Blizzard stance on PvP on april 2012, a summary

  • #21

    I didn't say anything about Diablo 3, I said DIABLO. As in the series. You guys all whine "Diablo is about PvM!". Well guess what, Diablo is a solo game first, with tacked on co-op. I can play that game too.


    Except, that's not the case with Diablo 3. Much like the previous two Diablo games having open~world PvP and Diablo 3 having Arena. Games evolve and its been 12 years since the last Diablo game. This Diablo game is about co~op play according to the developers and it certainly seems like they are making incentives to play with others.

    ecutruin +9000
  • #22


    I didn't say anything about Diablo 3, I said DIABLO. As in the series. You guys all whine "Diablo is about PvM!". Well guess what, Diablo is a solo game first, with tacked on co-op. I can play that game too.


    Except, that's not the case with Diablo 3. Much like the previous two Diablo games having open~world PvP and Diablo 3 having Arena. Games evolve and its been 12 years since the last Diablo game. This Diablo game is about co~op play according to the developers and it certainly seems like they are making incentives to play with others.

    Yea they are, it is still a solo game at heart though. It is completely 100% soloable, thus a solo game. It might be fun to play co-op but it is by no means required, and quite frankly I feel it hurts the game. If they didn't bother with co-op we could have more PvM content. Just like PvP.
  • #23

    Yea they are, it is still a solo game at heart though. It is completely 100% soloable, thus a solo game. It might be fun to play co-op but it is by no means required, and quite frankly I feel it hurts the game. If they didn't bother with co-op we could have more PvM content. Just like PvP.


    Guess that's your opinion and one I don't share. Seems from what Jay has stated as well, Hardcore Inferno will be extremely difficult to solo (he stated it wasn't even designed to be solo'able in hardcore). So, according to the devs, the game isn't completely solo'able. Also... co~op has always been a strong part of the Diablo series. Sure you could play it alone, but you were always encouraged to play with others via battle.net. So Diablo 3 isn't straying far from the path there. Unlike PvP where they are integrating a system that was tacked on in the previous two games.

    ecutruin +9000
  • #24


    Yea they are, it is still a solo game at heart though. It is completely 100% soloable, thus a solo game. It might be fun to play co-op but it is by no means required, and quite frankly I feel it hurts the game. If they didn't bother with co-op we could have more PvM content. Just like PvP.


    Guess that's your opinion and one I don't share. Seems from what Jay has stated as well, Hardcore Inferno will be extremely difficult to solo (he stated it wasn't even designed to be solo'able in hardcore). So, according to the devs, the game isn't completely solo'able. Also... co~op has always been a strong part of the Diablo series. Sure you could play it alone, but you were always encouraged to play with others via battle.net. So Diablo 3 isn't straying far from the path there. Unlike PvP where they are integrating a system that was tacked on in the previous two games.

    Actually you weren't encouraged to play Bnet at all until this release. It was an afterthought in every game thus far. They even stated that themselves. Also Jay did not say inferno was not soloable, he said Inferno was not designed for HC characters to be able to beat it, that includes co-op and solo game play. The entire game is soloable, just like every other Diablo game before it.
  • #25

    Actually you weren't encouraged to play Bnet at all until this release. It was an afterthought in every game thus far. They even stated that themselves. Also Jay did not say inferno was not soloable, he said Inferno was not designed for HC characters to be able to beat it, that includes co-op and solo game play. The entire game is soloable, just like every other Diablo game before it.


    I dunno, ladders in Diablo 2 with special gear only available in ladder...certainly seems to be an incentive to play online (aka co~op). Thanks for repeating my statement as well. Hardcore Inferno is part of the game, no? If it is not expected to be solo'able...then you cannot solo the game, no?

    ecutruin +9000
  • #26


    Actually you weren't encouraged to play Bnet at all until this release. It was an afterthought in every game thus far. They even stated that themselves. Also Jay did not say inferno was not soloable, he said Inferno was not designed for HC characters to be able to beat it, that includes co-op and solo game play. The entire game is soloable, just like every other Diablo game before it.


    I dunno, ladders in Diablo 2 with special gear only available in ladder...certainly seems to be an incentive to play online (aka co~op). Thanks for repeating my statement as well. Hardcore Inferno is part of the game, no? If it is not expected to be solo'able...then you cannot solo the game, no?

    Hardcore is like battle.net or PvP. It is an add-on. A side matter if you will. No bearing on the actual game. I know a ton of people that didn't play online Diablo 1-2. You pointing out ladder is like me saying trading and PvP are incentive to play online (aka co-op). It wasn't an incentive, it was an added bonus for players already online. Noone saw that and was like "Oh yea im going online!". My case is proven by the outrage of people that have to be online to play now. They are more vocal then any PvP or PvM group, they must be the majority.
  • #27

    Hardcore is like battle.net or PvP. It is an add-on. A side matter if you will. No bearing on the actual game. I know a ton of people that didn't play online Diablo 1-2. You pointing out ladder is like me saying trading and PvP are incentive to play online (aka co-op). It wasn't an incentive, it was an added bonus for players already online. Noone saw that and was like "Oh yea im going online!". My case is proven by the outrage of people that have to be online to play now. They are more vocal then any PvP or PvM group, they must be the majority.


    Actually, those complaining that they have to be online are also quite a small group. Most have accepted it is required with the new design of the game. As for trading and PvP being an incentive to play online...of course they are. If you you enjoy PvP then it is definitely an incentive to play the game online instead of offline, how could you think otherwise?

    ecutruin +9000
  • #28
    6 months after release and Blizzard will break. Calling it now. :)

    They seem to miss sacrifices they make by trying to block idea of custom games. It's not just competitive PvP, which would include ladders and/or some small tournaments. We know that they are not going to balance the game for PvP, but not allowing custom games would make it impossible to balance inside PvP community, by banning certain OP skills or items as a rules of thoes custom games, made by players. This will result in more whinning than they can expect with competitive PvP. If barbarians start to win every casual random PvP match out there you think people will not whine because it's casual? Well, dream on. More will whine because there is no way for the community to solve the problem by themselves.

    Other part is games like 1v2, 1v3, 2v3 or just games with your friends. What are the odds that you and your friends will be matched by a random matchmaking system that is based on items. No chance if you want to have fun smacking each others heads.

    For all thoes who think that PvP is not important part of the game, because it is for minority of players. I can tell you that Hardcore mode and Inferno are the same. Majority of players will not go there. Still thoes parts are made solid. PvP will be solid too, and it doesn't matter much, what are they saying now. It can take them 6 months or maybe a year, but they will get there eventually.
  • #29

    PvP will be solid too, and it doesn't matter much, what are they saying now. It can take them 6 months or maybe a year, but they will get there eventually.


    They say pretty much the same. Some people will dedicate themselves to PvP no matter what.
    They simply don't want to balance 2 games (+ they might save the PvP for Blizzard DOTA ?), which they WILL have to do if they enable competitive (hence official) PvP.
    They also are extremely well aware that wagons of people WILL whine no matter what.
  • #30

    6 months after release and Blizzard will break. Calling it now. :)

    They seem to miss sacrifices they make by trying to block idea of custom games. It's not just competitive PvP, which would include ladders and/or some small tournaments. We know that they are not going to balance the game for PvP, but not allowing custom games would make it impossible to balance inside PvP community, by banning certain OP skills or items as a rules of thoes custom games, made by players. This will result in more whinning than they can expect with competitive PvP. If barbarians start to win every casual random PvP match out there you think people will not whine because it's casual? Well, dream on. More will whine because there is no way for the community to solve the problem by themselves.

    Other part is games like 1v2, 1v3, 2v3 or just games with your friends. What are the odds that you and your friends will be matched by a random matchmaking system that is based on items. No chance if you want to have fun smacking each others heads.

    For all thoes who think that PvP is not important part of the game, because it is for minority of players. I can tell you that Hardcore mode and Inferno are the same. Majority of players will not go there. Still thoes parts are made solid. PvP will be solid too, and it doesn't matter much, what are they saying now. It can take them 6 months or maybe a year, but they will get there eventually.


    Those are some persuasive arguments. They should allow custom PvP games for those reasons.

    Surely they can make PvP "officially" casual, thus not needing to balance for competitive play and let the community balance it themselves.

    And I hadn't thought about not being able to play PvP with my friends. I definitely want this, and I want to be able to 1v2 with my friends while banning a skill, or something along those lines.
  • #31

    6 months after release and Blizzard will break. Calling it now. :)

    They seem to miss sacrifices they make by trying to block idea of custom games. It's not just competitive PvP, which would include ladders and/or some small tournaments. We know that they are not going to balance the game for PvP, but not allowing custom games would make it impossible to balance inside PvP community, by banning certain OP skills or items as a rules of thoes custom games, made by players. This will result in more whinning than they can expect with competitive PvP. If barbarians start to win every casual random PvP match out there you think people will not whine because it's casual? Well, dream on. More will whine because there is no way for the community to solve the problem by themselves.

    Other part is games like 1v2, 1v3, 2v3 or just games with your friends. What are the odds that you and your friends will be matched by a random matchmaking system that is based on items. No chance if you want to have fun smacking each others heads.

    For all thoes who think that PvP is not important part of the game, because it is for minority of players. I can tell you that Hardcore mode and Inferno are the same. Majority of players will not go there. Still thoes parts are made solid. PvP will be solid too, and it doesn't matter much, what are they saying now. It can take them 6 months or maybe a year, but they will get there eventually.


    You obviously missed a key point. Blizzard isn't balancing PvP. They won't care if a skill, an item, etc is OP in Arena. They are not shooting for a competitive environment at all. Its a casual Arena system for players to jump in with their powerful characters, bash each other for fun, and that's it.

    As far as custom PvP games go, I personally don't care but Blizzard seems to have reservations against it. They know that offering features specifically for players to create a more competitive environment will create a false impression that they are supporting more competitive play, which they are against.

    ecutruin +9000
  • #32

    You obviously missed a key point. Blizzard isn't balancing PvP. They won't care if a skill, an item, etc is OP in Arena. They are not shooting for a competitive environment at all. Its a casual Arena system for players to jump in with their powerful characters, bash each other for fun, and that's it.


    Well, clearly you and Blizzard are missing some points. The arena system that you mentioned was ready in 2010. It seems it doesn't feel good enough to ship it 2 years later.
  • #33

    Well, clearly you and Blizzard are missing some points. The arena system that you mentioned was ready in 2010. It seems it doesn't feel good enough to ship it 2 years later.


    Pretty sure it wasn't ready for ship. It was a preview, most likely not integrated completely within the game, no matchmaking, etc. From the sound of it, we could actually have the Arena system within a few months after launch. Depends on how many different game modes they choose to implement and how long the matchmaking system takes to finalize I'm sure.

    ecutruin +9000
  • #34
    What all of this tells me is that blizzard is aware of our concerns and they've been thinking about ways to add more pvp into the game as a way to goof off with your friends without the game running away as an esport so that they never have to balance a "second game".

    This is exactly what I've wanted from the get-go, and what I've expected. They didn't give a definite yes or no. They just gave reasons to both sides of the thought process. The truth is the fans get more or less what they want, and popular opinion tends to shift over time, especially when the pvm content begins to feel boring.

    I expect duels and more pvp features to be added in the first expansion.
    The strong must rule if we are to survive.
  • #35

    What all of this tells me is that blizzard is aware of our concerns and they've been thinking about ways to add more pvp into the game as a way to goof off with your friends without the game running away as an esport so that they never have to balance a "second game".

    This is exactly what I've wanted from the get-go, and what I've expected. They didn't give a definite yes or no. They just gave reasons to both sides of the thought process. The truth is the fans get more or less what they want, and popular opinion tends to shift over time, especially when the pvm content begins to feel boring.

    I expect duels and more pvp features to be added in the first expansion.

    Oh definitely. The way that we play the game doesn't really show until later in the life of the game. I mean yea I love to PvP from level 9+, but it won't show to them until a year or so into the shelf life. Which is fine because then we will start to get what we want. History repeats itself, and Jay isn't above that.
  • #36


    What all of this tells me is that blizzard is aware of our concerns and they've been thinking about ways to add more pvp into the game as a way to goof off with your friends without the game running away as an esport so that they never have to balance a "second game".

    This is exactly what I've wanted from the get-go, and what I've expected. They didn't give a definite yes or no. They just gave reasons to both sides of the thought process. The truth is the fans get more or less what they want, and popular opinion tends to shift over time, especially when the pvm content begins to feel boring.

    I expect duels and more pvp features to be added in the first expansion.

    Oh definitely. The way that we play the game doesn't really show until later in the life of the game. I mean yea I love to PvP from level 9+, but it won't show to them until a year or so into the shelf life. Which is fine because then we will start to get what we want. History repeats itself, and Jay isn't above that.


    So why whine now if simply waiting will get D3 to become an eSport ?
  • #37



    What all of this tells me is that blizzard is aware of our concerns and they've been thinking about ways to add more pvp into the game as a way to goof off with your friends without the game running away as an esport so that they never have to balance a "second game".

    This is exactly what I've wanted from the get-go, and what I've expected. They didn't give a definite yes or no. They just gave reasons to both sides of the thought process. The truth is the fans get more or less what they want, and popular opinion tends to shift over time, especially when the pvm content begins to feel boring.

    I expect duels and more pvp features to be added in the first expansion.

    Oh definitely. The way that we play the game doesn't really show until later in the life of the game. I mean yea I love to PvP from level 9+, but it won't show to them until a year or so into the shelf life. Which is fine because then we will start to get what we want. History repeats itself, and Jay isn't above that.


    So why whine now if simply waiting will get D3 to become an eSport ?

    Wasn't aware anyone was whining. Seems stating your opinion is classed as whining. Why "whine" in here about me "whining"? Also no, Diablo won't become an esport by just waiting, I can't believe you kids are still on that esport train ha. Really need some new material. Diablo will get PvP recognition and options later in its life time where it is more "needed" then it will at the start.
  • #38
    Gryzorz, is it just me or do you intentionally come off as a bitter person in many of your posts here :P

    Also don't confuse pvp with esports. They are different concepts.
    The strong must rule if we are to survive.
  • #39
    PvP is fun, especially with your friends. I think it is appropriate to suggest Blizzard a custom PvP system.

    I'm sure everyone will give it a try, and a second try, and another one, and another....
    Hey You, What is your mission?
  • #40

    6 months after release and Blizzard will break. Calling it now. :)

    They seem to miss sacrifices they make by trying to block idea of custom games. It's not just competitive PvP, which would include ladders and/or some small tournaments. We know that they are not going to balance the game for PvP, but not allowing custom games would make it impossible to balance inside PvP community, by banning certain OP skills or items as a rules of thoes custom games, made by players. This will result in more whinning than they can expect with competitive PvP. If barbarians start to win every casual random PvP match out there you think people will not whine because it's casual? Well, dream on. More will whine because there is no way for the community to solve the problem by themselves.

    Other part is games like 1v2, 1v3, 2v3 or just games with your friends. What are the odds that you and your friends will be matched by a random matchmaking system that is based on items. No chance if you want to have fun smacking each others heads.

    For all thoes who think that PvP is not important part of the game, because it is for minority of players. I can tell you that Hardcore mode and Inferno are the same. Majority of players will not go there. Still thoes parts are made solid. PvP will be solid too, and it doesn't matter much, what are they saying now. It can take them 6 months or maybe a year, but they will get there eventually.


    I was going to say the same thing. Blizzard knows how much fun their communities have with variation and custom games. Look at Starcraft, the most fun I ever had playing that game was in "use map settings" type games. I could go play SWAT or Defense, MTG, all kinds of things.

    Sure custom games would open up the doors to making PvP ultra competitive. It would also lead to cool game types, like no weapon barb dues, and boots only matches. Silly things to play with friends. I could care less about a battle arena where i only get matched up with randoms. I want to own my friends or own with my friends.

    All in all, I doubt they leave out custom games. It opens up the game to be "more fun".
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