Φ Imperius - The true threat to Sanctuary?

  • #1
    So I have updated this original post sort of in a recent news post but the original idea is sort of the same. It's much better put together though so I'm going to post it here.









    DiabloWiki.com - Imperius Imperius is a member of the enigmatic DiabloWiki.com - Angiris Council Angiris Council. He is thought to be the DiabloWiki.com - Archangel Archangel of War. Wearing crimson red robes and a gleaming breastplate, he is anything but patient. In fact, his name is likely derived from the word imperious, which means overbearing and urgent. He makes a cameo appearance in DiabloWiki.com - The Sin War The Sin War trilogy in the last book, The Veiled Prophet" class="wiki-link">The Veiled Prophet"/> The Veiled Prophet, fervently denouncing DiabloWiki.com - Sanctuary Sanctuary and it's denizens. If humanity had an angelic enemy, he is certainly the number one candidate. Below are some quotations directly from The Sin War that show just how much Imperius despises humanity.


    [Imperius talking about Sanctuary]
    THERE IS NO NEED FOR THIS DEBATE TO CONTINUE....OR TO HAVE EVEN BEGUN, declared a majestic angel with robes of royal red and a shining breastplate upon which the image of an upturned sword blazed. THE PATH IS OBVIOUS....WHAT HAS BEEN WROUGHT BY THE TRAITOR MUST BE UNDONE! LET THE HOST FINISH WHAT IT BEGAN, EVEN IF WE MUST CUT THROUGH A HUNDRED RANKS OF DEMONS TO ACCOMPLISH IT!

    [Imperius talking about Inarius]
    FROM HIS CRIMES WAS THIS ABOMINATION CALLED SANCTUARY CREATED! JUDGE ONE, AND YOU RIGHTLY JUDGE THEM BOTH!

    [Imperius talking about Inarius and Sanctuary]
    I SAY THAT THE RENEGADE MUST BE FOREVER IMPRISONED AND HIS NEST OF DEMON-SPAWN ERADICATED!

    [Imperius talking to Tyrael]
    WELL, OLD FRIEND? asked Imperius. HOW WILL YOU CHOOSE, YOU WHO HAVE SEEN THEM AT THEIR MOST FOUL? WILL YOU VOTE WITH ME AND PUT AN END TO THIS MOST HEINOUS OF SPAWNING GROUNDS?


    Perhaps his most notable physical feature is the blazing upturned sword on his breastplate. When I think of the natural state of a sword, it's being held by the hilt with the blade pointing upwards. Then if it were to be upturned it would be sitting on the tip of it's blade with the hilt towards the top. A cross could easily be construed as a sword in the Diabloverse where there are no real world religions.




    When DiabloWiki.com - Richard Knaak Richard Knaak was asked about this from Diablofans member, TH3N00S3 he replied:

    Official Blizzard Quote:



    Thanks for your interest. There are two distinct and, imho, contradictory definitions for 'upturned'. In this case, I went with the definition that refers to an object turned business end up, such as 'an upturned nose'. This means the point of the sword would be toward the head. Based on conversations with Blizzard in the past, they see it the same way.
    This certainly doesn't mean they couldn't have changed their idea of what an upturned sword is. Even Richard Knaak admitted the word upturned can really be taken either way in this case.

    Now this takes us to Diablo3.com where the page initially said:

    Official Blizzard Quote:



    When Deckard Cain returns to the ruins of Tristram's Cathedral seeking clues to new stirrings of evil, a comet from the heavens strikes the very ground where Diablo once entered the world. The comet carries a dark omen in its fiery being and it calls the heroes of Sanctuary To defend the mortal world against the rising powers of The Burning Hells – And even the failing luminaries of the High Heavens itself.


    But was changed a couple years back to:

    Official Blizzard Quote:



    When Deckard Cain returns to the ruins of Tristram Cathedral seeking clues to defeat new stirrings of evil, a fiery harbinger of doom falls from the heavens, striking the very ground where Diablo once entered the world. This fire from the sky reawakens ancient evils and calls the heroes of Sanctuary to defend the mortal world against the rising powers of the Burning Hells once again.


    There is a pretty large difference here. In the first version it seems to hint at angelic intervention at some point in the story. In the later version it seems like they've pulled all that back to hint only at demonic influence. Perhaps they're planning for an expansion?

    If The DiabloWiki.com - High Heavens High Heavens were to intervene, at this point after their stance during The Sin War, it's rational to assume they wouldn't be friendly.
    These quotes also seem to point to the importance of the comet, or what they would have us believe is a comet.

    All throughout Diablo 2, DiabloWiki.com - Tyrael Tyrael makes it very clear that the Angiris Council does not approve of his meddling in the affairs of mortals. Is it possible that destroying the DiabloWiki.com - Worldstone Worldstone was the final straw? Could Tyrael have been cast from The High Heavens? I don't know of any DiabloWiki.com - comet comet with that little substance. It is my belief this is Tyrael plummeting into the depths of the Cathedral.



    Now after the events of The Sin War, no one would be more willing to toss Tyrael from the graces of The Heavens than Imperius. Tyrael was the deciding vote that could have landed Sanctuary directly in the path of angelic annihilation. In this piece of concept art it appears to be the same angel we see with the cross or sword on his chest to be looming above another DiabloWiki.com - angel angel which appears to me to be Tyrael shielding his eyes.



    If this is the case, Imperius wouldn't be acting alone. It's very likely that the Angiris Council of The High Heavens once again held a vote deciding the fate of the human race. This time we may not have came out so lucky. During the last vote the two angels that voted to save humanity were DiabloWiki.com - Auriel Auriel and DiabloWiki.com - Iltherael Iltherael, who essentially agreed they wanted to let us grow and hopefully become allies. One thing is certain though, both The High Heavens and The DiabloWiki.com - Burning Hells Burning Hells wish to use us as pawns. One wrong step in one direction and we'll become puppets to The Hells , to the other, The Heavens will destroy us. Heaven has been watching, and what have they seen?

    The DiabloWiki.com - Prime Evils Prime Evils, after being unleashed, are all finally caught inside their own DiabloWiki.com - soulstone soulstone. Then, by human error, all the stones were damaged. A horadric mage attempting to contain DiabloWiki.com - Baal Baal becomes consumed and corrupted, eventually leading to the corruption of the world stone. A religion is founded by DiabloWiki.com - Akarat Akarat, based on the visions and teachings of what we are led to believe is an Archangel named DiabloWiki.com - Yaerius Yaerius. That religion evolves into the Zakarum church, which is infamous for its inquisition and then becomes the perfect staging ground for the corruption of DiabloWiki.com - Mephisto Mephisto. After being secretly usurped by the demon lord, the paladins of the church were sent on a crusade throughout the lands murdering all non believers suspected of the use of demonic magic. Mephisto then used the church to provide him with fresh human sacrifices.

    A small group of heroes develop extraordinary powers, once again, and defeat DiabloWiki.com - Diablo Diablo only to succumb to his taint later. One going on to become DiabloWiki.com - The Dark Wanderer The Dark Wanderer, one becoming DiabloWiki.com - Blood Raven Blood Raven, and the last becoming DiabloWiki.com - The Summoner The Summoner in the DiabloWiki.com - Arcane Sanctuary Arcane Sanctuary. DiabloWiki.com - Nihlathak Nihlathak shows them that humanity is untrustworthy and has a thirst for power and a price at which we can be bought. In Diablo III the DiabloWiki.com - Triune Triune is emerging once again. Once a major religion in the world headed by DiabloWiki.com - Lucion Lucion then, and now another demon. We have groups of humans known as DiabloWiki.com - Demon Hunters Demon Hunters, wielding demonic magics. We just may appear too much of a risk at this point, a loose end.

    This time we do not have DiabloWiki.com - Uldyssian Uldyssian to protect us. Will we be able to survive an onslaught from The Heavens trying to purge us and the driving forces of The Hells trying to enslave us? If Tyrael truly has been cast out of The High Heavens, what could this mean for our characters in DiabloWiki.com - Diablo III Diablo III? What could this mean for all of Sanctuary?




    Disclaimer: DiabloFans' Rumors are not the officially recognized positions of the staff, management, and/or administration of DiabloFans


    Source: http://www.diablofans.com/topic/25450-sanctuary-speculation-imperius/






    This is the old original post.




    I just read about Imperius.

    Maybe he is the angel in this picture.



    UPDATE NEW PICTURE 8-14-08:


    In the one picture the chestplate kind of looks like it has a upturned sword "blazing" on it.

    Imperius
    Male. Robes of royal red with a shining breastplate upon which the image of an upturned sword blazes. His nature is fierce, and he thinks that Sanctuary should be destroyed. Likely the Archangel of War.
    It would make sense in a way. He wants to destroy sanctuary and the word "blazing" was used just like in the picture.

    If you look closer at the sketch at the very top in that picture it looks like Tyrael to me in the bottom right clutching his eyes. So maybe he was confronted by Imperius for meddling in mortal affairs and destroying the worldstone and was cast back into Sanctuary.

    What does everyone else think about this?


    Quote from XxL2PxX »
    "And a child will cradle Terror in his breast as the heart of man falls under the shadow.

    A Wanderer will pass through the ancient lands trailing chaos in his wake.

    The Three Brothers will be reunited as the mortal world trembles before their might.

    And so it was foretold that the Three, once reunited, would be shattered again --

    And the last of them would set his sights on the holy mount. The warnings held that
    Their defeat would be illusory - that the final gambit had yet to be played . . ."

    * * *

    And now at last the storm surges forth from the southlands, and the hand of Destruction
    Reaches out to undo the workings of the Ancients. The tides of Hell surge - ready to smash
    Down upon the shores of the mortal world - to drown the guilty and the innocent alike."


    - Excerpt from the Prophecies of the Final Day

    That is what all happened in the last two games.


    Quote from D3 Official Site »

    "When Deckard Cain returns to the ruins of Tristram's Cathedral seeking clues to new stirrings of evil,
    a comet from the heavens strikes the very ground where Diablo once entered the world.
    The comet carries a dark omen in its fiery being and it calls the heroes of Sanctuary

    To defend the mortal world against the rising powers of the Burning Hells –
    And even the failing luminaries of the High Heavens itself."


    So this means the comet is indeed from heaven and that some angel is "failing" or becoming corrupt.


    They changed the D3 site text a while back and it now says:
    When Deckard Cain returns to the ruins of Tristram Cathedral seeking clues to defeat new stirrings of evil, a fiery harbinger of doom falls from the heavens, striking the very ground where Diablo once entered the world. This fire from the sky reawakens ancient evils and calls the heroes of Sanctuary to defend the mortal world against the rising powers of the Burning Hells once again.
    They removed the failing luminaries part, kind of weird. They still mention a harbinger from heaven though.



    And here's some quotes straight from The Veiled Prophet (Thanks to Atrumentis for this part.):

    THERE IS NO NEED FOR THIS DEBATE TO CONTINUE....OR TO HAVE EVEN BEGUN, declared a majestic angel with robes of royal red and a shining breastplate upon which the image of an upturned sword blazed. THE PATH IS OBVIOUS....WHAT HAS BEEN WROUGHT BY THE TRAITOR MUST BE UNDONE! LET THE HOST FINISH WHAT IT BEGAN, EVEN IF WE MUST CUT THROUGH A HUNDRED RANKS OF DEMONS TO ACCOMPLISH IT!
    FROM HIS CRIMES WAS THIS ABOMINATION CALLED SANCTUARY CREATED! JUDGE ONE, AND YOU RIGHTLY JUDGE THEM BOTH!
    I SAY THAT THE RENEGADE MUST BE FOREVER IMPRISONED AND HIS NEST OF DEMON-SPAWN ERADICATED!
    [Talking to Tyrael]
    WELL, OLD FRIEND? asked Imperius. HOW WILL YOU CHOOSE, YOU WHO HAVE SEEN THEM AT THEIR MOST FOUL? WILL YOU VOTE WITH ME AND PUT AN END TO THIS MOST HEINOUS OF SPAWNING GROUNDS?
    For anyone who thinks the sword isn't "upturned"...

    Think about it, the natural way you wield a sword is like this:



    So if you upturn it it would be with the hilt on top.

    It's tricky wording.






    Please only constructive posts only. I wan't this to be a fairly serious discussion.
  • #2
    As I said before, very nice find. I don't like or agree with many theories, but I really like yours.

    We know for a fact that at least one other angel enters the scene, and it seems likely that this angel should be either one of the Angiris Council or Inarius. Out of all the members of the Council, Imperius is the most likely to show, since he has the strongest personality.

    Edit: Sorry but, that symbol is meant to denote official threads. As much as I like your theory, this thread isn't really for 'official' or collective discussion. Not yet, anyway.

    Quote from "Jetrall" »
    WoW fans are nerds. Diablo fans are freaks.
  • #3
    Quote from "Atrumentis" »
    As I said before, very nice find. I don't like or agree with many theories, but I really like yours.

    We know for a fact that at least one other angel enters the scene, and it seems likely that this angel should be either one of the Angiris Council or Inarius. Out of all the members of the Council, Imperius is the most likely to show, since he has the strongest personality.


    Thanks, I hope other people can put some input into the discussion especially more people who have read the book.

    Maybe I can get a sticky if enough people think its plausible. :)

    Quote from "Atrumentis" »
    Edit: Sorry but, that symbol is meant to denote official threads. As much as I like your theory, this thread isn't really for 'official' or collective discussion. Not yet, anyway.


    Didn't know what the symbol meant. Sorry, just thought it made it stand out more. :P
  • #5
    You got good eyes and a good memory. This somewhat makes sense because this angel is a lot shinier than Tyrael and yet doesn't seem to fit the description of the other members of the Council.

    Still I think the symbol on his chest could be just a cross and not a sword, but heck what does it have to do with anything anyway.

  • #6
    I fixed the image for you.

    And here's some quotes straight from The Veiled Prophet:

    THERE IS NO NEED FOR THIS DEBATE TO CONTINUE....OR TO HAVE EVEN BEGUN, declared a majestic angel with robes of royal red and a shining breastplate upon which the image of an upturned sword blazed. THE PATH IS OBVIOUS....WHAT HAS BEEN WROUGHT BY THE TRAITOR MUST BE UNDONE! LET THE HOST FINISH WHAT IT BEGAN, EVEN IF WE MUST CUT THROUGH A HUNDRED RANKS OF DEMONS TO ACCOMPLISH IT!


    FROM HIS CRIMES WAS THIS ABOMINATION CALLED SANCTUARY CREATED! JUDGE ONE, AND YOU RIGHTLY JUDGE THEM BOTH!


    I SAY THAT THE RENEGADE MUST BE FOREVER IMPRISONED AND HIS NEST OF DEMON-SPAWN ERADICATED!


    [Talking to Tyrael]
    WELL, OLD FRIEND? asked Imperius. HOW WILL YOU CHOOSE, YOU WHO HAVE SEEN THEM AT THEIR MOST FOUL? WILL YOU VOTE WITH ME AND PUT AN END TO THIS MOST HEINOUS OF SPAWNING GROUNDS?

    Quote from "Jetrall" »
    WoW fans are nerds. Diablo fans are freaks.
  • #7
    Quote from "Atrumentis" »
    I fixed the image for you.

    And here's some quotes straight from The Veiled Prophet:


    Thanks, I think this is a pretty solid theory, and it makes more sense than Tyrael becoming corrupted I think. I mean Imperius already hated Sanctuary.

    Feel free to add those quotes into the opening post if you want, more people will see it that way.

    Anyway I'm off to bed, hope for more input from people when I wake up. :)
  • #8
    Quote from "Daemaro" »
    Thanks, I think this is a pretty solid theory, and it makes more sense than Tyrael becoming corrupted I think. I mean Imperius already hated Sanctuary.

    Absolutely. I have been saying this for days. As you note, Imperius loathes Sanctuary because he, like half of the Angiris Council, sees humans only as the "get of demons." Humans defy the order that Heaven wishes to rule existence.

    Even Tyrael only voted to save humanity because he was fascinated by the human propensity to choose order instead of acting under the angelic compulsion to impose order.
    The sanctity of this place has been fouled.
  • #9
    I gotta say...great theory. :thumbsup:

    The Tyrael is corrupt theory was really starting to wear on me...I know its still speculation at this point but I doubt if thats the way the developers decided to take the plot direction...

    This theory on the other hand makes ALOT of sense and seems very practical.

    Imperius always stuck out to me when reading the books and it would be badass to see him in-game. Maybe the angel that is on the front of the diablo 3 website isn't Tyrael...but in fact Imperius?? i don't know, I'll have to go back and look at it more closely.

    But if I were to imagine any angel falling in a fiery manner it would be Imperius, with his fiery temper.
  • #10
    I have been thinking that there is another angel ever since I saw the D3 official site, but didn't knew the lore (didn't read the books) and couldn't back it up. This fits like a glove.
  • #11
    Lets try and develop this alittle further....

    We know that angels can't stay in sanctuary for long (Act 3 cinematic of D2 when Tyrael says that the power that holds him to Sanctuary is fading fast and he can't stay)...so how is it that Imperius could come to Sanctuary and stay while retaining power?

    That is what the soulstones did for the Prime Evils... They allowed them to anchor to the mortal plane and retain great amounts of power

    Any ideas on how Imperius could do this? Maybe a shard from the Worldstone? Or maybe it isn't needed any longer since the Worldstone is destroyed?
  • #12
    Quote from "Archanum" »
    Lets try and develop this alittle further....

    We know that angels can't stay in sanctuary for long (Act 3 cinematic of D2 when Tyrael says that the power that holds him to Sanctuary is fading fast and he can't stay)...so how is it that Imperius could come to Sanctuary and stay while retaining power?

    That is what the soulstones did for the Prime Evils... They allowed them to anchor to the mortal plane and retain great amounts of power

    Any ideas on how Imperius could do this? Maybe a shard from the Worldstone? Or maybe it isn't needed any longer since the Worldstone is destroyed?


    He can do it because the worldstone was destroyed.

  • #13
    Quote from "blizter" »
    He can do it because the worldstone was destroyed.



    How do you know this? Sources?

    Or is this just speculation?
  • #14
    Quote from "Archanum" »
    How do you know this? Sources?

    Or is this just speculation?

    It's in the Sin War triliogy. The Worldstone shields Sanctuary from angels and demons alike. With it gone, the world lays open. This is why Cain was convinced a demonic invasion would begin the moment the Worldstone was destroyed. Instead, 20 years have passed...
    The sanctity of this place has been fouled.
  • #15
    Quote from "Ralsu" »
    It's in the Sin War triliogy. The Worldstone shields Sanctuary from angels and demons alike. With it gone, the world lays open. This is why Cain was convinced a demonic invasion would begin the moment the Worldstone was destroyed. Instead, 20 years have passed...



    “What it means is thus; in addition to secreting this realm, the Worldstone also began a steady and subtle dampening process. Each succeeding generation of nephalem became far less powerful than the previous, until, in very short order, those next born were bereft of any ability. Soon, only a few from the first generation—myself and Bul-Kathos, to name the obvious—survived. The gifts—or curse—of our forebears was forgotten. Inarius began reshaping Sanctuary to his satisfaction…and to his iron rule.”


    Thats a quote directly from the Sin War....

    See my impression was always more that the Worldstone hid Sanctuary from Heaven/Hell instead of actually making a barrier. Inarius made the Worldstone to make it harder to see/get into. So with it destroyed you could see Sanctuary clearly now from Heaven/Hell and get into it easier, but once there I would think it would still have the same affect of needing some sort of anchor to retain power there. We know that even Inarius needed this anchor (his was the Worldstone)

  • #16
    Point taken. I just assumed that whatever magic the Worldstone used to obscure Sanctuary made it necessary to continually expend energy to remain in the world.

    It's hard to articulate my idea because we normally move in 3D. But I am talking a 5th dimension (assuming the 4th is time). It's not like Sanctuary is a place with physical relativity to Hell. It's more of a dminesional thing. And whereas we think of the physical energy needed to walk from our houses to the store, the celestial forces some expend magical energy in order to maintain a presence in Sanctuary. With the Worldstone gone, the path is easier to find and requires less energy and concentration.
    The sanctity of this place has been fouled.
  • #17
    Quote from "Ralsu" »
    Point taken. I just assumed that whatever magic the Worldstone used to obscure Sanctuary made it necessary to continually expend energy to remain in the world.

    It's hard to articulate my idea because we normally move in 3D. But I am talking a 5th dimension (assuming the 4th is time). It's not like Sanctuary is a place with physical relativity to Hell. It's more of a dminesional thing. And whereas we think of the physical energy needed to walk from our houses to the store, the celestial forces some expend magical energy in order to maintain a presence in Sanctuary. With the Worldstone gone, the path is easier to find and requires less energy and concentration.


    That's kind of what I think too. With the worldstone gone demons and angels can find sanctuary a lot easier and will probably have less trouble sticking around.
  • #18
    Quote from "Ralsu" »
    Point taken. I just assumed that whatever magic the Worldstone used to obscure Sanctuary made it necessary to continually expend energy to remain in the world.

    It's hard to articulate my idea because we normally move in 3D. But I am talking a 5th dimension (assuming the 4th is time). It's not like Sanctuary is a place with physical relativity to Hell. It's more of a dminesional thing. And whereas we think of the physical energy needed to walk from our houses to the store, the celestial forces some expend magical energy in order to maintain a presence in Sanctuary. With the Worldstone gone, the path is easier to find and requires less energy and concentration.



    Good point. Because we do know that it took a considerable amount of Diablo, Mephisto, and Baal's power just to get to Sanctuary in the first place, this probably had something to do with Inarius making it hard to find with the Worldstone. So if we assume that, then all the Worldstone was doing was keeping it hard to find.

    But I didn't think about the dimensional aspect of it. We know that angels can access Hell easily and demons can access Heaven easily. But this can be explained in that they are on the same dimension as each other. Sanctuary on the other hand, is not. So the question is, "Is the worldstone what kept it hard for angels/demons to stay powerful on Sanctuary, or is it the fact that it is on an entirely different dimension?"

    I would tend to side on the side of saying that the Worldstone doesn't affect the ability to retain power on the mortal plane. I mean, after all, look at what Sanctuary was built for in the first place....a place for those demons and angels that wanted out of the Great Conflict. That was Inarius' and Lilith's intention when making Sanctuary/Worldstone. It doesn't make sense that they would make the Worldstone take away the ability of angels or demons to stay there. I believe its first purpose was simply to hide Sanctuary from those in Heaven and Hell that they didn't want there. Then when the nephalem became an issue Inarius started to change the Worldstone to keep humans from realizing their power.
  • #19
    Quote from "Archanum" »
    look at what Sanctuary was built for in the first place....a place for those demons and angels that wanted out of the Great Conflict. That was Inarius' and Lilith's intention when making Sanctuary/Worldstone. It doesn't make sense that they would make the Worldstone take away the ability of angels or demons to stay there. I believe its first purpose was simply to hide Sanctuary from those in Heaven and Hell that they didn't want there. Then when the nephalem became an issue Inarius started to change the Worldstone to keep humans from realizing their power.

    Yeah, but help me out here (too lazy to go grab my novels at the moment)...

    Didn't Inarius create the Worldstone after the the demons and angels who spawned them began to get jealous and resentful of the nephelem? I mean, wasn't there some squabble where Inarius realized that his new creation would be dragged into the middle and he decided to just keep it for himself?

    I'll go get the books and read up a bit.
    The sanctity of this place has been fouled.
  • #20
    Quote from "Ralsu" »
    Yeah, but help me out here (too lazy to go grab my novels at the moment)...

    Didn't Inarius create the Worldstone after the the demons and angels who spawned them began to get jealous and resentful of the nephelem? I mean, wasn't there some squabble where Inarius realized that his new creation would be dragged into the middle and he decided to just keep it for himself?

    I'll go get the books and read up a bit.



    Hmm...sounds familiar...I'm at work now :P (obviously not doing my job)...but I'll have to look into that later...sounds right though...
  • #21
    So do you think the meteor was Imperius himself, or Tyrael being cast out of heaven by Imperius?
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