Does anybody know how the different forms of damage implementation (formula wise) are figured out?
The ones I can think of off the top of my head are:
weapon damage
additional damage
more damage
increases the damage
As you can see, the wording is quite vague and confusing. I'm just trying to figure out how to calculate some stuff and have no idea which figures to start with XD
All the wording most likely means the same thing. Blizzard is sometimes sloppy with how they word things on the calculator, but you can usually use common sense to figure out how an ability works. All that stuff probably means the same thing.
I think the +%damage adds on to the end of whatever your damage is. It'll give you the same numbers if you just increase your weapon damage by the given percentage too.
So if your weapon damage is 300 and you're using an ability that does 200% weapon damage and you have passives, etc that increase your damage by 30% you end up with 780 damage. You calculate it by either doing 300 x 2.00 + 30% or 300 + 30% x 2.00. In both cases you get 780.
With a crazy build like this you could be doing the following damage:
Let's say your weapon damage is 300 and you have 100 fury. If you have max fury and use Dread Bomb with all these buffs up you would do 2250 damage in a single Dread Bomb with a 300 damage weapon. Of course you would have to have all these buffs which is unrealistic.
As for an ability like Magic Weapon... it probably won't stay the same but from what it says right now I would guess that it increases your physical damage by 15% but doesn't increase your base weapon damage or the damage of non-physical attacks. So Explosive Blast will do 15% more damage, but Meteor won't.
One exeception to all this are the affixes that increase min/max damage. So like your damage will increase by 20-40 (like with Rubys). Such affixes make the damage increase much better early in the game when you have a low damage weapon, vs later in the game when it's probably less useful. At this point I think there are too many abilities that give you +%damage. It seems like a lot of them are just filler.
All this being said though... perhaps +%damage isn't additive like this? I'm not quite sure how you'd calculate it if that's the case.
Yeah, by the way, when I say additive I mean just in the sense that you add up all the percentages lol... don't think I really understand the difference between multiplicative and additive >.<
I don't see how +%damage could work any other way than this though. Other stats that have a ceiling like crit, dodge, armor are different. But perhaps there's some other kind of diminishing returns involved when stacking all these sources of +%damage.
Yeah that sounds right, I figured it was either one of two things:
the wording affected WHEN you factored in the corresponding percentage
it all meant the same thing
I was mainly curious, because I came up with what I think will be a pretty high potential monk build, but I'm not quite sure how to factor in all the buffs it receieves, after figuring the prebuffed damage. Maybe that was a mistake and I needed to calculate everything together?
Anyways, this is the math I'm a bit stumped on:
Combo 7 should net approximately 110(1.25+.18) + 110(1+.18+.75) + 110(1+.18) = 499.4% weapon damage
Combo 8 should net approximately 110(1+.18+.75) + 110(1+.18) + 110(1.25+.18+2.5+.75) = 856.9% weapon damage
Combo 9 should net approximately 110(1+.18) + 110(1+.18+.75) + 110(1.25+.18+2.5) = 774.4% weapon damage
I figured it all additively like you said (I think thats the proper way yeah?). Its done with the assumption of using a weapon with 100 average damage and 1.1 attacks per second.
The buffs I'm stumped on how to factor in are at the bottom of the first post.
edit:
the difference so far as I remember (its been a while since I took algebra lol), is that additive means doing figures like I did above, and multiplicative means doing things like 110*.2*.25 = 5.5 whereas the additive version would be 110(.2+.25) = 49.5...don't quote me on that though lol
This is pretty long. But I wanted to space it out so it could be read easier.
Let's see... I'll assume a few things off the bat.
1) You can keep combination strike at 24% with 3 generators using each generator just once. 2) Overawe stays at 24%. I wasn't sure exactly how to add it in... maybe I'll edit this later.
And then also I'll try to normalize everything to 1sec (that's where the division comes in).
That DPS is probably on the low end though because I would imagine you could do more than one spirit generator per second. On the other hand, you still have to cast the other buffs that I didn't really take into account.
Still though, if you can get off more than one spirit generator per sec, and cast Windforce Flurry more than once every 6sec, your damage will get higher for sure.
Might be interesting to see the DPS if you can get off a generator every 0.75sec for example. The speed that you can attack is critical for this build because you need to get as many HF casts as possible. So if you can go from one every sec to one every 0.75sec, your DPS will go up a lot.
But at the same time, you have to cast Breath of Heaven and Overawe on a regular basis so it might average out to 1 generator per sec.
_________________________
It may be better to scrap the Mystic Ally and get a better spirit spender to dump all this spirit into instead of using Overawe. Maybe use Cyclone Strike w/ Soothing Breeze for even more healing.
Yeah, I was planning on having the rotation be 2 Windforce Flurries to every 1 Sweeping Wind, in terms of finishers. At least once the Blade Storm stacks were up and running.
Also, I was taking into account that Mantra of Conviction will be up as much as possible, as it is the only spirit dump, so it should be figured in at 48% not 24%.
I based my math on assuming that each tick of Blade Storm would occur every 2 hits, so I assumed you could do ~2 attacks in one second.
As far as the timing on casting all the things, from what I can tell in the beta, I don't think theres a global cooldown (like in WoW, for instance). So I don't think having to "stop" to reactivate the buffs will lose that much time, at least I'm hoping that will be the case.
How you figured it, you just added up all the buffs and applied them to every hit? Thats what I wasn't sure on, if I was supposed to add them INTO the calculations, or factor them in once they were done.
edit:
Also, I'm curious why, once you calculated combo 7's damage, you then divided it by 3? For the dps? I think to figure out the total average of the 3 combos (because in terms of total damage, combo 7 is the lowest, while 8 is the highest and 9 is inbetweem) though, you'd have to figure the damage on all 3, add the 3 totals up and divide by 3 to get the average, then divide again by 3 to get the dps.
Of course, thats assuming each attack takes a whole second which I don't think will be the case either lol
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The ones I can think of off the top of my head are:
I think the +%damage adds on to the end of whatever your damage is. It'll give you the same numbers if you just increase your weapon damage by the given percentage too.
So if your weapon damage is 300 and you're using an ability that does 200% weapon damage and you have passives, etc that increase your damage by 30% you end up with 780 damage. You calculate it by either doing 300 x 2.00 + 30% or 300 + 30% x 2.00. In both cases you get 780.
With a crazy build like this you could be doing the following damage:
http://us.battle.net...ePVS!YgX!YZYZcZ
Bash:30%
Frenzy:20%
Battle Rage:30%
WotB:100%
Weapons Master:15%
Brawler:30%
Berserker Rage:25%
+250% damage
Let's say your weapon damage is 300 and you have 100 fury. If you have max fury and use Dread Bomb with all these buffs up you would do 2250 damage in a single Dread Bomb with a 300 damage weapon. Of course you would have to have all these buffs which is unrealistic.
As for an ability like Magic Weapon... it probably won't stay the same but from what it says right now I would guess that it increases your physical damage by 15% but doesn't increase your base weapon damage or the damage of non-physical attacks. So Explosive Blast will do 15% more damage, but Meteor won't.
One exeception to all this are the affixes that increase min/max damage. So like your damage will increase by 20-40 (like with Rubys). Such affixes make the damage increase much better early in the game when you have a low damage weapon, vs later in the game when it's probably less useful. At this point I think there are too many abilities that give you +%damage. It seems like a lot of them are just filler.
All this being said though... perhaps +%damage isn't additive like this? I'm not quite sure how you'd calculate it if that's the case.
I don't see how +%damage could work any other way than this though. Other stats that have a ceiling like crit, dodge, armor are different. But perhaps there's some other kind of diminishing returns involved when stacking all these sources of +%damage.
Anyways, this is the math I'm a bit stumped on:
Combo 7 should net approximately 110(1.25+.18) + 110(1+.18+.75) + 110(1+.18) = 499.4% weapon damage
Combo 8 should net approximately 110(1+.18+.75) + 110(1+.18) + 110(1.25+.18+2.5+.75) = 856.9% weapon damage
Combo 9 should net approximately 110(1+.18) + 110(1+.18+.75) + 110(1.25+.18+2.5) = 774.4% weapon damage
I figured it all additively like you said (I think thats the proper way yeah?). Its done with the assumption of using a weapon with 100 average damage and 1.1 attacks per second.
These combos are in refernce to this:
7 - HF, DR, SW
8 - SW, DR, HF
9 - SW, DR, HF
repeat combos 6-7 indefintely
and the build is here:
http://us.battle.net...opic/4138434631
The buffs I'm stumped on how to factor in are at the bottom of the first post.
edit:
the difference so far as I remember (its been a while since I took algebra lol), is that additive means doing figures like I did above, and multiplicative means doing things like 110*.2*.25 = 5.5 whereas the additive version would be 110(.2+.25) = 49.5...don't quote me on that though lol
Let's see... I'll assume a few things off the bat.
1) You can keep combination strike at 24% with 3 generators using each generator just once. 2) Overawe stays at 24%. I wasn't sure exactly how to add it in... maybe I'll edit this later.
And then also I'll try to normalize everything to 1sec (that's where the division comes in).
Combination Strike: 24% (3sec)
Guiding Light: 16% (15sec)
Breath of Heaven: 15% (45sec)
Mantra of Conviction: 24% (180sec)
Foresight: 18% (30sec)
=+97% increased damage
HF=110(1.25)=137.5
HF=137.5(1.97)=270.9
DR=110(1.00)=110
DR=110(1.97)=216.7
SW=110(1.00)=110
SW=110(1.97)=216.7
Windforce Flurry=110(2.5)=275
Windforce Flurry=275(1.97)=541.8
Windforce Flurry=541.8/6=90.3
Blade Storm=110(0.75)=82.5
Blade Storm=82.5(1.97)=162.6
Blade Storm=162.6/2=81.2
Mystic Ally=110(0.40)=44
Mystic Ally=44(1.97)=86.7
Mystic Ally=110(0.10)=11
Mystic Ally=11(1.97)=21.7
_________________________
It would like this:
HF=270.9
DR=216.7
SW=216.7
Windforce Flurry would do 541.8 damage every 6sec. So 90.3 damage/sec on average.
Bladestorm would do 162.6 damage every 2sec. So 81.2 damage/sec on average.
Mystic Ally would do 86.7 damage every 1sec with its attack and 21.7 damage every 1sec with its wind torrent.
So you could do something like:
270.9 + 216.7 + 216.7 = 704.3
704.3/3=234.8
234.8+90.3+81.2+86.7+21.7=514.7
Comes out to 514.7 DPS.
_________________________
That DPS is probably on the low end though because I would imagine you could do more than one spirit generator per second. On the other hand, you still have to cast the other buffs that I didn't really take into account.
Still though, if you can get off more than one spirit generator per sec, and cast Windforce Flurry more than once every 6sec, your damage will get higher for sure.
Might be interesting to see the DPS if you can get off a generator every 0.75sec for example. The speed that you can attack is critical for this build because you need to get as many HF casts as possible. So if you can go from one every sec to one every 0.75sec, your DPS will go up a lot.
But at the same time, you have to cast Breath of Heaven and Overawe on a regular basis so it might average out to 1 generator per sec.
_________________________
It may be better to scrap the Mystic Ally and get a better spirit spender to dump all this spirit into instead of using Overawe. Maybe use Cyclone Strike w/ Soothing Breeze for even more healing.
Also, I was taking into account that Mantra of Conviction will be up as much as possible, as it is the only spirit dump, so it should be figured in at 48% not 24%.
I based my math on assuming that each tick of Blade Storm would occur every 2 hits, so I assumed you could do ~2 attacks in one second.
As far as the timing on casting all the things, from what I can tell in the beta, I don't think theres a global cooldown (like in WoW, for instance). So I don't think having to "stop" to reactivate the buffs will lose that much time, at least I'm hoping that will be the case.
How you figured it, you just added up all the buffs and applied them to every hit? Thats what I wasn't sure on, if I was supposed to add them INTO the calculations, or factor them in once they were done.
edit:
Also, I'm curious why, once you calculated combo 7's damage, you then divided it by 3? For the dps? I think to figure out the total average of the 3 combos (because in terms of total damage, combo 7 is the lowest, while 8 is the highest and 9 is inbetweem) though, you'd have to figure the damage on all 3, add the 3 totals up and divide by 3 to get the average, then divide again by 3 to get the dps.
Of course, thats assuming each attack takes a whole second which I don't think will be the case either lol