WW & Sprint RLTW tick frequency mechanics

  • #1
    Hello tornado and whirlwind fans! This post contains the mechanics of these two amazing Barbarian skills that many of us love to use. Among all the useful data you´ll find tick frequency breakpoints that scale with attack per second. I hope it´ll help you make the right gearing decisions to maximize your efficiency at playing this game.

    Enjoy!

    I´ve posted this data also in the official forums
    http://us.battle.net...opic/6037344497

    http://eu.battle.net...opic/4902400739

    Explanation of some terms I use here:
    "tick" - each moment (time) that the game checks for damage and effects of tornadoes and WW (including fury cost)
    "hit" - actual tick hit (damage) on monsters
    "aps" - exact attacks per second value that I calculated manually, it does not always correspond with the character screen details value
    "IAS" - increased attack speed

    All of the conclusions mentioned below are based on actual in-game tests. I´ve researched this by recording each situation using fraps and afterwards I viewed the video in slow motion.

    The process of figuring out the mechanics:
    1. First thing I figured out after the damage values and proc coefficients were tick breakpoints of tornadoes at different aps values by counting the number of tornado ticks.
    2. Based on some WW recordings I made the assumption that it scales with aps in the same way as tornadoes. I found out the specifics of dual-wielding.
    3. I viewed the fury cost of WW with the mouse over the fury globe to find out that it had a fixed fury cost per tick (pre 1.0.5) and that it scales with aps (1.0.5).
    4. After further 1.0.5 (PTR) tests I figured out that each WW tick (damage) corresponds with a fury tick on the fury globe (losing fury) which made it easier for me to find out the actual tick frequency of WW.
    5. I found out that the game usually runs at 60 fps and as I recorded at 60 fps and could view the video frame by frame, I figured out that tick frequency is just a sequence of specific frame lengths (ticks) depending on the aps values.
    6. Having the aps and the corresponding frame length of ticks, I figured out formulas that would allow me to calculate the exact frequency breakpoints for WW and Sprint Run Like the Wind. The researched values were the same as the calculated ones :)
    7. I´m currently in the process of figuring out the new mechanics behind WW fury cost per tick in 1.0.5 that scales with aps.

    Let´s get started already.
    Note that the following data is applicable to the 1.0.5 version of the game. The only differences between 1.0.5 and 1.0.4 were the change in the proc coefficient of Sprint and the WW fury cost change per tick from a set fury cost per tick to fury cost scaling with aps. No changes were made to tick frequency mechanics and breakpoints.

    SPRINT RUN LIKE THE WIND MECHANICS

    1. Tornadoes do 20% main hand base weapon damage per tick. Base weapon damage is the value below DPS in the weapon window. A simplified damage formula (per tick) = 0.2 * (base weapon damage) * (1 + strength/100) * (1 + sum of damage bonuses from skills and gear/100). A critical hit then multiplies the result by (1 + total critical hit damage/100). To calculate your DPS, just multiply the damage per tick by the tick frequency according to the chart I provide below.

    2. Tornadoes have a 0.08 (down from 0.2) proc coefficient, which means that:
    a ) each tornado tick heals you for 8% of your total life on hit value,
    b ) each tornado tick has a 8% chance to generate 3 fury when you equip a Mighty Weapon in your main hand and use the passive skill Weapons Master,
    c ) each tornado tick has a 8% chance to activate an on hit proc effect from a legendary weapon,
    d ) each tornado Critical Hit has a 8% chance to:
    - generate 15 fury when Into the Fray is active,
    - create a blood explosion when Bloodshed or Slaughter is active; note that the patch notes for version 1.0.2b of the game state that Bloodshed and Slaughter effects can´t be triggered by each other´s critical hits,
    - lower the cooldown of Overpower by 1 second


    3. Tornado tick frequency scales with attacks per second (chart below).

    4. When dual-wielding, tornado tick frequency depends on the attacks per second (aps) of the last weapon swung before using Sprint.


    WHIRLWIND MECHANICS

    1. WW does 145%/3 (48.33%) base weapon damage per tick. Volcanic Eruption rune does Volcanic Eruption rune does 145% * 1.3 / 3 (62.83%) base weapon damage per tick. The damage formula is the same as for tornadoes, just change the 0.2 modifier to 0.4833 or 0.6283 depending on what rune you use.

    2. WW has a 0.13 proc coefficient. The effects are the same as with Tornadoes, but they now have a higher probability (13%) to happen.

    3. WW tick frequency scales with aps the same way tornado tick frequency does, they even have the same breakpoints.

    4. WW fury cost scales with aps in 1.0.5 while it had a fixed fury cost per tick in the previous versions of the game; now the more aps you have the less fury it costs per tick. The fury cost ranges from 3 fury per tick at the lowest aps to 1.634 fury per tick at 4.4472 aps. You´ll find the average fury cost per tick values on tick frequency breakpoints below (to be done).

    5. When dual-wielding:
    a) WW alternates between weapons to deal damage beginning with the weapon you are about to swing before using WW
    b ) WW tick frequency depends on the weapon you are about to swing not the weapon you swung before using WW (exact opposite of Sprint)
    c) WW fury cost per tick (for the whole duration of WW until you stop spinning) depends on the weapon you are about to swing before using WW. It does not alternate between the weapons and their individual WW fury cost.


    You may have noticed that the tick frequency source when dual wielding is different for Sprint and WW. Sprint frequency depends on the weapon you swung last before sprinting while WW frequency depends on the weapon you are about to swing (not the weapon you swung last before WW). If you click both skills at the same time and if the MH/OH tick frequencies are different, Sprint and WW will tick at different frequencies.


    WHIRLWIND/SPRINT RLTW FORMULAS:

    Tick frame length = (20 / aps); rounded down to the nearest whole number
    Number of tornado ticks = (180 / frame length); rounded up to the nearest whole number
    Ticks per second = (60 / frame length)


    ATTACKS PER SECOND - FRAME LENGTH - TICK FREQUENCY - # OF TORNADO TICKS
    0.86957-0.90909 aps - 22 frames per tick - 2.73 ticks per second - 9 ticks
    0.90910-0.95238 aps - 21 frames per tick - 2.86 ticks per second - 9 ticks
    0.95239-1.00000 aps - 20 frames per tick - 3.00 ticks per second - 9 ticks
    1.00001-1.05263 aps - 19 frames per tick - 3.16 ticks per second - 10 ticks
    1.05264-1.11111 aps - 18 frames per tick - 3.33 ticks per second - 10 ticks
    1.11112-1.17647 aps - 17 frames per tick - 3.53 ticks per second - 11 ticks
    1.17648-1.25000 aps - 16 frames per tick - 3.75 ticks per second - 12 ticks
    1.25001-1.33333 aps - 15 frames per tick - 4.00 ticks per second - 12 ticks
    1.33334-1.42857 aps - 14 frames per tick - 4.29 ticks per second - 13 ticks
    1.42858-1.53846 aps - 13 frames per tick - 4.62 ticks per second - 14 ticks
    1.53847-1.66666 aps - 12 frames per tick - 5.00 ticks per second - 15 ticks
    1.66667-1.81818 aps - 11 frames per tick - 5.45 ticks per second - 17 ticks
    1.81819-2.00000 aps - 10 frames per tick - 6.00 ticks per second - 18 ticks
    2.00001-2.22222 aps - 9 frames per tick - 6.67 ticks per second - 20 ticks
    2.22223-2.50000 aps - 8 frames per tick - 7.50 ticks per second - 23 ticks
    2.50001-2.85714 aps - 7 frames per tick - 8.57 ticks per second - 26 ticks
    2.85715-3.33333 aps - 6 frames per tick - 10.0 ticks per second - 30 ticks
    3.33334-4.00000 aps - 5 frames per tick - 12.0 ticks per second - 36 ticks
    4.00001-5.00000 aps - 4 frames per tick - 15.0 ticks per second - 45 ticks
    5.00001-6.66666 aps - 3 frames per tick - 20.0 ticks per second - 60 ticks
    6.66667-10.00000 aps - 2 frames per tick - 30.0 ticks per second - 90 ticks
    10.00001-20.00000 aps - 1 frame per tick - 60.0 ticks per second - 180 ticks


    Note that I provided up to 5 decimal numbers for aps values but the most accurate way to describe the mechanics is as follows:

    22 frames per tick: 22 =
    21 frames per tick: 21 =
    20 frames per tick: 20 =
    19 frames per tick: 19 =
    18 frames per tick: 18 =
    17 frames per tick: 17 =
    16 frames per tick: 16 =
    15 frames per tick: 15 =
    14 frames per tick: 14 =
    13 frames per tick: 13 =
    12 frames per tick: 12 =
    11 frames per tick: 11 =
    10 frames per tick: 10 =
    9 frames per tick: 9 =
    8 frames per tick: 8 =
    7 frames per tick: 7 =
    6 frames per tick: 6 =
    5 frames per tick: 5 =
    4 frames per tick: 4 =
    3 frames per tick: 3 =
    2 frames per tick: 2 =
    1 frame per tick: 1 =


    You don´t need to round anything if you apply the second chart.

    Notes:

    1. You have to calculate your attacks per second value manually as the ingame character screen is rounding the values and can be misleading when applied to this chart.
    Attacks per second formula = ((base weapon aps * weapon IAS) + (attacks per second from legendaries and enchantress)) * (gear IAS + skill IAS + dual wield IAS)

    NEW! WW/Sprint aps breakpoints calculator (provided by Twister)

    https://docs.google....Y1Q0pWR2c#gid=0

    2. The initial (first) WW tick has a different frame length than the rest. It is unknown why, but for the purpose of utilizing the chart, ignore the first tick.

    -------------
    Special thanks to Twister who gave me parts of his gear on the PTR to find out the highest possible tick frequency which kind of forced me to continue my research and eventually figure out the exact mechanics. Also thanks for the breakpoint calculator

    Hope you enjoyed reading this post. Share the knowledge and have fun.
  • #2
    Im sorry if you already stated this, or if it even has any relevance. But it seems to me that you have to run a minimum distance to spawn a tornado, if you circle a small mob you will get 1 circle if youre lucky, however if you run in a straight line or bigger curvers you get more tornadoes.

    Hope it helps :)
  • #3
    Would attack speed from frenzy affect number of tornado ticks?
  • #4
    Quote from Cahphoenix

    Would attack speed from frenzy affect number of tornado ticks?


    I'm not sure, as I don't really like Whirlwind + Tornado. But wouldn't Maniac be better anyway?
  • #5
    Your question doesn't make any sense. I'll try to perform tests to see. I'm wondering if the Attack speed granted by the base frenzy skill affects the number of ticks registered by tornadoes, seems to me like it does...but again just an eye test.
  • #6
    Amazing work! Deserves to be seen by more people. So, just to simply all this: Mace main hand with highest damage (not DPS) as possible and dagger off hand with at least 7% IAS?
  • #7
    Yes Twerkulator, but highest possible damage Mace with 1.20 attacks per second so that in case of tornadoes ticking at the frequency of your Dagger you get the highest boost...but maybe also wait and don´t spend tons of gold before 1.0.4 or at least until it´s clear that sprint tornadoes won´t be nerfed.
  • #8
    Quote from Nubtro

    Yes Twerkulator, but highest possible damage Mace with 1.20 attacks per second so that in case of tornadoes ticking at the frequency of your Dagger you get the highest boost...but maybe also wait and don´t spend tons of gold before 1.0.4 or at least until it´s clear that sprint tornadoes won´t be nerfed.


    It looks like you put a lot of time into this so I'm not sure how much this skews your results, but the 3% ias from the enchantress is +.03 aps to each weapon prior to IAS on gear. It is not 3% ias.
  • #9
    Quote from Nubtro

    Yes Twerkulator, but highest possible damage Mace with 1.20 attacks per second so that in case of tornadoes ticking at the frequency of your Dagger you get the highest boost...but maybe also wait and don´t spend tons of gold before 1.0.4 or at least until it´s clear that sprint tornadoes won´t be nerfed.


    I see. Thanks you for the suggestion. I hope they don't as I don't feel it's overpowered; rather the other classes are under powered. If anything, it's well balanced. Also, considering the majority of our damage comes from the tornados as WW barbs, the next logical step would be to maximize this damage and not focus on display DPS as much. How could I determine what would be the most valuable upgrade for my tornado damage? In terms of IAS, crit chance, crit damage, etc. I imagine it varies per current stats.

    Edit: I've had the following questions bugging me and though this would be the most appropriate location to ask.

    1. Does strength factor into tornado damage at all?

    2. What stats do factor into tornado damage? (I know main hand damage/active attack speed/IAS but what else? Crit damage/crit chance?)

    3. Taking everything into account, how can I calculate my tornado damage?

    4. Wouldn't it be superior to forgo stacking strength as much assuming it does not play into tornado damage and stack stats that do?
  • #10
    1. Yes it does. Strength boosts all damage you do as a Barb. The modifier is (strength/100) + 1. So with 1100 strength you do 12x weapon damage.

    2. Main hand weapon damage (20% per tick) multiplied by strength modifier, multiplied by skill modifiers (like Battle Rage). If you want tornado damage per second, multiply that by tick frequency per second.

    IAS is accounted for in the tick frequency chart. Active attack speed = (base weapon speed * weapon IAS) * sum of IAS from gear/skills

    Crit chance and crit damage just means that you have x (crit chance) to do y times (1 + (crit damage/100)) more damage than on normal hits.

    3. Let´s see:

    Tornado tick damage = Main hand base weapon damage * strength modifier (1 + (strength/100)) * modifier from skills and gear (1 + (sum of skill/gear modifier values / 100) * 1/5 * (critical hit chance/100) * (1 + (crit damage value / 100))

    Multiply the result by tornado tick frequency (ticks per second) to get damage per second.

    4. No strength is very important, it gives you more damage and armor. To maximize damage you´d want strength, crit chance, crit damage and enough IAS for the next tick frequency breakpoint.

    Hope I made no mistakes. Example my Barb:
    1659 str
    45% CH chance
    +264% CH damage
    +15% dmg Into the fray
    main hand 382-842 mace (1.20 aps)
    off hand 1.50 aps dagger
    15% IAS dual-wield
    6% IAS gloves

    Tornado tick damage = (382-842) * 17.59 * 1.15 * (0.45 * 3.64) * 0.2 = (382-842) * 6.6268566 = 2532-5580

    4.67 ticks per second with mace = 11816-26040 damage per second (18928 average)
    6 ticks per second with dagger = 15192-33480 damage per second (24336 average)

    That´s one tornado. Note that I´d do more damage with the dagger aps if my gloves had 7% IAS instead of 6.

    Now let´s see what happens with Thrive on chaos. The crit modifier changes from 1.638 (0.45 * 3.64) to 2.002 (0.55 * 3.64) and my tick frequency on the mace increases from 4.67 tps to 5.67 tps and on the dagger from 6 to 6.67 tps. That´s +22.2% from crit modifier and +21.4% from mace frequency (11.1% from dagger frequency) which means 43.6% more damage when it ticks with mace frequency and 33.3% more damage when it ticks with dagger frequency.
  • #11
    Awesome! Thank you for clearing all that up. I'm sure it will help a lot of people.
  • #12
    I heard in a video guide that tornado tick frequency alternates between main- and off-hand. Are you sure, that it is only affected by the weapon that you swung last?
    Pretty hard to asure you always hit something with your offhand before sprinting :-(
  • #13
    I´m sure that person got that info from my research. Anyway yes in the middle of a battle it´s impossible to knowingly apply this but in the instances where you mostly sprint in-between packs you can.

    Also that´s how it works, I wouldn´t have posted it otherwise. It´s pretty easy to spot for everyone if the aps difference between main hand and off hand is large enough.

    This data is useful for those who want to optimize their builds, as they need to know how the skill mechanics work to adjust properly.
  • #14
    So, lets assume that I am good regarding fury management and I keep whirlwinding at least 80% of the fight, then my aps alternates between main and offhandseveral times within a second. Hence, a large aps difference between them is best to optimize DPS, isn't it?

    (I run with 1,29 mace in main, 1.4 sword in offhand).
  • #15
    Quote from Ghouul

    So, lets assume that I am good regarding fury management and I keep whirlwinding at least 80% of the fight, then my aps alternates between main and offhandseveral times within a second. Hence, a large aps difference between them is best to optimize DPS, isn't it?

    (I run with 1,29 mace in main, 1.4 sword in offhand).


    A friend of mine actually dropped WW from his build for a little bit and was using a dagger with 20ias so his nados did more damage, since it was much easier to control which weapon is active. He no longer plays so I'm not sure what his results were. It'd be interesting to see something that compared total dmg vs the "better" nado dmg.
  • #16
    Quote from Nubtro

    5. The main focus of this research. The number of tornado ticks depends on the attacks per second value and scales as follows:

    0.90-1.00 attacks per second = 9 tornado ticks over 3 seconds
    1.01-1.11 attacks per second = 10 ticks over 3 seconds = 3 ticks per second (tps)
    1.12-1.17 attacks per second = 11 ticks over 3 seconds = 3.67 tps
    1.18-1.32 attacks per second = 12 ticks over 3 seconds = 4 tps
    1.33-1.43 attacks per second = 13 ticks over 3 seconds = 4.33 tps
    1.44-1.536 attacks per second = 14 ticks over 3 seconds = 4.67 tps
    1.54-1.665 attacks per second = 15 ticks over 3 seconds = 5 tps
    1.67-1.815 attacks per second = 17 ticks over 3 seconds = 5.67 tps
    1.82-1.998 attacks per second = 18 ticks over 3 seconds = 6 tps
    2.00-2.22 attacks per second = 20 ticks over 3 seconds = 6.67 tps
    2.23-2.4975 attacks per second = 23 ticks over 3 seconds = 7.67 tps
    2.50-2.8512 attacks per second = 26 ticks over 3 seconds = 8.67 tps
    2.86-2.98035 attacks per second = 30 ticks over 3 seconds = 10 tps

    Amazing work - and i guess an rather time consuming research!
    I've taken this information and made a speadsheet to calculate needed "attack speed increases (ASI)" on gear to reach tick-breakpoints: https://docs.google....BLTmxHUEE#gid=0

    Edit: New URL: https://docs.google....hoWmZjYWc#gid=0
  • #17
    What's your opinion of the new 2 handed legendary weapon the Skorn? I know the DPS skyrockets when using it but my concern is the attack speed and other bonuses like dual wielding. Could you calculate the impact it would have vs an example dual wield setup?
  • #18
    With Echoing Fury and a dagger you could get some very high aps values since the aps on Echoing Fury is added on to the offhand as well.

    Ie. 11% aps dagger (1.67) + 0.25 from Echoing Fury is 1.92 base aps before applying attack speed bonuses from gear.
  • #19
    Hmm.. could indeed be interesting for theorycrafting. However for the downside of "Echoing Fury" is the high Value of "Chance to Fear on Hit" (10-20%) on that weapon - fearing enemys out of the tornados
  • #20
    The mobs often stand in place or move a short distance.

    I guess with low dps where you have to ww for an extended period it could have a negative impact.

    The fear can save hits theoretically allowing you to wear more damage at the expense of survivability.
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