds maybe thousands of game loads. (what they arent capturing is number of affixes. Just simply level of items and the number of items found is <60,61,62,63,Legendary and the results are somewhat alarming).

    I only bring this here because I realize the sample size is too small for any grand conclusions but possibly with any further testing done here if you added the port as an outlier maybe you could see a trend as well.
  • #1000
    @ztking: Nice graph, thanks.

    Quote from Nubtro

    Nice PTR initial info ztking and others, I´m just wondering what the point of farming act 3 will be? I mean even if act 1 and act 3 monsters are level 63, I´d presume that act 3 would have the stronger monsters...unless level 63 automatically equals all individual monsters within a certain type/group (fallen, skeleton etc.).

    With MP 0, act1-monsters are weak, but with MP 1 they get a serious upgrade.
    The first zombies as example:
    MP 0: 25k HP, damage ~500-1000
    MP 1: 95k HP, damage ~2000-2500
    MP10: 2290k HP, damage ~6000-8000
    The damage values refer to a specific char, so only relative values are important. As you can see, MP 1 adjusts the monsters to act3-standards.

    I get error 12 too, so I cannot test it myself. It is not region-specific, some in europe can log in.


    @Blackmancer: "the results are somewhat alarming"? Do they have something specific? If yes, can you show the data? We have the same myth at inDiablo (without specific numbers), but the data collection is a bit slow.



    Edit: Considering elite numbers: Do we have a ratio champ/rare groups, and the average number of champs in a champ group?
  • #1001
    Quote from Lexikon

    Edit: Considering elite numbers: Do we have a ratio champ/rare groups, and the average number of champs in a champ group?


    I bet that depends heavily on the route, since places like warrior's rest are guaranteed to have champions (not blue packs), certain monsters spawn in 4s instead of 3s, and bosses and scripted elites would skew the numbers.
  • #1002
    I´m not sure about the ratio but from my experience and data there´s 49-61 elite packs in act 3. I´ve collected data from 64 runs, 8 of them were incomplete, so consider 56 as complete.

    7474 elites / 56 runs = 133.5 elites per act on average

    Those numbers are from the character profile, which means uniques (probably 1-3 per act) + bosses (2-3 depending on where I start the game, most runs included siege so that´s 3) + yellow (rare) elite pack leaders + champions. On average, there´s around 3 champions per champ pack. I´d say the rare/champ pack ratio is 50/50, so it should be possible to calculate the rough numbers...

    x + 3x = 133.5 - 3 - 3
    x = 32

    Which means around 60 elite packs, half of them rare, half (3x) champs... maybe there´s more uniques than I remember or more 4x champs (so on average more than 3 champs per pack). If I´d apply 3.5 champs per pack, the results would fit almost perfectly (56 elite packs per act on average). Anyway, these are pretty accurate act 3 estimates if you ask me.
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