Blizzard stance on PvP on april 2012, a summary

  • #41
    @Kodachii
    I'm just trying to understand why people have so much different reading of simple sentences. The content itself doesn't matter.

    Pushing people to their limits is one way to get to the real deal. Not very fair, but effective sometimes.

    People often hide to themselves their true motivation, mostly because there is immoral foundation behind (details here : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationalization_(psychology)). I'm just looking for it with the tools I have.

    I experiment because I'm interested in understanding the underlying process. I also know I'm not a competitive guy when it comes to defeating other people. I'm also trying to understand the other side, which is difficult as you might have figured out, because... I'm not on that side !

    Enough with my life, let the PvP thread continue !
  • #42
    I think this is the best thing they could do, trying to simultaneously balance a game for both pvp and pve almost never works, it was one of the biggest downfalls of WoW imo.
  • #43
    Quote from carlwiliams

    I think this is the best thing they could do, trying to simultaneously balance a game for both pvp and pve almost never works, it was one of the biggest downfalls of WoW imo.


    And yet many ask for it, that's why we're having countless threads on this topic : to understand why they ask for a serious PvP side despite what Blizzard said. (We could observe here that all Blizzard arguments against serious PvP are never answered, oddly...)
  • #45
    I remember a few years ago, I thought that calling myself "intelligent" in a half-subtle way was enough to be perceived as such. I eventually learned that I was only fooling myself.
  • #46
    I am honestly a bit confused that the competitive PvP crowd thinks they somehow 'won' after reading these blue posts. I mean, I'm all for Arena, but you guys seem to make out like they will for sure add the features you want to push this game towards an eSport, when in these blue posts alone they state that won't happen. Even the custom PvP match feature they stated they were wary about specifically because of how people would handle it. How does this mean you've 'won' the battle?

    I mean I guess if you're happy with this... awesome... we can be done discussing it. I'm mostly just curious how you guys see this as getting what you want....?
    Quote from GladHeHasBeta

    ecutruin +9000
  • #47
    @Adon : You said "I can't believe you kids are still on that esport train ha"
    Aside from the "age" argument of your intelligent discussion, I was wondering which train exactly are we on ? Last time I checked it was about eSport (public ratings, etc...) or eSport-like (duels, private pvp games, ...) issues.
    Are these over ?
    What is the topics we're discussing here ?

    Thanks
  • #48
    We are discussing custom or private arenas. We are not discussing esports or any money involved matches. We arn't talking about balances, MLG, ect. You kids, yes I said KIDS because that is what you obviously are since you are still stuck on the same argument that no one is talking about.

    Either grow up and discuss what is really being talked about, or move along and talk in the esport thread where it is dead and plagued with PvM'ers who cant read.
  • #49
    Quote from ecutruin

    I am honestly a bit confused that the competitive PvP crowd thinks they somehow 'won' after reading these blue posts. I mean, I'm all for Arena, but you guys seem to make out like they will for sure add the features you want to push this game towards an eSport, when in these blue posts alone they state that won't happen. Even the custom PvP match feature they stated they were wary about specifically because of how people would handle it. How does this mean you've 'won' the battle?

    I mean I guess if you're happy with this... awesome... we can be done discussing it. I'm mostly just curious how you guys see this as getting what you want....?
    U

    Until you can find one single post that I've ever made on these forums about why d3 should be an esport, I'll be scratching my head over this one and just assume that I'm somehow not a part of the "pvp crowd" xP
    The strong must rule if we are to survive.
  • #50
    We already have our “this is an emergency just in case something goes wrong-patch” that we put out this point. This is our “emergency balance-patch”, that we put out at this point. Then we have our PvP patch that we’ll put out and it’ll also probably be our secondary balance patch.
    source]

    So I wonder now, because it seems they are considering going against part of their reasoning. PvP patch that might be also a balance patch means either PvP affecting PvE, or different balance for PvP. Both they supposedly didn't want.
  • #51
    Quote from Adon

    We are discussing custom or private arenas. We are not discussing esports or any money involved matches. We arn't talking about balances, MLG, ect. [...youkids blabla...]


    Ok I get it.
    To me, private/custom arena boils down to eSport because Blizzard said :
    "It's one reason custom matches can make some people nervous, because it means players can start setting up their own games in attempts to create a more competitive system"

    It's the very heart of their problem : while they are absolutely not against private/custom arenas, developing them would allow people to turn D3 into an eSport (= "a more competitive system"), which they are not willing to do (to prevent splitting the game into 2 games).

    In my opinion, the awful WoW experience of trying to balance a single class for 2 very different purposes was so painful and expensive (for them, not for the players of course) that they decided never to do the same mistake again.
  • #52
    Quote from Astrand

    We already have our “this is an emergency just in case something goes wrong-patch” that we put out this point. This is our “emergency balance-patch”, that we put out at this point. Then we have our PvP patch that we’ll put out and it’ll also probably be our secondary balance patch.
    source]

    So I wonder now, because it seems they are considering going against part of their reasoning. PvP patch that might be also a balance patch means either PvP affecting PvE, or different balance for PvP. Both they supposedly didn't want.


    When they talk of balance it's always PvE they are taklking about. In this case, Jay meant "we will include in the PvP patch the second PvE balance patch". When they would start balancing the game for PvP, they would tell us in a much less hidden way !
  • #53
    Quote from Gryzorz

    Summary of Bashiok's posts found here : http://www.diablofan...-duels-outrage/

    Goals :
    - fun & casual PvP
    - no ladder
    - no leagues
    - no eSport
    - nothing that will allow a parallel competitive system to emerge (might prevent private arenas from being developed)
    - no PvP tracking system that allows to evaluate skill level

    Reasons :
    - confusing to have 2 different balance for the player (1 for PvP 1 for PvE)
    - don't want to maintain 2 games
    - don't want to sacrifice PvE if they keep the same balance between PvP and PvE
    - keep the game PvE-centered



    Blizzard is destroying their own games.

    They JUST NOW realized that Starcraft 2 needed a update for streamers/esport. But they will probably never allow LAN, which is resulting in players lagging inside games, that could've been hosted as a LAN, but are on Blizzards servers.

    What I'm pointing the most at here is Progamers. I've seen so many tournaments wher the players have to pause the game and explain that he's experiencing Delay or something like that.

    Blizzard is just being retarded right now. They are seriously taking the piss. collecting it in a bucket, and throwing it at us.
    Stating that it would be confusing to balance PVP and PVE that way, is just stupid as fuck.

    Why would anyone get confused? Unless you're really braindead, then sure you might get confused.

    For example, A slow is 10 seconds in PVE, and 4 Seconds in PVP. Was that so hard?

    Stealing this picture from HYDRAMIST.TV:


    This is a good example.

    Heres Hydramists take on it:


    And last but not least. Why would they find it funny to PVP, when you have NOTHING to prove but some cosmetics that everyone will be able to get their hands on ?

    Thats the most exciting part about the PVP system that WoW has. You can distinguish yourself if you're a good player, or if you are a beginner that needs to practice.

    And this is where the Skirmish arena comes in. Blizzard removed that aswell. You could test your Setup, practice and go in 1v2 for the lulz.
  • #54
    Quote from Gurkburk92

    Blizzard is destroying their own games.


    You're wrong. They just are changing their games to cater towards a different crowd. Seems like that crowd might not include you.. but.. oh well?
    Quote from GladHeHasBeta

    ecutruin +9000
  • #55
    Quote from ecutruin

    Quote from Gurkburk92

    Blizzard is destroying their own games.


    You're wrong. They just are changing their games to cater towards a different crowd. Seems like that crowd might not include you.. but.. oh well?


    To what crowd might that be ? The retarded Twelve year olds crowd?

    So Blizzard is doing what the Call of duty creators are doing then?

    Creating more and more retarded games?

    One of the reasons Diablo 2 LOD is still alive, is because of the fucking PVP there is in the game. Even though its mostly in Act1 outside the bridge, Who cares?

    If they would make a Better PVP system where you could play competatively, this game would never die. Just like diablo 2.

    If we reach maxlevel and start pvping and notice that the arena is completely unbalanced, what then ? People are gonna play the PVE and then reach Nightmare, possibly realize that its too hard for them and QUIT THE GAME.
  • #56
    I don't care if PVP is balanced or the focus. I just want to be able to setup games where I am playing with my friends against people of nearish similar skills or win rate.
  • #58
    I don't see anything wrong with the fact that Blizzard are taking the Diablo 2 route with PVP in this game, this is after all a Diablo game.

    I like the fact that they are keeping the PVP fun and casual, i wish more developers would take that approach.
  • #59
    So another thread with people who complain about being able to do custom games which give nothing, but possibilities (playing with friends, doing a clan event, e-sporting shit, whatever...).
  • #60
    Quote from Gryzorz

    Quote from Adon

    We are discussing custom or private arenas. We are not discussing esports or any money involved matches. We arn't talking about balances, MLG, ect. [...youkids blabla...]


    Ok I get it.
    To me, private/custom arena boils down to eSport because Blizzard said :
    "It's one reason custom matches can make some people nervous, because it means players can start setting up their own games in attempts to create a more competitive system"

    It's the very heart of their problem : while they are absolutely not against private/custom arenas, developing them would allow people to turn D3 into an eSport (= "a more competitive system"), which they are not willing to do (to prevent splitting the game into 2 games).(....)

    I'm not sure why a lot of people are reading into that quote that Blizzard is not implementing custom arenas. The only thing I can read there is, that Blizz is aware that some players might get nervous when custom arenas would come. It does not say that custom arenas aren't coming. With all the quotes I have recently read it rather seems like they are testing custom arenas currently and that it MIGHT be in the PvP patch. There is currently on the dfans frontpage a big blue post about pvp. The following is part of it:
    We're open to the idea of custom PvP matches, which would allow for duels in the arenas. There are a lot of decisions before we can get there, but on the design philosophy front we don't have anything against practice duels or other custom matches (1v4?), as long as they can't be used for progression. It'll just come down to implementation and what we're able to pull off in a timely manner.

    I atleast would enjoy custom matches and since the ToS is quite clear on eSports too I have no fear that PvP in D3 will be full of elitism and bullshitting (and boring pvp grind)
    Let's just enjoy the release in two weeks and see what happens once the PvP patch is coming
  • #61
    Quote from keldaur1

    So another thread with people who complain about being able to do custom games which give nothing, but possibilities (playing with friends, doing a clan event, e-sporting shit, whatever...).


    How's NO RANKING WHATSOEVER gonna help E-sport? How are you gonna know who's good or not ?
  • #62
    Quote from Gurkburk92

    Quote from keldaur1

    So another thread with people who complain about being able to do custom games which give nothing, but possibilities (playing with friends, doing a clan event, e-sporting shit, whatever...).


    How's NO RANKING WHATSOEVER gonna help E-sport? How are you gonna know who's good or not ?


    I am going to forgive your condencesdient CAPS-ON due that it's obvious you have no clue how e-sports work. Events, classifying and tourneys. Ladders have nothing to do with it most part of the time. If you knew a bit about e-sport, you would know you actually don't look at a ladder and say "ok, this is the best player on the world", but look on his tourney/event performance, because at the end of the day, it's what people will watch to see their e-stars fighting for a prize. Giving you the ability to set-up those tourneys via custom games would make that possible for people who are interested in that stuff. So there goes your answer.

    I am not interested on watching D3 arena competitive matches, but certainly i am interested on being able to play custom friend games, so i find any discussion about them pointless, because it gives you ways to play, and doesn't bring anything specially bad into the game (pvp is gonna be in game, no matter what you post, so you are going to get pvp balance threads with custom games or not, and they already said there won't be any progression on them).
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