Marius is surrounded with a lot of discrepant facts which causes disputes. In all events he was involved there are some absurdities and contradictions that confuse “lore-keepers” (such as me) of Diablo world. I found courage to solve all these contradictions and extract the drops of truth out of muddy stream of history.
SEARCHING FOR FACTS AND INFORMATIONS
Questionable and dubious facts serve for a detective as the clues, which he uses for trying to recreate the events of the past in his imagination in order to find the truth…
The tomb of Tal Rasha. Heroes managed to enter a secret vault only by Horadric Stuff which allowed opening the way to the wall-up room, where Duriel has awaited for them. How Dark Wanderer and Marius came to the place of imprisonment of the great Horadrim mage? Was there another secret way? Probably it was made just thanks to powerful knowledge of the Dark Wanderer… But how Marius by himself could get back out of there without any powerful skills?
Tyrael and Marius. Why has Tyrael not taken the Soulstone from Marius? What he thinking about? This can be attributed to the fact that he was exhausted after his long stay in the mortal realm. But the archangel could send to Marius someone else, for example, the same heroes who rescued him.
Journey to Kurast. How did Marius get to Kurast if he had no money to hire any midged ship? How did he get in temple city of Travincal teeming by corrupted believers of Zakarum who was making a human sacrifice?
Entering the recesses of the Temple. The adventurers were able to get in the Durance of Hatred only after killing the corrupted Council Members and destroying the Compelling Orb - a magical artifact which was used to control the Zakarum Priests and their followers. How did Marius manage to sneak in there? And most importantly, how did he get back? Where were the guardians at that while?
Discrepancy in the timeline. Remarkably, Marius said Baal that he has already heard about Diablo’s defeat, while the heroes still fighting in the fiery depths of hell and probably has not managed to kill Diablo. We know that when Diablo was just defeated, Baal has already managed to form his demonic army and led it into the lands of barbarians. He could not be in two places at once. He either has to lead his demonic army in the lands of barbarians, or looking for Marius, who couldn’t have known that Diablo was defeated. He could have learned about it only after that news has reached a mortal world. And we exactly know that news about Diablo’s defeat reached the humans only while Baal was already taking the barbarian fortresses one by one. Note:For most people this great event remained unknown, and only a few knew about it. Also in the cinematics we can see that Baal has already taken his Soulstone and wears it as an amulet.
Why Marius? Why Marius was exactly who Diablo needed? Only for setting the Lord of Destruction frees? Apparently Diablo foresaw he would meet an obstacle in the tomb. If Diablo need a man who frees Baal while archangel battling Wanderer, it would be rational to find someone in Lut Gholein and not to drag someone through the desert (one never knows hour: Marius could perish in the way).
We also know that the Hero of Tristram has lost himself completely only after he entered the tomb of Tal Rasha.
THEORIES, FINDINGS AND CONCLUSIONS
We have collected the necessary information and now we will try to recreate the events of the past and as the artist-restorer finish of missing details in the picture.
Dreams of Marius. Let us recall his dreams. Marius is like a person who has the gift of vision of the past and the future but who still hasn’t realized his gift, therefore, his destiny. Previously, Marius saw a vision of the future, which he recognized as his nightmares later actually came to be real:
“Were these the demons from my dreams, or were they born... within the Wanderer?
Why did I follow him? I don't know. Why do things happen as they do in dreams?”
Later, he beheld a vision of the past:
“However, the dreams returned. But these were clearly not my own. I beheld a vision of a great man: the mage, Tal Rasha. You were there too, Tyrael; I remember seeing you in my dream. His brethren had cornered a great demon named Baal, Lord of Destruction, who had been set loose upon the world. They attempted to imprison the demon within a sacred stone. Yet when their attempts failed, Tal Rasha selflessly volunteered to contain the demon within himself, completing the prison. He instructed his brethren to bind him within a tomb, buried under the sand... and there, to wrestle with the demon for all eternity”.
Let’s assume that Marius was given a great role prepared by Doom itself. This point somehow accentuates his uniqueness and make Diablo opt on him. But then what was its purpose?
When the Evil enters the world and the world face great danger, it is usually set in motion the powerful protective mechanisms of the world: there should be a rise of the prophets and the great heroes who are not immediately aware of their destiny and has to wandering around the world and in their thoughts for a some time, led by the Providence. And, finally, they become the ones who made their own destiny. Obviously Marius also was led by Providence in the same way:
“I sought refuge from my memories in the company of other outcasts, high in the mountains past the Eastern Gate”.
Well, we see that the Providence led him toward the Rogue Monastery. But what he was there to do? What a great feat he could do? Let’s recall that the Rogue Monastery had fallen under the evil influence of the demoness, Andariel. Do you remember that we have encountered Blood Raven in Diablo II (Act I)? We may guess by her name that she was a seer, most likely false prophetess… What role she played in the fall of the Rogues? Let’s assume that she has stated the Sisterhood a false path led to the appearance of Andariel in the mortal world. Apparently, Marius should have recognized his nightmares as a prophetic in order to warn the Sisterhood of the evil that would claimed their ancestral monastery:
“Oh, I fought sleep for days at a time... For when I dreamt, the memories would return. Memories of the Monastery, and the evil, that had claimed it. Dreams, memories... I couldn’t tell the difference anymore”.
Saying the truth he calls them a memories not a vision, however, he also notes that he couldn’t tell the difference between his dreams and memories. We shall return to it later. Thus, the appearance of Andariel in the mortal world could be break due to Marius, but Diablo prevented it as he deftly cleared the obstruction that may close the path for demoness. BUT WHY DIABLO DOES NOT JUST KILL MARIUS? Let us return to the story of Marius:
“We traveled east over the mountains and into the vast deserts of broken lands. As the days passed, my companion told me of himself, that he had once been a great warrior, and that a dark and sacred burden now weighed heavily upon him”.
It is clear that Hero of Tristram had not yet lost himself and continued to struggle with the dark demonic influence. Consequently, he had no intention to kill Marius. It is obvious that Diablo skillfully manipulated the mind of hero in order to make him do as he wished. In the cinematics we can see that he did not touch any person, and a slaughter was made by the crowd of hellish brood released from the Wanderer against his will. Also the cinematics shows that the Dark Wanderer sometimes didn’t make differ between demon’s thoughts and his own:
“Now you know what I seek, Marius. This is my brother. Sleep now. We set out with the dawn”.
Note:However, it can be interpreted differently: maybe Dark Wanderer considered as his brother very Tal Rasha, not Baal. Indeed, they are "brothers in destiny" because they both hold the soul of the great demons in their bodies…
Thus, after Marius followed Dark Wanderer and so has not reached his destination prepared by Providence, Diablo let him alone and concentrated on the hero. These events (the monastery, the tomb) are beginning to resemble a chess game. Dark Wanderer and Marius marched in Lut Gholein, and then went to the tomb of Tal Rasha. There they were awaited by no one but Tyrael himself…
In the tomb of Tal Rasha. Tyrael’s planning.
Two companions went into the cave of the tomb and found the entrance to the secret hall where Tal Rasha was bound.
“We came at last to a great hall. It was then I realized my companion hadn’t been gaining strength; he had been loosing what was left of his humanity”.
Thus, the hero of Tristram completely was possessed by demon. But how they get in that great hall? In the cinematics we can see that the entrance was closing by Tyrael himself. Obviously, he definitely was who opened the entrance in order to wait for the Wanderer. He expected to see a great hero once defeated Diablo and who could enter the infernal gate and destroy all of the Soulstones. Apparently Tyrael prepared a crusade against Mephisto who has corrupted the entire Kurast, and then after his defeat to enter the infernal gate to destroy all of three evil stones. However, a disappointment was awaiting him…
“STOP! THE BEAST CONTAINED HEREIN SHALL NOT BE SET FREE – EVEN BY YOU!”
– These were the first words of the archangel when two companions came at the place of the imprisonment of Tal Rasha and one of them was going to pull the stone out of the chest of bound beast. The Wanderer being stopped by fiery tentacles, has suddenly attacked the archangel that he has even to recede. Apparently he wasn’t expecting such an action from the Wanderer. But Tyrael continued to experience him, not knowing that the hero isn’t one who had once been any more. That is why angel fought him half-heartedly instead of overwhelming him by his flaming sword. Finally, Tyrael saw in him a man possessed by demon. But suddenly, Marius pulled the stone from the chest of the monster. The demon was released, and the crystal itself could not retain him for a long. Even after killing that creature Tal Rasha transformed into, the Soulstone would represent a great danger; therefore, it must be destroyed as soon as possible… Everything turned out not as the archangel expected. The hero of Tristram did not meet his expectations. And Tyrael’s choice forcedly fell on his companion - an infirm seer instead of a mighty warrior. Apparently Marius was also needed to the angel, not only the demon.
Is Tyrael’s act foolish and thoughtless? That is how the words of Tyrael said to Marius sound:
“Fool! You have just ensured the doom of this world. You cannot even begin to imagine what you've set in motion this day. Go now, to the Temple of Light in the eastern city of Kurast. There you will find the gate to Hell open before you. You must find the courage to step through that gate, Marius. Take the stone you hold to the Hellforge, where it will be destroyed. Go now! Take the stone and run!”
We see Tyrael well aware of there is a portal to Hell under the Temple of Light. Please note that while the clergy of Zakarum was corrupted under the evil influence of the Lord of Hatred, the Temple of Light was desecrated by an abomination of human sacrifices, and the entire Kurast turned into a den of fanatical zakarumites and evil fiends. Tyrael couldn’t not to know about these facts, but despite these all, he decides to send Marius straight into the clutches of Mephisto! What a folly! How could he do likewise? This can be ascribed only to his despair. Well, despair quite fit the way to the event in question.
Let's see the other side. Tyrael could say that in order to mislead very demons, who also heard his words. Tyrael knew that such a feeble human like Marius is not able to find the means for hiring a ship for a rather short while and sailing ashore of Kurast. He would take a long time to find the right amount of gold (perhaps even assemble a team) to sail west, without mentioning about how he will penetrate into the Temple of Light and get into the infernal gate. Archangel was desperately hoping that the brothers would not pursue Marius and would go straight to Kurast, believing that Marius with Baal’s Soulstone would come right to their hands by himself. Tyrael hoped that after the demons went to Kurast, he would find Marius and take the Soulstone...
Thus, Marius took the Soulstone and ran.
The influence of Baal’s Soulstone. It was then very interesting things started. Marius ran into Lut Gholein, because only there he can find a ship and sail to Kurast. Please note, after the rumors about the Dark Wanderer have spread, Lord Jerhyn forbade all ships from leaving port. Your can check it by going to talk Meshif and listen to his introduction. Meanwhile the prophetic dreams about the future nightmares went on to follow Marius in his heels, and the Soulstone begins to affect his body and mind. From the cinematics we know that the body of Marius prematurely aged since he got the Soulstone. Note:According to the official timeline the events of the game – beginning from the events in Tristram and ended with the destruction of the Worldstone – took only three years.
Even if the Soulstone couldn’t distort the vision of Marius, it might influence to his perception of what is happening, therefore, to his attempts to interpret his prophetic dreams. Under the evil influence of the magic stone Marius began to perceive a vision of the future as THE EVENTS THAT HAVE ALREADY HAPPENED LONG AGO. Thus, it could prevent him to warn mankind about the coming Evil in order to prevent it. Soon, Marius, realizing that he going crazy, has to seek refuge and finally got in the asylum. Note:Marius could have got in there in other ways. For example, he could, though late, but finally have realized his destiny, and therefore, was trying to announce about the upcoming Evil in the crowded places, and prophesied about the end of all things. Eventually, he could try to persuade people to help him get into Kurast while the ships are prohibited from leaving port. For these acts he could be easily clapped in a jail or an asylum, and then being driven to the mad under the evil influence of the stone, he could completely cease to distinguish his visions from his memories…
Do not hesitate by this turn of the events, I know that you wish to argue that Marius came in an asylum only after he visited the deep recesses of the temple and saw a dark gathering of the Three. But ask yourself, what a chance has he had for getting there? Roughly speaking, none. Well, what a chance has he had for beholding the prophetic vision of this event? If some speculation light you up now, do not rush to conclusions but keep reading ;).
The conversation with Baal. So, being in the asylum, Marius completely abstracted out of the real world and began to believe that all of his visions were his memories or events had occurred long ago ("Dreams, memories ... I couldn’t tell the difference any more”). Let’s make clear, where was the asylum Marius has hidden. From the cinematics we remember that when the Baal was leaving the inflamed building, a scarab beetles also crawled out. But these insects are found in… Lut Gholein! You can see these interesting insects in Diablo II (Act II) around NPC named Drognan. Even without this fact, you should be sure that his shelter had to be precisely in Lut Gholein or at least in its vicinity (he hardly could find an asylum in the corrupted lands of Kurast).
Tyrael was bound to the Binding Stone and was awaited the arrival of the true heroes, who would later crusade onto the corrupted lands of Kurast. Contrary to the desperate hope of the archangel, the Brothers figured out that before going to Kurast, they should have search Marius in order to take the Soulstone back. Baal took advantage of Tal Rasha’s secret knowledge in order to close the secret hall (maybe even wall-up it) which was later reopened by the adventurers. Also, the demons have taken care to leave Duriel in order he would arrange a "cool" meeting for Cain’s friends. Baal then went to Lut Gholein and was searching for Marius for a long time and finally found him in the asylum:
“I've been searching for you for a long time, Marius. I was rather beginning to think you didn't want to be found”.
Marius has recognized him as an archangel. Baal has listened to the story of the seer, in which he told the demon that he was in the deepest recesses of the Temple of Light, oversaw the reunification of Three Evils and ended his story with the next words:
“I heard later that he was defeated and that the Soulstones were destroyed in Hellforge… all except one…”
Demonic gambit. Thus, Marius told Baal what would be happened in the future believing that these are events of the past. Taking this course of affairs into the consideration, the Three hastened to be regrouped soon after their reunion. Defeats of Diablo and Mephisto was a Queen's gambit in a chess game, which allowed Baal to make a few smart moves and checkmate “the protection” of Sanctuary - nature of Soulstone has been corrupted, then this ancient artifact was destroyed by Tyrael. As you can see Tyrael couldn’t take the stone from Marius, because after his release, he was not only exhausted but Marius was no longer alive, and Baal was going to Kurast and HE HAS ALREADY HAVE HIS SOULSTONE.
However, the seer has suffered the pangs of his conscience that he couldn’t enter the gate to Hell. But Marius was consoling himself that he though dared to get in the temple of the Zakarum, and therefore, he was able to perform a part of the job at least. Even though he has not entered there, Marius thought, Diablo was defeated anyway. These were his excuses. This is the way he tried to soften the pangs of his conscience by. But in fact, he did all as an angel means - he has hidden in the most secret place he could found. Even Baal himself rightly pointed out:
“You haven't failed old man. You've done exactly as you were meant to do”.
Nevertheless, Marius could not escape from him. Perhaps, the thing is that, there could be some link between Tal Rasha and the Soulstone, which allowed him to discover the location of Marius.
Be that as it may, we shouldn’t forget that Marius made the greatest sin against the security of this world (therefore, of all things). As the hero of Tristram did Marius also didn’t reach his destination and didn’t justify his being a chosen one. But he may be excused because it was the powerful demons with a perverted mind, who managed to outwit the very protection of this world (the Fate, the Providence, if say so). Three Evils originally expected failure: this world is defending itself during the millennia; the heroes always won darkness and did it also at this time. But what remains of the powerful protection of Sanctuary now as the Worldstone have been destroyed? Will the Providence guide the humanity to the heroic deeds further? Will the great heroes rise further? Is there some "immune protection" of the world of Man from external threats after all of this? Deckard Cain believes there is. Even now the inhabitants of the Sanctuary have a choice. They must believe. For the very vague history of the humankind conceals a lot of unexpected surprises…
Thus, we have explained many contradictions in the plot of Diablo and answer to many contentious issues.
I hope my writtings are rather understandable. Orriginally I have written this article on my own languqe and then translated to English. Me English is very bad.
Apart from that, I think when Marius made those "impossible" journeys and feats, he was somewhat assisted indirectly by Tyrael's might or power, I'm just speculating though
Nice post btw, clears up a fair bit of things for me.
I haven't had time 2 read it all but the scene after killing diablo and watching marius and baal talking is post diablo killing, probably a substantial time passes, then another substantial time would pass before baal rallies his army.
^
^
No! You don't understand me. You should read at least the last two points of the article! Marius himself said that he heard later about Diablo's defeat because he belived in it in order to soften the pangs of his conscience and thanks to his gift of vision of the future which he considered as his memories (DREAMS, MEMORIES... I COULDN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE ANY MORE!). Ah, how may you discuss this article without reading it and knowing of its main ideas?
P.S. I think this article lack a visual pictures. I will try to find a time for editing this post and make a visual images to it.
In some of his vision he even have took part: his vision was showed with his presence in it... I need a screenshots of his "memories" from cinematics "sister's lament" and "enter the hell".
Journey to Kurast. How did Marius get to Kurast if he had no money to hire any midged ship? How did he get in temple city of Travincal teeming by corrupted believers of Zakarum who was making a human sacrifice?
Entering the recesses of the Temple. The adventurers were able to get in the Durance of Hatred only after killing the corrupted Council Members and destroying the Compelling Orb - a magical artifact which was used to control the Zakarum Priests and their followers. How did Marius manage to sneak in there? And most importantly, how did he get back? Where were the guardians at that while?
if that part is true than the game was broken as well, since those zakarumites and fanatics were all over the durance of hate, and those 3 council guys in lvl3.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Remember the String of Ears
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
Ah, how may you discuss this article without reading it and knowing of its main ideas?
I read every word of the article, and I must say that I enjoyed it! I think I now understand what you meant, and I guess it could be interpreted in a way that Marius simply could not understand his visions, and therefore wasn't sure what was real and what was not! But, the Diablo timeline tells us that the events from the first two games span across three years, which you already implied! If Baal was indeed visiting Marius before Diablo was defeated, then it must have been in a short amount of time! Then again, if Marius told this to Baal, and Diablo was still alive, why wouldn't Baal go to Hell and aid his brother if he knew that Marius' visions were true? Or did he just thought that the future, even if it is foreseen by a human, could never be changed?
You definitly should read my words with attention
Pay attention to this:
Demonic gambit. Thus, Marius told Baal what would be happened in the future believing that these are events of the past. Taking this course of affairs into the consideration, the Three hastened to be regrouped soon after their reunion. Defeats of Diablo and Mephisto was a Queen's gambit in a chess game, which allowed Baal to make a few smart moves and checkmate “the protection” of Sanctuary - nature of Soulstone has been corrupted, then this ancient artifact was destroyed by Tyrael.
and to this:
Three Evils originally expected failure: this world is defending itself during the millennia; the heroes always won darkness and did it also at this time. But what remains of the powerful protection of Sanctuary now as the Worldstone have been destroyed?
P.S. Finally I have found a true English equivalent of what I meant by words "Hand of Doom"! Providence... yes, that is what I meant. I understand that "Doom" means in most part a death, not a Fate.. Me should edit that my post as soon as possible....
According to Cain's Journal the advunturers had to sail ashore of barbarian lands.
Diablo is dead. I have long desired to hear these words, but now that they come, I feel little joy. News has also reached us of demonic army marching upon Arreat. This a Baal's doing, no doubt. We depart for north with the tide.
It is obvious that in fact Tyrael have opened portal back to Kurast, not to Harrogat. Your also see that they have heard news about marching of demonic army upon Arreat, not its coming to Sescheron's gate.
Also at the 20th day of Esunar (1263) Cain was siting, caged, amongst the screams and the hellfire. At the 2nd day of Kathon (1264) he was rescued.
So I figured out that Esunar is a last month of year and Kathon is first one anno Khejistani. (1)
1 Kathon
2 Solmaneth
3 Lycanum
4 Vasan
5 Jerharan
6 Damhar
7 Ratham
8 Esunar
I'm not sure, it could be in another cequence: (2)
1 Kathon
2 Vasan
3 Solmaneth
4 Lycanum
5 Jerharan
6 Damhar
7 Ratham
8 Esunar
---------- 1st day of Ratham (1264) - by this day Mefisto was already defeated. 4th day of Kathon (1265) - by this day Diablo was already defeated (in fact it was Esunar (the end of 1264) when he was won by heroes). 2nd day of Vasan (1265) - the adventureres are in Harrogat. 10th day of Vasan (1265) - Baal was defeated. This is a day of the destruction of the Worldstone
Approximately, Vasan is second or fourth month after Kathon (diablo's defeat). So there are 2-4 month between Diablo's defeat and the destruction of the Worldstone (Baal's defeat). Let's assume that Baal has formed his army soon after Mefisto's defeat (Damhar-Ratham). So Baal's army has reached Harrogat approximatly in 6(1) or 4(2) months after Mefisto's defeat. You shouldn't forget that barbarians didn't let demonic army reach Mount Arreat by easy way.
P.S. This 5 and 6 soon make me crazy. I had to edit this post several times because I made an errors with these years several times.
It is cannon. Blizzard even mentioned that they will do the same in Diablo 3 with the Diablo 2 characters because it was a really good way to tell the story.
No matter were Blood Raven a Rogue from DiabloI or not, this fact can't prevent her to be a seer. According to the Bible the prophets has risen even amongst the simple shepherds. If she wasn't a seer, Blizz could have given her another name, for example, Mistresss of Zombies, Zombie's Lady, Lady Zombiemaker After all, even when she was not a seer, this fact cannot to prevent Marius to be a seer, who might warn the Roques of the Evil that would claimed their Monastery.
• Next stop. Marius being a prophet. Well... sorry to ruin your conclussions but he isn't. He is not having dreams of the future. Marius is a lesser man. He has nightmares from the horrors he had seen in the Monastery and the Evil which it claimed it. So this makes him a firsthand witness of the corrupting of the Monastery. The poor guy was just a victim of sheer terror and it was inevitable that he will haunted by his memories.
According to Warrive's words the evil fiends spread all over the lands soon after Dark Wanderer passed 2 WEEKS ago. So, Rogue Monastery was fallen after the Wanderer passed the Eastern Gate.
• This concerns the upper argument as well. Diablo possibly took full control over the Wanderer in Inn where he met Marius. From that moment on the Wanderer = Diablo.
of course, that is a true no matter that he said to Marius that he had once been a great warrior... he meant in fact, that he was a great warrior of Hell during Great Conflict and now a dark sacred burden weigh heavily upon him. So this dark burden is his mission to rescrue his brother.
• I can find it hard to believe that Tyrael opened the gates of the tomb in order to allow the Wanderer to enter. Tyrael can pop up (materialize, teleport etc) wherever he wants (He came out of the ceiling in the Worldstone's Chamber after all). Tyrael always intervened in the affairs that took part on Sanctuary so it's not unsual for him to attempt to prevent Diablo from freeing his brother.
Of course, and Marius have used teleport to get out of this tomb.
• Diablo's encounter with Tyrael. Well Tyrael didn't know the hero from Diablo (he know of him but he didn't met him) and he most likely can see through the guise of him mortal anchor. He is an archangel ffs. He can recognize Diablo in any form.
Inarius hardly could recognize Diablo, when he show himself as an archangel Tyrael. An angel even proudly said that diablo couldn't mislead him. If diablo can't mislead an angel, he would never try to do so, and Inarius would never said that diablo never could trick him. Does he afraid that diablo realy can trick him?
- Lord Jerhyn ordered the ships ported because of the demons coming out of the Arcane Sanctuary in the palace, he ordered the royal guard to take care of them, that's why he also hired Greiz to keep the security in the city. The Dark Wanderer came to Lut Gholein before he made his journey with Marius to find the Tomb of Tal'Rasha.
- No prophetic drams ever occured to Marius. We don't know how Marius managed to get to Kurast, well what's obvious is obvious, he must have used a ship, but that remains unaccounted for and I don't mind that. What's important is that he managed to get there in a ordinary way - like using a ship, which doesn't translate to necessary using Meshif's ship, there might be other ships that made sail to Kurast, noone knows for sure.
Of course, in this fantasy realm people are so kind and liberal that with plesure help a stranger like Marius to sail Kurast even if he has no gold. "Please, help me to get Rome, there a great evil is awaited me to be destroyed by me..."
Well how then was Marius able to learn about the defeat of Diablo. Simple: story inconsistency, nothing cosmicly overcomplicated. But if you have payed attention to http://eu.blizzard.c...ld/timeline.xml you will se that in 1264
Diablo was defeated at the end of this year (1264,Esunar). Baal was defeated 2-4 month later after diablo's defeat (Vasan);
P.S. A lot of your arguements was a sophistical one. You tryed to disprove what I even didn't mention in my theory.
• Marius' second dream. Well he even said it rather clearly in the "Desert Journey" cinematic. "However the dreams returned but this were clearly not my own". And surprise surprise who was his companion? - Diablo. He could easily extract the dream in Marius' fragile mind. And when Marius finally awoke from his dream, Diablo told him "Now you know what I seek, Marius. This is my brother". And it is damn obvious that he was referring to Baal.
CONTRADICTS THIS:
And you are sure that he talked about his deeds and feats in the Great Conflict because? He obviously tried to some how deceive Marius he told him of the life of the Wanderer, by possesing his body and soul he had access to all of the memories of the host. Diablo is not concerened with keeping Marius entertained by his stories as long as Marius tags along with him.
THINK ABOUT 5 OR 6 TIMES BEFORE MAKE SOME ACTION!
Inarius hardly could recognize Diablo, when he show himself as an archangel Tyrael. An angel even proudly said that diablo couldn't mislead him. If diablo can't mislead an angel, he would never try to do so, and Inarius would never said that diablo never could trick him. Does he afraid that diablo realy can trick him?
That's because Diablo used his strongest weapon against Inarius - fear. While during the meeting with Tyrael within Tal'Rasha's Tomb he didn't have the powers to do so again.
You're right! The fear was what allowed Inarius to recognize him as Lord of Terror!!! his strongest weapon was a clue, which let Inarius recognize him. YOu yourself contradict to your own arguements.
So can you answer me after reading these?
Why Marius? Why Marius was exactly who Diablo needed? Only for setting the Lord of Destruction frees? Apparently Diablo foresaw he would meet an obstacle in the tomb. If Diablo need a man who frees Baal while an archangel battling the Wanderer, it would be rational to find someone in Lut Gholein and not to drag someone through the desert (one never knows hour: Marius could perish in the way).
WHY?
Please note, after the rumors about the Dark Wanderer have spread, Lord Jerhyn forbade all ships from leaving port. Your can check it by going to talk Meshif and listen to his introduction.
There were no RUMORS. The Dark Wanderer visited Lut Gholein and asked around about the Tomb's location. He ordered the ships ported because of the demons that were entering his palace from the Arcane Sanctuary.
I have written so, because Lord Jerhyn was mentioning dark wanderer in his introduction, and this fact is not a foundation of my theory so it can't be an argument against my theory. This note was just note, no more, in order to note, that ships were forbidden from leaving a port. Don't be so picky.
Wait, what? Did I say that? We saw him run out of the tomb at the end of the cinematic. Just because we didn't saw him run the whole way back doesn't mean he had teleported...
Do you mean by saying this that someone help him to get out of there? Tyrael, Diablo and Baal themselves? In order to let him go away? Cinematics shows the scene, when Marius reached outwards of the tomb... Or you mean that Marius did it only after the heroes opened that chamber? Are you sure that this way of an explanations make more sense?
At the time he was still fighting with Diablo within his soul (a battle that was doomed to be lost) and he thought that he might end all of this. That's why he traveled east, he passed the Monastery guarding the way to the East. where Marius was unfortunate to encounter him and the horrors that he unleashed in his wake, and then entered the Inn (where yet again Marius was present) that's when his soul was consumed and Diablo continued the journey to free his imprisoned brother with Marius joining him when the Wanderer beckoned, he really didn't have a clue why he was following him, out of fear most likely...
This all don't contradict my theory I know all of this before you post this.
Marius could have sneaked upon a ship. So what? You don't know for sure how he managed to get on a ship - he might have payed or he might have signed as a deckhand if that will get him to Kurast. Is that really that important?! He was alone in his quest, Tyrael didn't aid him, he was left to complete his task all by himself.
So answer me, after reading this
Entering the recesses of the Temple. The adventurers were able to get in the Durance of Hatred only after killing the corrupted Council Members and destroying the Compelling Orb - a magical artifact which was used to control the Zakarum Priests and their followers. How did Marius manage to sneak in there? And most importantly, how did he get back? Where were the guardians at that while?
HOW DID HE GET IN THE DURANCE OF HATRED?
Diablo was defeated at the end of this year (1264,Esunar). Baal was defeated 2-4 month later after diablo's defeat (Vasan);
It's still the next year. Don't be so picky you know exactly what I meant.
Anyway, if so, there are just 2-4 months between Diablo's Defeat and the destruction of the Soulstone. In 1265, Kathon (after Esunar, 1264) adventurers just heard of a news that demonic army was marching upon Arreat. Who know how many months pass after entering demonic army the barbarian lands. maybe it was in Esunar, when Diablo was just defeated, and Marius, being in the asylum heard of this great event from his... from simple persons who keep that asylum... If such simple persons knew about this event... these stories of diablo couldn't be forgotten even by their children... Without mentioning that Baal have already transformed into another form... when he led his army while the heroes was killing Diablo. While Baal was searching for Marius he was hooded and did have two legs, not four or eight.
P.S. ALL OF YOUR EXPLANATIONS OF DIABLO PLOT WAS ONCE MY EXPLANATIONS UNTILL I MADE THIS THEORY.
^
^
But you also was suggesting that the Wanderer could teleport to secret chamber by saying that Tyrael did it the same way. But you can't EXPLAIN how twO companions entered this secret chamber.
SO YOUR NEXT WORDS
I have answered all of those in my post. I can also see that your English is quite poor (no offence please) and you can't understand even the most basic things in my arguments.
ARE NOT CORRECT. YOUR SHOULD ANSWER THOSE OF MY QUESTIONS. DO NOT ESCAPE.
You intentionally avoid some of my points
Because my other arguments annihilate that "some of your points" which "I intentionally avoid" and... sometimes, your own arguements annihilate your another ones.
If you think that I can't express my thoughts well because my english is bad, you are wrong. Somehow I've been doing this all this time. I HAVE uderstood all of you post, and my only problem is my poor bag of English words.
I will refrain from further posting. You intentionally avoid some of my points. I have answered all of those in my post.
I HAVE EDITED MY POST 21 SO YOU MAY READ IT AGAIN. I HOPE YOU WILL FIND A REPLIES TO ALL YOUR QUESTIONS. if you don't find one, just tell me, and i'll try to reply
I didn't not contradict any of my previous posts at any time and none of your pathetic argruments managed to "annihilate" any of mine.
you should read my post 21, there you'll find what i mean by saying "your own arguements annihilate your another ones".
No! Noone helped him. He ran out of the tomb alone, simple as that!
Yes, I knew it before you tell me about this. but thing is that, there is some obstacles which prevent Marius from running out of the tomb alone because that chamber was not opened by either Tyrael or the Wanderer according to your words!!!
Did you find the replies for you questions, anyway in post 21?
No. You are hopeless. I am tired of repeating the same things all over again and then repeating them once more.
This was answer to my
Yes, I knew it before you tell me about this. but thing is that, there is some obstacles which prevent Marius from running out of the tomb alone because that chamber was not opened by either Tyrael or the Wanderer according to your words!!!
or it was for all of what i have written in post 21? If so, I should say that you are generalizing. I hate such a thing. I have point out your points which contradicts to your own arguements and you didn't comment it.
DON'T THINK THAT YOU ARE SUCH A SMART BOY WHO ONLY UDERSTAND ALL PLOT AND LORE OF DIABLO. WHAT YOU WAS POSTING WAS WHAT I HAVE ALREADY READ MANY TIMES IN DIABLOWIKI AND I ALWAYS KEEP IN MIND ALL OF THIS WHEN I WAS MAKING THAT THEORY. I have took into my consideration all big and small things in lore. I have took into consideration all contradictions and absurdities which can be appeared in my theory. So stop writting these offencive words such as "narrow-minded" and so on. THing is that you can't keep in mind all complexity of the events in question at once.
And yeah, Doomscream, you contradicted yourself once and Archantyrael quoted that.
Twice!!!! Second one is concerning the powerfull weapon of Diablo - Fear. Which hardly could trick Inarius, because every angel know who is master of terror and fear.
2 Doomscream
Are serious, ffs? This is the killer argument that got me all scared and running away? LOL!
You are only person who says so, while some people think that there are a lot of arguements you are not able to disprove.
but what troubles me is that you seem to be trying to make yourself some sort of a loremaster now, am I right? You really like to repeat how many times you have read this and that and what not.
Anyone can be a lore master if he loves diablo world much enough (Love is a great power).
As for "how many times": I am one of the foreign people translating diablowiki lore to his own in order to inform other people who doesn't know English because english sites are realy proved sources of the lore of this English Game. There were a times when my english was more bad than now and I had to read every senctences of diablowiki several times in order to translate it to my own... In addition, you are so picky!
Marius and Blood Raven being prophets? WTF. Marius didn't have glimpses of the future, only nightames of the horrors he had witnessed.
I have already posted:
After all, even if she was not a seer, this fact cannot to prevent Marius to be a seer, who might warn the Roques of the Evil that would claimed their Monastery.
and
According to Warrive's words the evil fiends spread all over the lands soon after Dark Wanderer passed 2 WEEKS ago. So, Rogue Monastery was fallen after the Wanderer passed the Eastern Gate.
------------
Are you acually trying to mock me by calling me a boy (wow I am 3 years younger and I am made fun at)
Excuse me, I didn't know this word means only a young male of little age. Now thanks to you I know that:
"a smart boy" is an offencive words which can be used in order to mock a younger male.
-----------
I love this game but its world I love more much. That's why I don't want accept that plot holes... Keep in mind I have not made this theory in order to asure you that it is indisputable truth. My theory don't contradict cannon lore, only generally accepted conclusions can contradict it. Don't forget, that there were a times of the wrong conclusions which we made untill Blizz gave us new details. With every new details Blizz gives us, we have to change our gennarally accepted conclusions and opinions.
for example, 1) There were a times when we mistakenly thought that angels are kind and liberal guys. 2) When we was playing Diablo I, we was sure that the Soulstones of Mefisto and Baal were burried under the sands of eastern deserts (Book I: of Heaven and Hell) untill Diablo II was released. Now, according to the same timeline, Mefisto was burried in the jungle of Kehjistan soon after he was defeated in the Kehjistan. 3) When we was playing Diablo II, we was sure that the Worldstone was a protection of Sanctuary without knowing what kind of protection is this untill Sin War Trilogy was published. We was making wrong conclusions about the protection of the Worldstone. But now we know, the Worldstone was a manner to make nephalem to bereft of their power in order to prevent Lilith's intentions (she was so interested in human's power), later, also the plots of the Prime Evils and Lucion. Only thanks to this Trylogy we know that there was a link between Inarius and the Worldstone which give him a power, allowed him somehow to rule Sanctuary - thanks to it we may guess that in fact Baal have intention to link himself with the Worldstone in order to rule Sanctuary as Inarius did it many centuries ago.
According to this trylogy we know that
"The Balance is the even distribution of Light and Dark. Its essence is most significant to Sanctuary, but it goes beyond, to all of creation. A world where Dark rules would burn itself up. A world where Light commands would eventually stagnate. If either gained enough control of Sanctuary so that the other could not match it again, then that would be the end of all things…"
Which means that THE HUMANITY IS REALY AN ABOMINATION OF ALL CREATION, THE UNIT, WHICH CAN BE A REASON OF THE END OF ALL THINGS BECAUSE ONLY HUMANITY CAN ALLOW ONE OF THE SIDES TO TAKE THE CONTROL OF ALL.
So the Worldstone was just a manner which prevented a humanity from a great responcibility which come with a great power.
I can write many examples like these but I'm not sure that you will read it all to the end.
I can not avoid this any longer, your stubborness is fascinating. You really made me loose my temper.
You are an idiot.
These are the words of who are loosing. May I guess, my stubborness is a quality you don't have, isn't it? I'm enjoying of your hot temper.
I didn't contradict my self you, lunatic!
I'm glad that you like my avatar.
WHERE?! WHERE I said tricked. Actually you said it. At first Inarius hesitated, because he was facing his greatest fear obviously, but he managed to shake out of it and dismantled Diablo, because his is of a greater status and can see those things, I didn't say that he was with the permanent impression that Tyrael was paying him a visit.
1) Diablo's fear was a clue which allowed Inarius to recognize him and understand that he faced Lord of Terror himself. Can you disprove that?
2) Diablo can rule the fear (so, he can turn it off) Can you disprove that?
3)Diablo are able to turn his "fearing aura" off when he faced Tyrael. Can you disprove that?
Now allow me to tell the story of Blood Raven. She was the closest friend of Kashya. Blood Raven led a band of rogues to battle Diablo in the labyrinth beneath Tristram. But she fell pray to Diablo's corruption and brought an evil influence back with her. there should be some events which should happen before she became a lienutenant of Andariel.
you didn't pointed it out.for example, the Rogue(s) should summon Andariel.
Later on she became a lieutenant of Andrariel and which ultamately turned her against the Sisterhood. After that she is found rasing the dead in the monastery graveyard.
These all facts can't prevent her from being a Raven - seer, who foretelling bad prophecy. YOu yourself know that Hero of Tristram have dreams, visions and cried out during his sleeping, and he mentioning about strange things that a simple people couldn't understand. She also could did the same. AGAIN, her being a seer is not a foundation of my theory. I can even decline it if I want. But Marius's being a looser, who couldn't use his gift, is a foundation of my theory.
And his words confirm that
Were these the demons from my dreams, or were they born... within the Wanderer?
Why did I follow him? I don't know. Why do things happen as they do in dreams?
1) There is no reason for Diablo to have intention to make Marius know about him and warn him of the horrors that were in store for him in future, even if he have chosen Marius as his victum and a weapon. It'd better for Diablo keep Marius in ignorance.
(It concerns that vision about Tal Rasha's binding.)
2) There is no reason for Diablo to have intention to tell the mortal that he searching for a demon in order to set loose him upon the world. A hero, who couldn't make differ between his own thought and demon's, make more sense.
3) Marius saw his nightmares before they passed the Estern Gate.
4) The Evil have claimed Rogue Monastery after the Wanderer passed the Eastern Gate (Warrive's words).
5) So Marius saw his "memories" of Rogue Monastery before the Evil claimed it.
Marius was obviously there in the company of other rogues.
1) Rogue Monastery is a residence of a female Rogue, not male. (there is no male Rogue)
2) Marius is a male
3) Marius have no right to be in Rogue Monastery and so he could't witness its coruption.
One of the principles I hold in my theory is “If a mount couldn’t come to Muhammed, Muhammed should come to a mount”. “If Marius couldn’t get in Durance of Hatred, Durance of Hatred should be a place where Marius was in his dreams” and so on.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
SEARCHING FOR FACTS AND INFORMATIONS
Questionable and dubious facts serve for a detective as the clues, which he uses for trying to recreate the events of the past in his imagination in order to find the truth…
The tomb of Tal Rasha. Heroes managed to enter a secret vault only by Horadric Stuff which allowed opening the way to the wall-up room, where Duriel has awaited for them. How Dark Wanderer and Marius came to the place of imprisonment of the great Horadrim mage? Was there another secret way? Probably it was made just thanks to powerful knowledge of the Dark Wanderer… But how Marius by himself could get back out of there without any powerful skills?
Tyrael and Marius. Why has Tyrael not taken the Soulstone from Marius? What he thinking about? This can be attributed to the fact that he was exhausted after his long stay in the mortal realm. But the archangel could send to Marius someone else, for example, the same heroes who rescued him.
Journey to Kurast. How did Marius get to Kurast if he had no money to hire any midged ship? How did he get in temple city of Travincal teeming by corrupted believers of Zakarum who was making a human sacrifice?
Entering the recesses of the Temple. The adventurers were able to get in the Durance of Hatred only after killing the corrupted Council Members and destroying the Compelling Orb - a magical artifact which was used to control the Zakarum Priests and their followers. How did Marius manage to sneak in there? And most importantly, how did he get back? Where were the guardians at that while?
Discrepancy in the timeline. Remarkably, Marius said Baal that he has already heard about Diablo’s defeat, while the heroes still fighting in the fiery depths of hell and probably has not managed to kill Diablo. We know that when Diablo was just defeated, Baal has already managed to form his demonic army and led it into the lands of barbarians. He could not be in two places at once. He either has to lead his demonic army in the lands of barbarians, or looking for Marius, who couldn’t have known that Diablo was defeated. He could have learned about it only after that news has reached a mortal world. And we exactly know that news about Diablo’s defeat reached the humans only while Baal was already taking the barbarian fortresses one by one.
Note: For most people this great event remained unknown, and only a few knew about it. Also in the cinematics we can see that Baal has already taken his Soulstone and wears it as an amulet.
Why Marius? Why Marius was exactly who Diablo needed? Only for setting the Lord of Destruction frees? Apparently Diablo foresaw he would meet an obstacle in the tomb. If Diablo need a man who frees Baal while archangel battling Wanderer, it would be rational to find someone in Lut Gholein and not to drag someone through the desert (one never knows hour: Marius could perish in the way).
We also know that the Hero of Tristram has lost himself completely only after he entered the tomb of Tal Rasha.
THEORIES, FINDINGS AND CONCLUSIONS
We have collected the necessary information and now we will try to recreate the events of the past and as the artist-restorer finish of missing details in the picture.
Dreams of Marius. Let us recall his dreams. Marius is like a person who has the gift of vision of the past and the future but who still hasn’t realized his gift, therefore, his destiny. Previously, Marius saw a vision of the future, which he recognized as his nightmares later actually came to be real:
Later, he beheld a vision of the past:
Let’s assume that Marius was given a great role prepared by Doom itself. This point somehow accentuates his uniqueness and make Diablo opt on him. But then what was its purpose?
When the Evil enters the world and the world face great danger, it is usually set in motion the powerful protective mechanisms of the world: there should be a rise of the prophets and the great heroes who are not immediately aware of their destiny and has to wandering around the world and in their thoughts for a some time, led by the Providence. And, finally, they become the ones who made their own destiny. Obviously Marius also was led by Providence in the same way:
Well, we see that the Providence led him toward the Rogue Monastery. But what he was there to do? What a great feat he could do? Let’s recall that the Rogue Monastery had fallen under the evil influence of the demoness, Andariel. Do you remember that we have encountered Blood Raven in Diablo II (Act I)? We may guess by her name that she was a seer, most likely false prophetess… What role she played in the fall of the Rogues? Let’s assume that she has stated the Sisterhood a false path led to the appearance of Andariel in the mortal world. Apparently, Marius should have recognized his nightmares as a prophetic in order to warn the Sisterhood of the evil that would claimed their ancestral monastery:
Saying the truth he calls them a memories not a vision, however, he also notes that he couldn’t tell the difference between his dreams and memories. We shall return to it later. Thus, the appearance of Andariel in the mortal world could be break due to Marius, but Diablo prevented it as he deftly cleared the obstruction that may close the path for demoness. BUT WHY DIABLO DOES NOT JUST KILL MARIUS? Let us return to the story of Marius:
It is clear that Hero of Tristram had not yet lost himself and continued to struggle with the dark demonic influence. Consequently, he had no intention to kill Marius. It is obvious that Diablo skillfully manipulated the mind of hero in order to make him do as he wished. In the cinematics we can see that he did not touch any person, and a slaughter was made by the crowd of hellish brood released from the Wanderer against his will. Also the cinematics shows that the Dark Wanderer sometimes didn’t make differ between demon’s thoughts and his own:
Note: However, it can be interpreted differently: maybe Dark Wanderer considered as his brother very Tal Rasha, not Baal. Indeed, they are "brothers in destiny" because they both hold the soul of the great demons in their bodies…
Thus, after Marius followed Dark Wanderer and so has not reached his destination prepared by Providence, Diablo let him alone and concentrated on the hero. These events (the monastery, the tomb) are beginning to resemble a chess game. Dark Wanderer and Marius marched in Lut Gholein, and then went to the tomb of Tal Rasha. There they were awaited by no one but Tyrael himself…
In the tomb of Tal Rasha. Tyrael’s planning.
Two companions went into the cave of the tomb and found the entrance to the secret hall where Tal Rasha was bound.
Thus, the hero of Tristram completely was possessed by demon. But how they get in that great hall? In the cinematics we can see that the entrance was closing by Tyrael himself. Obviously, he definitely was who opened the entrance in order to wait for the Wanderer. He expected to see a great hero once defeated Diablo and who could enter the infernal gate and destroy all of the Soulstones. Apparently Tyrael prepared a crusade against Mephisto who has corrupted the entire Kurast, and then after his defeat to enter the infernal gate to destroy all of three evil stones. However, a disappointment was awaiting him…
– These were the first words of the archangel when two companions came at the place of the imprisonment of Tal Rasha and one of them was going to pull the stone out of the chest of bound beast. The Wanderer being stopped by fiery tentacles, has suddenly attacked the archangel that he has even to recede. Apparently he wasn’t expecting such an action from the Wanderer. But Tyrael continued to experience him, not knowing that the hero isn’t one who had once been any more. That is why angel fought him half-heartedly instead of overwhelming him by his flaming sword. Finally, Tyrael saw in him a man possessed by demon. But suddenly, Marius pulled the stone from the chest of the monster. The demon was released, and the crystal itself could not retain him for a long. Even after killing that creature Tal Rasha transformed into, the Soulstone would represent a great danger; therefore, it must be destroyed as soon as possible… Everything turned out not as the archangel expected. The hero of Tristram did not meet his expectations. And Tyrael’s choice forcedly fell on his companion - an infirm seer instead of a mighty warrior. Apparently Marius was also needed to the angel, not only the demon.
Is Tyrael’s act foolish and thoughtless? That is how the words of Tyrael said to Marius sound:
We see Tyrael well aware of there is a portal to Hell under the Temple of Light. Please note that while the clergy of Zakarum was corrupted under the evil influence of the Lord of Hatred, the Temple of Light was desecrated by an abomination of human sacrifices, and the entire Kurast turned into a den of fanatical zakarumites and evil fiends. Tyrael couldn’t not to know about these facts, but despite these all, he decides to send Marius straight into the clutches of Mephisto! What a folly! How could he do likewise? This can be ascribed only to his despair. Well, despair quite fit the way to the event in question.
Let's see the other side. Tyrael could say that in order to mislead very demons, who also heard his words. Tyrael knew that such a feeble human like Marius is not able to find the means for hiring a ship for a rather short while and sailing ashore of Kurast. He would take a long time to find the right amount of gold (perhaps even assemble a team) to sail west, without mentioning about how he will penetrate into the Temple of Light and get into the infernal gate. Archangel was desperately hoping that the brothers would not pursue Marius and would go straight to Kurast, believing that Marius with Baal’s Soulstone would come right to their hands by himself. Tyrael hoped that after the demons went to Kurast, he would find Marius and take the Soulstone...
Thus, Marius took the Soulstone and ran.
The influence of Baal’s Soulstone. It was then very interesting things started. Marius ran into Lut Gholein, because only there he can find a ship and sail to Kurast. Please note, after the rumors about the Dark Wanderer have spread, Lord Jerhyn forbade all ships from leaving port. Your can check it by going to talk Meshif and listen to his introduction. Meanwhile the prophetic dreams about the future nightmares went on to follow Marius in his heels, and the Soulstone begins to affect his body and mind. From the cinematics we know that the body of Marius prematurely aged since he got the Soulstone.
Note: According to the official timeline the events of the game – beginning from the events in Tristram and ended with the destruction of the Worldstone – took only three years.
Even if the Soulstone couldn’t distort the vision of Marius, it might influence to his perception of what is happening, therefore, to his attempts to interpret his prophetic dreams. Under the evil influence of the magic stone Marius began to perceive a vision of the future as THE EVENTS THAT HAVE ALREADY HAPPENED LONG AGO. Thus, it could prevent him to warn mankind about the coming Evil in order to prevent it. Soon, Marius, realizing that he going crazy, has to seek refuge and finally got in the asylum.
Note: Marius could have got in there in other ways. For example, he could, though late, but finally have realized his destiny, and therefore, was trying to announce about the upcoming Evil in the crowded places, and prophesied about the end of all things. Eventually, he could try to persuade people to help him get into Kurast while the ships are prohibited from leaving port. For these acts he could be easily clapped in a jail or an asylum, and then being driven to the mad under the evil influence of the stone, he could completely cease to distinguish his visions from his memories…
Do not hesitate by this turn of the events, I know that you wish to argue that Marius came in an asylum only after he visited the deep recesses of the temple and saw a dark gathering of the Three. But ask yourself, what a chance has he had for getting there? Roughly speaking, none. Well, what a chance has he had for beholding the prophetic vision of this event? If some speculation light you up now, do not rush to conclusions but keep reading ;).
The conversation with Baal. So, being in the asylum, Marius completely abstracted out of the real world and began to believe that all of his visions were his memories or events had occurred long ago ("Dreams, memories ... I couldn’t tell the difference any more”). Let’s make clear, where was the asylum Marius has hidden. From the cinematics we remember that when the Baal was leaving the inflamed building, a scarab beetles also crawled out. But these insects are found in… Lut Gholein! You can see these interesting insects in Diablo II (Act II) around NPC named Drognan. Even without this fact, you should be sure that his shelter had to be precisely in Lut Gholein or at least in its vicinity (he hardly could find an asylum in the corrupted lands of Kurast).
Tyrael was bound to the Binding Stone and was awaited the arrival of the true heroes, who would later crusade onto the corrupted lands of Kurast. Contrary to the desperate hope of the archangel, the Brothers figured out that before going to Kurast, they should have search Marius in order to take the Soulstone back. Baal took advantage of Tal Rasha’s secret knowledge in order to close the secret hall (maybe even wall-up it) which was later reopened by the adventurers. Also, the demons have taken care to leave Duriel in order he would arrange a "cool" meeting for Cain’s friends. Baal then went to Lut Gholein and was searching for Marius for a long time and finally found him in the asylum:
Marius has recognized him as an archangel. Baal has listened to the story of the seer, in which he told the demon that he was in the deepest recesses of the Temple of Light, oversaw the reunification of Three Evils and ended his story with the next words:
Demonic gambit. Thus, Marius told Baal what would be happened in the future believing that these are events of the past. Taking this course of affairs into the consideration, the Three hastened to be regrouped soon after their reunion. Defeats of Diablo and Mephisto was a Queen's gambit in a chess game, which allowed Baal to make a few smart moves and checkmate “the protection” of Sanctuary - nature of Soulstone has been corrupted, then this ancient artifact was destroyed by Tyrael. As you can see Tyrael couldn’t take the stone from Marius, because after his release, he was not only exhausted but Marius was no longer alive, and Baal was going to Kurast and HE HAS ALREADY HAVE HIS SOULSTONE.
However, the seer has suffered the pangs of his conscience that he couldn’t enter the gate to Hell. But Marius was consoling himself that he though dared to get in the temple of the Zakarum, and therefore, he was able to perform a part of the job at least. Even though he has not entered there, Marius thought, Diablo was defeated anyway. These were his excuses. This is the way he tried to soften the pangs of his conscience by. But in fact, he did all as an angel means - he has hidden in the most secret place he could found. Even Baal himself rightly pointed out:
Nevertheless, Marius could not escape from him. Perhaps, the thing is that, there could be some link between Tal Rasha and the Soulstone, which allowed him to discover the location of Marius.
Be that as it may, we shouldn’t forget that Marius made the greatest sin against the security of this world (therefore, of all things). As the hero of Tristram did Marius also didn’t reach his destination and didn’t justify his being a chosen one. But he may be excused because it was the powerful demons with a perverted mind, who managed to outwit the very protection of this world (the Fate, the Providence, if say so). Three Evils originally expected failure: this world is defending itself during the millennia; the heroes always won darkness and did it also at this time. But what remains of the powerful protection of Sanctuary now as the Worldstone have been destroyed? Will the Providence guide the humanity to the heroic deeds further? Will the great heroes rise further? Is there some "immune protection" of the world of Man from external threats after all of this? Deckard Cain believes there is. Even now the inhabitants of the Sanctuary have a choice. They must believe. For the very vague history of the humankind conceals a lot of unexpected surprises…
Thus, we have explained many contradictions in the plot of Diablo and answer to many contentious issues.
Referential materials:
Diablo II Cinematics
Nice post btw, clears up a fair bit of things for me.
Thanks Caniroth for the awesome sig!
^
but according to this article Baal have listened to the story of Marius BEFORE DIABLO'S DEFEAT!!! You're should read all of this to the end!
P.S. Hand of Doom is a cursor of your mouse when you're playing diablo!:)
^
No! You don't understand me. You should read at least the last two points of the article! Marius himself said that he heard later about Diablo's defeat because he belived in it in order to soften the pangs of his conscience and thanks to his gift of vision of the future which he considered as his memories (DREAMS, MEMORIES... I COULDN'T TELL THE DIFFERENCE ANY MORE!). Ah, how may you discuss this article without reading it and knowing of its main ideas?
In some of his vision he even have took part: his vision was showed with his presence in it... I need a screenshots of his "memories" from cinematics "sister's lament" and "enter the hell".
"to the worm in horseradish, the world is horseradish."
Pay attention to this:
and to this:
P.S. Finally I have found a true English equivalent of what I meant by words "Hand of Doom"! Providence... yes, that is what I meant. I understand that "Doom" means in most part a death, not a Fate.. Me should edit that my post as soon as possible....
It is obvious that in fact Tyrael have opened portal back to Kurast, not to Harrogat. Your also see that they have heard news about marching of demonic army upon Arreat, not its coming to Sescheron's gate.
Also at the 20th day of Esunar (1263) Cain was siting, caged, amongst the screams and the hellfire. At the 2nd day of Kathon (1264) he was rescued.
So I figured out that Esunar is a last month of year and Kathon is first one anno Khejistani.
(1)
1 Kathon
2 Solmaneth
3 Lycanum
4 Vasan
5 Jerharan
6 Damhar
7 Ratham
8 Esunar
I'm not sure, it could be in another cequence:
(2)
1 Kathon
2 Vasan
3 Solmaneth
4 Lycanum
5 Jerharan
6 Damhar
7 Ratham
8 Esunar
----------
1st day of Ratham (1264) - by this day Mefisto was already defeated.
4th day of Kathon (1265) - by this day Diablo was already defeated (in fact it was Esunar (the end of 1264) when he was won by heroes).
2nd day of Vasan (1265) - the adventureres are in Harrogat.
10th day of Vasan (1265) - Baal was defeated. This is a day of the destruction of the Worldstone
Approximately, Vasan is second or fourth month after Kathon (diablo's defeat). So there are 2-4 month between Diablo's defeat and the destruction of the Worldstone (Baal's defeat). Let's assume that Baal has formed his army soon after Mefisto's defeat (Damhar-Ratham). So Baal's army has reached Harrogat approximatly in 6(1) or 4(2) months after Mefisto's defeat. You shouldn't forget that barbarians didn't let demonic army reach Mount Arreat by easy way.
P.S. This 5 and 6 soon make me crazy. I had to edit this post several times because I made an errors with these years several times.
No matter were Blood Raven a Rogue from DiabloI or not, this fact can't prevent her to be a seer. According to the Bible the prophets has risen even amongst the simple shepherds. If she wasn't a seer, Blizz could have given her another name, for example, Mistresss of Zombies, Zombie's Lady, Lady Zombiemaker After all, even when she was not a seer, this fact cannot to prevent Marius to be a seer, who might warn the Roques of the Evil that would claimed their Monastery.
According to Warrive's words the evil fiends spread all over the lands soon after Dark Wanderer passed 2 WEEKS ago. So, Rogue Monastery was fallen after the Wanderer passed the Eastern Gate.
of course, that is a true no matter that he said to Marius that he had once been a great warrior... he meant in fact, that he was a great warrior of Hell during Great Conflict and now a dark sacred burden weigh heavily upon him. So this dark burden is his mission to rescrue his brother.
Of course, and Marius have used teleport to get out of this tomb.
Inarius hardly could recognize Diablo, when he show himself as an archangel Tyrael. An angel even proudly said that diablo couldn't mislead him. If diablo can't mislead an angel, he would never try to do so, and Inarius would never said that diablo never could trick him. Does he afraid that diablo realy can trick him?
Of course, in this fantasy realm people are so kind and liberal that with plesure help a stranger like Marius to sail Kurast even if he has no gold. "Please, help me to get Rome, there a great evil is awaited me to be destroyed by me..."
Diablo was defeated at the end of this year (1264,Esunar). Baal was defeated 2-4 month later after diablo's defeat (Vasan);
P.S. A lot of your arguements was a sophistical one. You tryed to disprove what I even didn't mention in my theory.
CONTRADICTS THIS:
THINK ABOUT 5 OR 6 TIMES BEFORE MAKE SOME ACTION!
You're right! The fear was what allowed Inarius to recognize him as Lord of Terror!!! his strongest weapon was a clue, which let Inarius recognize him. YOu yourself contradict to your own arguements.
So can you answer me after reading these?
WHY?
I have written so, because Lord Jerhyn was mentioning dark wanderer in his introduction, and this fact is not a foundation of my theory so it can't be an argument against my theory. This note was just note, no more, in order to note, that ships were forbidden from leaving a port. Don't be so picky.
Do you mean by saying this that someone help him to get out of there? Tyrael, Diablo and Baal themselves? In order to let him go away? Cinematics shows the scene, when Marius reached outwards of the tomb... Or you mean that Marius did it only after the heroes opened that chamber? Are you sure that this way of an explanations make more sense?
This all don't contradict my theory I know all of this before you post this.
So answer me, after reading this
HOW DID HE GET IN THE DURANCE OF HATRED?
Anyway, if so, there are just 2-4 months between Diablo's Defeat and the destruction of the Soulstone. In 1265, Kathon (after Esunar, 1264) adventurers just heard of a news that demonic army was marching upon Arreat. Who know how many months pass after entering demonic army the barbarian lands. maybe it was in Esunar, when Diablo was just defeated, and Marius, being in the asylum heard of this great event from his... from simple persons who keep that asylum... If such simple persons knew about this event... these stories of diablo couldn't be forgotten even by their children... Without mentioning that Baal have already transformed into another form... when he led his army while the heroes was killing Diablo. While Baal was searching for Marius he was hooded and did have two legs, not four or eight.
P.S. ALL OF YOUR EXPLANATIONS OF DIABLO PLOT WAS ONCE MY EXPLANATIONS UNTILL I MADE THIS THEORY.
^
But you also was suggesting that the Wanderer could teleport to secret chamber by saying that Tyrael did it the same way. But you can't EXPLAIN how twO companions entered this secret chamber.
SO YOUR NEXT WORDS
ARE NOT CORRECT. YOUR SHOULD ANSWER THOSE OF MY QUESTIONS. DO NOT ESCAPE.
Because my other arguments annihilate that "some of your points" which "I intentionally avoid" and... sometimes, your own arguements annihilate your another ones.
If you think that I can't express my thoughts well because my english is bad, you are wrong. Somehow I've been doing this all this time. I HAVE uderstood all of you post, and my only problem is my poor bag of English words.
I HAVE EDITED MY POST 21 SO YOU MAY READ IT AGAIN. I HOPE YOU WILL FIND A REPLIES TO ALL YOUR QUESTIONS. if you don't find one, just tell me, and i'll try to reply
you should read my post 21, there you'll find what i mean by saying "your own arguements annihilate your another ones".
Yes, I knew it before you tell me about this. but thing is that, there is some obstacles which prevent Marius from running out of the tomb alone because that chamber was not opened by either Tyrael or the Wanderer according to your words!!!
This was answer to my
or it was for all of what i have written in post 21? If so, I should say that you are generalizing. I hate such a thing. I have point out your points which contradicts to your own arguements and you didn't comment it.
DON'T THINK THAT YOU ARE SUCH A SMART BOY WHO ONLY UDERSTAND ALL PLOT AND LORE OF DIABLO. WHAT YOU WAS POSTING WAS WHAT I HAVE ALREADY READ MANY TIMES IN DIABLOWIKI AND I ALWAYS KEEP IN MIND ALL OF THIS WHEN I WAS MAKING THAT THEORY. I have took into my consideration all big and small things in lore. I have took into consideration all contradictions and absurdities which can be appeared in my theory. So stop writting these offencive words such as "narrow-minded" and so on. THing is that you can't keep in mind all complexity of the events in question at once.
Twice!!!! Second one is concerning the powerfull weapon of Diablo - Fear. Which hardly could trick Inarius, because every angel know who is master of terror and fear.
2 Doomscream
You are only person who says so, while some people think that there are a lot of arguements you are not able to disprove.
Anyone can be a lore master if he loves diablo world much enough (Love is a great power).
As for "how many times": I am one of the foreign people translating diablowiki lore to his own in order to inform other people who doesn't know English because english sites are realy proved sources of the lore of this English Game. There were a times when my english was more bad than now and I had to read every senctences of diablowiki several times in order to translate it to my own... In addition, you are so picky!
I have already posted:
and
------------
Excuse me, I didn't know this word means only a young male of little age. Now thanks to you I know that:
"a smart boy" is an offencive words which can be used in order to mock a younger male.
-----------
I love this game but its world I love more much. That's why I don't want accept that plot holes... Keep in mind I have not made this theory in order to asure you that it is indisputable truth. My theory don't contradict cannon lore, only generally accepted conclusions can contradict it. Don't forget, that there were a times of the wrong conclusions which we made untill Blizz gave us new details. With every new details Blizz gives us, we have to change our gennarally accepted conclusions and opinions.
for example,
1) There were a times when we mistakenly thought that angels are kind and liberal guys. 2) When we was playing Diablo I, we was sure that the Soulstones of Mefisto and Baal were burried under the sands of eastern deserts (Book I: of Heaven and Hell) untill Diablo II was released. Now, according to the same timeline, Mefisto was burried in the jungle of Kehjistan soon after he was defeated in the Kehjistan. 3) When we was playing Diablo II, we was sure that the Worldstone was a protection of Sanctuary without knowing what kind of protection is this untill Sin War Trilogy was published. We was making wrong conclusions about the protection of the Worldstone. But now we know, the Worldstone was a manner to make nephalem to bereft of their power in order to prevent Lilith's intentions (she was so interested in human's power), later, also the plots of the Prime Evils and Lucion. Only thanks to this Trylogy we know that there was a link between Inarius and the Worldstone which give him a power, allowed him somehow to rule Sanctuary - thanks to it we may guess that in fact Baal have intention to link himself with the Worldstone in order to rule Sanctuary as Inarius did it many centuries ago.
According to this trylogy we know that
"The Balance is the even distribution of Light and Dark. Its essence is most significant to Sanctuary, but it goes beyond, to all of creation. A world where Dark rules would burn itself up. A world where Light commands would eventually stagnate. If either gained enough control of Sanctuary so that the other could not match it again, then that would be the end of all things…"
Which means that THE HUMANITY IS REALY AN ABOMINATION OF ALL CREATION, THE UNIT, WHICH CAN BE A REASON OF THE END OF ALL THINGS BECAUSE ONLY HUMANITY CAN ALLOW ONE OF THE SIDES TO TAKE THE CONTROL OF ALL.
So the Worldstone was just a manner which prevented a humanity from a great responcibility which come with a great power.
I can write many examples like these but I'm not sure that you will read it all to the end.
Marius was tentacle-raped to death by Baal.
End.
I'm glad that you like my avatar.
1) Diablo's fear was a clue which allowed Inarius to recognize him and understand that he faced Lord of Terror himself. Can you disprove that?
2) Diablo can rule the fear (so, he can turn it off) Can you disprove that?
3)Diablo are able to turn his "fearing aura" off when he faced Tyrael. Can you disprove that?
These all facts can't prevent her from being a Raven - seer, who foretelling bad prophecy. YOu yourself know that Hero of Tristram have dreams, visions and cried out during his sleeping, and he mentioning about strange things that a simple people couldn't understand. She also could did the same. AGAIN, her being a seer is not a foundation of my theory. I can even decline it if I want. But Marius's being a looser, who couldn't use his gift, is a foundation of my theory.
And his words confirm that
1) There is no reason for Diablo to have intention to make Marius know about him and warn him of the horrors that were in store for him in future, even if he have chosen Marius as his victum and a weapon. It'd better for Diablo keep Marius in ignorance.
(It concerns that vision about Tal Rasha's binding.)
2) There is no reason for Diablo to have intention to tell the mortal that he searching for a demon in order to set loose him upon the world. A hero, who couldn't make differ between his own thought and demon's, make more sense.
3) Marius saw his nightmares before they passed the Estern Gate.
4) The Evil have claimed Rogue Monastery after the Wanderer passed the Eastern Gate (Warrive's words).
5) So Marius saw his "memories" of Rogue Monastery before the Evil claimed it.
1) Rogue Monastery is a residence of a female Rogue, not male. (there is no male Rogue)
2) Marius is a male
3) Marius have no right to be in Rogue Monastery and so he could't witness its coruption.
This is what my theory don't contradict.