Hmm no? Only thing you and others have succeeded at doing when discussing D2 PvP is show how novice and how ignorant you are on the topic. Every complaint you had I gave a clear and valid reason why you felt it was a complaint and why in reality it shouldn't be and wasn't for any player with half a brain. We can do it all over again if you want, post all of those horrible mechanics and issues with D2 PvP or show me all of the imbalance and all of the garbage that it was and ill gladly prove you wrong on 9/10 of em.
Your experience with gaming and PvP seems to be centered around Diablo 2. Sorry, but the world moved on and Blizzard knows it. There is little point in me repeating myself only to have you spout nonsense based on your warped views on what makes games fun, because its not what makes playing fun for the majority of players that will be playing Diablo 3. Sorry, but you're just wrong.
Blizzard isn't a stupid company. They do market analysis and are even willing to delay games if they feel that the end result isn't up to par yet. They've been working on Diablo 3 for six years. You'd think that if your views actually represented ANY kind of majority, Blizzard would be implementing things differently. However, obviously Blizzard understands that catering to people that want the ability to harass other players for fun doesn't really benefit the community.
Go back to your precious Diablo 2 or actually realize that Diablo 3 isn't MEANT to be for someone like you. Its aimed at a new audience that has grown up on new games. Perhaps you'll enjoy it more if you stop comparing it to something you blindly dedicated 12~ years of your life to and looked at it for its own merits. Perhaps not...in which case you can just not buy it and continue blindly dedicating more of your life to Diablo 2. After all, they said they still intend on keeping it going for some time.
Lol I have already duked it out with Ecutruin on my own thread. It seams to me that we the PvP'ers just want have a fiendly talk with other PvP'ers. Then PvE'ers come in and start augments which are irrelevant and pointless. Most if them are just "No", "It will never be a competitive PvP","Jay Wilson says....","Why should we support the minorities?","It will never be an eSports". PvP is the end-game it has to be competitive, other wise what's the point? PvP will keep people consistantly playing on a day to day basis. I don't care what anyone tells me, PvP is essential for prolonging a games life and is not going to affect the PvE at all in Diablo 3. So I don't see why the PvE'ers see the need to argue at all.
I don't compare Diablo 3 to Diablo 2 or any other games. One, it's not even out yet, two it creates more pointless arguments. But in DIablo 2 the only reason I did Baal runs AT ALL was to level up and get better gear for PvP. Which is probably why there was so many Baal run games and trading games. If you already have gear good enough to kill Baal why do you need to keep getting better gear? It is because you want to be better than other players, not so you can kill Baal faster because I bet that almost nobody keeps time recordings then gets all happy when they beat their record. It is not fun doing the same thing over and over and over and over again only to have the good drops grabbed by someone else.
Hmm no? Only thing you and others have succeeded at doing when discussing D2 PvP is show how novice and how ignorant you are on the topic. Every complaint you had I gave a clear and valid reason why you felt it was a complaint and why in reality it shouldn't be and wasn't for any player with half a brain. We can do it all over again if you want, post all of those horrible mechanics and issues with D2 PvP or show me all of the imbalance and all of the garbage that it was and ill gladly prove you wrong on 9/10 of em.
Your experience with gaming and PvP seems to be centered around Diablo 2. Sorry, but the world moved on and Blizzard knows it. There is little point in me repeating myself only to have you spout nonsense based on your warped views on what makes games fun, because its not what makes playing fun for the majority of players that will be playing Diablo 3. Sorry, but you're just wrong.
Blizzard isn't a stupid company. They do market analysis and are even willing to delay games if they feel that the end result isn't up to par yet. They've been working on Diablo 3 for six years. You'd think that if your views actually represented ANY kind of majority, Blizzard would be implementing things differently. However, obviously Blizzard understands that catering to people that want the ability to harass other players for fun doesn't really benefit the community.
Go back to your precious Diablo 2 or actually realize that Diablo 3 isn't MEANT to be for someone like you. Its aimed at a new audience that has grown up on new games. Perhaps you'll enjoy it more if you stop comparing it to something you blindly dedicated 12~ years of your life to and looked at it for its own merits. Perhaps not...in which case you can just not buy it and continue blindly dedicating more of your life to Diablo 2. After all, they said they still intend on keeping it going for some time.
Yea never played Starcraft, never played Counter Strike, never went to national fighting game tournaments. Only ever played Diablo 2!
Again and still, what merits do you have as a PvP'er to come in here and tell us that Diablo 2 PvP was flawed and broken? Who are you to tell us what the majority of PvP'ers did in Diablo 2? You were there with me in the prime years apparently, so tell me how what you found out that I did not.
I love how all of you guys try and compare a played out and fleshed out full Diablo 2 in its twilight years, to Diablo 3 which is fresh and new. Compare vanilla D2 to D3 if you want to compare. Same shit applies to every mechanic D3 has.
Watch out adon it's big brother PvM coming to tell you what diablo is and how to play it. Diablo deserves darker pastures.
No, the developers tell you what the game is and how it should be played, and obviously they think PvP should be relegated to area battles, so there you go.
Watch out adon it's big brother PvM coming to tell you what diablo is and how to play it. Diablo deserves darker pastures.
No, the developers tell you what the game is and how it should be played, and obviously they think PvP should be relegated to area battles, so there you go.
Right cause the developers are always right. Just curious, what did I do for all of those years since obviously I didn't play the game correctly. I guess playing the game how you want and making it fun for you is unacceptable. BTW, Read my sig.
Good question, although it has little to do with anything. We are not discussing how the combat or anything will blow in comparison. We are discussing how the way to go about it, and the options we have to do it blow in comparison.
For the record, I have not played D3 PvP and none of my views would change by playing it. I am well aware that the style of combat is relatively the same and that does not worry me 1 bit. Team dueling, health globes, arena with no options bother me.
I have played Diablo 3 PvP and PvE when I went to last years Blizzcon. It was the single funniest thing I have ever done in gaming. Even watching other players face off in line. I most have been through that line about 20 times. It was fun, it played smooth and was very balanced (except for the Demon Hunter, but that was probably because I just sucked at her). Also the PvP line was always twice as long as the PvE line.
I have played Diablo 3 PvP and PvE when I went to last years Blizzcon. It was the single funniest thing I have ever done in gaming. Even watching other players face off in line. I most have been through that line about 20 times. It was fun, it played smooth and was very balanced (except for the Demon Hunter, but that was probably because I just sucked at her). Also the PvP line was always twice as long as the PvE line.
That's awesome to hear. I went to blizzcon in 09 I believe, they just announced the monk. I was so looking forward to some PvP but only got PvM. Asked a few of the reps there when they were gonna announce PvP and they just said no news. Was set to go to next years then had other plans come up and surely enough they announce PvP there ha.
On the survey I filled out after playing the demo and they asked what I was looking forward to most I answered PvP with out a doubt.
Good question, although it has little to do with anything. We are not discussing how the combat or anything will blow in comparison. We are discussing how the way to go about it, and the options we have to do it blow in comparison.
For the record, I have not played D3 PvP and none of my views would change by playing it. I am well aware that the style of combat is relatively the same and that does not worry me 1 bit. Team dueling, health globes, arena with no options bother me.
Maybe they'll add arena with a ton of options, maybe not. I agree though that a barebones arena would suck.
I don't really buy into all the arguments saying "blah blah blah, you're wrong, because Blizzard and the majority says so, durrr." But 3-6 months after PvP has been released, then we can have a more accurate pulse on what the majority really want for it, and whether or not Blizzard was right in their design choices.
As for my own conjectures, yeah, hostility and dueling may have a place in private games. Not in public though, because it just enable more avenues for griefing. That said, I don't think there is much chance of getting open world PvP implemented, as it makes Arena somewhat redundant. Time will tell.
Watch out adon it's big brother PvM coming to tell you what diablo is and how to play it. Diablo deserves darker pastures.
No, the developers tell you what the game is and how it should be played, and obviously they think PvP should be relegated to area battles, so there you go.
Right cause the developers are always right. Just curious, what did I do for all of those years since obviously I didn't play the game correctly. I guess playing the game how you want and making it fun for you is unacceptable. BTW, Read my sig.
Actually, yes, the developers are always right on what they believe is best for their game. The game they are creating. They are always right because they are the only ones who can be right about the decisions they make. They base them off of marketing, metrics, what sells in other games, what they loved about Diablo 2, etc. etc. They do NOT make decisions based on what Adon thinks. You need to understand that your type of self-entitlement has no place in the world.
And yes, PvP is essentially the end game for me (and I'm primarily a PvMer). I hunt items so that I can slay other players. But I don't need hostility to do that. I can enjoy that part of the game in Arenas and the designated PvP games. Why not fight other players who are there to fight you. It just makes sense.
The fact that D3 will never be "competitive" in an e-Sports sense is due to the fact that they have stated they will not be balancing skills around PvP. Hence, some classes will be unbalanced. CAN people try and make it into an e-Sport? Sure, why not? Will it be successful? I highly doubt it. Only time will tell though.
The fact is that (as it should be with WoW arenas) if you want competitive gaming, SC2/DotA/CS:GO(hopefully) are your choices. I don't see D3 being in that group. PvP will be fun though.
Ya I made a thread about it called "My PvP exsperiance" here in the PvP discussion forums. I discibed about everything i could on the thread. But of course people who call themselves PvE'ers (who have never played the game) came in and started arguing about it and all I said was how fun it was. I guess they just feel so threatened about it they had to retaliate. Me and my friend even got a signed poster for winning a game. I raised my poster up high and yelled out kind of a "fuck ya" without the f word. It just felt great the only time I have ever gotten anything from playing games.
I think the fact that they withheld the PvP means they are trying to make sure it works fine. If it's THAT more PvM-centric then they could've just thrown in what PvP system they had at hand and just fix it later. I think it's fair for me to believe Blizzard knows PvP keeps a lot of players playing. I find it weird that they're saying they're not aiming to make D3 an e-sport, but introduced an arena and teamfights -- as opposed to the old, unorganized way of PvP in D2. We can't really tell if open world PvP is out of the question, they could always enable an open PvP server or something for that, like most online games. Blizzard has made lots of changes with some of their games before, and I appreciate that they gamble to see if they came up with something that MAY BE BETTER. They won't get everything right, but at least there's that effort to change things up. Time will tell. I do agree with PvP'ers too, I personally farm for hours on end --- for PvP, with all the games I play.
NektelMP: Major thing that hurts replayability from what I saw in beta was the lack of overworld randomization :\
Friend: but none of those games did any good
Friend: well thats ANOTHER thing i dont like
Friend: the game is linear
NektelMP: Well its garunteed to do good, its already presold millions, just depends on wether it can keep people
Wrong, perspective view of a whole.
In the beta, Jay Wilson said that stage randomization is nearly 2-3 variations with less modification, because they want the first act to be straight. But later there are dozens of randomization in all maps (Check force videos on youtube).
@lack of creativity and endgame boring:
Nephalem Valor is something that gives dinamic to diablo 3. Forces you to go out world, search champion packs (so more challenge), more loots, run around the clock to get a buff benefit, etc.
If I bite what you're friend is saying, it's seems that inferno progression is a joke and no hard at all, and I mean, really? It's going to take time to actually progress. It's not that simple. You need to farm the hell out the game; sell stuff; buy stuff; craft stuff; feew.... too many things to do in other to progress, also we have achivements, pvp and stuff. So you're really have things to do with this game, and yes you're going to use your gear for something (^^^^^^^^^^^^^).
@pvp
Jay Wilson stated that Diablo 3 is going to be wanted for it's pve, and want pve to be SUPERIOR.
PVP in this game is something to have fun and not an ESPORT feature in the game. If your friend played D2 for pvp (which is viable) and don't care about pve because it's boring, so this game (D3) is not for him. Simple as that: If you want to take pvp seriosly D3 is not your game.
I respect your friend's decision, but bash the game because pvp will not be competitive as D2, is a matter of opinion, not a fact. Deal with it. Also the fanboy argument is so stupid. I'm going to play the game because I have fun obliterating packs and packs of demons with my friends, beats me if pvp is gonna be on background.
Well, if they make farming for PvP stuff in Inferno more fun, then yes, I am with them for going that way. Let's face it, Baal runs were deathly boring(my honest opinion). If farming for end game stuff is more challenging, or at least not as repetitive, then D3 will already be a success for me.
I love how the PvP side always keeps saying they just want to suggest PvP features. However, what those features end up boiling down to is they want the ability to force other players into PvP. They don't seem to want fair, organized PvP. I've not been against PvP at all, I'm looking forward to Arena and hope that they add a few different game~modes for it to give us different ways to PvP (including duels). Yet because I like this more casual PvP system that allows the average person to jump right in and enjoy themselves, I'm not a REAL PvP'er.
I won't argue that PvP prolongs a games lifespan by giving people something to do after they have gotten bored of grinding PvE content. However, it doesn't mean that its the ONLY way to prolong a game's lifespan. Blizzard can (and has hinted at) add monthly PvE content to add additional content for players to experience. They can do holiday events that get people to try find specific or do specific quests. There are a multitude of ways the game can be prolonged and they don't all revolve around PvP.
The issue boils down to the casual vs competitive. However, this really isn't something that is up for debate as Blizzard has already said it won't be a competitive environment. It will be a challenging and fun way for people to bash each other for entertainment. That isn't a bad thing guys! It seems that you cannot let go of the need to feel better then others though and just have fun. Its this desire to prove yourself the king that creates the conflict we keep having. I honestly don't care if any of you are better then me... I just want to enjoy myself and have fun.
I love how the PvP side always keeps saying they just want to suggest PvP features. However, what those features end up boiling down to is they want the ability to force other players into PvP. They don't seem to want fair, organized PvP. I've not been against PvP at all, I'm looking forward to Arena and hope that they add a few different game~modes for it to give us different ways to PvP (including duels). Yet because I like this more casual PvP system that allows the average person to jump right in and enjoy themselves, I'm not a REAL PvP'er.
I won't argue that PvP prolongs a games lifespan by giving people something to do after they have gotten bored of grinding PvE content. However, it doesn't mean that its the ONLY way to prolong a game's lifespan. Blizzard can (and has hinted at) add monthly PvE content to add additional content for players to experience. They can do holiday events that get people to try find specific or do specific quests. There are a multitude of ways the game can be prolonged and they don't all revolve around PvP.
The issue boils down to the casual vs competitive. However, this really isn't something that is up for debate as Blizzard has already said it won't be a competitive environment. It will be a challenging and fun way for people to bash each other for entertainment. That isn't a bad thing guys! It seems that you cannot let go of the need to feel better then others though and just have fun. Its this desire to prove yourself the king that creates the conflict we keep having. I honestly don't care if any of you are better then me... I just want to enjoy myself and have fun.
There will always be a competitive environment in games. Blizzard is really powerless to stop it.
There will always be a competitive environment in games. Blizzard is really powerless to stop it.
Sure, there will be players that try to be competitive. However, if the game is not designed around competitive play the majority of players won't be playing it competitively. So yes, Blizzard can influence how competitive the game becomes by choosing to omit features that focus on competition.
I love how you keep trying to fight for your style of play when its very clear that Blizzard and the majority of the community don't want it. Guess you're bound to be disappointed.
I still don't know why you are the only avid PvE poster on the PvP forums, Ecutruin. Not that it is a bad thing. I don't go to your PvE forums and argue about how that could affect PvP or whatever. You guys have already won this round with a below the belt hit from Blizzard. You guys have almost a whole year (if not longer knowing Blizzard) to have it your way. But you guys still have to come here to pick a fight, when we are just trying to build a strong supporting PvP community.
There are so many well balanced games built for competitive play out there that I can't fathom why anyone would try and say " to hell with blizzard we'll play this competitively anyway!" I mean, it's going to motly be whoever had the dankest items wins, and with a RMAH that just means money wins. Any sort of pvp is going to be completely skillless mind numbing fun, or griefing attempts.
I'm under the personal opinion anyone insisting D3 should be/will be/is a competitive pvp game are the people who are unable to compete in actual competitive balanced platforms of skill and just want to say "I spent X more money/time than you thus I am the better player" instead of being capable of winning through skill. It's the casuals crutch- it doesnt matter how skilled you are just how long you farm.
I just don't see why these people want so desperately to make diablo 3 something it's not.
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Your experience with gaming and PvP seems to be centered around Diablo 2. Sorry, but the world moved on and Blizzard knows it. There is little point in me repeating myself only to have you spout nonsense based on your warped views on what makes games fun, because its not what makes playing fun for the majority of players that will be playing Diablo 3. Sorry, but you're just wrong.
Blizzard isn't a stupid company. They do market analysis and are even willing to delay games if they feel that the end result isn't up to par yet. They've been working on Diablo 3 for six years. You'd think that if your views actually represented ANY kind of majority, Blizzard would be implementing things differently. However, obviously Blizzard understands that catering to people that want the ability to harass other players for fun doesn't really benefit the community.
Go back to your precious Diablo 2 or actually realize that Diablo 3 isn't MEANT to be for someone like you. Its aimed at a new audience that has grown up on new games. Perhaps you'll enjoy it more if you stop comparing it to something you blindly dedicated 12~ years of your life to and looked at it for its own merits. Perhaps not...in which case you can just not buy it and continue blindly dedicating more of your life to Diablo 2. After all, they said they still intend on keeping it going for some time.
I don't compare Diablo 3 to Diablo 2 or any other games. One, it's not even out yet, two it creates more pointless arguments. But in DIablo 2 the only reason I did Baal runs AT ALL was to level up and get better gear for PvP. Which is probably why there was so many Baal run games and trading games. If you already have gear good enough to kill Baal why do you need to keep getting better gear? It is because you want to be better than other players, not so you can kill Baal faster because I bet that almost nobody keeps time recordings then gets all happy when they beat their record. It is not fun doing the same thing over and over and over and over again only to have the good drops grabbed by someone else.
To all the PvP'ers, keep up the good work.
Again and still, what merits do you have as a PvP'er to come in here and tell us that Diablo 2 PvP was flawed and broken? Who are you to tell us what the majority of PvP'ers did in Diablo 2? You were there with me in the prime years apparently, so tell me how what you found out that I did not.
I love how all of you guys try and compare a played out and fleshed out full Diablo 2 in its twilight years, to Diablo 3 which is fresh and new. Compare vanilla D2 to D3 if you want to compare. Same shit applies to every mechanic D3 has.
No, the developers tell you what the game is and how it should be played, and obviously they think PvP should be relegated to area battles, so there you go.
For the record, I have not played D3 PvP and none of my views would change by playing it. I am well aware that the style of combat is relatively the same and that does not worry me 1 bit. Team dueling, health globes, arena with no options bother me.
On the survey I filled out after playing the demo and they asked what I was looking forward to most I answered PvP with out a doubt.
Maybe they'll add arena with a ton of options, maybe not. I agree though that a barebones arena would suck.
I don't really buy into all the arguments saying "blah blah blah, you're wrong, because Blizzard and the majority says so, durrr." But 3-6 months after PvP has been released, then we can have a more accurate pulse on what the majority really want for it, and whether or not Blizzard was right in their design choices.
As for my own conjectures, yeah, hostility and dueling may have a place in private games. Not in public though, because it just enable more avenues for griefing. That said, I don't think there is much chance of getting open world PvP implemented, as it makes Arena somewhat redundant. Time will tell.
Actually, yes, the developers are always right on what they believe is best for their game. The game they are creating. They are always right because they are the only ones who can be right about the decisions they make. They base them off of marketing, metrics, what sells in other games, what they loved about Diablo 2, etc. etc. They do NOT make decisions based on what Adon thinks. You need to understand that your type of self-entitlement has no place in the world.
And yes, PvP is essentially the end game for me (and I'm primarily a PvMer). I hunt items so that I can slay other players. But I don't need hostility to do that. I can enjoy that part of the game in Arenas and the designated PvP games. Why not fight other players who are there to fight you. It just makes sense.
The fact that D3 will never be "competitive" in an e-Sports sense is due to the fact that they have stated they will not be balancing skills around PvP. Hence, some classes will be unbalanced. CAN people try and make it into an e-Sport? Sure, why not? Will it be successful? I highly doubt it. Only time will tell though.
The fact is that (as it should be with WoW arenas) if you want competitive gaming, SC2/DotA/CS:GO(hopefully) are your choices. I don't see D3 being in that group. PvP will be fun though.
Wrong, perspective view of a whole.
In the beta, Jay Wilson said that stage randomization is nearly 2-3 variations with less modification, because they want the first act to be straight. But later there are dozens of randomization in all maps (Check force videos on youtube).
@lack of creativity and endgame boring:
Nephalem Valor is something that gives dinamic to diablo 3. Forces you to go out world, search champion packs (so more challenge), more loots, run around the clock to get a buff benefit, etc.
If I bite what you're friend is saying, it's seems that inferno progression is a joke and no hard at all, and I mean, really? It's going to take time to actually progress. It's not that simple. You need to farm the hell out the game; sell stuff; buy stuff; craft stuff; feew.... too many things to do in other to progress, also we have achivements, pvp and stuff. So you're really have things to do with this game, and yes you're going to use your gear for something (^^^^^^^^^^^^^).
@pvp
Jay Wilson stated that Diablo 3 is going to be wanted for it's pve, and want pve to be SUPERIOR.
PVP in this game is something to have fun and not an ESPORT feature in the game. If your friend played D2 for pvp (which is viable) and don't care about pve because it's boring, so this game (D3) is not for him. Simple as that: If you want to take pvp seriosly D3 is not your game.
I respect your friend's decision, but bash the game because pvp will not be competitive as D2, is a matter of opinion, not a fact. Deal with it. Also the fanboy argument is so stupid. I'm going to play the game because I have fun obliterating packs and packs of demons with my friends, beats me if pvp is gonna be on background.
I won't argue that PvP prolongs a games lifespan by giving people something to do after they have gotten bored of grinding PvE content. However, it doesn't mean that its the ONLY way to prolong a game's lifespan. Blizzard can (and has hinted at) add monthly PvE content to add additional content for players to experience. They can do holiday events that get people to try find specific or do specific quests. There are a multitude of ways the game can be prolonged and they don't all revolve around PvP.
The issue boils down to the casual vs competitive. However, this really isn't something that is up for debate as Blizzard has already said it won't be a competitive environment. It will be a challenging and fun way for people to bash each other for entertainment. That isn't a bad thing guys! It seems that you cannot let go of the need to feel better then others though and just have fun. Its this desire to prove yourself the king that creates the conflict we keep having. I honestly don't care if any of you are better then me... I just want to enjoy myself and have fun.
Sure, there will be players that try to be competitive. However, if the game is not designed around competitive play the majority of players won't be playing it competitively. So yes, Blizzard can influence how competitive the game becomes by choosing to omit features that focus on competition.
I love how you keep trying to fight for your style of play when its very clear that Blizzard and the majority of the community don't want it. Guess you're bound to be disappointed.
I'm under the personal opinion anyone insisting D3 should be/will be/is a competitive pvp game are the people who are unable to compete in actual competitive balanced platforms of skill and just want to say "I spent X more money/time than you thus I am the better player" instead of being capable of winning through skill. It's the casuals crutch- it doesnt matter how skilled you are just how long you farm.
I just don't see why these people want so desperately to make diablo 3 something it's not.