I think threads about trading keep popping up because some unlucky people feel that they deserve more.And in some cases i can understand them.For example i have been playing since day one of RoS and i am yet to see a TnT.And the item i wanted most,Kridershot,i got it after couple hundred hours.
I think trading would be a disaster for this game however i do think a more complex,more grindy but at the same time more rewarding crafting system would add a lot to the game.
I totally feel the same way...
I am in the same boat. Played since RoS and have yet to see a TnT, more than 2 parts of jade doc set, a star metal dagger thingy or even a ramalandi's gift...
It's not that i feel entitlet to them, but it's frustrating that you just can't play certain builds because you are missing one key item that is ultra rare. I'd take a lvl 50 version of it or one with bad stats just to be able to try the build.
Now imagine me that I'm only able to play 3 or 4 hours on Friday night and other so on Saturday night. Some weeks i can't play at all... Some people have a real life and family...
I'm in the same boat as you and I still do not want trading in the game. The current system makes every drop exciting for me with the limited amount of time I can spend playing.
My only real question is.... if Trading is so horrible why can consoles do it? Is it the botting on PCs? But consoles have duping, so in theory once a duper gets the rare stuff, it can spread like a virus. The same type of marketplace could form with online sales that has been brought up for PCs. Seems like a little bit of a double standard to me. I'd say, either both gets it or none at all.
Exactly and people still sell ingame items for real $$. However, if this was on PC where its much more difficult to dupe it might work much better. I enjoyed trading in Diablo since I started playing in D2. It's sad they punish the legit players by removing trading because cheaters use real $$ to purchase items. Punishing the entire playerbase because of few people breaking the ToS is not a good way to implement changes.
Bring the trading back to Diablo! Ban the cheaters who break the ToS! Don't punish us all because of a select few!
I don't see any way to make trading work. Let's see if I can be clear...
Assumptions
Blizzard has a desired rate for obtaining upgrades.
Blizzard believes self-found needs to feel viable/rewarding
Blizzard wants to prevent third party involvement to protect their players
Blizzard will assume responsibility for any "economy" that forms
Based on those assumptions, the self found rate needs to be a variable we'll call F. Of course, F is based on 1 x Number of hours expected to find a "good" item.
If you then multiply F by X number of active players by H number of hours, then with trading, the rate for obtaining higher level gear gets destroyed. If you try to fix this, then the rate of drops needs to be reduced and as a result, F, the rate of self found gear bottoms out. I believe this self found problem, plus inflated gearing rates due to RMAH were the two biggest factors in the number of active players tanking during D3V. Both ends of the bell curve were so unhappy that the community was suffering and much of the middle was grumbling too.
In D2, I don't think Blizz anticipated D2JSP. As it was an external site, I don't think they knew what to do about it without facing potential lawsuits from players. Meanwhile, many of their players were being hurt by scammers. They did the best they knew how to adapt.
D3 comes along and this time they knew more of what to expect. However, I think they underestimated the effect exploits, poop-sockers, and just creative people would have on gearing rates. Suddenly, their carefully planned economy turned into a loot pinata and was more efficient than playing. Personally, I don't think there was ever a way to prevent that from happening. Resets become a legal no-no for the most part once people are paying real dollars in a Blizz sanctioned and controlled interface.
TL;DR The player-base is just more internet savvy than it was during D2 making any form of trading detrimental to self found players if Blizzard is going to control gearing rates and an "economy" that develops from that.
I don't see any way to make trading work. Let's see if I can be clear...
Assumptions
Blizzard has a desired rate for obtaining upgrades.
Blizzard believes self-found needs to feel viable/rewarding
Blizzard wants to prevent third party involvement to protect their players
Blizzard will assume responsibility for any "economy" that forms
Based on those assumptions, the self found rate needs to be a variable we'll call F. Of course, F is based on 1 x Number of hours expected to find a "good" item.
If you then multiply F by X number of active players by H number of hours, then with trading, the rate for obtaining higher level gear gets destroyed. If you try to fix this, then the rate of drops needs to be reduced and as a result, F, the rate of self found gear bottoms out. I believe this self found problem, plus inflated gearing rates due to RMAH were the two biggest factors in the number of active players tanking during D3V. Both ends of the bell curve were so unhappy that the community was suffering and much of the middle was grumbling too.
In D2, I don't think Blizz anticipated D2JSP. As it was an external site, I don't think they knew what to do about it without facing potential lawsuits from players. Meanwhile, many of their players were being hurt by scammers. They did the best they knew how to adapt.
D3 comes along and this time they knew more of what to expect. However, I think they underestimated the effect exploits, poop-sockers, and just creative people would have on gearing rates. Suddenly, their carefully planned economy turned into a loot pinata and was more efficient than playing. Personally, I don't think there was ever a way to prevent that from happening. Resets become a legal no-no for the most part once people are paying real dollars in a Blizz sanctioned and controlled interface.
TL;DR The player-base is just more internet savvy than it was during D2 making any form of trading detrimental to self found players if Blizzard is going to control gearing rates and an "economy" that develops from that.
OR
leave drop rates as they are. Allow trading. (which I always said since i first heared of smart loot...)
If people gear up too quickly, they spoil their own fun. Maybe it will teach them a little self control. Maybe they will start new in the next ladder season. maybe they will give away everything and only play selffound. (I did a combination of the 2 in D2, gave everything away after each ladder reset) We would only lose the spoiled brats, which would make a better game and a better community.
I don't see any way to make trading work. Let's see if I can be clear...
Assumptions
Blizzard has a desired rate for obtaining upgrades.
Blizzard believes self-found needs to feel viable/rewarding
Blizzard wants to prevent third party involvement to protect their players
Blizzard will assume responsibility for any "economy" that forms
Based on those assumptions, the self found rate needs to be a variable we'll call F. Of course, F is based on 1 x Number of hours expected to find a "good" item.
If you then multiply F by X number of active players by H number of hours, then with trading, the rate for obtaining higher level gear gets destroyed. If you try to fix this, then the rate of drops needs to be reduced and as a result, F, the rate of self found gear bottoms out. I believe this self found problem, plus inflated gearing rates due to RMAH were the two biggest factors in the number of active players tanking during D3V. Both ends of the bell curve were so unhappy that the community was suffering and much of the middle was grumbling too.
In D2, I don't think Blizz anticipated D2JSP. As it was an external site, I don't think they knew what to do about it without facing potential lawsuits from players. Meanwhile, many of their players were being hurt by scammers. They did the best they knew how to adapt.
D3 comes along and this time they knew more of what to expect. However, I think they underestimated the effect exploits, poop-sockers, and just creative people would have on gearing rates. Suddenly, their carefully planned economy turned into a loot pinata and was more efficient than playing. Personally, I don't think there was ever a way to prevent that from happening. Resets become a legal no-no for the most part once people are paying real dollars in a Blizz sanctioned and controlled interface.
TL;DR The player-base is just more internet savvy than it was during D2 making any form of trading detrimental to self found players if Blizzard is going to control gearing rates and an "economy" that develops from that.
there was literally no point in you using F, H, and X. you labeled them then did nothing with them! that is frustrating to my ocd high school math side.
otherwise, what you say about ah and self found and stuff is true, but blizzard could have instead increased drop rate and introduced smart loot (BUT not to the loot extravaganza extreme we have now). even though blizzard doesnt do middle ground (buffing and nerfing to the extremes, eliminating ah instead of fixing economy), it wouldve done wonders. if the rares we all used rolled the correct (useful) stats, we wouldnt have NEEDED ah to get remotely acceptable gear. instead, they eliminated ah then introduced smart loot with account bound everything.
imagine a world with smart loot and lower (but not abysmal) drop rates WITH ah! all of a sudden the near perfect akkhan pieces i find can magically (ah is magic) turn into something i need someday! all those stories of people finding 5 billion furnaces at plvl 10? theyre either gonna salvage all but 1-2 of them or keep them in stash because theyre rare. now just ONE of those super rare furnaces can turn into an entire alt's worth of gear for them. ive salvaged so many rimehearts (even pre gimp), because ill never ever use them. i still have like 2 in stash just because theyre rare. i wish i couldve traded those rimehearts to ppl who want to try it out for something less rare, like a holy soj for my sader.
obviously this is all dependent on blizzard actually giving a shit about botters and other cheaters. but alas we all know botters dont get banned because blizzard doesnt care.
If people gear up too quickly, they spoil their own fun. Maybe it will teach them a little self control. Maybe they will start new in the next ladder season. maybe they will give away everything and only play selffound. (I did a combination of the 2 in D2, gave everything away after each ladder reset) We would only lose the spoiled brats, which would make a better game and a better community.
But it won't. They just get bored and leave the game and qq about nothing to do on battlenet. For every one player like you, there are 10-20 entitled whiners who will gladly take every shortcut and it's someone else's fault if they aren't having fun.
there was literally no point in you using F, H, and X. you labeled them then did nothing with them! that is frustrating to my ocd high school math side.
Lol, sorry about that. I originally was planning to lay it out equation style then realized that was just making it more complicated, rather than less. I left those in just because it made it easier to reference what I was talking about. Typing "F" is easier than "self found rates" repeatedly.
otherwise, what you say about ah and self found and stuff is true, but blizzard could have instead increased drop rate and introduced smart loot (BUT not to the loot extravaganza extreme we have now). even though blizzard doesnt do middle ground (buffing and nerfing to the extremes, eliminating ah instead of fixing economy), it wouldve done wonders. if the rares we all used rolled the correct (useful) stats, we wouldnt have NEEDED ah to get remotely acceptable gear. instead, they eliminated ah then introduced smart loot with account bound everything.
imagine a world with smart loot and lower (but not abysmal) drop rates WITH ah! all of a sudden the near perfect akkhan pieces i find can magically (ah is magic) turn into something i need someday! all those stories of people finding 5 billion furnaces at plvl 10? theyre either gonna salvage all but 1-2 of them or keep them in stash because theyre rare. now just ONE of those super rare furnaces can turn into an entire alt's worth of gear for them. ive salvaged so many rimehearts (even pre gimp), because ill never ever use them. i still have like 2 in stash just because theyre rare. i wish i couldve traded those rimehearts to ppl who want to try it out for something less rare, like a holy soj for my sader.
obviously this is all dependent on blizzard actually giving a shit about botters and other cheaters. but alas we all know botters dont get banned because blizzard doesnt care.
Making those Rimehearts useful to someone else just means that the gear level of the player-base as a whole goes up significantly. Blizzard then has to either:
1. Accept the game as easier than it currently is
2. Drop self found rates again...potentially hurting those who play much less often or less efficiently or are unlucky and either don't trade or don't find whatever becomes the currency
I have been a life long Diablo player and I miss the days of trading and the social dynamic it added. Bartering for a item is half the fun and getting good deals. I understand why they got rid of the auction house and massive player trading. It has its pros and cons, but only only a few hours of trading after a legendary drops, sucks. It takes away a big part of the game to me.
So I think to find a middle ground and to add depth to the clans (there is almost zero depth at this point or reason to even belong to a clan, again weak social dynamics in the game) we could offer clan only trading. Allow members who belong to the same clan to freely trade between each other. Also they should have a chest that appears in town next to yours that is for your clan specifically. Any items clan members do not want and wish to donate to the clan can be put in there. Once put in there it belongs to the clan and will be moderated by assigned clan officers once items are deposited.
To prevent people from abusing the system you just easily implement a rule that once you join a clan you cannot leave it for 30 days. This would prevent the loop hole of people joining just to trade items and leaving.
What do you think Blizzard?
But this would force me into sitting in a clan only to be able to trade, while i don't like clans at all and whole idea of clans in a game like Diablo (at the same time i understand why it was introduced and is even still being developed, wasting Blizz time).
For more "social dynamics" i'd suggest going some MMO.
2. Drop self found rates again...potentially hurting those who play much less often or less efficiently or are unlucky and either don't trade or don't find whatever becomes the currency
yes i think they should drop item drop rate, but keep smart loot. so youll find fewer items, but they still might be useful (like no finding str items on a wiz). and with an ah, those "useful" items, though maybe not useful for yourself, still have value and you can trade for an item you really want with gold as an intermediate. people hated ah because it was the ONLY way to get good gear because item drops were horrible. it shouldve been a supplemental way to get good gear and a safe place to trade/sell.
instead, now we have zero trading/selling with inflated drop rates on most items, but not the ones players actually need (woh, furnace, krider, etc). people who play less frequently would still find a few set pieces that arent trash, maybe a unity here and an soj there. a few set pieces they dont need. then they can collect those pieces and eventually trade/sell for a not so well-rolled furnace. or maybe they can get marauder pieces for akkhan pieces instead of grinding with the sader and gambling on the dh.
Well judging by the comments people only have the ability to analyze what I am saying in a superficial manner, instead of being objective. A few of you get what I am saying though.
The main focus I was speaking of is the social dynamic and the lack of depth. What is the end state of the game? Currently even though I do find it entertaining to escape my reality for a while and kill monsters mindlessly, it lacks DEPTH. You kill monsters to get better loot, just to kill more monsters the next go around at a expedited rate. Without PvP and the social dynamics integrated along with trading this game has lost allot of what made it special. I saw some of you making comments about me being lazy or wanting to get items without "working for them". Lets make something very clear grinding to get items does not make you a elite player or skilled. It just means you put in 500 more hours increasing your statistical probability you will get a better leg one run, that takes almost no skill and offer no challenge. How is that a challenge or rewarding? The answer is, it is not. Like I said it is a matter of adding depth and putting a element back into Diablo that was always there until Diablo 3. Some of my fondness memories have been sitting it town trying to strike a good deal and the excitement of scoring a good deal. Remember in order to trade for a good item, you had to of found good loot yourself. The trading alone adds allot of interpersonal communication within the game that now does not really exist. I have played tons of runs in the game where people don't even talk, it feels like we are mindless drones rushing to just complete more runs to get more gear so we can add 10K more DPS to kill monsters faster the next run. What happened to the days of being a Amazon and going out of town and blasting arrows at charging paladins? The excitement of trading your way through good deals and getting that perfect weapon to show case against other players and the satisfaction of talking trash. Now that is fun!
im saying ah was the epitome of trading and worked better than a clan based method would. it just came at a time when drop rates forced people to ah, and they didnt like that; it was a scapegoat for other bad ideas and implementations. granted, this wouldnt cover your "social aspect," but i for one did not enjoy sitting in trade channels typing DUAL LEECH RING for 2382038203820382203 SOJS!
i agree some people enjoy the social aspect, so i said i personally didnt enjoy it. maybe i would, but d2's korean scammers made negotiations difficult. im ok with clan trading, but there would be a lot of problems as other people suggested. i think someone else mentioned something about only being able to trade items of comparable value. that could work, but then blizz would need some algorithm to determine item value including rolls which is too much to ask for.
im just bitter they took down ah because 1. it was a promised feature of the game and 2. it was a scapegoat for other problems (like piss poor drop rate combined with impossible inferno difficulty). i also thoroughly enjoyed it as it truly was a different game on its own, so its like i got 2 games for the price of one! i liked rmah because i made good money off of it, but i can see why people dont like being able to pay to win (honestly i enjoyed making money off suckers who are stupid/lame enough to throw real money to get the lame digital items i found or flipped).
as to social aspect, better pvp, difficult, temporary, and rewarding challenges (like holiday themed raids or something), and more than 4 ppl in a game would go a LONG way
Those few people that are still playing are obviously pro BoA. People are getting called troll for wanting to trade in an arpg...i think we reached a new low, lol. dont forget... 99,9% left the game long ago...so thats why it seems like almost everyone loves BoA and loves the game how it is if you read in the diablo forums (most of them probably wow players..maybe a couple of d2 players that hated trading)...
50% of all internet facts are 100% true.
Insulting everyone that plays d3 isn't going to get your piece of shit facts across as accurate.
Just wait 2 more years. We might get a refreshed game from one of the top video game companies of all time.
I'm not gonna lie, and I will be trolled and most likely banned and cursed at, but man I just can't believe this company did this to Diablo.
This game will never be what we all thought it would be at release. It's a shame. I still play now and then, but my lord all mighty. Multi Billion corporation can't even do trading right in a video game. I guess in 2015, we don't need any type of social activity in a video game anymore. Diablo 2 in the 90s was 10x more social than D3 in 2015.
They kill Cain, they make Diablo into a girl, the list goes on where they did this game wrong. No trading. No PvP (sorry, Brawling is what a cheap company could come up with, not a Multi Billion Corporation). It's just not epic. Blizzard once use to be THE company who made game changing video games.
Yes, you all hate me. It's ok. It just painful man. It really is. Now time to get flamed
You said "all" people that enjoy BoA are WoW players. I am not. Never played WoW, not for one minute. The tone, it's important. The way you use WoW as a way of dumbing down the opinions of others.
I think of trading as part of endgame, I was a trading fool in D2, loved it.
But I also appreciate the fun and pride that BoA brings the player. As well, I don't miss all the trash and noise created by the ravenous 3rd party trade.
I'm impartial. If they brought trading back, I'd be fine with it, though a bit disappointed that I have to delete 50 friend requests every day from D3scamshop.com.
This game will never be what we all thought it would be at release. It's a shame.
Though I think D3 has become a great ARPG in it's own right, you're absolutely correct. 100% inarguably, Diablo 3 will never be what many/most of us had envisioned so many years ago.
I remember damn near trembling when they first announced D3 was officially in development, because I honestly thought they would never do it. But I had no idea they would vary so wildly from D2's formula.
They had a clearly defined starting point with D2, a clear path to continue down. But egos got in the way, and they chose to take their own path. The result was about 2 years of scrambling to figure out how to fix the hot mess that was D3 Vanilla. But....the path they chose will never truly merge with the path they could've chosen, the one provided by D2.
I am in the same boat. Played since RoS and have yet to see a TnT, more than 2 parts of jade doc set, a star metal dagger thingy or even a ramalandi's gift...
It's not that i feel entitlet to them, but it's frustrating that you just can't play certain builds because you are missing one key item that is ultra rare. I'd take a lvl 50 version of it or one with bad stats just to be able to try the build.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
Bring the trading back to Diablo! Ban the cheaters who break the ToS! Don't punish us all because of a select few!
What's going on in this thread is called a discussion. It's where people communicate and share idea's and debate them.
Assumptions
Blizzard has a desired rate for obtaining upgrades.
Blizzard believes self-found needs to feel viable/rewarding
Blizzard wants to prevent third party involvement to protect their players
Blizzard will assume responsibility for any "economy" that forms
Based on those assumptions, the self found rate needs to be a variable we'll call F. Of course, F is based on 1 x Number of hours expected to find a "good" item.
If you then multiply F by X number of active players by H number of hours, then with trading, the rate for obtaining higher level gear gets destroyed. If you try to fix this, then the rate of drops needs to be reduced and as a result, F, the rate of self found gear bottoms out. I believe this self found problem, plus inflated gearing rates due to RMAH were the two biggest factors in the number of active players tanking during D3V. Both ends of the bell curve were so unhappy that the community was suffering and much of the middle was grumbling too.
In D2, I don't think Blizz anticipated D2JSP. As it was an external site, I don't think they knew what to do about it without facing potential lawsuits from players. Meanwhile, many of their players were being hurt by scammers. They did the best they knew how to adapt.
D3 comes along and this time they knew more of what to expect. However, I think they underestimated the effect exploits, poop-sockers, and just creative people would have on gearing rates. Suddenly, their carefully planned economy turned into a loot pinata and was more efficient than playing. Personally, I don't think there was ever a way to prevent that from happening. Resets become a legal no-no for the most part once people are paying real dollars in a Blizz sanctioned and controlled interface.
TL;DR The player-base is just more internet savvy than it was during D2 making any form of trading detrimental to self found players if Blizzard is going to control gearing rates and an "economy" that develops from that.
leave drop rates as they are. Allow trading. (which I always said since i first heared of smart loot...)
If people gear up too quickly, they spoil their own fun. Maybe it will teach them a little self control. Maybe they will start new in the next ladder season. maybe they will give away everything and only play selffound. (I did a combination of the 2 in D2, gave everything away after each ladder reset) We would only lose the spoiled brats, which would make a better game and a better community.
http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/profile/Twoflower-2131/hero/47336841
otherwise, what you say about ah and self found and stuff is true, but blizzard could have instead increased drop rate and introduced smart loot (BUT not to the loot extravaganza extreme we have now). even though blizzard doesnt do middle ground (buffing and nerfing to the extremes, eliminating ah instead of fixing economy), it wouldve done wonders. if the rares we all used rolled the correct (useful) stats, we wouldnt have NEEDED ah to get remotely acceptable gear. instead, they eliminated ah then introduced smart loot with account bound everything.
imagine a world with smart loot and lower (but not abysmal) drop rates WITH ah! all of a sudden the near perfect akkhan pieces i find can magically (ah is magic) turn into something i need someday! all those stories of people finding 5 billion furnaces at plvl 10? theyre either gonna salvage all but 1-2 of them or keep them in stash because theyre rare. now just ONE of those super rare furnaces can turn into an entire alt's worth of gear for them. ive salvaged so many rimehearts (even pre gimp), because ill never ever use them. i still have like 2 in stash just because theyre rare. i wish i couldve traded those rimehearts to ppl who want to try it out for something less rare, like a holy soj for my sader.
obviously this is all dependent on blizzard actually giving a shit about botters and other cheaters. but alas we all know botters dont get banned because blizzard doesnt care.
But it won't. They just get bored and leave the game and qq about nothing to do on battlenet. For every one player like you, there are 10-20 entitled whiners who will gladly take every shortcut and it's someone else's fault if they aren't having fun.
Lol, sorry about that. I originally was planning to lay it out equation style then realized that was just making it more complicated, rather than less. I left those in just because it made it easier to reference what I was talking about. Typing "F" is easier than "self found rates" repeatedly.
Making those Rimehearts useful to someone else just means that the gear level of the player-base as a whole goes up significantly. Blizzard then has to either:
1. Accept the game as easier than it currently is
2. Drop self found rates again...potentially hurting those who play much less often or less efficiently or are unlucky and either don't trade or don't find whatever becomes the currency
For more "social dynamics" i'd suggest going some MMO.
instead, now we have zero trading/selling with inflated drop rates on most items, but not the ones players actually need (woh, furnace, krider, etc). people who play less frequently would still find a few set pieces that arent trash, maybe a unity here and an soj there. a few set pieces they dont need. then they can collect those pieces and eventually trade/sell for a not so well-rolled furnace. or maybe they can get marauder pieces for akkhan pieces instead of grinding with the sader and gambling on the dh.
im just bitter they took down ah because 1. it was a promised feature of the game and 2. it was a scapegoat for other problems (like piss poor drop rate combined with impossible inferno difficulty). i also thoroughly enjoyed it as it truly was a different game on its own, so its like i got 2 games for the price of one! i liked rmah because i made good money off of it, but i can see why people dont like being able to pay to win (honestly i enjoyed making money off suckers who are stupid/lame enough to throw real money to get the lame digital items i found or flipped).
as to social aspect, better pvp, difficult, temporary, and rewarding challenges (like holiday themed raids or something), and more than 4 ppl in a game would go a LONG way
Insulting everyone that plays d3 isn't going to get your piece of shit facts across as accurate.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
I'm not gonna lie, and I will be trolled and most likely banned and cursed at, but man I just can't believe this company did this to Diablo.
This game will never be what we all thought it would be at release. It's a shame. I still play now and then, but my lord all mighty. Multi Billion corporation can't even do trading right in a video game. I guess in 2015, we don't need any type of social activity in a video game anymore. Diablo 2 in the 90s was 10x more social than D3 in 2015.
They kill Cain, they make Diablo into a girl, the list goes on where they did this game wrong. No trading. No PvP (sorry, Brawling is what a cheap company could come up with, not a Multi Billion Corporation). It's just not epic. Blizzard once use to be THE company who made game changing video games.
Yes, you all hate me. It's ok. It just painful man. It really is. Now time to get flamed
I think of trading as part of endgame, I was a trading fool in D2, loved it.
But I also appreciate the fun and pride that BoA brings the player. As well, I don't miss all the trash and noise created by the ravenous 3rd party trade.
I'm impartial. If they brought trading back, I'd be fine with it, though a bit disappointed that I have to delete 50 friend requests every day from D3scamshop.com.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan
I remember damn near trembling when they first announced D3 was officially in development, because I honestly thought they would never do it. But I had no idea they would vary so wildly from D2's formula.
They had a clearly defined starting point with D2, a clear path to continue down. But egos got in the way, and they chose to take their own path. The result was about 2 years of scrambling to figure out how to fix the hot mess that was D3 Vanilla. But....the path they chose will never truly merge with the path they could've chosen, the one provided by D2.
BurningRope#1322 (US~HC) Request an invite to the official (NA) <dfans> Clan