Marquise Emerald V.S. Ruby

  • #1
    Heyas guys, i finally got to paragon 100 and i switched to a build that i enjoy more, for pvp and mp10, granted it's not as fast to farm as CM/WW or archon but i like it alot more, the thing is that a do not have enough money to craft 2 marquises (emerald and ruby) to test so i went to d3up and there it says i get more dps from ruby, the dps stays almost the same as with emerald, (300 damage difference) but since emerald is only on crits does that mean i should invest in a marquise ruby? i would aprecciate if any1 who has tested something similar would give me their opinion.
    cheers!
    <--- battletag
    Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
  • #2
    Well Rubies get good if u have like. 30%crit chance and 400% crit dmg. u need to have 1/10.So whenever u have too much of CHD and too little crit, ruby might be better.
  • #3
    No offense but that's not really what i asked xD
    i have:
    46.5% Crit Chance
    548% Crit Damage
    My question was to any1 who has the same dps with ruby as with emerald, like me, paper dps is almost the same (300 damage difference) with either gem, i just wanna know which one does more dmg, like a ghom run or even pvp, since i don't have money to craft them both and try both. hope i was more specific now and thanks for your opinion also.
    Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
  • #4
    http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Kallizk-2286/hero/580881

    This you?

    If you're using a blizzard build, it might be more beneficial to use a ruby for the more consistant damage but in the end the damage should average out well enough, especially for the channeled spell (RoF). In the end I'd just use whichever gives more dps or whichever you actually have made at the time (or whichever is cheaper since the damage is so close).

    Really the only time it might make a difference is if you use Hydra, since hydra doesn't scale with Crit damage.
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  • #5
    Probably Jaetch or Loroese will be able to help the best.
    I know Jaetch opts for Ruby.

    It may depend on your build. I heard something about Rubys being better with Archons disentigration wave.. not totally sure.

    It could also be that the +%elemental damage is the key for the switch. So if you have a really high total +%elemental damage then socketing your Blackweapon with a Ruby increases its effect/your dps a lot more.

    It looks like you have a skorn so Emerald would probably be best in my opinion. I would only change to Ruby if my offhand was triumvirate (15-18+%elemental damage)
  • #6
    Quote from CheehC

    Probably Jaetch or Loroese will be able to help the best.
    I know Jaetch opts for Ruby.

    It may depend on your build. I heard something about Rubys being better with Archons disentigration wave.. not totally sure.

    It could also be that the +%elemental damage is the key for the switch. So if you have a really high total +%elemental damage then socketing your Blackweapon with a Ruby increases its effect/your dps a lot more.


    When using a black weapon the +%elemental damage doesn't matter. It only plays a role in determining which is better if you have a non-black weapon.

    For Archon beam or other similar spells, it's just best to use whichever gives the most char sheet dps because the beam hits like 30-60 times per second, so the damage averages out pretty well either way.
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    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #7
    Quote from Loroese

    Quote from CheehC

    Probably Jaetch or Loroese will be able to help the best.
    I know Jaetch opts for Ruby.

    It may depend on your build. I heard something about Rubys being better with Archons disentigration wave.. not totally sure.

    It could also be that the +%elemental damage is the key for the switch. So if you have a really high total +%elemental damage then socketing your Blackweapon with a Ruby increases its effect/your dps a lot more.


    When using a black weapon the +%elemental damage doesn't matter. It only plays a role in determining which is better if you have a non-black weapon.


    Just gonna throw this in there, when you say "doesn't matter," are you saying it doesn't matter because it's black, and adding more black to black is nothing new? Or are you saying ruby min/max is not black and elemental bonuses don't affect it?

    I do agree with the second part though, that it's much different when socketing an elemental weapon.
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  • #8
    I'm saying the elemental damage adds the same bonus dps multiplier regardless of if you use a ruby or emerald. That's only true when you have a black weapon. So when trying to figure out which gives you more dps the elemental damage doesn't matter.

    The simplified DPS formula becomes
    DPS = (ave weapon damage)*(Weapon APS)*(1+sum(IAS))*(1+CC*CD)*(1+Elemental Damage)*(1+Int/1000)

    The factors of Weapon APS, 1+sum(IAS), 1+Elemental Damage, 1+int/1000 are the same for both gems with a black weapon. In that case the ruby directly adds to the ave weapon damage and the emerald adds directly to CD. In other words, if you have the same dps with a ruby as an emerald but add 1% extra elemental damage while keeping everything else the same, then you'll still get the same dps from ruby or emerald.
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #9
    Im pretty astounded noone mentioned that rubys are only good if you have %weapon dmg on your weapon and a decent attackspeed. both increases the effect alot. thats why cm wizards mostly use rubys in their chanto. 1.61-1.65 aps and up to 50% weapon dmg. the base 160 avg dmg of the ruby get thus bumped up to 344 +dps on the weapon whereas if you only had 1.2 aps and no %weapon dmg it only would provide you with 192 avg dmg. thats a huge difference. more to mention is that the ruby does not convert a elemental weapon into a black weapon. %elemental dmg does only work on the ruby. crit chance and crit dmg dont really matter at all. rubys increase the base dmg and thus also the crit dmg.
  • #10
    Quote from Lethmyr

    Im pretty astounded noone mentioned that rubys are only good if you have %weapon dmg on your weapon and a decent attackspeed. both increases the effect alot. thats why cm wizards mostly use rubys in their chanto. 1.61-1.65 aps and up to 50% weapon dmg. the base 160 avg dmg of the ruby get thus bumped up to 344 +dps on the weapon whereas if you only had 1.2 aps and no %weapon dmg it only would provide you with 192 avg dmg. thats a huge difference. more to mention is that the ruby does not convert a elemental weapon into a black weapon. %elemental dmg does only work on the ruby. crit chance and crit dmg dont really matter at all. rubys increase the base dmg and thus also the crit dmg.


    Attack speed actually has nothing to do with making a ruby better then an emerald. What you're thinking is higher APS weapons have lower average damage, thus ruby adds more average damage. That's true, but that's because of average damage. If you have a 1 APS weapon that is 1000-2000 damage or a 2 APS weapon that is 1000-2000 damage, if a ruby is better in one weapon than an emerald, it will be better in the other weapon, but if an emerald is better in one weapon, it will be better in the other too. You obviously gain more dps from putting a ruby in the 2 APS weapon but you also gain more dps from an emerald in that weapon compared to the first. IAS on gear is the same and impacts both configurations in the same way, as I show above.

    Most CM wizards should use an emerald, unless they have very high CD. Otherwise they'll get more dps out of an emerald, especially those running Deep Freeze, since it gives 15% extra crit and has a very high uptime thanks to mob density.

    As for the weapon damage%, it's implied to be present when the OP said both gems give about the same char sheet dps. OP also has a Skorn in profile which has the weapon damage%, otherwise a ruby likely wouldn't even be worth consideration.

    I could go into more detail about what stats lead to ruby or emerald giving higher char sheet dps but that's a bit off topic. I stand by my previous statement that the best option is to just use whichever gives the higher char sheet dps, UNLESS you're using Hydra. That's the only wizard skill that doesn't scale from crit damage.
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #11
    Quote from Loroese

    Quote from Lethmyr

    Im pretty astounded noone mentioned that rubys are only good if you have %weapon dmg on your weapon and a decent attackspeed. both increases the effect alot. thats why cm wizards mostly use rubys in their chanto. 1.61-1.65 aps and up to 50% weapon dmg. the base 160 avg dmg of the ruby get thus bumped up to 344 +dps on the weapon whereas if you only had 1.2 aps and no %weapon dmg it only would provide you with 192 avg dmg. thats a huge difference. more to mention is that the ruby does not convert a elemental weapon into a black weapon. %elemental dmg does only work on the ruby. crit chance and crit dmg dont really matter at all. rubys increase the base dmg and thus also the crit dmg.


    Attack speed actually has nothing to do with making a ruby better then an emerald. What you're thinking is higher APS weapons have lower average damage, thus ruby adds more average damage. That's true, but that's because of average damage. If you have a 1 APS weapon that is 1000-2000 damage or a 2 APS weapon that is 1000-2000 damage, if a ruby is better in one weapon than an emerald, it will be better in the other weapon, but if an emerald is better in one weapon, it will be better in the other too. You obviously gain more dps from putting a ruby in the 2 APS weapon but you also gain more dps from an emerald in that weapon compared to the first. IAS on gear is the same and impacts both configurations in the same way, as I show above.

    Most CM wizards should use an emerald, unless they have very high CD. Otherwise they'll get more dps out of an emerald, especially those running Deep Freeze, since it gives 15% extra crit and has a very high uptime thanks to mob density.

    As for the weapon damage%, it's implied to be present when the OP said both gems give about the same char sheet dps. OP also has a Skorn in profile which has the weapon damage%, otherwise a ruby likely wouldn't even be worth consideration.

    I could go into more detail about what stats lead to ruby or emerald giving higher char sheet dps but that's a bit off topic. I stand by my previous statement that the best option is to just use whichever gives the higher char sheet dps, UNLESS you're using Hydra. That's the only wizard skill that doesn't scale from crit damage.


    However if you just compare a 50%weapon dmg ruby (240 avg dmg) with a 110% cd you have to admit that in most cases, if not all, the ruby provides more dps. i played a 230k unbuffed cm wizard with only 250cd and the ruby still was alot better than the emerald.

    in the case of my monk (a bit off but whatever) 240avg dmg are 58800 dps. 110cd of the emerald are 36234. thats a difference of 22566 dps. on wizards or other classes the difference might be smaller but still significant. if you are playing a wizard, dh or witchdoc or a barb with a skorn i would suggest if you have 40+% weapon dmg to always use a ruby in your weapon.
  • #12
    Quote from Lethmyr


    However if you just compare a 50%weapon dmg ruby (240 avg dmg) with a 110% cd you have to admit that in most cases, if not all, the ruby provides more dps. i played a 230k unbuffed cm wizard with only 250cd and the ruby still was alot better than the emerald.

    in the case of my monk (a bit off but whatever) 240avg dmg are 58800 dps. 110cd of the emerald are 36234. thats a difference of 22566 dps. on wizards or other classes the difference might be smaller but still significant. if you are playing a wizard, dh or witchdoc or a barb with a skorn i would suggest if you have 40+% weapon dmg to always use a ruby in your weapon.


    If you don't run Deep Freeze, such as group play for Bone Chill or Ubers for Cold Snap, then ruby can beat out emerald at certain higher gear levels. In my old SNS gear I had 245CD before emerald and Marq Em was better for me because I ran Deep Freeze. Without DF a ruby would have been like 560 dps gain. 250 CD means 200 CD on gear besides weapon slot which is actually quite a bit for CMWW, since CD should be the last stat added after AR, armor, IAS, CC.

    So for people with that level of gear, Ruby can come out ahead. For those with like 100-200k dps, an Emerald is probably more char sheet dps, but I just tell everyone to use a calculator or spreadsheet to see which is better. For example, with a low damage OH ruby becomes more promising while a high damage OH favors emerald more.
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #13
    I'm gonna have a hard time putting this into words, but weapon% damage already factors into the weapon DPS that you see on the item. So with a ruby or emerald, it doesn't really matter because both will play different roles in boosting your character's DPS depending on all yoir other stats. It'll vary from player to player. At some point or another, they'll offer very similar in benefits (for my wizard I believe it's only approximately 1K difference when unbuffed). But when you're still leveling up, for instance, you have low cc and a ruby is hands down by far the best to use.

    I'll reiterate what Loroese said, because I agree. Just look at which one benefits you more in terms of DPS and go with that.
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  • #14
    ^^ That might be true, but it doesn't change Loroese's original verdict: use whatever gives you the most sheet DPS.

    EDIT: this is directed at Lethmyr.
  • #15
    Quote from Jaetch

    I'm gonna have a hard time putting this into words, but weapon% damage already factors into the weapon DPS that you see on the item. So with a ruby or emerald, it doesn't really matter because both will play different roles in boosting your character's DPS depending on all yoir other stats. It'll vary from player to player. At some point or another, they'll offer very similar in benefits (for my wizard I believe it's only approximately 1K difference when unbuffed). But when you're still leveling up, for instance, you have low cc and a ruby is hands down by far the best to use.

    I'll reiterate what Loroese said, because I agree. Just look at which one benefits you more in terms of DPS and go with that.


    The mention of the weapon damage% is because the ruby damage is modified by that affix, so if you have a 1000-2000 damage weapon without the affix, the weapon becomes 1160 to 2160. If you have 50% weapon damage it instead becomes 1240-2240.

    Pretty every weapon used by players who are considering using a Ruby have weapon damage% though, so it's sort of a moot point, but the amount of damage% does impact where the breakeven point is between the two gems.
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #16
    First of all thanks for your opinions, the "use whatever gives more dps" argument is kinda invalid since BOTH marquise emerald and ruby give me the same dps, with emerald i get + 2.8k dps, with the ruby it's 3k.
    i also know theorycrafting etc etc, but that is not my question ^^ my question was simple (i thought) :P
    I just wanted to know if any1 in the same situation as me (both gems giving the same sheet dps) tested the actual dps, vs a boss or something.
    I ask this because emerald will only benefit on crits and ruby will be on all dmg, and i only have money for one of them, my build is barely affected by IAS (only RoF) and i already have a pretty decent CHD hence my doubt.
    Again ty all for responses and sorry if i seem difficult. xD
    Edit: yes http://eu.battle.net...286/hero/580881 is me, forgot to say that i was EU when i said the tag.
    Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
  • #17
    Quote from Kallizk

    First of all thanks for your opinions, the "use whatever gives more dps" argument is kinda invalid since BOTH marquise emerald and ruby give me the same dps, with emerald i get + 2.8k dps, with the ruby it's 3k.
    i also know theorycrafting etc etc, but that is not my question ^^ my question was simple (i thought) :P
    I just wanted to know if any1 in the same situation as me (both gems giving the same sheet dps) tested the actual dps, vs a boss or something.
    I ask this because emerald will only benefit on crits and ruby will be on all dmg, and i only have money for one of them, my build is barely affected by IAS (only RoF) and i already have a pretty decent CHD hence my doubt.
    Again ty all for responses and sorry if i seem difficult. xD
    Edit: yes http://eu.battle.net...286/hero/580881 is me, forgot to say that i was EU when i said the tag.


    Think of it this way:

    With an emerald and sufficient crit chance:
    - You normally hit for mediocre damage
    - You hit hard when landing crits

    WIth a ruby and the same crit chance:
    - You normally hit for bigger damage
    - You hit just a little harder when landing crits

    And at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter if there is no difference for you; you can use either gem. Personally, I felt little difference when I farmed. My Archon Disintegrate ticks go up to 1.2 million with both ruby and emerald. The difference is just a thousand or so in DPS, in favor of ruby, so I went with a ruby.
    Blizzard Entertainment - Diablo III Community MVP
  • #18
    You can test on a boss if you want but like I said, the damage averages out, especially when using skills like RoF. If 50% of the time you do 100 damage and 50% of the time you do 500 damage, you do 300 damage per hit on average. Instead of you do 400 damage 50% of the time, and 200 damage the other 50%, it still averages to 300 damage per hit. That's basically what the difference between using a ruby or emerald is. After enough hits the average damage is the same. That's more or less the same thing Jaetch just posted, only in different words.

    The only exception is Hydra because it only crits for 50% extra damage, regardless of your actual CD.

    So really, just use whichever gives the higher dps, or whichever is cheaper to make for you.

    That's pretty much what I said in my first post and there isn't really anything else.
    My EHP and DPS Spreadsheet, mostly useful for wizards.
    My wizard, mostly useful for killing demons and collecting loot.
    Wizard CM DPS Simulator, written in Matlab, release version 1.01
    Comprehensive CMWW Guide, including gear and build suggestions, plus Uber strats
    Arcane Mines Guide, detailed guide for the highest dps wizard build, including vids
  • #19
    I guess i was hoping for some definite reason to use one or the other which does not really exist :P
    Well for pvp and fast targets maybe Emerald is better since they die pretty fast when critting, for mp10 solo or ubbers ruby for sustained dps, but since unsocketing marquises is so painful i'll have to decide, thanks for input guys. ;)
    Those Who Do Not Know True Pain Cannot Possibly Understand True Peace...
  • #20
    Quote from Kallizk

    I guess i was hoping for some definite reason to use one or the other which does not really exist


    lol so true. When trying to debate between two things that are just so comparable might as well choose what you think looks cooler and call it a day. It is pretty awesome hovering over a weapon and seeing it have stupid high dps.
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