So, even if Cain had been 380 years old, he still would not have been alive during it. I would like to know his age, though, since it's relevant to another thread I'm discussing in... I'm going to see what I can find, I guess.
You say that it would have been better for it to be corrupted, but for who? You say Evil, but the lesser evils that reigned in Hell were not on good terms with the Prime Evils. So Baal's death was necessary for both of the two remaining lesser evils. I suppose the Worldstone's destruction wasn't desireable, but this was more Tyrael than the Hero, and so this may be one of the only things Cain didn't have control over. There is room for debate on this point.
Your third point is that the Hero had no choice but to pursue the demons, but they had no means to do so without Cain's guidance. And so when they became dependent on Cain, he had the ability to control the outcome.
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Why can't a heterosexual guy tell a heterosexual guy that he thinks his booty is fly?
1. makes sense considering he claims to be the last one. But he is a descendent of Jared cain who imprisoned Diablo in the soulstone
2. It is better for evil to have the world stone corrupt then to have it destroyed, therefore cain would not want tyrael to destroy it.
3. But the evils were terrorizing everybody, If the hero didn't kill them they would have ruled sanctuary, the hero had no choice but to persue.
What "evil" is having the World Stone corrupt better for? Mind you, the official story is that the Lesser evils Azomdan and Belial wanted to fight Heaven directly, whereas the Prime Evils wished to corrupt man...thus the Primes exile (the unoffiicial story being that the Primes wished to be Exiled to work more directly with man). Then again, we haven't the slightest clue, exactly, what all a corrupt and/or broken Worldstone even does.
All of this relates to the Evils and Angels, so they are relevant to the discussion.
And all of your info is understood to have been stated, but the question is by who and if this is reliable enough to discount the idea that Cain is not who he says he is. If I was taking all the info presented as fact there would be no argument. It is just that most of that information is not "history" but rather Cain's story that he recants.
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Why can't a heterosexual guy tell a heterosexual guy that he thinks his booty is fly?
All of this relates to the Evils and Angels, so they are relevant to the discussion.
And all of your info is understood to have been stated, but the question is by who and if this is reliable enough to discount the idea that Cain is not who he says he is. If I was taking all the info presented as fact there would be no argument. It is just that most of that information is not "history" but rather Cain's story that he recants.
Exactly. And my point was The Lord of Lies would, intrinsically, be extraodinarily effective at...lying...either TO Cain, THROUGH Cain, or AS Cain...
I never really thought of it like that here are a few facts that might support this idea.
1.Decard Cain was always being captured in locked up in Tristam but the monsters never really attacked him.
2.The Heroes would always show up just in time to save cain which might be true or just a coincidence.
3.Cain is living longer than any of the other character's meaning he may be the host for some big immortal demon (same thing Diablo,Lord of Terror does to get back into the mortal world).
4.Decard Cain is the last of the Horadrim which is a bit fishy because he never really fought and all the other Horadrim ended up dieing by continously fighting the prime evils,Does this mean that cain ordered the three bothers to let him live?
There are also these facts that utterly break this idea.
1.Maruis the guy that traveled with Diablo (The Dark wanderer) in D2 was ordered to destory the soulstones by Tyreal and some of the Horadrim (None of which where Cain) and Cain was never involved in any of that plot.
2.If Cain was the cuase of all these problems why would Mephisto,Diablo,and Baal's minons still be targeting him as a threat unless they are just following Cains order's to make the plot seem good.
3.Decard Cain did in fact suggest the idea of destorying the Worldstone to Tyreal but Tyreal himself made the decision to destory it not Cain
I never really thought of it like that here are a few facts that might support this idea.
1.Decard Cain was always being captured in locked up in Tristam but the monsters never really attacked him.
Cain was only holed up in a cage once in Tristram. The second time he is not imprisoned, he is with a group of other men that are doing something in the bowels of the Cathedral.
The reason the demons never kill him is probably because, being the last of the Horadrim, he has indispensable knowledge that the forces of Hell could use against Heaven.
2.The Heroes would always show up just in time to save cain which might be true or just a coincidence.
Standard storyline mechanics. Mind you in the first one you arrive and he's pretty much just left alone in his cage. In the second one, there's actually a group of NPC's with him.
3.Cain is living longer than any of the other character's meaning he may be the host for some big immortal demon (same thing Diablo,Lord of Terror does to get back into the mortal world).
He is a Horadrim and a Vizjeri mage (or maybe it was Taan mage?), and as such, he may well have magic that prolongs his life.
4.Decard Cain is the last of the Horadrim which is a bit fishy because he never really fought and all the other Horadrim ended up dieing by continously fighting the prime evils,Does this mean that cain ordered the three bothers to let him live?
There was a large group of Horadrim that fought the Prime Evils and imprisoned them in their stones, that is true. It was not said that they all died doing so, however. It is also never stated if Cain did or did not fight with those Horadrim or was even alive at the time. He was a Horadrim as a child, which you can read in his journal at diablo3.com.
There are also these facts that utterly break this idea.
1.Maruis the guy that traveled with Diablo (The Dark wanderer) in D2 was ordered to destory the soulstones by Tyreal and some of the Horadrim (None of which where Cain) and Cain was never involved in any of that plot.
Marius only ever had possession of Baal's soulstone. He was ordered to destroy it by Tyrael, though. In that aspect you are spot on. However, there were no Horadrim alive at the time those events transpired. The Wanderer is the hero from Diablo I, and Cain was still the only Horadrim in Diablo I. There were never any other humans with Marius in any of the cinematics- only the Prime Evils, the Wanderer (who was possessed by a Prime Evil- Diablo), and Tyrael.
2.If Cain was the cuase of all these problems why would Mephisto,Diablo,and Baal's minons still be targeting him as a threat unless they are just following Cains order's to make the plot seem good.
If you are going that route (that Cain is the mastermind of everything), then you're right about this, unless Cain is indeed Belial in disguise and was fooling everyone from the start, including the Prime Evils, who died at the hand of the heros at the advice of Deckard Cain.
3.Decard Cain did in fact suggest the idea of destorying the Worldstone to Tyreal but Tyreal himself made the decision to destory it not Cain
Cain never suggested to Tyrael that the Worldstone be destroyed. If you can get a credible quote, I'll believe you.
Alright I think that I should consolidate all of my thoughts now as to how the story should go IMO-
Sorry, it is most likely TL;DR but for those interested enough in my theory, that is the whole thing.
Belial, the Lord of Lies, has been locked in a civil war with Azmodan, the second lesser evil known as the Lord of Sin. This struggle has been going on for essentially a millenia without either side gaining much ground on the other. With the awakening of Diablo in what we know as Diablo I, Belial realizes that he has a chance to open up Hell on Earth and destroy his brethern whose soul stones all reside in the mortal realm. So he disguises himself as the mortal Cain in order to guide a mortal hero to destroy Diablo. This plan succeeds but the weak human cannot contain the beast in his own body as he believed and Diablo begins to amass power, and attempts to free his brothers so they can rampage through Sanctuary and create their own dominion. Belial, still mascarding as Cain, finds more mortals to follow after Diablo and destroy the Evils left in Sanctuary. These mortals are easily swaded because they fight for their dominion, however they do not know the role they are playing in their own downfall. Things become complicated when the archangel Tyrael intervenes on the side of the mortals, however Cain finds his intentions to coincide with his and finds no threat, and so lets Tyrael hold the reigns in defeating Diablo and Baal. However, Cain did not anticipate the destruction of the Worldstone. Now, taking off where D2 left off, Cain will persuade a new generation of heroes to fend off demonic invasion and slay Azmodan. The mortals go along with the plan, as does Tyrael, unaware that the order the Evils are slane will judge the outcome of their world. When Azmodan is slain, the armies of Hell will be united under Belial's rule, and will be waged on Sanctuary, and the High Heavens. Needing to command the minions from Hell, Belial will destroy his identity of Cain by having a camp where he is staying overrun (the first event told to the hero when he proceeds an act; think of defeating a boss, going onto the next act and the first dialogue or possibily the cinametic inbetween telling the tale) with countless demons. He will be supposed dead, but will have taken a foothold in the depths of Hell. The angels of Heaven will wage war on the Burning Hell and will inlist the aid of the mortals, whereas previously only Tyrael had ventured to mortals for help. They will battle the demons back into Hell, slaying many and possibly encountering new incarnations of evils that escaped the Abyss before encountering Cain, in human form at the core of Hell. He will once again decieve the Hero, convincing him the evil lurks deeper in the Hellfire, and will wait until the mortal is so deep into the demonic horde that there will presumably be no escape. He will then take on his true form as the Lord of Lies and our hero will be forced to slay his most trusted ally.
EDIT: I realize the Starcraft feel that the D3 storyline has going, but it worked for SC in the form of Jim and Kerrigan, why not the hero and Cain? Plus it will be less complicated without the sexual tension I imagine.
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Why can't a heterosexual guy tell a heterosexual guy that he thinks his booty is fly?
which leads into Blizzards 4th project, the Diablo MMO where you choose the side of Hell or Heaven and battle on the mortal plain alongside demons or angels in a search for this equilibreum.
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Why can't a heterosexual guy tell a heterosexual guy that he thinks his booty is fly?
I like the idea of this twist because Cain is in the perfect position to betray everyone,on the other hand Deckard Cain has always really helped everyone though the tough Times and I would really hate to see him turn evil so quickly.
There are sooo many cool ideas for a Diablo storyline floating around these forums, I'm sure someone has nailed it by now. I especially liked one about the cultists summoning Diablo through the Worldstone's rift. I'll think of a way to incorporate that into my story. Possibily something that is happening on the side while we all go after the Lord of Sin.
EDIT: Lord of SIN, not Lies
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Why can't a heterosexual guy tell a heterosexual guy that he thinks his booty is fly?
I like the idea of this twist because Cain is in the perfect position to betray everyone,on the other hand Deckard Cain has always really helped everyone though the tough Times and I would really hate to see him turn evil so quickly.
Yes, I would definitely agree he's in the perfect situation to do so. I just see it as overkill, though, since betrayal is such an abused theme in the Diablo game lore.
I especially liked one about the cultists summoning Diablo through the Worldstone's rift.
I can't believe I hadn't heard of that yet- it sounds really interesting. I always liked the cultist in RPG games (especially the Necromancer cult in Oblivion )
but its so perfect! Cain being the Lord of Lies?!?! come on, that would be intense.
The one issue I'm having with it though is that if Diablo is in the game, I don't think Belial could be the masterminding fiend that I'd love for him to be. There's just no way that a lesser evil could outplay a prime evil, leaving lore out of it. It's one thing for Baal, another prime evil to outlive Diablo, but I don't see Belial being the last boss if Diablo makes a return.
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Why can't a heterosexual guy tell a heterosexual guy that he thinks his booty is fly?
thats what im saying too, CAIN is shady as shit lmaooooo like he knows ALOT hes a horadrim but yo... he coulda been corrupted this entire time. you tell me why THEY DIDNT KILL HIM IN TRISTRAM SO QUICK they just watched him in a cage till the heroes rescued him.
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So, even if Cain had been 380 years old, he still would not have been alive during it. I would like to know his age, though, since it's relevant to another thread I'm discussing in... I'm going to see what I can find, I guess.
Your third point is that the Hero had no choice but to pursue the demons, but they had no means to do so without Cain's guidance. And so when they became dependent on Cain, he had the ability to control the outcome.
What "evil" is having the World Stone corrupt better for? Mind you, the official story is that the Lesser evils Azomdan and Belial wanted to fight Heaven directly, whereas the Prime Evils wished to corrupt man...thus the Primes exile (the unoffiicial story being that the Primes wished to be Exiled to work more directly with man). Then again, we haven't the slightest clue, exactly, what all a corrupt and/or broken Worldstone even does.
And, we are talking about cain not lesser or prime evils.....
Cain was the descendent from Jared cain who trapped Diablo in the soulstone.
The hero put the soulstone in his head by his choice not cains.
And all of your info is understood to have been stated, but the question is by who and if this is reliable enough to discount the idea that Cain is not who he says he is. If I was taking all the info presented as fact there would be no argument. It is just that most of that information is not "history" but rather Cain's story that he recants.
Exactly. And my point was The Lord of Lies would, intrinsically, be extraodinarily effective at...lying...either TO Cain, THROUGH Cain, or AS Cain...
I agree that Cain is Belial.
He may not HAVE been a bad guy. But in the 20 years between D2 and 3 he's either be killed and replaced or is possessed by Belial.
1.Decard Cain was always being captured in locked up in Tristam but the monsters never really attacked him.
2.The Heroes would always show up just in time to save cain which might be true or just a coincidence.
3.Cain is living longer than any of the other character's meaning he may be the host for some big immortal demon (same thing Diablo,Lord of Terror does to get back into the mortal world).
4.Decard Cain is the last of the Horadrim which is a bit fishy because he never really fought and all the other Horadrim ended up dieing by continously fighting the prime evils,Does this mean that cain ordered the three bothers to let him live?
There are also these facts that utterly break this idea.
1.Maruis the guy that traveled with Diablo (The Dark wanderer) in D2 was ordered to destory the soulstones by Tyreal and some of the Horadrim (None of which where Cain) and Cain was never involved in any of that plot.
2.If Cain was the cuase of all these problems why would Mephisto,Diablo,and Baal's minons still be targeting him as a threat unless they are just following Cains order's to make the plot seem good.
3.Decard Cain did in fact suggest the idea of destorying the Worldstone to Tyreal but Tyreal himself made the decision to destory it not Cain
The reason the demons never kill him is probably because, being the last of the Horadrim, he has indispensable knowledge that the forces of Hell could use against Heaven.
Standard storyline mechanics. Mind you in the first one you arrive and he's pretty much just left alone in his cage. In the second one, there's actually a group of NPC's with him.
He is a Horadrim and a Vizjeri mage (or maybe it was Taan mage?), and as such, he may well have magic that prolongs his life.
There was a large group of Horadrim that fought the Prime Evils and imprisoned them in their stones, that is true. It was not said that they all died doing so, however. It is also never stated if Cain did or did not fight with those Horadrim or was even alive at the time. He was a Horadrim as a child, which you can read in his journal at diablo3.com.
Marius only ever had possession of Baal's soulstone. He was ordered to destroy it by Tyrael, though. In that aspect you are spot on. However, there were no Horadrim alive at the time those events transpired. The Wanderer is the hero from Diablo I, and Cain was still the only Horadrim in Diablo I. There were never any other humans with Marius in any of the cinematics- only the Prime Evils, the Wanderer (who was possessed by a Prime Evil- Diablo), and Tyrael.
If you are going that route (that Cain is the mastermind of everything), then you're right about this, unless Cain is indeed Belial in disguise and was fooling everyone from the start, including the Prime Evils, who died at the hand of the heros at the advice of Deckard Cain.
Cain never suggested to Tyrael that the Worldstone be destroyed. If you can get a credible quote, I'll believe you.
Sorry, it is most likely TL;DR but for those interested enough in my theory, that is the whole thing.
Belial, the Lord of Lies, has been locked in a civil war with Azmodan, the second lesser evil known as the Lord of Sin. This struggle has been going on for essentially a millenia without either side gaining much ground on the other. With the awakening of Diablo in what we know as Diablo I, Belial realizes that he has a chance to open up Hell on Earth and destroy his brethern whose soul stones all reside in the mortal realm. So he disguises himself as the mortal Cain in order to guide a mortal hero to destroy Diablo. This plan succeeds but the weak human cannot contain the beast in his own body as he believed and Diablo begins to amass power, and attempts to free his brothers so they can rampage through Sanctuary and create their own dominion. Belial, still mascarding as Cain, finds more mortals to follow after Diablo and destroy the Evils left in Sanctuary. These mortals are easily swaded because they fight for their dominion, however they do not know the role they are playing in their own downfall. Things become complicated when the archangel Tyrael intervenes on the side of the mortals, however Cain finds his intentions to coincide with his and finds no threat, and so lets Tyrael hold the reigns in defeating Diablo and Baal. However, Cain did not anticipate the destruction of the Worldstone. Now, taking off where D2 left off, Cain will persuade a new generation of heroes to fend off demonic invasion and slay Azmodan. The mortals go along with the plan, as does Tyrael, unaware that the order the Evils are slane will judge the outcome of their world. When Azmodan is slain, the armies of Hell will be united under Belial's rule, and will be waged on Sanctuary, and the High Heavens. Needing to command the minions from Hell, Belial will destroy his identity of Cain by having a camp where he is staying overrun (the first event told to the hero when he proceeds an act; think of defeating a boss, going onto the next act and the first dialogue or possibily the cinametic inbetween telling the tale) with countless demons. He will be supposed dead, but will have taken a foothold in the depths of Hell. The angels of Heaven will wage war on the Burning Hell and will inlist the aid of the mortals, whereas previously only Tyrael had ventured to mortals for help. They will battle the demons back into Hell, slaying many and possibly encountering new incarnations of evils that escaped the Abyss before encountering Cain, in human form at the core of Hell. He will once again decieve the Hero, convincing him the evil lurks deeper in the Hellfire, and will wait until the mortal is so deep into the demonic horde that there will presumably be no escape. He will then take on his true form as the Lord of Lies and our hero will be forced to slay his most trusted ally.
EDIT: I realize the Starcraft feel that the D3 storyline has going, but it worked for SC in the form of Jim and Kerrigan, why not the hero and Cain? Plus it will be less complicated without the sexual tension I imagine.
which leads into Blizzards 4th project, the Diablo MMO where you choose the side of Hell or Heaven and battle on the mortal plain alongside demons or angels in a search for this equilibreum.
I like the idea of this twist because Cain is in the perfect position to betray everyone,on the other hand Deckard Cain has always really helped everyone though the tough Times and I would really hate to see him turn evil so quickly.
There are sooo many cool ideas for a Diablo storyline floating around these forums, I'm sure someone has nailed it by now. I especially liked one about the cultists summoning Diablo through the Worldstone's rift. I'll think of a way to incorporate that into my story. Possibily something that is happening on the side while we all go after the Lord of Sin.
EDIT: Lord of SIN, not Lies
Yes, I would definitely agree he's in the perfect situation to do so. I just see it as overkill, though, since betrayal is such an abused theme in the Diablo game lore.
I can't believe I hadn't heard of that yet- it sounds really interesting. I always liked the cultist in RPG games (especially the Necromancer cult in Oblivion )
The one issue I'm having with it though is that if Diablo is in the game, I don't think Belial could be the masterminding fiend that I'd love for him to be. There's just no way that a lesser evil could outplay a prime evil, leaving lore out of it. It's one thing for Baal, another prime evil to outlive Diablo, but I don't see Belial being the last boss if Diablo makes a return.