Duels and Hostility in *Private Only*

Poll: Should dueling and/or hostility be enabled in *Private* games?

Dueling and Hostility in Private Games

Should dueling and/or hostility be enabled in *Private* games? - Multiple Choice

  • Neither 30.6% of Users - 34 votes
  • Just dueling enabled 36.9% of Users - 41 votes
  • Just hostility enabled 2.7% of Users - 3 votes
  • Both dueling and hostility enabled 33.3% of Users - 37 votes
  • #1
    I was reading along in the pvp forums as part of my daily routine found one idea brought up by Ecutruin (iirc) to be particularly insightful in the "PvP should get more love" thread. People don't want hostility and duels by large in public games because that simply paves the road for grief'ing and wasting other people's time. But what if dueling and or hostility were enabled or you had the option to enable them for private games with those on your friends list. If someone is a jerkoff what are they doing on your friends list and in your private game, paired with the fact we will eventually be able to vote kick people out of a game. I imagine a change like this would take minimal resources to implement compared to alternatives and would make >nearly

    I decided to make a new topic with a poll seeing as how the idea was posted on page 5 of the previous topic and thought it deserved more attention.


    If there is really a significant downside to this suggestion, I'd love to hear it. Please give a reason as to why you voted one direction or another.
    The strong must rule if we are to survive.
  • #2
    You are adding hostility to your great idea? Shit im in. Ill never touch a public game ever again.
  • #3
    Don't see why this needed it's own topic, but I suppose it was getting hard to see in the previous discussion.

    I don't see a real problem with either in a private game. The only minor nitpick is how often the feature would actually be used really.
  • #4
    On a personal note I'd use it most of my play-time. That's just me though.
    The strong must rule if we are to survive.
  • #5
    Quote from NecrosisBob

    Don't see why this needed it's own topic, but I suppose it was getting hard to see in the previous discussion.

    I don't see a real problem with either in a private game. The only minor nitpick is how often the feature would actually be used really.
    Would be used by the people that came from Diablo 2 that used ALL of the functions given to them. Not just half of them. Would give those players the "random" dynamic gameplay they are used to from Diablo1-2. Would be used A LOT actually.
  • #6
    Yes I'm aware that the people that use a certain function would still use a certain function. The issue would only be in that is that group actually large enough to warrant such effort or support. Personal perceptions of a demographic from in that demographic are often very skewed.
  • #7
    Quote from NecrosisBob

    Yes I'm aware that the people that use a certain function would still use a certain function. The issue would only be in that is that group actually large enough to warrant such effort or support. Personal perceptions of a demographic from in that demographic are often very skewed.
    Well I agree with you on that last part. Seen it way to much here on these forums.
    I don't think it would take much effort really, code in a button, code in "IF hostility is ON then .....". Now I see people arguing over resources spent on it, and well it is what it is. None of us have any real pull and I highly doubt Blizzard pays much attention if any to this sub section forum.
  • #8
    I must agree with NecrosisBob in that this tread didn't need a new topic just to post a poll and incite more arguments. Topics have been done to death on duels and hostility and adding a new thread to rehash it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

    That said, I really have no complaint with hostility and dueling in PRIVATE ONLY. If kept to private gameplay, it wouldn't have an overall negative effect on PvM. However, why should such features be added? I mean, honestly.. there are no game lists, so its not like you can seek out private open-world PvP games (which would be counterproductive to add since they have Arena). So the only people I can see using this are those that form small custom PvP groups (has to be small with only 4 people per game) or the occasional duel your buddy after a boss fight. Seems like the overall use of these features in private only is rather small.

    Now I could be wrong, but that's honestly how I see things playing out. Seems like a waste of effort to add something counter to Arena and that would get limited usage due to the overall design of the game. I cannot see a major reason not to add it besides that though, so I don't really care one way or another.
    Quote from GladHeHasBeta

    ecutruin +9000
  • #9
    Quote from ecutruin

    I must agree with NecrosisBob in that this tread didn't need a new topic just to post a poll and incite more arguments. Topics have been done to death on duels and hostility and adding a new thread to rehash it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

    That said, I really have no complaint with hostility and dueling in PRIVATE ONLY. If kept to private gameplay, it wouldn't have an overall negative effect on PvM. However, why should such features be added? I mean, honestly.. there are no game lists, so its not like you can seek out private open-world PvP games (which would be counterproductive to add since they have Arena). So the only people I can see using this are those that form small custom PvP groups (has to be small with only 4 people per game) or the occasional duel your buddy after a boss fight. Seems like the overall use of these features in private only is rather small.

    Now I could be wrong, but that's honestly how I see things playing out. Seems like a waste of effort to add something counter to Arena and that would get limited usage due to the overall design of the game. I cannot see a major reason not to add it besides that though, so I don't really care one way or another.
    Holy sheeee....I almost agree with you. It is a function that really doesn't need the high end programmers attention. It is something any of the lower end workers could code into the game at a later time. Still, odds of it coming I feel are like 0. I do however see regular duels making their way to both game types, not only because Jay said it was something he wanted, but because people are going to be annoyed to having to make 3 games to duel once.
  • #10
    Quote from Adon

    Holy sheeee....I almost agree with you. It is a function that really doesn't need the high end programmers attention. It is something any of the lower end workers could code into the game at a later time. Still, odds of it coming I feel are like 0. I do however see regular duels making their way to both game types, not only because Jay said it was something he wanted, but because people are going to be annoyed to having to make 3 games to duel once.

    Actually, Jay never stated that he wanted dueling in public games. What Jay said is that he wanted a means for HARDCORE players to duel to the death. This could easily just be implemented as part of hardcore-only arena and doesn't need to be a dueling function overall at all.

    As for making three games to duel once...if dueling was added into private only games (the best option in my opinion) then could you not just play one game with your friends and duel with them freely in that private game? If you're joining a public game, its for the purpose of completing the content, not PvP. In a sense, its much like an instance in WoW, you join with the intent of completing the instance...not going off to the side and dueling one of the other members. Seems like it'd be best for everyone if any sort of duel/hostility feature was kept to either the Arena or Private games and noone has really stated any good reasons to the contrary.
    Quote from GladHeHasBeta

    ecutruin +9000
  • #11
    Why vote for neither?
    The strong must rule if we are to survive.
  • #12
    Why not?
  • #13
    This solution would please more people than not, grow the in game economy and retail economy by keeping people who like to pvp around playing the game and buying new content, and allow people to kick back and have fun with their friends to test out new skills, items and strategies. The question stands.

    Would also like to note that this would not force the devs to worry anymore about the game becomming an esport or the esports scene to run off with the game, just a way to kick back and have fun with friends while not hampering *anyone* else's gameplay experience. I'm asking for the negative side of the argument to be shown and so far, despite several "no" votes, I haven't seen a decent argument for not implementing a system like this down the road.

    It is true that this would take some resources (albeit not many) somewhere, sometime, but if that is the only argument then you might as well just say pvp should not be in the game at all because you're not willing to make any compromise whatsoever.
    The strong must rule if we are to survive.
  • #14
    Quote from Kodachii

    This solution would please more people than not, grow the in game economy and retail economy by keeping people who like to pvp around playing the game and buying new content, and allow people to kick back and have fun with their friends to test out new skills, items and strategies. The question stands.

    Would also like to note that this would not force the devs to worry anymore about the game becomming an esport or the esports scene to run off with the game, just a way to kick back and have fun with friends while not hampering *anyone* else's gameplay experience. I'm asking for the negative side of the argument to be shown and so far, despite several "no" votes, I haven't seen a decent argument for not implementing a system like this down the road.

    It is true that this would take some resources (albeit not many) somewhere, sometime, but if that is the only argument then you might as well just say pvp should not be in the game at all because you're not willing to make any compromise whatsoever.

    Honestly, Kodachii, the only reason I can see for people saying 'no' is that they don't want to give a reason for people to complain about adding it to Public as well. I myself don't really mind one way or another, but I could see a point made that by supporting non-Arena PvP in any form is creates an opening for arguing for more open PvP integration and many people just don't want that kind of thing. They want PvM to be focused on PvM and I could see how supporting non-Arena PvP in any form could potentially lead to issues down the road.

    It kind of reminds me of why Blizzard chose to outright state 'no eSport support'. They don't want to be put into a position where they are pressured to alter the design of their game because of eSport tournaments. I could see a parallel with non-Arena PvP. It would give people a foothold to complain that duels/hostility need to be added to public games as well.

    I know that you aren't trying to push public duels/hostility here, but I do kinda fear that would be the result if these features were implemented. Still though, I guess I just don't really care personally as long as it is kept to private games.
    Quote from GladHeHasBeta

    ecutruin +9000
  • #15
    Quote from ecutruin

    Quote from Kodachii

    This solution would please more people than not, grow the in game economy and retail economy by keeping people who like to pvp around playing the game and buying new content, and allow people to kick back and have fun with their friends to test out new skills, items and strategies. The question stands.

    Would also like to note that this would not force the devs to worry anymore about the game becomming an esport or the esports scene to run off with the game, just a way to kick back and have fun with friends while not hampering *anyone* else's gameplay experience. I'm asking for the negative side of the argument to be shown and so far, despite several "no" votes, I haven't seen a decent argument for not implementing a system like this down the road.

    It is true that this would take some resources (albeit not many) somewhere, sometime, but if that is the only argument then you might as well just say pvp should not be in the game at all because you're not willing to make any compromise whatsoever.

    Honestly, Kodachii, the only reason I can see for people saying 'no' is that they don't want to give a reason for people to complain about adding it to Public as well. I myself don't really mind one way or another, but I could see a point made that by supporting non-Arena PvP in any form is creates an opening for arguing for more open PvP integration and many people just don't want that kind of thing. They want PvM to be focused on PvM and I could see how supporting non-Arena PvP in any form could potentially lead to issues down the road.

    It kind of reminds me of why Blizzard chose to outright state 'no eSport support'. They don't want to be put into a position where they are pressured to alter the design of their game because of eSport tournaments. I could see a parallel with non-Arena PvP. It would give people a foothold to complain that duels/hostility need to be added to public games as well.

    I know that you aren't trying to push public duels/hostility here, but I do kinda fear that would be the result if these features were implemented. Still though, I guess I just don't really care personally as long as it is kept to private games.
    This has nothing to do with esports, nor does it give the impression of esports. It is quite the opposite, I guess Blizzard is so weak of a company that if people complain apparently they have to follow. Now I know this is not true because they didn't change the art design, and they still offer us little to no PvP. So please get off the whole "esports" thing because I have proven that theory false in every thread.
  • #16
    The problem with friend list only hostility is that tt doesn't eliminate the core problem of hostility. Non consensual PVP.. A griefer out to PK will attempt to befriend you first before turning hostile. Adding one extra step to the griefing process.

    Yes you can unfriend him and yes he can't do it more than once per account. But that's a lot of painful effort for people who want no part to do with it.

    From what I can see, Blizzard is trying hard to go the other extreme with D3 with regards to PVP as they did with D2. Back when, PVP was a free for all and any attempt to dissuade Blizzard was rejected. Was the game being targetted at the PVP crowd? Perhaps it was. Now the game is being targetted at the non PVP crowd with non consensual PVP being singled out as a deal breaker. Any system that will allow players to be PKed when they don't want to be will not be accepted.
  • #17
    Quote from Adon

    This has nothing to do with esports, nor does it give the impression of esports. It is quite the opposite, I guess Blizzard is so weak of a company that if people complain apparently they have to follow. Now I know this is not true because they didn't change the art design, and they still offer us little to no PvP. So please get off the whole "esports" thing because I have proven that theory false in every thread.

    Once again you failed to actually read my post or understand what I was saying. I wasn't saying this has to do with eSports. I was drawing a parallel between Blizzard's stance on eSports and people's stance on this. I was stating that giving people the impression that world PvP is ok for private games could lead to them expecting it in public as well. Creating a lot more negatives then the positive of being able to open PvP.


    Quote from Tsukishima

    The problem with friend list only hostility is that tt doesn't eliminate the core problem of hostility. Non consensual PVP.. A griefer out to PK will attempt to befriend you first before turning hostile. Adding one extra step to the griefing process.

    Yes you can unfriend him and yes he can't do it more than once per account. But that's a lot of painful effort for people who want no part to do with it.

    From what I can see, Blizzard is trying hard to go the other extreme with D3 with regards to PVP as they did with D2. Back when, PVP was a free for all and any attempt to dissuade Blizzard was rejected. Was the game being targetted at the PVP crowd? Perhaps it was. Now the game is being targetted at the non PVP crowd with non consensual PVP being singled out as a deal breaker. Any system that will allow players to be PKed when they don't want to be will not be accepted.

    I kinda agree there. It could create the exact situation you describe. In addition, that kind of situation would indeed be frustrating. Perhaps open PvP in general isn't worth the trouble for such a minor benefit.
    Quote from GladHeHasBeta

    ecutruin +9000
  • #18
    Such a minor benefit? Ha, to you and your select few buddies maybe.

    Also is it impossible for Blizzard to say no? Apparently not, not everything with PvP needs to be an "esport" feature and that pathetic excuse doesn't deserve to be brought up in every argument you make. Get off esports, it has nothing to do with anything we are talking about ha. No way in what we are asking for is going to get people to go "WOW THIS WOULD BE FANTASTIC AS AN ESPORT!!".
  • #19
    @Adon

    I encourage you to think of a PVP system with no non consensual PVP that has all the various modes that you like. I'm sure Blizzard would be most interested if you have a good idea. As they have no announced the PVP modes of D3 yet, they are more open to radical ideas so long as its fully consensual only.
  • #20
    To be honest it's instanced pvp that makes a game into an esport more than open world hostility/dueling (in private only games). I know this because like many of you I've been along for the entire wow/starcraft ride from day 1 and I've seen how the arena and addons ran off with wow and because starcraft 2 is a ranked game which requires only 1 player per team it quickly became a powerful esport.

    This suggestion is different. I don't like the whole mentality which states "we can't give the players something that *should* be in the game, just because it may give them the wrong idea and people will ask for more", to which the devs wouldn't even have to respond. I understand them not wanting d3 to be an esport, I agree with that notion, which is why I don't think the argument carries much weight seeing as how I agree in that d3 is at it's heart and sole a hack and slash (pvM) action rpg, and still want this change *because* it is only beneficial to the game in every single way imaginable.

    I guess some people (and others are afraid that some people) just can't draw a much needed line. I think this topic is where the line should be drawn, personally I'd be happy for life concerning the state of pvp in d3.
    The strong must rule if we are to survive.
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