Cains Death wasn't epic enough.

  • #21
    To start with, I don't really agree with the idea that a characters death should be "epic." I think he should have died in between Act 1 and 2 because he tripped and broke a hip, and they had to put him down (now THAT would be an epic cutscene).

    What I really don't like though, is that Blizzard keeps doing these stupid in engine cinematics. They...need...to...stop. NOW. I can't think of a single good in game cinematic, in any of their games, even more so compared to their balls to the walls awesome rendered ones. It's like they completely forgot that so much of conversation is in body language, and then only gave all the models two or three actions that they just repeat. Translation - you should have walked in as Cain is dying (no talking, just walk in, Leah goes "noooooo" kaboom, "cain fixes the sword" and then cut to the summary cutscene that is voiced by your character. That would also do away with the second problem - they tell you what happens (tell, not showed, 3rd problem) twice. Once in the cutscene, and again in the voice over cutscene.
  • #22
    Quote from TheDFO

    To start with, I don't really agree with the idea that a characters death should be "epic." I think he should have died in between Act 1 and 2 because he tripped and broke a hip, and they had to put him down (now THAT would be an epic cutscene).

    What I really don't like though, is that Blizzard keeps doing these stupid in engine cinematics. They...need...to...stop. NOW. I can't think of a single good in game cinematic, in any of their games, even more so compared to their balls to the walls awesome rendered ones. It's like they completely forgot that so much of conversation is in body language, and then only gave all the models two or three actions that they just repeat. Translation - you should have walked in as Cain is dying (no talking, just walk in, Leah goes "noooooo" kaboom, "cain fixes the sword" and then cut to the summary cutscene that is voiced by your character. That would also do away with the second problem - they tell you what happens (tell, not showed, 3rd problem) twice. Once in the cutscene, and again in the voice over cutscene.


    I think the reason they do a few cinematics in-game is because they don't have time to make a ton of those beautiful animated cinematics. I remember this being the case of the expansion pack for WarCraft III. A fight between Illidan and Arthas was made using the in-game engine, and they later said they planned to have that being a fully animated cinematic, but had to cut it due to time constraints.
  • #23
    Quote from Tzalix

    Quote from TheDFO

    To start with, I don't really agree with the idea that a characters death should be "epic." I think he should have died in between Act 1 and 2 because he tripped and broke a hip, and they had to put him down (now THAT would be an epic cutscene).

    What I really don't like though, is that Blizzard keeps doing these stupid in engine cinematics. They...need...to...stop. NOW. I can't think of a single good in game cinematic, in any of their games, even more so compared to their balls to the walls awesome rendered ones. It's like they completely forgot that so much of conversation is in body language, and then only gave all the models two or three actions that they just repeat. Translation - you should have walked in as Cain is dying (no talking, just walk in, Leah goes "noooooo" kaboom, "cain fixes the sword" and then cut to the summary cutscene that is voiced by your character. That would also do away with the second problem - they tell you what happens (tell, not showed, 3rd problem) twice. Once in the cutscene, and again in the voice over cutscene.


    I think the reason they do a few cinematics in-game is because they don't have time to make a ton of those beautiful animated cinematics. I remember this being the case of the expansion pack for WarCraft III. A fight between Illidan and Arthas was made using the in-game engine, and they later said they planned to have that being a fully animated cinematic, but had to cut it due to time constraints.
    Yeah but at least that was a really cool fight, Cain's death didn't even look like they put effort into it.
    Bashiok - Blizzard Representative - 08/01/2011 -"So how many skill combinations are there now? Well taking into account 6 active skills, all the rune combinations, and 3 passives we currently expect each class to have roughly 2,285,814,795,264 different build combinations."

    "Hey, I thought you'd like the witty irony of grub-on-glowie violence!"
  • #24
    Quote from Tzalix

    Quote from TheDFO

    To start with, I don't really agree with the idea that a characters death should be "epic." I think he should have died in between Act 1 and 2 because he tripped and broke a hip, and they had to put him down (now THAT would be an epic cutscene).

    What I really don't like though, is that Blizzard keeps doing these stupid in engine cinematics. They...need...to...stop. NOW. I can't think of a single good in game cinematic, in any of their games, even more so compared to their balls to the walls awesome rendered ones. It's like they completely forgot that so much of conversation is in body language, and then only gave all the models two or three actions that they just repeat. Translation - you should have walked in as Cain is dying (no talking, just walk in, Leah goes "noooooo" kaboom, "cain fixes the sword" and then cut to the summary cutscene that is voiced by your character. That would also do away with the second problem - they tell you what happens (tell, not showed, 3rd problem) twice. Once in the cutscene, and again in the voice over cutscene.


    I think the reason they do a few cinematics in-game is because they don't have time to make a ton of those beautiful animated cinematics. I remember this being the case of the expansion pack for WarCraft III. A fight between Illidan and Arthas was made using the in-game engine, and they later said they planned to have that being a fully animated cinematic, but had to cut it due to time constraints.


    Yeah, I kinda understand the reason WHY they did it, but I still think they shouldn't have, because the in game engine is not capable of decent cinematics. The fight between Illidan and Arthas wasn't good. It wasn't even exciting. Further, the in game cinematics from War3 and SC2 are slightly different. They were either from the RTS camera angle, in which case there weren't any "acting" beyond the talking, so it was at least passable, or they were the ones in SC2 that were, even if built in the in game engine, specifically built for the cutscene - along with body language and motion. The ones in D3 are close enough that it is weird if they don't do anything, and close enough to show off bad/reused body language, mostly using stock motions. This is one thing that bothers me about CGI in a lot of games and movies - just because you CAN doesn't mean you should. If the CGI is so bad it distracts, then you should probably find another way to do it.
  • #25
    The weakness of the in-game cutscenes doesn't even get at how bad Cain's death was. He died to some freaking RED BUTTERFLIES, practically by accident as Magdha was only torturing him! That's what is wrong. Poison, a blade, a rack, fire, anything would be better than fairy butterfly magic.
  • #26
    "Stay awhile and listhen..to my randition of Twilight"

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
    I just want a little bit of tenderness :(

  • #27
    Quote from FoxBatD2

    The weakness of the in-game cutscenes doesn't even get at how bad Cain's death was. He died to some freaking RED BUTTERFLIES, practically by accident as Magdha was only torturing him! That's what is wrong. Poison, a blade, a rack, fire, anything would be better than fairy butterfly magic.


    Well, at least it wasn't to Ghom. He could have been sat on, eaten alive, killed and fed to other prisoners then they get eaten, suffocated in Ghom's gas clouds, or killed by his stomach acid slimes or whatever those are supposed to be...
    Non nobis, Domine, non nobis sed nomini tuo da gloriam.
  • #28
    Quote from FoxBatD2

    The weakness of the in-game cutscenes doesn't even get at how bad Cain's death was. He died to some freaking RED BUTTERFLIES, practically by accident as Magdha was only torturing him! That's what is wrong. Poison, a blade, a rack, fire, anything would be better than fairy butterfly magic.


    Well, technically it was supposed to be Leah who killed him, cause she couldn't control her power. I get where they were going with that. If they story went a different way, they could have used that accident to drive Leah insane, which would have been a better way for Diablo to posess her, imo.

    But that goes down a whole other path that I thought they were going - Leah slowly breaks down from killing her uncle/all the crazy horrors she's seen/Diablo poisoning her mind, and starts to resent the PC/Tyreal/Adria because Deckard died for no reasons, as the end of the world isn't coming and/or there aren't actually angels and demons fighting a proxy war through us (which is how I read her comments that "no of this is real," not dismissing the fact that monsters exists, as so many people assume, but that the end times aren't upon us, and the forces of Hell and Heaven aren't fighting a proxy war in Sanctuary). All this could have been building subtly (maybe we get a cinematic or two where we wander by Leah and she's talking to herself, and for some reason we can hear that one of the voices is Diablo, and we can tell that because its slightly demonic reverbed), until at the end of Act 3, where she voluntairly takes the BSS, stabs it into herself, becomes Diablo, kills Adria, and runs off to Heaven.
  • #29
    Quote from TheDFO

    Quote from FoxBatD2

    The weakness of the in-game cutscenes doesn't even get at how bad Cain's death was. He died to some freaking RED BUTTERFLIES, practically by accident as Magdha was only torturing him! That's what is wrong. Poison, a blade, a rack, fire, anything would be better than fairy butterfly magic.


    Well, technically it was supposed to be Leah who killed him, cause she couldn't control her power. I get where they were going with that. If they story went a different way, they could have used that accident to drive Leah insane, which would have been a better way for Diablo to posess her, imo.

    But that goes down a whole other path that I thought they were going - Leah slowly breaks down from killing her uncle/all the crazy horrors she's seen/Diablo poisoning her mind, and starts to resent the PC/Tyreal/Adria because Deckard died for no reasons, as the end of the world isn't coming and/or there aren't actually angels and demons fighting a proxy war through us (which is how I read her comments that "no of this is real," not dismissing the fact that monsters exists, as so many people assume, but that the end times aren't upon us, and the forces of Hell and Heaven aren't fighting a proxy war in Sanctuary). All this could have been building subtly (maybe we get a cinematic or two where we wander by Leah and she's talking to herself, and for some reason we can hear that one of the voices is Diablo, and we can tell that because its slightly demonic reverbed), until at the end of Act 3, where she voluntairly takes the BSS, stabs it into herself, becomes Diablo, kills Adria, and runs off to Heaven.
    THAT, would have been one hell of a story
    Bashiok - Blizzard Representative - 08/01/2011 -"So how many skill combinations are there now? Well taking into account 6 active skills, all the rune combinations, and 3 passives we currently expect each class to have roughly 2,285,814,795,264 different build combinations."

    "Hey, I thought you'd like the witty irony of grub-on-glowie violence!"
  • #30
    No worries, he'll be back in expansions
  • #31
    i personally found the whole attacks on cain upsetting(?) and am glad that they "Killed him off" they way they did than have him blown in the smithereens or slaughtered with blood and gore. i also found the loss of cain upsetting(?) after having gamed with him around for so long.
    Diii: Classix#2766; Daanlandjnr 60 baba Act2 Inf; DrDaanland 50 WD Act4 Hell; FApSsoso WZ Act1 Norm
    ~HardcoreClassic for Life ~~Clan LeFAp ~ HcC Europe since Beta Jul '96~
    GarGanTuaN highest d2 beta maul baba
    Supporter of GERBarb, first 99 char ever; Team player of GerMania first 99 sorc classic softcore 1.06
    jojo_LeFAp 93 necro HcC EU 1.08; jojojo_LeFAp 95 necro HcC EU 1.08; Daanland_LeFAp 94 s/s baba HcC EU 1.08
  • #32
    Yeah, the damage is already done. I'm glad I never invested myself too much into the Diablo storyline. I don't like disappointment
  • #33
    Quote from TheDFO

    Well, technically it was supposed to be Leah who killed him, cause she couldn't control her power. I get where they were going with that. If they story went a different way, they could have used that accident to drive Leah insane, which would have been a better way for Diablo to posess her, imo.


    I'm wondering how you're using the word "technically", because Leah never once hints at remorse over accidentally causing Cain's death. Rather she's upset that she wasn't able to use her power sooner to drive off Maghda and prevent the evil butterfly magic from being cast. He regret was explicitly that she couldn't "save" Cain, not that she killed him. (Although I agree, that idea has vastly more potential.)

    Don't ask me why her demonic explosions only affect certain people, I too was wondering why when wrestling with the soulstone in act 3, gaurds standing right next to adria and tyreal keel over and die, while they and our player are unaffected.
  • #34
    I sometimes feel like that not every character one love's has to die in an epic way if he must die. It makes the world more consistent if special people can die like anyone else. Like everyday dangers can hit special characters too.
  • #35
    I don't know why people are making out like Cain is this enormously important character. He was just the old guy who ID'd my items. He travelled with you in D2 and delivered a lot of necessary exposition, he had some interesting conversations in D1 but so did everyone else. And apart from Adria they all died in between D1 and D2... we didn't even see that. Apart from Griswold who we just find as a demon or undead or something and unceremoniously kill.

    Not that I don't like Cain, it's just he's not really that huge a character or intrinsic to the series to me. "Stay a while and listen" is memorable but so was "what can I do ye for?". He had his role in D1 and D2 and now the series has moved on.

    His death seemed more or less appropriately handled. It has a big impact on the characters, especially Leah. If you explore all the conversations and journals there's a lot about Cain in them and Leah's whole development revolves around his death from that point on. Which is the whole point.

    What did you expect to see anyway? Cain blasting away at demons with his trusty gatling cannon, chomping on a cigar in a big bloody heroic last stand while the napalm rains down on Charlie overhead? He's just some old guy who reads a lot of books.

    Quote from gfnxoxo

    This event deserves an "end of act" movie cinematic, blizzard should patch this, but defiantly too late now :(


    The end of Act cinematic was his funeral. That's not enough?

    Quote from OwnagerD

    I sometimes feel like that not every character one love's has to die in an epic way if he must die. It makes the world more consistent if special people can die like anyone else. Like everyday dangers can hit special characters too.


    Everyday dangers like magical demon-worshipping cultists led by a floating witch with butterflies for shoulders.
  • #36
    As the only rapper in the world of Diablo, I think it's mandatory that he does have some form of Horadric Gatling gun.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMAbNFptzAA

    Quote from Mormolyce

    I don't know why people are making out like Cain is this enormously important character. He was just the old guy who ID'd my items. He travelled with you in D2 and delivered a lot of necessary exposition, he had some interesting conversations in D1 but so did everyone else. And apart from Adria they all died in between D1 and D2... we didn't even see that. Apart from Griswold who we just find as a demon or undead or something and unceremoniously kill.

    Not that I don't like Cain, it's just he's not really that huge a character or intrinsic to the series to me. "Stay a while and listen" is memorable but so was "what can I do ye for?". He had his role in D1 and D2 and now the series has moved on.

    His death seemed more or less appropriately handled. It has a big impact on the characters, especially Leah. If you explore all the conversations and journals there's a lot about Cain in them and Leah's whole development revolves around his death from that point on. Which is the whole point.

    What did you expect to see anyway? Cain blasting away at demons with his trusty gatling cannon, chomping on a cigar in a big bloody heroic last stand while the napalm rains down on Charlie overhead? He's just some old guy who reads a lot of books.

    Quote from gfnxoxo

    This event deserves an "end of act" movie cinematic, blizzard should patch this, but defiantly too late now :(


    The end of Act cinematic was his funeral. That's not enough?

    Quote from OwnagerD

    I sometimes feel like that not every character one love's has to die in an epic way if he must die. It makes the world more consistent if special people can die like anyone else. Like everyday dangers can hit special characters too.


    Everyday dangers like magical demon-worshipping cultists led by a floating witch with butterflies for shoulders.
  • #37
    Please post a spoiler alert in your title or somewhere before you announce the death of a primary character in a completely separate series. You have definitely just dampened that experience for me.
    Dreaming of Beta...and turtles
    mmmm....turtles.

    Answered on the 12th with 275,000 other happy campers.
  • #38
    Quote from romique

    Quote from DokFaust

    Just wait till we fight Uber Cain in the expansion - 'You are not prepared, stay a while and be flayed'.

    'You are not prepared, stay a while IN THE FIRE!'

    rofled
    "A delayed game is eventually good, a bad game is bad forever." Shigeru Miyamoto-nintendo boss

    "I think it's hilarious because gamers won't be getting watered down anything.
    This is flat out Diablo 3." -Anonymous discussing the console version
  • #39
    little does blizzard know that the real Deckard Cain died by his pet butterfly that was named Magda
    (if blizzard uses your name in their games they will predict how you will die)
    In this world...
    Is the destiny of mankind controlled by some transcendental entity or law?
    Is it like the hand of god hovering above?
    At least, it is true...
    That man has no control, even over his own will.
  • #40
    The death was quite the let down for me as well, however I had hope that he may have returned in a later sequence, potentially as the new Angel of Wisdom. would have felt fitting. Thought maybe it would be something that carried over into the expansion but then they jacked up that chance by making Tyrael become the Angel of Wisdom at the end.

    I would like to see him assend into something greater, I feel like Blizzard might give him that. We will just have to wait and see.
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