PvP should get more love

  • #41
    Quote from harleq01

    Quote from Leeodin

    Quote from harleq01

    ~snip~

    ~snip~

    1-3. Read my post(s) again but with critical thinking. And the last bit in #3 where you said "Blizz wants people to see all the content they make," would make a good argument if Blizz was the middle man only responsible for selling and distributing. But because Blizz is the one who created the content, they can make pve as much or as little as possible. You and a horde of others seem to have this misconception that having more focus on PvP takes it out on PvE content. Blizz is the creator of the game. Why can't I beg them to have both facets in the spotlight? Why are you trying to keep pvp in the dark? Yes pvp balance does affect pve because of skill/item adjustments. But Blizz is the creator. If they make a barbarian's attack 2 times stronger for pvp balance, they can make pve harder for barbs if they want. How does it really affect PvERs?

    4. Matter of opinion. To me any pvp in d2 was a huge plus. In my past posts I was merely educating the other people that if they think softcore dueling/ganking was the only pvp going on, then they are mistaken.


    You're missing a critical factor in the whole argument. That is, Blizzard doesn't have infinite resources and time, development takes both. In order for them to implement eSport level balance, they would essentially need and entire team just to tune abilities and alter them for PvP specifically. These alterations would put off the majority of casual players as their abilities now work differently. Since those casual players make up the majority of their players, they would essentially be shifting development resources for little to no gain.

    The casual PvP approach allows them to keep from having obligations to balance the game for eSport, allowing them to focus on the majority of their players and add additional PvE content as well as awesome casual PvP content. Its not like they aren't doing PvP, in fact they said they will be focusing a lot of development resources towards PvP after launch. They just aren't going to add many eSport features because it would create an environment where people expect them to balance it for eSports. This doesn't mean PvP won't be fun, it just means it won't be perfectly balanced, have ranking, etc.
    Quote from GladHeHasBeta

    ecutruin +9000
  • #42
    aside from having an entire team devoted to finetuning abilities, they would also need a huge ass cray super computer to calculate through a couple of quadrillion posibilities (builds x gear).

    In other words, complete and utter balance is impossible.
  • #43
    Quote from harleq01
    4. [...] To me any pvp in d2 was a huge plus. In my past posts I was merely educating the other people that if they think softcore dueling/ganking was the only pvp going on, then they are mistaken.


    Well there's no point in force education on a topic many (95%) think is trivial to the game.

    Quote from harleq01
    There's about 4-5 posts above me that clearly do not understand what I'm trying to say and should maybe read it out loud so that it would be easier to you all. [...] I'm trying to say that PvP should have a big focus, maybe not the majority of the focuz, but at least big enough so that it can reach mainstream gaming community for it's PvP. The reason is (and this is where you dyslexics don't understand) D3 will be one of those games where it's only able to survive because of expansions kind of like how WoW right now [...]


    First of all, I'd like you to understand that pointing fingers about dyslexia because 4-5 don't understand you usually means that you yourself have to be clear about what you're saying. If 4-5 people don't understand you, try to be a bit more critical of your own explanation.

    Either we all are dyslexic (doubtful) or you're simply not getting your point across as clear as you would think.

    Why can't you just accept that Diablo is first and foremost an action RPG with PvE in focus. Whatever PvP gets tossed into the mix we're all happy for, but let the franchise be true to its roots and what it became because of that. There is no argument to convince anyone that PvP was the true reason Diablo got to where it is today. Maybe you're deluded by how fun you had.

    I remember when I was running around an Unreal Tournament map offline alone and translocating randomly to find weird escape routes for sticky situations. Now would you agree if I said UT needed more offline elements because I had fun doing it?
  • #44
    Quote from FreddyBenson

    ok i know this is wow

    but i do love this clip, brings me back to my lvl 30 pyro days

    again i know this is wow :)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qMpIYGaJzM



    My eyes! they Burn!!!!!! :QQ:
  • #45
    What's the point of this thread ? Last time I checked, there will be PvP in D3... just not at the very launch...
  • #46
    Quote from Gryzorz

    What's the point of this thread ? Last time I checked, there will be PvP in D3... just not at the very launch...

    Getting PvP more love? :)

    We haven't heard anything about PvP's possibilities (custom matches between friends, min and max number of players, wager matches, a duel mode with others watching or anything in terms of different modes for PvP), which is probably why people are concerned about this (add to it the fact that even with very few features, we're not seeing PvP at launch and it took them a looooong time to add features to SC2 and you get the feeling).
  • #47
    Why do people assume that some people hate PVP just because they don't want it to be turned into an eSport?

    I played the WoW arenas in a high competitive level, but at the end of the day i enjoyed the world pvp that was before the arenas more, just because some of us prefer a less serious approach to PVP doesn't mean we "hate PVP".
  • #48
    Quote from harleq01

    To all the players of Diablo who say "Diablo has always been about the pve" - You don't know squat. It's true. Just because you're in your isolated Diablo 2 LOD private games farming meph/baal/pindle all day long doesn't make it a pve game...it just makes you ignorant for thinking that. When I played diablo 2, I played hardcore mode. Yes I grinded gear, but I grinded gear so that I can have duels IN HARDCORE MODE. I'm not making that statement because I'm saying "LOL I"M BETTER THAN YOU". I'm saying that because there was a dimension to the game that 95% of the players don't know about (most are scared to try hc...seriously)

    When the rest of Diablo 2 was plagued with duped items, speed hacks, ebayed accounts, ebayed items, hardcore was not, and there were plenty of pvp going around. If you're still not convinced, at least look at the ladder system of Diablo. When the new seasons of the ladder opened up, players were playing non-stop trying to level and grind through the same pve contents over and over...not just because they liked pve (a lot didn't) but because they wanted to beat other players in the ladder for top level spots. Guess what, that is pvp. If you have never been into the competitive gaming scene, you just simply wouldn't understand. And even though the pvpers might be a minority, pvpers' passion will never lose to those into pve. And as I have said in my other post, it's the passion that keeps the game alive.

    note: also see counterstrike 1.6. If you didn't like 1.6, you probably sucked or didn't play it competitively...just saying


    All the proof I need to state that Diablo 2 was 100% about PvM and not PvP is go back and look at the notes for every single patch and find a single one that had PvP improvements and not just bug fixes. Show me where they added massive things to the game for the sake of improving PvP.
  • #49
    Quote from SuburbanNoize767

    Quote from harleq01

    To all the players of Diablo who say "Diablo has always been about the pve" - You don't know squat. It's true. Just because you're in your isolated Diablo 2 LOD private games farming meph/baal/pindle all day long doesn't make it a pve game...it just makes you ignorant for thinking that. When I played diablo 2, I played hardcore mode. Yes I grinded gear, but I grinded gear so that I can have duels IN HARDCORE MODE. I'm not making that statement because I'm saying "LOL I"M BETTER THAN YOU". I'm saying that because there was a dimension to the game that 95% of the players don't know about (most are scared to try hc...seriously)

    When the rest of Diablo 2 was plagued with duped items, speed hacks, ebayed accounts, ebayed items, hardcore was not, and there were plenty of pvp going around. If you're still not convinced, at least look at the ladder system of Diablo. When the new seasons of the ladder opened up, players were playing non-stop trying to level and grind through the same pve contents over and over...not just because they liked pve (a lot didn't) but because they wanted to beat other players in the ladder for top level spots. Guess what, that is pvp. If you have never been into the competitive gaming scene, you just simply wouldn't understand. And even though the pvpers might be a minority, pvpers' passion will never lose to those into pve. And as I have said in my other post, it's the passion that keeps the game alive.

    note: also see counterstrike 1.6. If you didn't like 1.6, you probably sucked or didn't play it competitively...just saying


    All the proof I need to state that Diablo 2 was 100% about PvM and not PvP is go back and look at the notes for every single patch and find a single one that had PvP improvements and not just bug fixes. Show me where they added massive things to the game for the sake of improving PvP.

    Patches in Diablo 2 didn't do jack but add some items, and fix some glitches and bugs. They didn't add anything for PvM other then the Uber mode which was a pathetic update in itself to try and garner for attention for the franchise to take away from competitors. Notice they patched the game same week Guild Wars came out? Ha.
  • #50
    Quote from Adon

    Quote from SuburbanNoize767

    Quote from harleq01

    To all the players of Diablo who say "Diablo has always been about the pve" - You don't know squat. It's true. Just because you're in your isolated Diablo 2 LOD private games farming meph/baal/pindle all day long doesn't make it a pve game...it just makes you ignorant for thinking that. When I played diablo 2, I played hardcore mode. Yes I grinded gear, but I grinded gear so that I can have duels IN HARDCORE MODE. I'm not making that statement because I'm saying "LOL I"M BETTER THAN YOU". I'm saying that because there was a dimension to the game that 95% of the players don't know about (most are scared to try hc...seriously)

    When the rest of Diablo 2 was plagued with duped items, speed hacks, ebayed accounts, ebayed items, hardcore was not, and there were plenty of pvp going around. If you're still not convinced, at least look at the ladder system of Diablo. When the new seasons of the ladder opened up, players were playing non-stop trying to level and grind through the same pve contents over and over...not just because they liked pve (a lot didn't) but because they wanted to beat other players in the ladder for top level spots. Guess what, that is pvp. If you have never been into the competitive gaming scene, you just simply wouldn't understand. And even though the pvpers might be a minority, pvpers' passion will never lose to those into pve. And as I have said in my other post, it's the passion that keeps the game alive.

    note: also see counterstrike 1.6. If you didn't like 1.6, you probably sucked or didn't play it competitively...just saying


    All the proof I need to state that Diablo 2 was 100% about PvM and not PvP is go back and look at the notes for every single patch and find a single one that had PvP improvements and not just bug fixes. Show me where they added massive things to the game for the sake of improving PvP.

    Patches in Diablo 2 didn't do jack but add some items, and fix some glitches and bugs. They didn't add anything for PvM other then the Uber mode which was a pathetic update in itself to try and garner for attention for the franchise to take away from competitors. Notice they patched the game same week Guild Wars came out? Ha.


    I agree that the patches were pathetic but that is because Blizzard North was closed and Blizzard didn't support it like they should have. Only real "content" added was D-Clone and Ubers but my point is that if you go back and look at all the patch notes that are hardly any changes at all that applied to PvP. Just goes to show that when they did turn out content like d-clone and ubers where the game focus is....PvM
  • #51
    I still wonder how people found out X% of the player database of Diablo 2 from 2000 to 2012 focused on PvP or PvE in endgame.
  • #52
    what genre is this game "Diablo" everyone is talking about?
    oh, its a hack and slash rpg, also called a dungeon crawler.
    thats not arena crawler, thats dungeon crawler.
    thats pve.
    as a mini-game included, you can fight in an arena. wee.

    what is this device called a "Nokia" everyone is talking about?
    oh, its a cell phone, meant to make calls to other people.
    thats not portable game system, thats a cell phone.
    its for calling people.
    as a mini-game included, you can play snake. wee.
  • #53
    Quote from fromage2323

    what genre is this game "Diablo" everyone is talking about?
    oh, its a hack and slash rpg, also called a dungeon crawler.
    thats not arena crawler, thats dungeon crawler.
    thats pve.
    as a mini-game included, you can fight in an arena. wee.

    what is this device called a "Nokia" everyone is talking about?
    oh, its a cell phone, meant to make calls to other people.
    thats not portable game system, thats a cell phone.
    its for calling people.
    as a mini-game included, you can play snake. wee.


    lol thats so pro
  • #54
    Quote from fromage2323

    what genre is this game "Diablo" everyone is talking about?
    oh, its a hack and slash rpg, also called a dungeon crawler.
    thats not arena crawler, thats dungeon crawler.
    thats pve.
    as a mini-game included, you can fight in an arena. wee.

    what is this device called a "Nokia" everyone is talking about?
    oh, its a cell phone, meant to make calls to other people.
    thats not portable game system, thats a cell phone.
    its for calling people.
    as a mini-game included, you can play snake. wee.

    What is this device called a hammer everyone is talking about?
    Oh, its a tool, meant to help make life easier by smashing nails, ect in.
    That is not a killing device, or a weapon, that is a tool used to make life easier.
    As a mini game...you can pry nails out with its backend
    Wait...you mean I can kill you with this said tool? NO WAI!?

    I can spew blind ignorant stuff too. Game is PvE based yes, that is not the question. The question is: Is there a right and a wrong way to play? You play differently then me, who is wrong? Answer is no one.
  • #55
    The problem is that PvP and PvE don't play well together. It is best to focus on one of these areas. Trying to do PvP and PvE will be fail until AI's are human-like.
  • #57
    Quote from harleq01

    To be honest I don't understand why people hate on pvp so much. Too hard to play against players as opposed to AI?


    That's all I read...

    Why not try something constructive instead of adding your faces to the pile? : )

    -Alamar
  • #58
    Quote from AlamarCurse



    That's all I read...



    Why not try something constructive instead of being a smart a**? : ) Here let me hold your hand.

    My name is _______ and I think pvp is/should _________________.

    -Harleq
  • #59
    So D3 pvp'ers gets an entire arena where they can jump around and spank each others ass' .. aint that love enough? .. I mean, if you like pvp, then go play pvp, if you don't like it, stay away, simple.. As for balance on pvp vs pve, the reason they added the arena was so they could balance/change skills in PvP without hurting/nerfing a skill in PvE .. So all in all, good for both sides..
    Main focus is on PvE, yet they still do stuff for the PvP people, so I don't really see what the problem is..
    If you want a game where pvp is the main focus then play one of those hundreds of games where pvp and esport is the main focus, OR make your own league with a certain set of rules and see if YOU (you as anybody ;p no one specific) can make it into an esport .. People did it with CS with modding, they did it with quake, tribes, CoD and many others ... These games started turning into Esport material coz the comunity started a league with prices etc .. :)
  • #60
    Quote from NullerGnuen

    So D3 pvp'ers gets an entire arena where they can jump around and spank each others ass' .. aint that love enough? .. I mean, if you like pvp, then go play pvp, if you don't like it, stay away, simple.. As for balance on pvp vs pve, the reason they added the arena was so they could balance/change skills in PvP without hurting/nerfing a skill in PvE .. So all in all, good for both sides..
    Main focus is on PvE, yet they still do stuff for the PvP people, so I don't really see what the problem is..
    If you want a game where pvp is the main focus then play one of those hundreds of games where pvp and esport is the main focus, OR make your own league with a certain set of rules and see if YOU (you as anybody ;p no one specific) can make it into an esport .. People did it with CS with modding, they did it with quake, tribes, CoD and many others ... These games started turning into Esport material coz the comunity started a league with prices etc .. :)


    I never said the current pvp features in d3 was inadequate. In fact if you read some of my other posts, I was even satisfied with d2 pvp (I know, it's so hard to read). I wanted to know why PvEers hate PvP and subsequently I would make arguments on why pvp should get the love. Hence the title of the thread.
  • #61
    Actually, I pre-ordered the game only because of the PvP. I really like the PvE as well, however, just after I obtain the items needed I will start playing mainly PvP with some friends. I sincerely believe that this will be really good PvP game after a while and I do not care about people who say:

    - PvE > PvP (it is interesting how you impose your point of view to everyone else, in my opinion is the opposite and many others will say the same)
    - This IS not a PvP game, if you want pvp play counter strike (this is one of my favorites, its so stupid)
    - Nobody cares about PvP (Jesus, everywhere I go I see posts about PvP, how the hell nobody cares?)

    I believe that the game could be balance around PvE and around PvP and I really do not see a problem about that. JW stated that they can change the stats in a spell in PvP and that will not affect PvE, so there should be absolutely no problem to balance them both (at least for the expansion).
    I have much more to say, but I have to go, pleas tell me if you agree with me
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